18 réponses à ce sujet

[Steel Majere343]

We all know the set up, a front line of soldiers and then the mage or some kind of spell user in the back.

So how do you deal with it?

just to get some ideas bouncing around, as most of the time i just have my entire party charge straight for the mage but that doesnt really work that well. It works just not well. While my party bumrushes up to the mage all the troops that were before them are killing my party.

But i'v also tried sending the lone troop up there and..meh, still doesnt work comfortably well.
Im toying around with sending my tank in before the party then having the other three go for the mage while most of the troops are on the tank.

While that has semi better results it can still be a clusterf**k of madness since the mage shifts its attention to those i send after it theres a lot of damage dealt whenever i do that, and high powered mage spells vs damagers can be a pain.

So just wondering if there is a more gracefull way of taking down mages, not talking about using certain spells or talents just  character placement.

Oh i also tried only sending one party member to deal with the mage but, as you can understand, mages can have quit a few tricks up their sleave and that strategy has bitten me in the past via crushing prison or chain lightning or other spells of the sort.

[chefbobby203]

I find that the best way to deal with mages is to crowd control them immediately(and kill them hopefully before they can recover). Any way you can stun them, freeze them, or knock them over while you can close the distance is the best way to handle them. Later on in the game I like to run into a good range, War Cry to knock everyone over, then taunt. Afterwards I'll hit the mage with a stun and usually knock them out before the other enemies can recover. If you are playing a rogue, I'd recommend stunning/backstabbing while the tank taunts the others. If you are playing with Alistair(or another warrior spec'd templar), the spell "Cleanse Area" is amazing. It will remove crushing prison, misdirection hex, cone of cold freeze, and curse of mortality. I find that ability comes in really handy(I get it for Alistair at level 9 every time)

[Steel Majere343]

ah so its generally agreed then that its best to not attack as one unit?



The only encounter that i'v had emmense amounts of trouble with on this playthrough was the flame demon and skeleton servant random encounter you get after you side with the templars.

there is talk that its a higher level buggy encounter and all of that. Whether thats true is anyones guess.

In the meantime i need a way to deal with it.

The plan i used last playthrough was to send my tank up about half way and set off the middle flame trap. then i sent sten and my pc up to try to tackle the flame demon.

In the meantime though the damage alistair takes from the skeletons and the fireball that has no doubt occured by now (whoever i send up there gets fireballed to hell immediately so i cant send my mage up there or she will get hit and fall down and that will be too much time to have no heals for alistair) is pretty large, even with heal and regeneration i have to end up up chugging probly a dozen or so potions for alistair alone, then my mage usually doesn't have time to heal the other two who are trying to deal with the flame demon

So they also have to rely on pultices till its dead, which nets me like probly around 20 pultices for one match.



I just beat flemeth and only used 10 lol, so i'm looking for a more gracefull way to deal with not just mages but all backround spellthrowers in general if there is one. I know this encounter is a tough one.



The spells at my disposal for crowd control (i know its hard to help without knowing) are the basics at this point, i usually get this right after i'v just leveled up enough to get regain.



So were talkin like winters grasp, horror, and mindblast. Winters grasp tends to do good damage on them, they being on fire, but for some reason it doesnt actually freeze here, and mindblast gets resisted. Horror works, but out of the 8 skeletons that bumrush alistair while the other two try to deal with the backround flame demon, we know that only stops 1 lol. Which probly helps, but amidst all the damage thats being dealt one is unnotacable.



if anyone has a better way i know its someone here.

[caradoc2000]

Mana clash is the single most useful spell against enemy mages. Even at low levels it does 1000+ damage, oneshotting most mages. Other than that, any disabling/knockdown spells work well.

[Steel Majere343]

well this isnt actually a mage. Its just a greater flame demon, but as a rule i treat all spellthrowers the same, whether its a mage, a demon, a cow in the back i dont care. If its throwing a spell it needs to die first, critters and lesser melee can be dealt with afterwords when the big damage is dealt with.



But i asked that we exclude tactics arranged around spells aquired though because, again, at this point in the game (i always do the mage tower early and i always side with the templars) i have only had time to MAYBE get up to regain.



Thats always my priority with mages, just like my warrior priority is to get taunt.



So really were talking morrigans basic spells here. Wynne is out of the picture for this scenerio obviously, you can't have her for this fight anyways because if you side with the templars shes out and this encounter only happens if you do.



SO, thats where we are at, would any of you change anything about the tactic above given my options?

[Random70]

I always side with the Mages, so this must be the only encounter in the game I'm not familiar with, but here's a few general ideas that might help.

* Warmth Balm would help with the fire damage
* Sten (w/ Indomitable) is immune to fireball knockdown
* Demons are immune to stun, but can be knocked down
* Skeletons are susceptible to both.
* Obviously, if your enemies are stunned or knocked down, they can't hurt you
* Winter's Grasp will freeze with a check. The Boss will probably pass it, but Skeletons have a good shot of failing
* Have Morrigan use Frost Weapons if you've got it.
* Prioritize the Skeletons: 2H --> S/S --> DW
* Exception: If you see a 'Shield Pummel' float, CC the guy immediately

Going forward, get Morri some CC spells. Beyond the ultra-uber Mana Clash and Blood Wound, Crushing Prison and Glyph of Paralysis work wonderfully at range and Cone of Cold is awesome in close (just watch where you aim it)

Modifié par Random70, 16 juillet 2010 - 04:32 .

[Steel Majere343]

thanks for some great tips!

But some things to keep in mind, i do turn on frost weapons (on the consoles she comes with it) and winters grasp is good for damage here but doesnt freeze anything for some reason.



Stens indomitable would probly beast through the fireball but im really not looking for technique advice persay.



More advict based on character placement. Just wondering if im doing it the best way by having alistair stay behind to aggro the skeleton servants and having the PC and Sten run up to try to deal with the greater flame demon.



Because its taking a lot of potions and equipment (bombs etc) right now so im trying to possibly cut that down.



If i'm already doing it the best way then i suppose i'll just have to keep using the 20 or so odd potions.on the next playthrough as well.



all of the servants in this case are 2H lol, i believe thats why they do so much damage, i discovered its not their health thats really strong its the damage they deal, 8 2H skeletons all mobbing on one guy deals a lot of damage quickly (hence all the pultice use).



Warmth balm would help but im more looking for a tactic that would potentially work here without any bells or whistles. basically just straight up low level combat with the occasional shield bash and horror going around.

[Steel Majere343]

i take it the way im doing is the optimal way then? just send the tank in the middle to get fireballed then send the other two party members to kill the greater flame demon?

[Yrkoon]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

well this isnt actually a mage. Its just a greater flame demon, but as a rule i treat all spellthrowers the same, whether its a mage, a demon, a cow in the back i dont care. If its throwing a spell it needs to die first, critters and lesser melee can be dealt with afterwords when the big damage is dealt with.

Mana clash destroys demons almost as easily as it does mages.    But, as you say, lets steer away from that for now, since you don't   have it yet.

Steel Majere343 wrote...

But i asked that we exclude tactics arranged around spells aquired though because, again, at this point in the game (i always do the mage tower early and i always side with the templars) i have only had time to MAYBE get up to regain.

Thats always my priority with mages, just like my warrior priority is to get taunt.

So really were talking morrigans basic spells here. Wynne is out of the picture for this scenerio obviously, you can't have her for this fight anyways because if you side with the templars shes out and this encounter only happens if you do.

SO, thats where we are at, would any of you change anything about the tactic above given my options?

 Who else do you have in your party? 

Anyway, First thing  you want to do right  off the bat is take control of Morrigan, she's going to pretty much solo this demon while everyone else just auto attacks. 

Step 1: .   have  Morrigan cast Vunerability hex  on the demon (it'll make all of the below do much more damage).

Step 2-4:  have her cast Winter's grasp, then Drain Life then Lightning.  Those three spells alone should bring the demon down to a quarter of its health if not kill it outright


After that just have to do her standard staff attack and perhaps a Mind Blast while your melee guys /archers take him out if they're not already there hacking away at him.   When it's dead,  focus on  its minions, who are  NOT that tough, and basic tactics, both melee  and magical should dispatch them

Modifié par Yrkoon, 16 juillet 2010 - 05:11 .

[swk3000]

You want advice on how to deal with Mage's, but aren't willing to hear any advice that mentions a specific spell or talent? You do realize that you're severly limiting the quality of help you're going to get by doing that?



As a general rule, I set my party member's tactics to focus on the Mage first. I do so using abilities that stop them or knock them down. You have Morrigan and Alistair, and each starts with an ability that can take a mage out of the fight for a short time. Morrigan has Cone of Cold, and Alistair has Shield Bash. If you have Leliana as your third member, she has Pinning Shot and Shattering Shot. Set your tactics to have your party members use those on the nearest visible mage, and hope for the best.

[Steel Majere343]

Swk, its not that i want to limit the advice im just trying to focus it into things i can actually use lol, i noted earlier the spells i have to work with or will have by this point. were talking like level 9 here, so pretty much any tactics involving mana clash and all of that, can't use so its irrelevent. If this were later game..perhaps.



Yrk, very solid plan, i'll try that out but not sure of the outcome because, as noted earlier, i did try sending morigan in first but the greater flame demon likes to use fireball plus i need morigan to constantly heal alistair. Maybe they arn't as tough on your game for some reason? lol i dont know, im on normal here but if i leave alistair alone for even a little bit those 2H skeletons gang up on him and do massive damage.



who else is the basic few, morrigan, my PC, likely alistair and perhaps sten or leliana.



I know that it may be hard to figure out what the issue is so bare with me, and i usually build alistair the same way anyone would build any human tank.



Which would consist of strength foremost, dextarity second, and a couple odd points into constitution for spell surviving.



So its not his build, or armor seeing as how its the massive templar armor with some heavy gloves and boots.



His damage COULD be because he was surrounded giving the flanking targets attack bonuses, so that i'll keep in mind.



But i'll try the other pieces of golden advice here such as focusing more on stun techniques, that is one thing im embarrased to say i didn't try. Usually i just have them try to bumb rush him after he tosses a fireball.

[BelSirk]

wow my tactic seem too simple ... i just use Mana clash on the mage and it's done... if not force field for kill the most dangerous meele enemy first and get a chance my meeele sorround the mage...

[Elhanan]

Scattershot, Shattershot, Stone Fist, Fireball, etc; any effect with Stun and Knockdown effects are generally a good idea for mages. I also like the Glyphs, as the combo can give time to place boots next to the mage, and all but one of the Glyphs (ie; Warding) will be useful against them.

if you have Dog in the party, Overwhelm is certainly a spell stopper when it becomes available.

[Steel Majere343]

once again Elhanan lol, all those spells and talents are great but not accessable at this point.

[Tryst]

Kite the skeletons with your tank.

[swk3000]

Steel, stop sitting there telling us what you can't do, and start telling us what you can do. When you do, we can give you advice you can actually use. Since I can't offer any advice due to lack of information, I'm leaving.

[T0rin3]

Sounds like you really just need better armor for Alistair, if that means leveling up or doing quests, so be it. There are a lot of skeletons in that encounter, but if you get his armor high enough, they'll all pretty much do nothing, leaving you to focus on the fire demon while alistair sucks up all the skele damage with threat.

[aebriol]

I have two tactics I use:
- 1 is pulling. Just move the party around the nearest corner, have one character go up and get aggro, and run back. The fights are usually easier when the mobs are clumped up together so you can use ae spells, activated abilities, shorter run distances, etc.
- Another is getting ring of ages, do the elves early and get the juggernaut armor set, and just have the tank run up, he'll shrug off a lot of spells that way, and the rest of the party is normally out of range for the ae effect like on fireball.

Other than that, I always, always, kill mages first.

edit: In specific encounters, having the tank - tank, and all others use archery, ranged damage, is also very nice, because it means just one character needs healing, and you can usually keep that up pretty well. 

Modifié par aebriol, 16 juillet 2010 - 02:25 .

[Yrkoon]

Steel Majere343 wrote...


Yrk, very solid plan, i'll try that out but not sure of the outcome because, as noted earlier, i did try sending morigan in first but the greater flame demon likes to use fireball plus i need morigan to constantly heal alistair. Maybe they arn't as tough on your game for some reason? lol i dont know, im on normal here but if i leave alistair alone for even a little bit those 2H skeletons gang up on him and do massive damage.

Oh, I most certainly don't recommend you send Morrigan in first.  That's suicide.  No no.  You should have her cast those spells from a safe distance.


Also, don't be too worried about Alistair falling in battle.  His job in this fight is to simply draw the enemy's attention away from your mage.  If you can  keep him alive, then great, but  it's not really required.

And PS: do not underestimate Morrigan's Mindblast spell. If she is ever surrounded by enemy mobs, that spell will save her life.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 16 juillet 2010 - 04:11 .