59 réponses à ce sujet

[zahra]

Less game-breaking bugs? I know it has nothing to do with the writers etc, but it gets kinda tiring scouring the forum for remedies after awhile.



Also I agree on less "fetch this kill this" quests. Boring and adds nothing to the game besides more things to stab.

[Celticon]

1varangian wrote...

Celticon wrote...
I disagree. What makes a weapon or piece of armor special is not solely based on its material, but also its backstory/description and stats/bonuses. There's a huge difference between say, silverite Juggernaut Armor versus a generic dragonbone chainmail/heavy chainmail/massive armor.

There are special high tier items. They cost an arm and a leg, i.e. Voice of the Velvet, The Rose's Thorn, and Reaper's Vestements. Those are the truely rare items.

Personally, I avoided buying most vendor items since I found it more economic to use looted gear/quest rewards.

My point is that having 7 or 9 different tiers of the same sword is redundant. Partly because of the special uniques you mention. I also dislike how the equipment tiers are linked to your level because of the steep stat requirements. They might as well just have a flat out level requirement a la Diablo. Bad design for an RPG imo. And Dragonbone items littering a setting where dragons are thought to be extinct is just inconsistent.

The material tiers are also very linear and boring. The next tier is always heavier and better. Better could also mean lighter - Silverite armor could offer the same protection as red steel for less weight and a lower str requirement. The materials could have much more character.

Unique high tier armor sets sometimes have HUGE fatigue reduction set bonuses (i.e. the Hirol massive plate). They are thus lighter to some extent.

The different tiers not only exist to differentiate them through fatigue and damage/armor penetration, but also value. If you only found grey iron/steel items throughout the entire game (with the exception of uniques), you'd hardly be able to partake in any gold intensive purchases or activity, like donating to Eamon's army or buying legendary items or crafting expensive stuff (this is especially true in Awakening).

It's a fantasy game where things don't have to make sense 100% of the time, or even 50% of the time. So long as its enjoyable.

[Dick Delaware]

Celticon wrote...
Side quests are just that, side quests. They are mercenarial and straightforward favors. I don't see how you can make them any more complex without making them plot-related or simply too complicated to be considered "side" quests anymore.

I don't see why this needs to be the case though, no? The problem here is that in an RPG the player might want to level up to get cool new abilities and get money for awesome items, but to get cool new abilities and items, the player has to slog through boring and repetitive side quests. It's not very good design.

Bloodlines is an example of a game with some really superb side-quests. Some of them were complex, and as you mentioned, plot-related, but many of them were really interesting and had nothing to do with the main story. There's this really interesting one where you are hunting for clues to track down this serial killer, it was really excellent. There were a few that were like this and it really made the world feel alive.

All I'm saying is, just because you have side quests, doesn't mean that you can't have depth to go with it.

[Dansayshi]

Dick is right, good sidequests can make a good game great, just look at TES4 and the dark brotherhood.

I also think that level scaling is needed tbh, otherwise parts of the game will become ludicrously easy. What actually needs to be improved upon regarding this is item scaling and variety. Enemies become stronger, but with your equipment are easily overcame, while still being a threat in larger numbers.

My gripes with DOA tho were;

The dull combat system. Once you knew what you were doing and had a good tactics setup, it just became boring, and battles felt more like a chure, they were there just for filler.

Armour. Many were just retextures of one another, and armour such as scale and mail were completely pointless. Just made the game feel a little less rewarding. Part of the fun of an RPG is watching your character change as you play, this I felt was missing in DOA.

Balance is also an issue, some classes and specialisations were just better than others, and using them made the game too easy to beat.

Open lands. This is a difficult one, and while we had a map and could choose were to go, once there it was very limited, often linear. Id love the chance to explore, even a little bit. The random encounters and sidequest locations on the map were also pretty dissapointing. You'd get a loading screen, you'd fight 5 or so enemies, then you'd be back onto the loading screen, just felt a littlebit like a waste of time. How about tying these areas into major cities and such in order to open them up and give sidequests more involvement in that fashion. At least their would be more depth.

The inventory system. It was oversimplified to put it bluntly, and it makes me miss NWN's.

Great game otherwise for me.

Modifié par Dansayshi, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:19 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

 I think the main issue is the abundance of potions.  I'm fine with quickly regenerating health/mana after battle (Injuries could be toned up a bit though I think, to punish you for messing up) but mid battle it's so easy to just spam potions.  The main issue is it's so easy to craft them due to the abundance of the necessary resources. (If you only use potions you buy in shops, you're going to run out fairly quick)  Imo, they should get rid of infinite lyrium dust/elfroot etc vendors, but have merchants restock every once in a while.  Increasing the cost couldn't hurt either.

EDIT:

Level scaling is absolutely necessary in a game where you can't really avoid a lot of the boss fights.  It would be nice though if they saved tougher enemies (Like demons or Ogres/Drakes) for later game areas, so that most enemies it makes sense for them to be kinda easy.

Modifié par ITSSEXYTIME, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:27 .

[Dick Delaware]

Dansayshi wrote...

Dick is right, good sidequests can make a good game great, just look at TES4 and the dark brotherhood.

I also think that level scaling is needed tbh, otherwise parts of the game will become ludicrously easy. What actually needs to be improved upon regarding this is item scaling and variety. Enemies become stronger, but with your equipment are easily overcame, while still being a threat in larger numbers.

Personally, I thought Oblivion was a terrible game and a perfect example of bad design, but I loved the Dark Brotherhood questline. One of the few bits of the game with actual atmosphere and that actually made the player think a little bit.

I am not sure what you mean by your second paragraph? Do you mean that you want items to be scaled to your level? If so, I have to disagree completely. It takes all the accomplishment out of beating a tough enemy to have their item become obsolete three levels down the road. It was one of the most poorly designed aspects of Oblivion and I doubt Bethesda will ever do something that stupid again.

Dansayshi wrote...
My gripes with DOA tho were;

The dull combat system. Once you knew what you were doing and had a good tactics setup, it just became boring, and battles felt more like a chure, they were there just for filler.

Armour. Many were just retextures of one another, and armour such as scale and mail were completely pointless. Just made the game feel a little less rewarding. Part of the fun of an RPG is watching your character change as you play, this I felt was missing in DOA.

Balance is also an issue, some classes and specialisations were just better than others, and using them made the game too easy to beat.

Combat system was OK, but I agree about the filler encounters. Way too many examples of mobs of enemies thrown in there just for the sake of throwing mobs of enemies. The Korcari WIlds, The Fade, and Deep Roads were pretty egregious in this regard. Legions of enemies that pretty much have the same tactics.

A few things need to be done here: 

* More thought needs to be put into the encounters. You can't just throw mobs of the exact same enemies at me and expect me to have fun. Fighting dragons was cool because they offered unique challenges, and I wish the combat was more thoughtful in what problems it threw at you.

* Social skills as an alternative to combat. I really wish I had more opportunities to avoid combat by manipulating, lying or persuading my way out of it.

Part of the problem was that the villain in Dragon Age were boring orcs, who can't be reasoned with. But it annoys me where there should have been a social option, but wasn't. Why do you have to fight Loghain, no matter what? I've gathered all that evidence precisely so I can have him hanged and clear the Wardens, and now I have to duke it out with him after fighting through Howe's mansion and fighting through the Alienage? Ugh.

Also, it would have been really cool if you could somehow determine a way to leave the Sloth Demon's control without fighting him. Demons are very intelligent and interesting creatures, and I would love to somehow beat them at their own game of deception.

Really, it's no surprise that the best parts of the game, Redcliffe - Urn of Sacred Ashes, are the ones with the most dialogue and options, yet the least amount of combat.

Balance is definitely a problem as well. In a single-player game, obviously it's important to give the designer some leeway, but when you have four specializations for the rogue, yet none of them involve archery in any way... well, it's a problem. If you've invested your points in archery, it's disappointing that there's nothing there to enhance your ranged-combat capabilities.

Two-handers attack way too slowly. A dual-wielder with momentum will attack way faster and deal more damage than a dual-wielder. This needs to be remedied.

[Dansayshi]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Dansayshi wrote...

I also think that level scaling is needed tbh, otherwise parts of the game will become ludicrously easy. What actually needs to be improved upon regarding this is item scaling and variety. Enemies become stronger, but with your equipment are easily overcame, while still being a threat in larger numbers.

I am not sure what you mean by your second paragraph? Do you mean that you want items to be scaled to your level? If so, I have to disagree completely. It takes all the accomplishment out of beating a tough enemy to have their item become obsolete three levels down the road. It was one of the most poorly designed aspects of Oblivion and I doubt Bethesda will ever do something that stupid again.

What I meant in my 2nd paragraph was that, level scaling is needed, but items need to be scaled correctly aswell. Oblivion didnt do it right I admit, but in DOA, a peice of jewellery, gained at the very start of the game, would be exactly the same at the end of it. Risk should equal reward, but in DOA, it pretty much dumped so many good items on you depending on where you went, and even then, some of the best items could be bought from vendors pretty early on. It needs tweaking, but how to do that im not too sure. 1 of the most fun things for me in an RPG is watching my character grow through the game. But wearing the same gear for 3/4 of it really takes away from that.

Do agree with your points too btw

Modifié par Dansayshi, 17 juillet 2010 - 03:31 .

[Stefanocrpg_rev91]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Dansayshi wrote...

Dick is right, good sidequests can make a good game great, just look at TES4 and the dark brotherhood.

I also think that level scaling is needed tbh, otherwise parts of the game will become ludicrously easy. What actually needs to be improved upon regarding this is item scaling and variety. Enemies become stronger, but with your equipment are easily overcame, while still being a threat in larger numbers.

Personally, I thought Oblivion was a terrible game and a perfect example of bad design, but I loved the Dark Brotherhood questline. One of the few bits of the game with actual atmosphere and that actually made the player think a little bit.

I am not sure what you mean by your second paragraph? Do you mean that you want items to be scaled to your level? If so, I have to disagree completely. It takes all the accomplishment out of beating a tough enemy to have their item become obsolete three levels down the road. It was one of the most poorly designed aspects of Oblivion and I doubt Bethesda will ever do something that stupid again.

Dansayshi wrote...
My gripes with DOA tho were;

The dull combat system. Once you knew what you were doing and had a good tactics setup, it just became boring, and battles felt more like a chure, they were there just for filler.

Armour. Many were just retextures of one another, and armour such as scale and mail were completely pointless. Just made the game feel a little less rewarding. Part of the fun of an RPG is watching your character change as you play, this I felt was missing in DOA.

Balance is also an issue, some classes and specialisations were just better than others, and using them made the game too easy to beat.

Combat system was OK, but I agree about the filler encounters. Way too many examples of mobs of enemies thrown in there just for the sake of throwing mobs of enemies. The Korcari WIlds, The Fade, and Deep Roads were pretty egregious in this regard. Legions of enemies that pretty much have the same tactics.

A few things need to be done here: 

* More thought needs to be put into the encounters. You can't just throw mobs of the exact same enemies at me and expect me to have fun. Fighting dragons was cool because they offered unique challenges, and I wish the combat was more thoughtful in what problems it threw at you.

* Social skills as an alternative to combat. I really wish I had more opportunities to avoid combat by manipulating, lying or persuading my way out of it.

Part of the problem was that the villain in Dragon Age were boring orcs, who can't be reasoned with. But it annoys me where there should have been a social option, but wasn't. Why do you have to fight Loghain, no matter what? I've gathered all that evidence precisely so I can have him hanged and clear the Wardens, and now I have to duke it out with him after fighting through Howe's mansion and fighting through the Alienage? Ugh.

Also, it would have been really cool if you could somehow determine a way to leave the Sloth Demon's control without fighting him. Demons are very intelligent and interesting creatures, and I would love to somehow beat them at their own game of deception.

Really, it's no surprise that the best parts of the game, Redcliffe - Urn of Sacred Ashes, are the ones with the most dialogue and options, yet the least amount of combat.

Balance is definitely a problem as well. In a single-player game, obviously it's important to give the designer some leeway, but when you have four specializations for the rogue, yet none of them involve archery in any way... well, it's a problem. If you've invested your points in archery, it's disappointing that there's nothing there to enhance your ranged-combat capabilities.

Two-handers attack way too slowly. A dual-wielder with momentum will attack way faster and deal more damage than a dual-wielder. This needs to be remedied.

I quote every single word you wrote.
One of the biggest problem of Origins was the excessive number of battles, especially in The Deep Roads part.
I'd be glad to have less combats, or at least the possibility to avoid some fightings, possibly without having a malus in the XP.
More roleplay, more dialogues and less fights!

Anyway, the remaining battles need some fixings: a bigger variety of enemies and tactics required to defeat them, first, and a better balance of the classes and skills then.
I also quote most of what 1varangian said.

[Dansayshi]

Also like to add something about the difficulty and AI tweaks.



Playing the game on easy was just like playing it on nightmare, except that the enemy was given more health and damage. What would really make a higher difficulty setting more.... well... difficult, is improving the way the AI fights against you. Have it use abilities, items or spells in order to hinder you, surprise you and make you actually have to think a little more, rather than simply turning it into a slightly longer fight.

[1varangian]

Celticon wrote...

1varangian wrote...

Celticon wrote...
I disagree. What makes a weapon or piece of armor special is not solely based on its material, but also its backstory/description and stats/bonuses. There's a huge difference between say, silverite Juggernaut Armor versus a generic dragonbone chainmail/heavy chainmail/massive armor.

There are special high tier items. They cost an arm and a leg, i.e. Voice of the Velvet, The Rose's Thorn, and Reaper's Vestements. Those are the truely rare items.

Personally, I avoided buying most vendor items since I found it more economic to use looted gear/quest rewards.

My point is that having 7 or 9 different tiers of the same sword is redundant. Partly because of the special uniques you mention. I also dislike how the equipment tiers are linked to your level because of the steep stat requirements. They might as well just have a flat out level requirement a la Diablo. Bad design for an RPG imo. And Dragonbone items littering a setting where dragons are thought to be extinct is just inconsistent.

The material tiers are also very linear and boring. The next tier is always heavier and better. Better could also mean lighter - Silverite armor could offer the same protection as red steel for less weight and a lower str requirement. The materials could have much more character.

Unique high tier armor sets sometimes have HUGE fatigue reduction set bonuses (i.e. the Hirol massive plate). They are thus lighter to some extent.

The different tiers not only exist to differentiate them through fatigue and damage/armor penetration, but also value. If you only found grey iron/steel items throughout the entire game (with the exception of uniques), you'd hardly be able to partake in any gold intensive purchases or activity, like donating to Eamon's army or buying legendary items or crafting expensive stuff (this is especially true in Awakening).

It's a fantasy game where things don't have to make sense 100% of the time, or even 50% of the time. So long as its enjoyable.

Let's not confuse the game's economy with armor and weapon materials. You could just as easily find valuable gems instead of high tier armor to sell.

Most games don't even have material tiers. There's just normal and magic items and it works fine. Now I like the material approach, but the material progression doesn't have to be so linear. A silverite armor that would be hard as steel but with half the fatigue and Str requirement would be a massive improvement and a much more interesting approach than just multiplying all values by 1.4.

Speaking of value - basic rule is that the more rare something is, the more valuable it is. Awakening has "ultra rare" equipment pouring out every chest and genlock corpse which makes it feel really generic and boring.