776 réponses à ce sujet

[NKKKK]

I wouldn't do a M/M romance, but I think the option should be there for the fan girls and the actual homosexuals.



Cause I would feel guilty watching girl on girl action.

[joriandrake]

David Gaider wrote...

TeachingFellow wrote...
P.S.--I know that Bioware representatives are really good about reading and responding to the forums, but please, don't give me any of that "wait and see" crap; just "you are wrong" or "you are right" or keep your mouths shut.

Wow.

So it's "tell us right now that it's in or it's clearly not and you're a bunch of bastards"? 

Well, alrighty then. Since we're not talking about many features yet, romances of any sort included, I guess bastards it is. Sorry to disappoint you.

heh, you got from him options that don't really matter, as in getting either killed by a bullet, hanging, poison, beheading, or suffocating

[MKDAWUSS]

And THIS is the biggest issue of DA2...

[joriandrake]

NKKKK wrote...

I wouldn't do a M/M romance, but I think the option should be there for the fan girls and the actual homosexuals.

Cause I would feel guilty watching girl on girl action.

girl on girl is awesome, especially if you're a guy and watch it

as for M/M i would rather not see it, but thats me being hypocrite

[Riona45]

Biserthebomb wrote...

You have to understand that Hawke (most likely, I could be wrong) is supposed to be a manly character.

1)  Hawke can be a woman.

2)  A gay man can still be "manly."

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

I don't think Bioware has any obligation to address any sort of sexual relationship. As much as I want to see my crush-fetish validated in video games, I've come to accept that evil corporations will prevent my people from ever being recognized by this important political medium.

[NKKKK]

joriandrake wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

I wouldn't do a M/M romance, but I think the option should be there for the fan girls and the actual homosexuals.

Cause I would feel guilty watching girl on girl action.

girl on girl is awesome, especially if you're a guy and watch it

as for M/M i would rather not see it, but thats me being hypocrite

Then don't see it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. Also the OP, though harsh in words kind of does have it's points.

[TheSimsMaster]

David Gaider wrote...

TeachingFellow wrote...
P.S.--I know that Bioware representatives are really good about reading and responding to the forums, but please, don't give me any of that "wait and see" crap; just "you are wrong" or "you are right" or keep your mouths shut.

Wow.

So it's "tell us right now that it's in or it's clearly not and you're a bunch of bastards"? 

Well, alrighty then. Since we're not talking about many features yet, romances of any sort included, I guess bastards it is. Sorry to disappoint you.

God, I love you guys.  

[TeachingFellow]

Biserthebomb wrote...

You have to understand that Hawke (most likely, I could be wrong) is supposed to be a manly character. Now it may be true that he would still be a man should he choose to become homosexual, but you have to understand the desire to be manly stems from the urge to appear manly/attractive to females, a stupid practice that us heterosexuals are involved in, I know, but usually homosexuals do not feel they need to be something they are not (at least in the way of being manly). I could be wrong, but I think a pre-conceived manly character would be heterosexual.

At the risk of pissing off even more people (after re-reading the initial post, I can see that it was kind of ****y and pointlessly aggressive), I have to say that this is exactly what I was talking about.  Perhaps the whiny, aimless anger of my initial comments gave the wrong impression, but I'm pretty much a regular guy.  People do not automatically identify me as gay because I don't fit the extremely over-exposed stereotypes our culture has developed.  I worry that people assume playing as a gay male character requires playing as an effiminate, catty individual. 

It is unbelievably dispiriting to never see characters you can really identify with in a narrative form you enjoy.  One of the things I like about DA:O is that I could make it quite clear that my character was gay and yet still  envision him as being more or less like me (if you understand what I mean).  I'm deeply concerned that DA2 won't allow my character to be either.

Sorry I made everyone so angry.  I won't post anything else to this discussion, so hopefully everyone will calm down and focus on more imporant aspects of the game (like the actual gameplay part; I want better options to build a dedicated healer!).  And I still hope I'm wrong.

[Thibbledorf26]

TeachingFellow wrote...

It's one thing if there is a voiceless PC.  However, EA is going to hype the hell out of Hawke (and only the male Hawke, mind you, even if the actress is just as good or even better than the actor) and God forbid that a heterosexual male in the year 2010 even has to think that us gays exist, led alone be presented the option to play as a homosexual.  There will be a lesbian romance option, because straight men fetishize lesbianism, and the absence of the gay male option will draw attention to that fact and detract from the feeling of open-minded inclusion for some lesbian players. 

We will--at best--be "treated" to a few effiminate stereotypes.  We will certainly not see a Zevran.  Or, at worst, we will see someone who is exactly like Zevran, but without the depth of character to rise a little above the stereotypes.

Prove me wrong, Bioware.  Make a game that is respectful towards all of your fanbase.  You don't have to pander to us, but at least include us.  You did it once before, now let's try for two out of two. 

But I hope nobody holds their breath.

P.S.--I know that Bioware representatives are really good about reading and responding to the forums, but please, don't give me any of that "wait and see" crap; just "you are wrong" or "you are right" or keep your mouths shut.  I know full well that the reality is that I will probably be long dead before the stigma of homosexuality is eased to the point that a mass-appeal commercial product can truly include us, and your corporate masters absolutely have the right to dictate your design process to maximize profit.  Just don't try to hand-wave it away now, because that's only going to underline the bitter realities of our society when or if I play the final product and see them play out clear as day.

This is a bit prejudiced against straight men, who you are painting with the same brush. You have acknowledged it already, but yeah this post was not fair to the straight male demographic or to Bioware.

[tmp7704]

I bet it will be elf LI again...
... because it's not gay when it's elf

[Riona45]

TeachingFellow wrote...


Sorry I made everyone so angry.

I wasn't angry.

[Riona45]

Thibbledorf26 wrote...
This is a bit prejudiced against straight men, who you are painting with the same brush. You have acknowledged it already, but yeah this post was not fair to the straight male demographic or to Bioware.

Indeed, because straight males lack privilege and face prejudice for being straight every day of their lives...and especially on these boards.

[LPPrince]

Malanek999 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

NEVER demand anything from a developer. EVER.

That'll get you nowhere fast.

If you are a major component of that devlopers income, demanding gets you everywhere, very quickly.

And unless the OP is the single source of Bioware's income, he's wasting his, our, and the dev's time.

[Syracuse]

There are some situations where paying fifty dollars let's you make demands based on sexuality; purchasing a video game isn't really one of them.

I can respect everyone's love of, and concern for this franchise. That said, and with all due respect to the BioWare team and Mr. Gaider, it's just a video game. The constant apoplectic tantrums and childish demands to meet certain expectations "or else", the over-analyzing of every rumor culminating in group hysterics... And now over simulated sex in a game? All directed at a company who has historically offered more freedom of choice in games, romantic or otherwise, than almost anything outside the GTA franchise.

Video games are not the place to look for validation or representation of lifestyle choices.

It's amazing, the sense of entitlement people can develop for something they didn't know existed five minutes beforehand.

[sporky1]

TeachingFellow wrote...

It's one thing if there is a voiceless PC.  However, EA is going to hype the hell out of Hawke (and only the male Hawke, mind you, even if the actress is just as good or even better than the actor) and God forbid that a heterosexual male in the year 2010 even has to think that us gays exist, led alone be presented the option to play as a homosexual.  There will be a lesbian romance option, because straight men fetishize lesbianism, and the absence of the gay male option will draw attention to that fact and detract from the feeling of open-minded inclusion for some lesbian players. 

We will--at best--be "treated" to a few effiminate stereotypes.  We will certainly not see a Zevran.  Or, at worst, we will see someone who is exactly like Zevran, but without the depth of character to rise a little above the stereotypes.

Prove me wrong, Bioware.  Make a game that is respectful towards all of your fanbase.  You don't have to pander to us, but at least include us.  You did it once before, now let's try for two out of two. 

But I hope nobody holds their breath.

P.S.--I know that Bioware representatives are really good about reading and responding to the forums, but please, don't give me any of that "wait and see" crap; just "you are wrong" or "you are right" or keep your mouths shut.  I know full well that the reality is that I will probably be long dead before the stigma of homosexuality is eased to the point that a mass-appeal commercial product can truly include us, and your corporate masters absolutely have the right to dictate your design process to maximize profit.  Just don't try to hand-wave it away now, because that's only going to underline the bitter realities of our society when or if I play the final product and see them play out clear as day.

Keep in mind that Bioware is one of the few companies who have been willing to go there. That shows a lot of guts. I want to see that option in their just as much as you do, but I'd support them even if it isn't available

[Kalfear]

joriandrake wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

I wouldn't do a M/M romance, but I think the option should be there for the fan girls and the actual homosexuals.

Cause I would feel guilty watching girl on girl action.

girl on girl is awesome, especially if you're a guy and watch it

as for M/M i would rather not see it, but thats me being hypocrite

Add me to hypocrite list, girl on girl is fine but im not wanting to see even a hint of guy on guy!!
I hope they go the JE route and not the DA:O route if they do have ****** stuff and hide it better this time around so its not in your face like Zevran is.

Sky was done perfectly in JE. I didnt even know there was a ****** option till I read about it on the forums and thats how it should be handled!

[Pocketgb]

Eh, I think it'll be okay. First off, the "DA team" doesn't seem to be the same as the "ME team." Secondly, the same-sex scenes in DA were probably the most graphic (thus most sensual - hence why they were my favorite!) in any of Bioware's games thus far, and I don't recall much 'backlash' from the media.



So, I think the only thing 'stopping' Bioware from having same-sex romances is whether or not they want Hawke to be a homosexual. That I feel is a bit more reasonable.



Of course, we'll have full-right to be pissed if they give us same-sex options as a female but not as a male

[sporky1]

Kalfear wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

I wouldn't do a M/M romance, but I think the option should be there for the fan girls and the actual homosexuals.

Cause I would feel guilty watching girl on girl action.

girl on girl is awesome, especially if you're a guy and watch it

as for M/M i would rather not see it, but thats me being hypocrite

Add me to hypocrite list, girl on girl is fine but im not wanting to see even a hint of guy on guy!!
I hope they go the JE route and not the DA:O route if they do have ****** stuff and hide it better this time around so its not in your face like Zevran is.

Sky was done perfectly in JE. I didnt even know there was a ****** option till I read about it on the forums and thats how it should be handled!

Zevran was just an in your face kind of guy. Nothing wrong with that, but he was probably my least favorite character. I say keep the DA:O route but not with a kinky elf who hits on everything he sees.

[CalJones]

Speaking as a straight woman, I love to see two hot blokes going at it. We all know straight men like a bit of hot lesbian action but there are plenty of women who appreciate a bit of man on man.

As for the supposition that a gay man can't possibly be manly, I think we all know, in this day and age, that's a lot of nonsense. Nearly all my friends are gay men and none of them are what you'd call effeminate: one works on an oil barge, one is a brickie, several lift weights and fall into the bear category and the rest are indistinguishable from straight men, save for the sexual preference. Bearded trailer Hawke would definitely appeal to the bear contingent - no reason he can't be gay.

I think people are worried because DA2 is moving more towards ME with a voiced protagnoist, but ME is a different franchise. It does irk me that FemShep could sleep with Liara or get a lapdance from Kelly, but MaleShep only had the option of hetero flirtations. After all, Jacob might've been more interesting to me had he been a gay option (as it was, my FemSheps gave him a wide berth).

But I can deal with that.

DA's a different kettle of fish and if anyone will give us a gay romance option, it's Bioware. Fingers crossed, anyway.

[Altima Darkspells]

The OP is missing a very important aspect of the new 'manly man' direction Hawke is heading towards.



Real men don't have feelings.



So, clearly, there will not be a homosexual male romance option because males will not have romance options. What male Hawke will have is an option to hit a man or woman he fances over the head with a club and drag said person to a cave to rut for an evening. Or maybe drug them, as part of the darkier and edgier aspect.



However, women, as the only sex that has feelings, will have both straight and gay romances.

[iTomes]

i didn't read everything so i guess it already was brought up BUT: theres a difference between ME and DA. DA is (as far as i can see it) a game for adults only. meaning it has adult only content. ME is (in many countries) a game rated with 16+ or something. point is that if non hetero relationships lead to an public debate you cant swing the "its adult only,.like gay/lesbian porn videos"-stick to end the debate or take away its arguments.

[joriandrake]

Kalfear wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

I wouldn't do a M/M romance, but I think the option should be there for the fan girls and the actual homosexuals.

Cause I would feel guilty watching girl on girl action.

girl on girl is awesome, especially if you're a guy and watch it

as for M/M i would rather not see it, but thats me being hypocrite

Add me to hypocrite list, girl on girl is fine but im not wanting to see even a hint of guy on guy!!
I hope they go the JE route and not the DA:O route if they do have ****** stuff and hide it better this time around so its not in your face like Zevran is.

Sky was done perfectly in JE. I didnt even know there was a ****** option till I read about it on the forums and thats how it should be handled!

true, same thoughts about JE and Sky for me, but all this talk about JE just made me want JE2 even more

[David Gaider]

TeachingFellow wrote...
I really do hope that Dragon Age continues to be a high-point for gays in video games.  However, I don't want to be one of those who champions something as a given only to be betrayed in the end.  I'd rather sheepishly apologize later for--unintentionally--inflammatory comments than come on after the game is out and say "I was sure they wouldn't forget us in this game."  I don't know what DA2 will be like, and I do hope that I'm wrong, but yelling at me to wait until I hear more won't change the truth of what I said if I happen to be right.

Well, how about this then: we're very aware of the desires of our fans when it comes to romances, whether they be homosexual or otherwise. Being able to include any kind of content that's really only useable by a relatively small percentage of the player base is often problematic-- it's not an issue of "want to" but rather "able to". There's also the issue of where you put the resources you have-- adding content for extra player options is great, but if they're options that many players will not use or event want to use it's not necessarily the best use of those resources. I can't really fault a decision to provide more options for a greater amount of players as opposed to less options for everyone.

There's a fallacy at work among people who come to these forums that romances, once they're included in a game, become a right-- that if we have romances they must be allocated "fairly" or it's disciminatory. But you don't have a right to romances in a game-- any more than you have a right to free worship or to be an elf. It's a difficult issue to discuss, because we don't look on it as an issue of fairness. It's content, like any other sort of content, and we'll only ever be able to include a limited amount of it so we have to make the best of it we can, and we're always going to try and be inclusive of as many of our players' desires are we can.

That said, the Mass Effect team will make its choices and we'll make ours. We'll be happy to let you know what we have in store for you-- when we're ready to even discuss followers in general, never mind romances and the distributions thereof. It's a little early to get upset about this, but I'd like to think that the Dragon Age team has displayed enough willingness in the past to include this kind of content that we'd get a pass-- at least for the moment. But maybe I'm wrong.

Modifié par David Gaider, 16 juillet 2010 - 07:58 .

[iTomes]

oh btw youre and mine "not in the face wish" propablys screwed, i somewhere read about a "flirty dwarf as LI for both genders". im not sure were and cant find it right now, but im pretty sure i read it.