101 réponses à ce sujet

[Grommash94]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

@BioWare Apologists requesting that we 'give the game a chance'--I would ask, how? Should we just go ahead and purchase the game only to be disappointed with it? On the other hand, if the released information has already disappointed some people by changing their favorite aspects of DAO, they do have the right to voice their disappointment.

@Original Poster: Have you ever played any Obsidian games? Certain Obsidian innovations happen to find themselves in BioWare games from time to time. Such as high approval giving mechanical bonuses. Then being able to view what your approval was on a numerical scale. Oh, and let's not forget the 'mood' addition to the conversational wheel. Granted, these are merely natural progressions, but since Obsidian tends to do it first, it's not adequate to say that BioWare is *always* two steps ahead.

As I've said before, part of Origins' original marketing campaign (pre-EA, I might add) was that it was supposed to be very traditional, and it was. And it sold really well. Now, I'm sure EA's marketing department would like to take all the credit with their bait and switch This Is The New **** campaign, but over three million copies aren't sold by cheap tactics. There is a market for traditional games. Now, it seems, that BioWare is completely abandoning its roots with a sequel coming out, what, eighteen months after the original? That seems to have more in common with ME2 than Baldur's Gate.

To me, it seems, the problem is that there really is no competition in RPGs anymore, CRPGs, anyway. The only competition BioWare really has anymore is Obsidian, and that company gets screwed by the publisher so often that it's not even funny. When publishers think RPGs, they only see MMOs and dollar signs, and immediately want a piece of Jerkass Blizzard's WoW cake. But the cake is a lie.

So, in essence, BioWare can get aware with recycling the same things over and over. No one's going to call them out over it, either, because you either have what they feed you or you starve.

No one is saying the bolded part. All the so called 'BioWare apologists' are saying is that you hold on, just a bit, until BioWare reveals more facts about the game, before you jump to conclusions and say that "BioWare is abandoning their previous works." or are 'streamlining the game'. Based on a few features that they have revealed, one cannot possibly say this is like Mass Effect not such and such a game.

Everyone is allowed to express their disappointment, sure. I myself am disappointed with some of the features. But I am giving them a chance. If you really don't like it, then talk with your wallet; don't buy the game. If DA2 doesn't garner much revenue, then BioWare will have to return to its 'roots' as you put it. Although I really don't see how they are abandoning it.

Saying "BioWare is completely abandoning its roots with a sequel coming out" is just a bit much, imo.

Modifié par Grommash94, 17 juillet 2010 - 08:17 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

@BioWare Apologists requesting that we 'give the game a chance'--I would ask, how? Should we just go ahead and purchase the game only to be disappointed with it? On the other hand, if the released information has already disappointed some people by changing their favorite aspects of DAO, they do have the right to voice their disappointment.

Oh! Can I call you a BioWare Pro-Choicer, then? 

[Fishy]

I simply don"t want my character to start talking if i did not allow him to talk.

[errant_knight]

Lilacs wrote...

Bioware writer (s) please keeps this in mind regarding women in DA II: "Spartan women enjoyed considerably more rights and equality to men than elsewhere in the classical world."

Did they? I didn't know that.

[Heimdall]

errant_knight wrote...

Lilacs wrote...

Bioware writer (s) please keeps this in mind regarding women in DA II: "Spartan women enjoyed considerably more rights and equality to men than elsewhere in the classical world."

Did they? I didn't know that.

Well they were allowed to partipate in sports (Female only events and unlike the men they had to wear clothing)  Though this was just because the spartans believed a physically stronger woman would produce a stronger son and thus they'd have stronger soldiers

[errant_knight]

Interesting! Thanks to both of you. Really, any rights is better than how the Greeks treated women....

[Hollingdale]

Bah this is just the usual fan dogmatism crap where anything that deviates from the classic wrpg formula is automatically bad.

I honestly wish you guys would just stop judging a game on the premises of what you wanted it to be rather than what it actually is so that we could have some interesting discussions rather then the whiny pointless bull**** that theese boards are filled with.

Youre like that annoying old guy who can't stand change and who goes to the same baker everyday and asks for cinnamon buns and then gets pissed when one day the baker's making vanilla buns instead because everyone but the old guy was getting sick of just having cinnamon.

Of course being the annoying old guy you'll just say that everyone else have no taste and should be ignored so that your own desires may be fullfilled. You'll also ignore the bakers attempts to persuade you into actually trying the vanilla buns or you will try them but only so that you can say they taste like **** afterwards because you've decided beforehand that they do.

And btw, innovation is good in itself.

Modifié par Hollingdale, 18 juillet 2010 - 01:20 .

[Heimdall]

Hollingdale wrote...

Bah this is just the usual fan dogmatism crap where anything that deviates from the classic wrpg formula is automatically bad.

I honestly wish you guys would just stop judging a game on the premises of what you wanted it to be rather than what it actually is so that we could have some interesting discussions rather then the whiny pointless bull**** that theese boards are filled with.

Youre like that annoying old guy who can't stand change and who goes to the same baker everyday and asks for cinnamon buns and then gets pissed when one day the baker's making vanilla buns instead because everyone but the old guy was getting sick of just having cinnamon.

Of course being the annoying old guy you'll just say that everyone else have no taste and should be ignored so that your own desires may be fullfilled. You'll also ignore the bakers attempts to persuade you into actually trying the vanilla buns or you will try them but only so that you can say they taste like **** afterwards because you've decided beforehand that they do.

And btw, innovation is good in itself.

As much as I do agree with some of what you said.  Your hostility will not in any way shape or form drive them away.  It draws them in like the cry of a lamb to wolves.

[Kalfear]

Lilacs wrote...

@ errant_knight   


Yes, absolutely!

300 said so!

Didint you see 300
Shesh Errant, where you been
LOL

Didnt know about the sport thing but I do know women were property and lesser then men.
There was no mystical equality

LOL can you just imagine a game with historical correctness? 
I can get the protests already

Modifié par Kalfear, 18 juillet 2010 - 01:29 .

[christrek1982]

I din't get it why is evryone so down on haveing to play Human or haveing a vo so long as there are elves and dworf in the party and they are done well then whats the problem. I felt that playing as an elf in DAO was more about the way elves where thaught of. As a gray worden ther was no way i could change the lot of the poor elves but maybe in DA2 a human can chapion the elves and fight for the freedom of the elven people as or just help them though his or her quest for power.

[Hollingdale]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

Bah this is just the usual fan dogmatism crap where anything that deviates from the classic wrpg formula is automatically bad.

I honestly wish you guys would just stop judging a game on the premises of what you wanted it to be rather than what it actually is so that we could have some interesting discussions rather then the whiny pointless bull**** that theese boards are filled with.

Youre like that annoying old guy who can't stand change and who goes to the same baker everyday and asks for cinnamon buns and then gets pissed when one day the baker's making vanilla buns instead because everyone but the old guy was getting sick of just having cinnamon.

Of course being the annoying old guy you'll just say that everyone else have no taste and should be ignored so that your own desires may be fullfilled. You'll also ignore the bakers attempts to persuade you into actually trying the vanilla buns or you will try them but only so that you can say they taste like **** afterwards because you've decided beforehand that they do.

And btw, innovation is good in itself.

As much as I do agree with some of what you said.  Your hostility will not in any way shape or form drive them away.  It draws them in like the cry of a lamb to wolves.

Well I wouldn't change anything by writing this nicely either so I may aswell write it genuinely (because that's more satisfying) which, I'm afraid, means writing it in a somewhat bitter and despising tone.

Besides I've posted basically the same stuff many times before regarding the missfired critique aimed at ME2 (which is very much the same as that which we can see in this section) so unfortunately I've little missconceptions regarding what type of response my posts will yield (last time I was called many things) and as such I feel no obligation to be nice in return. You may think it's contraproductive but I doubt so as I believe only time can cure the despicable conservatism that's all over theese forums.

[Gaxhung]

To guess the decision making process, its not hard to see why they chose the dialog wheel. When you have a main hero character, presentation wise, having VO for him fleshes out his character and gives him a larger presence. And when you have full VO, then it doesn't make sense for the player to first read the full character responses, select a response, then have the VO repeat exactly what you just chose.

[Kalfear]

Lilacs wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Didnt know about the sport thing but I do know women were property and lesser then men.
There was no mystical equality

LOL can you just imagine a game with historical correctness? 
I can get the protests already

Well, yes, women might have been considered as such in the Western world (in part in the Greco/Roman world), but in the ancient world... Read your history... Ancient Egyptian women, Women in Sparta, Artemisia, Shappo, amongst other, and women of the eastern world as rulers and the likes

Let us remain on tract and on the topic: DA II.

ROFL, one royal born women doesnt make equality for all women!
Yes the nobility were granted special status but a female noble was less then a male noble and a female peasent was less then a male peasent!

Read your own history, Im fully aware what im talking about!

[errant_knight]

Loria232 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Lilacs wrote...

Bioware writer (s) please keeps this in mind regarding women in DA II: "Spartan women enjoyed considerably more rights and equality to men than elsewhere in the classical world."

Did they? I didn't know that.

there you go
http://www.mnsu.edu/...enofsparta.html

Whoa!! What a peculiar combination of good and utterly horrifying.... Wow.

[errant_knight]

Lilacs wrote...

I can cite regular women roles in other societies of rthe ancient world (Aboriginal women and their status over men), but his thread is about DA II.

Let us remain on topic here, which is DA II.  Thanks.

Sorry, back to the topic we go. Thanks for all the info, though, guys!

[errant_knight]

christrek1982 wrote...

I din't get it why is evryone so down on haveing to play Human or haveing a vo so long as there are elves and dworf in the party and they are done well then whats the problem. I felt that playing as an elf in DAO was more about the way elves where thaught of. As a gray worden ther was no way i could change the lot of the poor elves but maybe in DA2 a human can chapion the elves and fight for the freedom of the elven people as or just help them though his or her quest for power.

You've got two very different topics going here. The human thing, I can live with, but then I almost always play human--there are many others that don't, and this decreases their enjoyment. The VO thing is a lot more serious for me and we've spoken about it extensively, here in this thread and in many others. Many of us find playing in the third person to be distancing from the character, and it decreases our immersion and enjoyment of the game. We no longer feel that we are the character, more that we are moving an outside character around. It's a huge issue for people that enjoy traditional RPGs and roleplaying.

Modifié par errant_knight, 18 juillet 2010 - 03:52 .

[Cazic of LFD]

Hollingdale wrote...

Bah this is just the usual fan dogmatism crap where anything that deviates from the classic wrpg formula is automatically bad.

I honestly wish you guys would just stop judging a game on the premises of what you wanted it to be rather than what it actually is so that we could have some interesting discussions rather then the whiny pointless bull**** that theese boards are filled with.

Youre like that annoying old guy who can't stand change and who goes to the same baker everyday and asks for cinnamon buns and then gets pissed when one day the baker's making vanilla buns instead because everyone but the old guy was getting sick of just having cinnamon.

Of course being the annoying old guy you'll just say that everyone else have no taste and should be ignored so that your own desires may be fullfilled. You'll also ignore the bakers attempts to persuade you into actually trying the vanilla buns or you will try them but only so that you can say they taste like **** afterwards because you've decided beforehand that they do.

And btw, innovation is good in itself.

OMG, HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY VOICE THEIR OPINION ON THE INTERWEBZ!!!!1111!!1

Seriously, if you don't like what people have to say, or in this case their criticisms(which i believe are quite valid) then don't read it, no one is forcing you to.

Also, innovation is defined as, vaguely, the introduction of something new. Explain to me how the conversation wheel is new? Its not, its been around in other games and it does have its short comings but it worked fine in those games. Dragon Age is not those games. Homogenizing your products is also not innovating. All they are doing are copying some flashy and simple mechanics so it can appeal to the ADHD crowd more easily. Nothing innovating about that.

Back to the topic at hand, yes i think DA2 will suffer due to these changes. Its obvious they are dumbing down the content so it will sell more. Will it suffer enough for them to get what we traditional rpg'ers want? I doubt it.