34 réponses à ce sujet

[CosmicTourist]

Terror_K wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

CosmicTourist wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Oh, my bad. Disregard.

I actually hope he does though... just so my Shepard can kill him herself.

And yes... I mean my Paragon one. The one who avoids killing in most cases and tries to save lives. TIM is an exception, because more lives will be saved with him dead.

Yeah, like all those lives that would have been saved if the Illusive Man had been dead and hadn't saved Shepard and given him near limitless resources to defeat the Collectors. Oh wait....

one good deed doesn't outweigh a lifetime of skullduggery.

Yeah. It was more like TIM resurrected Shepard so that he could have the greatest human hero of his time as his personal lapdog than anything noble. Shepard should be getting the credit for what he/she did after TIM brought him back, not TIM.

One good deed... I thought saving the galaxy might be a little more significant than just a "good deed". And if TIM motives were really so selfish, why didn't he plant the control chip in Shepard's brain? Secondly, what do his motives matter? It's actions that are important, and his actions saved the galaxy. He's done, or allowed, some terrible things, yes, but he's also been instrumental in saving galactic civilization.

I honestly don't understand the intense hatred of TIM. He's  a great character, much more interesting than the Alliance and Council reps, and I wouldn't want him dead just for that. I suppose from  a RP perspective, it might be because he's more powerful than Shepard, and that makes people angry because they all think their Shepards are gods and don't like their agency being limited. Same reason there was anger at Aria's 'don't f*ck with me' line.

[Jebel Krong]

CosmicTourist wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

CosmicTourist wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Oh, my bad. Disregard.

I actually hope he does though... just so my Shepard can kill him herself.

And yes... I mean my Paragon one. The one who avoids killing in most cases and tries to save lives. TIM is an exception, because more lives will be saved with him dead.

Yeah, like all those lives that would have been saved if the Illusive Man had been dead and hadn't saved Shepard and given him near limitless resources to defeat the Collectors. Oh wait....

one good deed doesn't outweigh a lifetime of skullduggery.

Yeah. It was more like TIM resurrected Shepard so that he could have the greatest human hero of his time as his personal lapdog than anything noble. Shepard should be getting the credit for what he/she did after TIM brought him back, not TIM.

One good deed... I thought saving the galaxy might be a little more significant than just a "good deed". And if TIM motives were really so selfish, why didn't he plant the control chip in Shepard's brain? Secondly, what do his motives matter? It's actions that are important, and his actions saved the galaxy. He's done, or allowed, some terrible things, yes, but he's also been instrumental in saving galactic civilization.

I honestly don't understand the intense hatred of TIM. He's  a great character, much more interesting than the Alliance and Council reps, and I wouldn't want him dead just for that. I suppose from  a RP perspective, it might be because he's more powerful than Shepard, and that makes people angry because they all think their Shepards are gods and don't like their agency being limited. Same reason there was anger at Aria's 'don't f*ck with me' line.

TIM didn't save the galaxy - shepard did. i don't necc. want him dead (interesting characters are sometimes much better left alive), but he had only very indirect involvement in saving the galaxy, and even then when it coincided with his (& cerberus') interests.

[CosmicTourist]

Jebel Krong wrote...

TIM didn't save the galaxy - shepard did. i don't necc. want him dead (interesting characters are sometimes much better left alive), but he had only very indirect involvement in saving the galaxy, and even then when it coincided with his (& cerberus') interests.

Let me ask you a question; would the Collector's have been defeated without TIM? The answer is no. Just because he wasn't on the front lines doesn't mean he wasn't an essential part of it.

[Jebel Krong]

CosmicTourist wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

TIM didn't save the galaxy - shepard did. i don't necc. want him dead (interesting characters are sometimes much better left alive), but he had only very indirect involvement in saving the galaxy, and even then when it coincided with his (& cerberus') interests.

Let me ask you a question; would the Collector's have been defeated without TIM? The answer is no. Just because he wasn't on the front lines doesn't mean he wasn't an essential part of it.

quite possibly yes, they would. it might not have been humanity (alone) that did it, and it might have cost a lot more lives and colonies, but eventually the galaxy as a whole would have cottoned onto them and dealt with them.

TIM provided funds/a ship/info. that was it. he also used shep when he felt like it (to spring a trap), and, depending on your end-game choices, would have killed shep to get access to superior technology. he was not benevolent in any way, anything he did also furthered his agenda, shepard just happened to be the one person who could accomplish the task the best/fastest.

you also seem to be forgetting all of the other questionable ops cerberus was running, both during me1 and me2, many of which could have been just as deadly as the collectors themselves: renegade rachni, overlord etc.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 16 juillet 2010 - 03:19 .

[CosmicTourist]

Jebel Krong wrote...

CosmicTourist wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

TIM didn't save the galaxy - shepard did. i don't necc. want him dead (interesting characters are sometimes much better left alive), but he had only very indirect involvement in saving the galaxy, and even then when it coincided with his (& cerberus') interests.

Let me ask you a question; would the Collector's have been defeated without TIM? The answer is no. Just because he wasn't on the front lines doesn't mean he wasn't an essential part of it.

quite possibly yes, they would. it might not have been humanity (alone) that did it, and it might have cost a lot more lives and colonies, but eventually the galaxy as a whole would have cottoned onto them and dealt with them.

TIM provided funds/a ship/info. that was it. he also used shep when he felt like it (to spring a trap), and, depending on your end-game choices, would have killed shep to get access to superior technology. he was not benevolent in any way, anything he did also furthered his agenda, shepard just happened to be the one person who could accomplish the task the best/fastest.

you also seem to be forgetting all of the other questionable ops cerberus was running, both during me1 and me2, many of which could have been just as deadly as the collectors themselves: renegade rachni, overlord etc.

Well, I think that's incredibly naive. Asari, salarians, turians wouldn't care that some random human colonies were missing, and if they weren't willing to go into the Terminus Systems to stop Saren and the Geth, a known threat in the first game, why would they be willing to combat the Collectors, which most people think are a myth?

The Alliance is similar, and also bogged down in Council affairs, trying to learn the ropes of galactic governance, and the colonies are clearly a far distant priority. And by the time the volume of human losses would have been enough to rouse them from their complacency, it would have been too late, and the Collectors and Reapers' plan would have  already been completed.

And those funds/ship/info you so derisively mention WERE essential to defeating the Collectors. Do you think any other stealth ship would have been able to defeat the Collector vessel? Do you think Shepard would have defeated the Collectors without EDI, or without the essential info about the IFF and the Derelict Reaper, which were all the work of TIM and Cerberus? And, again, if TIM really just wanted Shepard as his servant, why not install the control chip? Yes, TIM often used Shepard. But his actions still helped save the galaxy.

And as regards all those experiments. To think that other races haven't behaved just as unethically is incredibly naive. Cerberus, for most of its life, was Alliance. Akuze, Jack, etc. were all done under Alliance aegis. And I'm sure that other species have performed just as questionable experiments. I mean we have the STG and Turians creating and deploying the genophage, a devastating biological weapon that caused far more deaths than anything Cerberus did, for starters.

And it wasn't Cerberus which brought back the Rachni. It was Saren and his front corporation. Cerberus was simply trying to capitalize on the technology so that humanity didn't lose its edge. 

Yes, Cerberus has done terrible things, and I don't excuse them, or trust them. But they also have been instrumental in saving the galaxy, which is something so many seem loath to acknowledge. I suppose Garrus said it best, "black and white is easy, grey, I don't know what to do with that."

Modifié par CosmicTourist, 16 juillet 2010 - 05:03 .

[Terror_K]

CosmicTourist wrote...

One good deed... I thought saving the galaxy might be a little more significant than just a "good deed". And if TIM motives were really so selfish, why didn't he plant the control chip in Shepard's brain? Secondly, what do his motives matter? It's actions that are important, and his actions saved the galaxy. He's done, or allowed, some terrible things, yes, but he's also been instrumental in saving galactic civilization.

I honestly don't understand the intense hatred of TIM. He's  a great character, much more interesting than the Alliance and Council reps, and I wouldn't want him dead just for that. I suppose from  a RP perspective, it might be because he's more powerful than Shepard, and that makes people angry because they all think their Shepards are gods and don't like their agency being limited. Same reason there was anger at Aria's 'don't f*ck with me' line.

Key... don't get me wrong here. TIM's a character I love to hate. I don't hate the character, I just hate the person. Like all good villains should be. I loved to hate Saren too. Especially in Revelation.

[NKKKK]

All I'm hearing here is "Baw Baw, I'm not buying this cause I'm gonna kill the Illusive man, bahhh."

[FlyingWalrus]

TIM's my bro. Humanity shall inherit the galaxy!