115 réponses à ce sujet

[CrookedAsylum]

****** harder, guys, ****** harder.

[Nerevar-as]

ME2 was a WORST port than ME1, which I think was made by a 3rd party (can anyone confirm?), so I hope it is not a port. Also, consoles are already getting behind average computers, so it means games are sometimes not as good as they could get in PC because of this. I´m missing the times when each platform had it´s own version of a game, but don´t think that´s practical,or considered worth the effort nowadays.

[Gaxhung]

BW probably have more experience doing PC than consoles, as long as the PC version doesn't suck, I don't really care how they develop the game. Ray Muzyca seems to be talking to teh console players, to ensure them DA2 will not be "best played on PC" like DAO.

[hxx7y]

Mr Gaeta ...
narwilliams.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/felix-gaeta-is-lando-calrissian.jpg

Jump us out of this thread!

Modifié par hxx7y, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:42 .

[hxx7y]

hxx7y wrote...

Mr Gaeta ...
narwilliams.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/felix-gaeta-is-lando-calrissian.jpg

Jump us out of this thread!

well that didnt work ... if some one could gice me a hint on image posting so i can finish my joke before leaving

Modifié par hxx7y, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:44 .

[Waage25]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I misread. Still, Mass Effect.

That second sentence had me laughing. I just imagine a doom sayer. Doom, dooooom, DOOOOOOOOOMMM!!!!!!

Anyway, DA:O, originally made for PC, ported to consoles with a lot of trouble. DA2, both will be built at same time, rather than PC first, in order to not make same mistakes (see PS3 owner and 360 owner complaint threads). Does this limit DA2? I don't see how, they are just making sure that all the wheels and whistles work together in harmony.

ME was the opposite, built for console first, ported to PC, then ME2 was built for both at same time. I'm just glad that the PC is still given attention, as ME wasn't originally planned for PC.

Someone form a doom sayer group, with all the posts being about Doom, gloom, ME and DA teams getting mixed up with job positions, and EA mind controlling the Good Doctors.

ME 2 felt and played like a console port.

Complete with bad Inventory management, dialogue circle, inaccurate shooting, weird button placements, limited camera control and so on.
So if ME2 is your great evidence that we PC people won't get shafted now that they are putting all there efforts into the console version then colour me gloomy about DA2.

The pure fact is that we PC people always get held back by consoles in terms of grafiks and gameplay.
Even after we make a game sell well on the PC we still get shafted by Bioware so they can hunt for the console money.

Modifié par Waage25, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:53 .

[Grommash94]

Waage25 wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I misread. Still, Mass Effect.

That second sentence had me laughing. I just imagine a doom sayer. Doom, dooooom, DOOOOOOOOOMMM!!!!!!

Anyway, DA:O, originally made for PC, ported to consoles with a lot of trouble. DA2, both will be built at same time, rather than PC first, in order to not make same mistakes (see PS3 owner and 360 owner complaint threads). Does this limit DA2? I don't see how, they are just making sure that all the wheels and whistles work together in harmony.

ME was the opposite, built for console first, ported to PC, then ME2 was built for both at same time. I'm just glad that the PC is still given attention, as ME wasn't originally planned for PC.

Someone form a doom sayer group, with all the posts being about Doom, gloom, ME and DA teams getting mixed up with job positions, and EA mind controlling the Good Doctors.

ME 2 felt and played like a console port.

Complete with bad Inventory management, dialogue circle, inaccurate shooting, weird button placements, limited camera control and so on.
So if ME2 is your great evidence that we PC people won't get shafted now that they are putting all there efforts into the console version then colour me gloomy about DA2.

The pure fact is that we PC people always get held back by consoles in terms of grafiks and gameplay.
Even after we make a game sell well on the PC we still get shafted by Bioware so they can hunt for the console money.

They won't change the PC version too much, I am sure. They will radically change the console version though, because, guess what, this time WE got the bad port.

[Waage25]

Grommash94 wrote...

Waage25 wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I misread. Still, Mass Effect.

That second sentence had me laughing. I just imagine a doom sayer. Doom, dooooom, DOOOOOOOOOMMM!!!!!!

Anyway, DA:O, originally made for PC, ported to consoles with a lot of trouble. DA2, both will be built at same time, rather than PC first, in order to not make same mistakes (see PS3 owner and 360 owner complaint threads). Does this limit DA2? I don't see how, they are just making sure that all the wheels and whistles work together in harmony.

ME was the opposite, built for console first, ported to PC, then ME2 was built for both at same time. I'm just glad that the PC is still given attention, as ME wasn't originally planned for PC.

Someone form a doom sayer group, with all the posts being about Doom, gloom, ME and DA teams getting mixed up with job positions, and EA mind controlling the Good Doctors.

ME 2 felt and played like a console port.

Complete with bad Inventory management, dialogue circle, inaccurate shooting, weird button placements, limited camera control and so on.
So if ME2 is your great evidence that we PC people won't get shafted now that they are putting all there efforts into the console version then colour me gloomy about DA2.

The pure fact is that we PC people always get held back by consoles in terms of grafiks and gameplay.
Even after we make a game sell well on the PC we still get shafted by Bioware so they can hunt for the console money.

They won't change the PC version too much, I am sure. They will radically change the console version though, because, guess what, this time WE got the bad port.

Yeah they wont change the PC version a lot other then.

New Dialogue system, no customization, story line, art design, grafiks which they all changed to favour the console version.

Also Buhu you got 1 bad port out of a ton of games where we always get the bad port.

[Daerog]

Waage25 wrote...

ME 2 felt and played like a console port.

Complete with bad Inventory management, dialogue circle, inaccurate shooting, weird button placements, limited camera control and so on.
So if ME2 is your great evidence that we PC people won't get shafted now that they are putting all there efforts into the console version then colour me gloomy about DA2.

The pure fact is that we PC people always get held back by consoles in terms of grafiks and gameplay.
Even after we make a game sell well on the PC we still get shafted by Bioware so they can hunt for the console money.

My great evidence? I didn't say ME2 on PC was great. There is no way I'd know that as I play ME on 360. I play DA on PC. I'm a hybrid, you see. I am born of both PC and Console people. Heh, having dhampir in my name is starting to be funny to me.
Also, the fact that DA was announced for all platforms should have made this whole thing obvious and not surprising. ME wasn't, and I'm just saying I'm glad that they decided to make a PC version so some people aren't left out because they didn't have to, but it did make them more money!
Anyway, good game is a good game. Will it reach its full potential if it was a PC game? Probably not, it would likely reach its full potential if it was designed with the best computer in mind and thus only a handful of people would be able to play it. Not everyone has great computers, I know mine is better than the 360, but I can't expect that to be the same with most.
Nothing wrong with making a game that is accessible to more people, doesn't mean it has to be "dumbed down" or anything, but limiting graphics and whatnot helps more people enjoy BW's games.

[Grommash94]

New dialogue system is tailored to consoles...how?



There is customization. You are jumping the gun there.



David Gaider said the game looks a lot better than in those screenshots.



And you have no evidence that this was done because of the consoles.



And, I also play on the PC a lot, and there are a lot of games ported to the console which are crappy compared to the PC version.

[GreenSoda]

Waage25 wrote...
ME 2 felt and played like a console port.

Complete with bad Inventory management, dialogue circle, inaccurate shooting, weird button placements, limited camera control and so on.
So if ME2 is your great evidence that we PC people won't get shafted now that they are putting all there efforts into the console version then colour me gloomy about DA2.

The pure fact is that we PC people always get held back by consoles in terms of grafiks and gameplay.
Even after we make a game sell well on the PC we still get shafted by Bioware so they can hunt for the console money.

Though, to be fair, ME2 was optimized pretty well -it looked better than ME1 and needed *less* horse power on the PC -of course the interface still reeked of consolitis. What irritated me the most was that they didn't even bother with binding the different status screens to keys on your keyboard. I mean that's what ? A 5 min job ? (Yeah I'm exaggerating...but still).

[ejoslin]

PC players are already going to be hurt by this -- when a PC game is developed for consoles at the same time, the PC game will be no where near as good as it could have been.



With a voiced protagonist, due to space limitations of the xbox, we'll get a lot less companion dialog than we had in DA:O. Since this game will take place over a longer period of time with more companions, I'll be interested to see if they can come anywhere near the depth of character interaction as DA:O had. By design, there will have to be about half of what there was in DA:O.



That is my main concern about both issues, really. Knowing that there will be a voiced protagonist and that we're limited by the xbox360 system specs, it's safe to say that DA2 will be shorter and have less depth to the companions.



I'm sure it will be a good game despite this.



Oh, and I'll admit the only way I actually support any company is by buying products I enjoy. I am not a brand-loyal person and truly, I don't get that mind set at all. So no warm-fuzzies from me!

[Kohaku]

I totally am a brand loyal person, but I will only buy something if I know I want it. However, Final Fantasy 13 and Fallout 3 spun me on my heels. From now on I will wait a good length of time before I buy single player games from Square. Bethesda may never get another dime from me if all their games are going to be the same with ****** poor stories and similar combat across different series. It also has made me think about some of my other purchases from other companies and made me more cautious about what I'll buy in the future.



So far, Atlus hasn't let me down with ANY game I've gotten. Bioware will always be my RPG place of choice. I've only had one game I was lukewarm about from Bioware and that was Mass Effect 2.

[ejoslin]

See, that's the thing. I'll wait on DA2 for at least the initial price drop. I know it will be much shorter with less depth (since space is a limit because of the xbox, with a voiced protagonist, it has to be). That doesn't mean they can't pull it off.



And I'm not slamming console owners. I have an xbox 360. My kids prefer console gaming to PC gaming. But some genres do work better on a PC just as some work better on a console.



But there's a blind brand loyalty here which blows my mind. An implication that if it comes from Bioware, even if it's a huge departure, we should just smile, nod, and be happy (that was a criticism earlier in the thread, that we weren't supporting Bioware). Me, I'll be happy if it's a good game. There are very few games I buy when first released, and unless the reviews are fantastic from people and sites I trust, I can wait.

[DPB]

Disc space isn't a limitation, console games can span multiple discs. I know of at least one game that comes on 4 DVDs.

[GreenSoda]

I doubt the limiting factor is the 360-disc space. Considering that DA2 will have a certain linearity of events to it (you can't play year 10 before you play year 1) -stretching the game over 2DVDs most certainly is not an issue.



The limiting factor has to be the additional cost of the VO'ed PC.



I'm still hoping DA2 will not end up being half as long as DA:O (~roughly ME2 length) but only a little shorter. Perhaps 50 hours worth of content vs. the 60 hours of DA:O ?

[ejoslin]

Hopefully space is not an issue, if they're willing to put it on multiple DVDs. We can hope!

The cost of VO IS a huge issue. If we're lucky, due to the success of DAO they'll have twice the budget for voice actors.  It's possible.

This is the main reason I'll wait to buy. It's why I'm completely nervous about a voiced protagonist -- that by adding that, the amount of other dialog will suffer, and very likely game length as well. The Witcher pulled it off, a voiced protagonist yet still a huge game, so it can be done. OTOH, it was developed for the PC only.

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 juillet 2010 - 01:24 .

[Oldenglishcdr]

MerinTB wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

This is good, isn't it?

No.

No, it's not.

As a PC gamer I am tired of getting the afterthought ******-poor ports.

My rig can run circles around the latest gen console, and my rig is fairly old for a PC.  Why do I have to pull my games down way below what my computer can do.

KotOR forward from BioWare, sans Sonic (blech) and DAO, have been "console" games.  Sure, great console games, but console games.

This isn't a "PC good, console bad" rant - it's a "I own this system, it can do more, why force my games to be of the other lower system's requirements" thing.

The SNES is a fine system.  The Playstation was a new system able to do more with bigger games and better graphics.  Why make a PS game that could run on a SNES?

MerinTB wrote...
As a PC gamer I am tired of getting the afterthought ******-poor ports.

Share a thought for the ******-poor PC ports to PS3 for PS3 owners.

My rig can run circles around the latest gen console, and my rig is
fairly old for a PC.  Why do I have to pull my games down way below
what my computer can do.

Why do I have to play PC ports when the PS3 is fully capable of producing quality software in the right hands.

This isn't a "PC good, console bad" rant - it's a "I own this system,
it can do more, why force my games to be of the other lower system's
requirements" thing.

Why do PS3 owners have to play inferior PC ports when PS3 has proven it has produced some fantastic games when developed first and foremost on console.

Modifié par Oldenglishcdr, 16 juillet 2010 - 01:39 .

[Nerevar-as]

Does aVO earn that much?
The Witcher has only Geralt, but it was dubbed to several languages, so in the end maybe there were more than the 6 voices needed for 3 races characters with no origin tale. The story reasons for human only will fall apart if Templars hard grip over Kirkwall is confirmed.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 16 juillet 2010 - 01:29 .

[Kohaku]

ejoslin wrote...

See, that's the thing. I'll wait on DA2 for at least the initial price drop. I know it will be much shorter with less depth (since space is a limit because of the xbox, with a voiced protagonist, it has to be). That doesn't mean they can't pull it off.

And I'm not slamming console owners. I have an xbox 360. My kids prefer console gaming to PC gaming. But some genres do work better on a PC just as some work better on a console.

But there's a blind brand loyalty here which blows my mind. An implication that if it comes from Bioware, even if it's a huge departure, we should just smile, nod, and be happy (that was a criticism earlier in the thread, that we weren't supporting Bioware). Me, I'll be happy if it's a good game. There are very few games I buy when first released, and unless the reviews are fantastic from people and sites I trust, I can wait.

You are absolutely right. I said this somewhere else but I don't understand why some people here seem to think that people don't have convictions of their own. I would never want someone to buy something they didn't want. That would be a horrible waste of money. If people aren’t liking the way DA2 is shaping up, it’s their right to voice it and why, same with the other side of the spectrum.

My friends suggest games to me because they think I might like it, they know me better than anyone else. They know I’m fickle, they know I don’t play shooters or things like it. If I look up information and don't like what I see, I say it. They don't try to force their thinking on me but it seem some people here try to, both sides of the camp.

[Nighteye2]

[quote]Rubbish Hero wrote...
[quote]Rubbish Hero wrote...
Ray Muzyka wrote... We Learned the
hard way in Dragon Age: Origins how
hard it is to work initially on the PC and then convert the game to back
console. In the case of Dragon Age II we're doing all versions
simultaneously (pc, 360 and ps3) but we're definitely ensuring the
features we put in work well on consoles as well as pc. The pc, because
it's typically much easier to covert them back to the pc. [/quote]
[/quote]
What does he mean by back? Built for console them back-wards to pc build? Someone explain what he means please.
[/quote]

He means that Dragon Age 2 has now been infected with Consolitis. Whether or not it's a terminal case remains to be seen. However, great features that only work well on a PC will be removed from the game because of the consoles, making the PC version a lesser game than it could have been. Which is a terrible, terrible waste...

[ejoslin]

One of the reasons given for lack of character depth in awakening were budgetary. Voice acting does add a lot of expense, yes.



The Witcher was fully voiced, not only Geralt but all the NPCs as well.



I actually am not against human only. It was fun playing other origins, but if it only makes sense for a human to be Hawke, ok. The dialog wheel -- meh. I'm hoping they're able to pull it off as the writers ARE good. That seems to me to be a console thing, though. Small text is hard to read on a high definition TV across the room.



Console games SHOULD play differently from PC games. I can't imagine an RTS on a console, and RPGs apparently will change quite a bit as well (I prefer DA:O's style, but I can see why a console owner would prefer ME's style).



Anyway, I'm not out of my mind excited about DA2, but nor am I very upset. When it comes down to it, it's only a game. And if it's a good game, I'll buy it. And if it gets meh reviews (or reviews from sites I trust saying things like, "Good but disappointing," or "very different, but still fun,") I'll wait for the price to drop. And if it's panned, then, well, I'll wait for the price to drop to the bargain prices.



I'm in no hurry. I have a lot of games to play in the interim.

[Lord Gremlin]

Op is incredibly stupid. He quoted a direct statement that console and PC versions are developed simultaneously. Therefore, they all will be equally good (graphics aside).



Mind you, in console versions of DAO several issues are present that were caused not by some platform-specific feature, but by a laziness of Edge of Reality. For example, unselectable pets. If they wanted they could even implement top-down view on consoles, there are quite a number of console strategy games. But console versions were ports and Edge of Reality didn't want to bother. Now finally no version will be mangled.

[ejoslin]

Back in the day (*grin*) and to this day, actually, I have always owned consoles AND a PC. I never expected my NES to play sega games or either to play PC games. I had more than one console because I wanted to play a wide variety of games.

Consoles were actually more expensive back then, and games definitely were, if you count in the cost of inflation.

However, I was able to get the best games available for whatever platform without suffering the limits of other platforms. Console games that are designed for the particular console are going to be superior on that platform. Ports, not so much so. This is why both xbox and PS3 have exclusive games. And if I want to play those games, I will play them on the platform for which they're designed.

Designing games for console and PC... the game will suffer on all three platforms.

The only upside to all this that I can see is I don't think I'll have to upgrade my gaming rig this year. I was going to get a new graphics card and power supply, but I don't think I'll need to. Cheers!

Edit: And this is NOT being elitist.  I own an xbox 360, a wii (yes, there are fun games on the wii that I play with my family) and a gaming PC.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 juillet 2010 - 02:03 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Drag0n-RD wrote...

Never ceases to amaze me how insecure people are about the PC as a gaming platform. I'm a hardcore PC gamer and have been for well over a decade yet this doesn't make me worried in the least. They didn't say it was being built for Consoles then ported. So it's not a port. 

What this likely means is that we will see the exact same control scheme as DA:O for the PC where as the consoles will have a more controller friendly layout.

"PC gamings dead" - Funny how this became popular at the launch of the Playstation One (Heh if anything the PC is a more popular platform now than it ever was)  

As a PC gamer, I'm not worried about PC gaming dying. I'm worried about PC gaming losing what makes it unique, and having the PC's strengths squandered because of the console-centric trend in the industry. If the PC is just getting ported console games, or multiplatform games that have their design hampered by cow-towing to the inferior specifications and control methods of consoles, even in the genres where it has typically held dominion and is naturally better suited for (including WRPGs), then it's not a good omen for the future.