271 réponses à ce sujet

[Narreneth]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

SDNcN wrote...
So you're purposely taking information out of context and engaging in hyperboles yourself in order to convey and start a conversation about what could potentially happen to DA:2 based on scant information and emotional knee-jerk reactions? Great plan.

I'm raising legitimate concerns. I've had a track record with the devs on this kind of thing in the past.

When the devs had said things like "Wait and see how it works in game before offering criticism" to me in the past things did not work out. For example, I had huge issues with the implications of the Lazarus Project in ME2. So I voiced my concerns in the forum and the only dev response was "Wait and see how it's handled before offering criticism." And you know what? It wasn't handled at all in the game; it was completely glossed over and my concerns were 100% accurate.

So, yep, I'm voicing concerns.

kraidy117 wrote...
I do, but this is a diffrent story and being narrated. Would you
rather take non-linear stuff or see your choices finnly matter? None of
your choices in DAO really matterd. IF the game is going to be linear
but our choices matter, would you rather have that? Something to think
about.

I will just go in a corner and get my bioware pom
poms.....

I can't say which I'd prefer until I actually see the outcomes. You're assuming that the payoff for your "decisions mattering" will be good. I am not. I saw how my "decisions mattered" in ME2. If that's their plan for DA2 then, yes, I'd rather have open-world exploration instead.

I'm sorry but I just can't take someone with any form of anime as their forum avatar seriously when they talk about serious concerns with the Lazarus Project in ME:2.

I had a very long post with counterpoints to your OP but I am tired and mistakenly hit the back button on my mouse and lost it.  I may type it again tomorrow.  We'll see.

[Rubbish Hero]

If they player can customer create, hero should be anonymous than "stock" hero. Very off putting with Mass Effect, Female Sherpard feel like a massive fraud.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
I sort of see what you're getting at, but it would seem unlogical to me (and thus my character as well).

Also, please don't imply that I know nothing of role-playing when I go as far as reloading my saves dozens of times in Mass Effect to get the desired responses and conversation flow and have to this day refused to buy Awakening because my Warden died.

The comment wasn't aimed at you specifically. It was aimed at "those whippersnapper gamers who think ME2 is a proper RPG."

And, yeah, the decision to leapfrog all across Thedas may seem illogical from many views, but it is about options. A lot of things are illogical about DAO, but it was built on choice and giving options and I like to have those options. It might not make any sense to travel all the way to Orzammar first and bypass both Redcliffe and the Circle Tower on the way, but it is an option. I like options in my RPG's.

[Narreneth]

In the mean time, see this thread I started earlier today for a brief explanation of how questing works with the narration system:



http://social.biowar...40407/1#3140889



There are a few posts from Mary detailing how they work. There are also posts in other threads from other BioWare team members talking about how they work too. The gist of it is you get sidequests as you get into the gameplay portions. Many last a few years, others are time-sensitive, and still others can be carried over into the next section so you don't miss out on it in a time jump.

[Kalfear]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Round 3! 'A Story in Pieces'
Yeah, this whole mini-article was rather strange. It basically says that the game is told in a narrative style by certain characters and implies that Hawke will be warping around the world and timeline. What's troubling is that Mike Laidlaw repeatedly says that this method allows the focus of the game to be centered around the "action" and "skip the interstitial between key action moments..." Yeah, this is basically saying the game will be broken up into a series of remarkably linear "levels", isn't it? At best it sounds like we can hope for a ME2-style of exploration, which is pretty much trash. Sounds like we won't be able to properly explore places at our leisure because we'll be forced into specific areas to suit the narration.

DAO was linear. If linear means that the story will be more complex and better then what we got in DAO then I welcome the changes.

DA:O wasnt that linear, other then the last 25% of game you were free to do things as you wished.
Even though I have my fav that I feel is the cannon path, I could still do the events in a random order anyways and it would all still work out!

ME2, now that was linear, they only allowed afew missions then a forced one, gew more, anouther forced one, couple more and then the final battle.

Of all of Biowares most recent games, ME1 and DA:O were the most unlinear of then all.

[SDNcN]

Riona45 wrote...

I'm pretty much OK with a lot of the changes you mentioned, but this one point does hit home for me.  Reading about how male Hawke is, not only on the boards but in actual press releases, really gets under my skin sometimes.  Are that many male players turned off by the fact that a game has the option to be female (and therefore the marketing tries to hide it)?  Or is it just the typical "umarked character is male by default" concept at work here?

Males don't identify with women characters as much as they do male characters. Men are in the majority when it comes to people who will buy Dragon Age 2 and thus Marketing targets them more extensively.

[Narreneth]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

If they player can customer create, hero should be anonymous than "stock" hero. Very off putting with Mass Effect, Female Sherpard feel like a massive fraud.

What?  Is that first sentence even English?

That said, I've always used a Female Shepard with the exception of a single ME1 playthrough.  The voice acting is much better for her, and to me, a woman fits the role of Shepard much better.

[Vohodic]

Great Analogy on the GameInformer article: Dragon Age 2 is 'The Shootist' and the Baldur's Gate and old school RPG feel is John Wayne.

[Riona45]

SDNcN wrote...
Well, it will be different at least. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and Origins all suffered from having redundent spells and spells that are just horrible and are never used. The shorter abilites list might actually match up with number spells/abilites players actually used in Origins.

See, this is why I'm not upset about the idea of fewer spells even though I love mages.  I don't see the point in having several "must have" super spells along with a bunch of spells that are regarded as a waste of a point.  Why not pare the list down a bit to what people will actually want to use, or at least, improve some of the ones that are regarded as useless?

[kraidy1117]

Kalfear wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Round 3! 'A Story in Pieces'
Yeah, this whole mini-article was rather strange. It basically says that the game is told in a narrative style by certain characters and implies that Hawke will be warping around the world and timeline. What's troubling is that Mike Laidlaw repeatedly says that this method allows the focus of the game to be centered around the "action" and "skip the interstitial between key action moments..." Yeah, this is basically saying the game will be broken up into a series of remarkably linear "levels", isn't it? At best it sounds like we can hope for a ME2-style of exploration, which is pretty much trash. Sounds like we won't be able to properly explore places at our leisure because we'll be forced into specific areas to suit the narration.

DAO was linear. If linear means that the story will be more complex and better then what we got in DAO then I welcome the changes.

DA:O wasnt that linear, other then the last 25% of game you were free to do things as you wished.
Even though I have my fav that I feel is the cannon path, I could still do the events in a random order anyways and it would all still work out!

ME2, now that was linear, they only allowed afew missions then a forced one, gew more, anouther forced one, couple more and then the final battle.

Of all of Biowares most recent games, ME1 and DA:O were the most unlinear of then all.

LOL wut? ME wasl inear, the only real non-linear in ME was the crappy uncharted levels and Novaria. Look I know you like ME, but don't let fanboyism blind you. Both ME games where the most linear Bioware games out there.

[Rubbish Hero]

kraidy1117 wrote...
LOL wut? ME wasl inear, the only real non-linear in ME was the crappy uncharted levels and Novaria. Look I know you like ME, but don't let fanboyism blind you. Both ME games where the most linear Bioware games out there.

MDK 2 was more linear.

[kraidy1117]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
I sort of see what you're getting at, but it would seem unlogical to me (and thus my character as well).

Also, please don't imply that I know nothing of role-playing when I go as far as reloading my saves dozens of times in Mass Effect to get the desired responses and conversation flow and have to this day refused to buy Awakening because my Warden died.

The comment wasn't aimed at you specifically. It was aimed at "those whippersnapper gamers who think ME2 is a proper RPG."

And, yeah, the decision to leapfrog all across Thedas may seem illogical from many views, but it is about options. A lot of things are illogical about DAO, but it was built on choice and giving options and I like to have those options. It might not make any sense to travel all the way to Orzammar first and bypass both Redcliffe and the Circle Tower on the way, but it is an option. I like options in my RPG's.

Wait so because I prefer ME2 and I was connected more to Shepard, i don't know how to RP, yet I used to love playing D&D and my fav RPG of all time is BG2? I reallly hope that was not at me Mys, I feel insulted if that's the case.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Narreneth wrote...
I'm sorry but I just can't take someone with any form of anime as their forum avatar seriously when they talk about serious concerns with the Lazarus Project in ME:2.

My avatar is from a videogame, which one might think adds to my credit when discussing videogames.
But it's good to prove that I need not take you seriously in the future. If you judge someone by their avatar then I don't know what to say. You have a silly fantasy robot as your avatar, so you must be a total clown. That last sentence was satire; I feel liek I should point that out just in case.

And the Lazarus Project is complete deus ex machina. It's also a big-lipped alligator moment and the way it's handled is completely absurd.
"This is the most ground-breaking medical discovery ever! Now let us never speak of it again. Certainly do not explain it to the person we brought back from the dead; if she has any questions about how she was miraculously raised from the dead then she is quite clearly a silly-nanny."

[kraidy1117]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
LOL wut? ME wasl inear, the only real non-linear in ME was the crappy uncharted levels and Novaria. Look I know you like ME, but don't let fanboyism blind you. Both ME games where the most linear Bioware games out there.

MDK 2 was more linear.

It was not a real RPG game

[wrexingcrew]

SDNcN wrote...
Males don't identify with women characters as much as they do male characters.

As a male, I can tell you pretty definitively: that's bull****.

NKKKK wrote...
Whiner thread is whiny.

wrexingcrew wrote...
If you have a substantive response to Mystranna's points, by all means, go ahead.

[Rubbish Hero]

Males just use sexy woman because it's something better to look at than a beefcake.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

Riona45 wrote...

SDNcN wrote...
Well, it will be different at least. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and Origins all suffered from having redundent spells and spells that are just horrible and are never used. The shorter abilites list might actually match up with number spells/abilites players actually used in Origins.

See, this is why I'm not upset about the idea of fewer spells even though I love mages.  I don't see the point in having several "must have" super spells along with a bunch of spells that are regarded as a waste of a point.  Why not pare the list down a bit to what people will actually want to use, or at least, improve some of the ones that are regarded as useless?

Well all the spells had a use depending on your play style. I don't think the spells need to be cut down, maybe they could work on making better spells or something. But I found most of the spells useful for different things.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Wait so because I prefer ME2 and I was connected more to Shepard, i don't know how to RP, yet I used to love playing D&D and my fav RPG of all time is BG2? I reallly hope that was not at me Mys, I feel insulted if that's the case.

You really had to twist my words to come up with that one. No, it was not directed at you. It was not directed at anyone specifically.

It was a joke mocking ME2 because ME2 was a shooter. And don't try to argue that; even the devs call ME2 a shooter.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:36 .

[Massadonious1]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
"This is the most ground-breaking medical discovery ever! Now let us never speak of it again. Certainly do not explain it to the person we brought back from the dead; if she has any questions about how she was miraculously raised from the dead then she is quite clearly a silly-nanny."

Because the fate of the fictional galaxy hinges on whether a fictional space marine knows how he/she had enough living tissue to work with from "dying" from a decent into a fictional planet with a fictional atmosphere while wearing a fictional spacesuit with fictional properties that could of helped him/her.

[kraidy1117]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Wait so because I prefer ME2 and I was connected more to Shepard, i don't know how to RP, yet I used to love playing D&D and my fav RPG of all time is BG2? I reallly hope that was not at me Mys, I feel insulted if that's the case.

You really had tot wist my words to come up with that one. No, it was not directed at you. It was not directed at anyone specifically.

It was a joke mocking ME2 because ME2 was a shooter. And don't try to argue that; even the devs call ME2 a shooter.

It's a RPG. A Role playing game. You play the role of Shepard, there is choices, you level up, you connect to your squadmates. That's a RPG, not how much crap you carry around or where you can see first.

[Vohodic]

also, lol at the part of the article where they say that the DAO format worked really well, so we are going to change it.... From a development standpoint, I say, WHAT!?!? Good luck ringing in those bitter RPG fans again.

[Vaeliorin]

Riona45 wrote...

SDNcN wrote...
Well, it will be different at least. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and Origins all suffered from having redundent spells and spells that are just horrible and are never used. The shorter abilites list might actually match up with number spells/abilites players actually used in Origins.

See, this is why I'm not upset about the idea of fewer spells even though I love mages.  I don't see the point in having several "must have" super spells along with a bunch of spells that are regarded as a waste of a point.  Why not pare the list down a bit to what people will actually want to use, or at least, improve some of the ones that are regarded as useless?

The problem lies in the question of who determines what spells are worthwhile.  For example, I know nobody likes the spells in the first line of the Spirit school (the Dispel Magic line), but I almost always take them.  I also like Stinging Swarm, another spell that's regularly ignored (because people think the spells that lead up to it are terrible.)

Honestly, the only spell line I wouldn't mind losing is the buff line from Creation (the Heroic Offense/Aura/Defense and Haste line) because I feel most of those spells (all of them except Haste) are terrible.  But I'd rather have them improved instead of removed.

[SDNcN]

wrexingcrew wrote...

As a male, I can tell you pretty definitively: that's bull****.

I noticed you have an avatar from Jade Empire, you know the game with PCs of both genders on the front cover. How well did that game sell again?

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Massadonious1 wrote...
Because the fate of the fictional galaxy hinges on whether a fictional space marine knows how he/she had enough living tissue to work with from "dying" from a decent into a fictional planet with a fictional atmosphere while wearing a fictional spacesuit with fictional properties that could of helped him/her.

This has nothing to do with the fate of the galaxy and everything to do with how the story was told from a technical standpoint. Fiction or not, it was a crappy plot device.

kraidy1117 wrote....

It's a RPG. A Role playing game. You play the role of Shepard, there
is choices, you level up, you connect to your squadmates. That's a RPG,
not how much crap you carry around or where you can see first.

It's a shooter with RPG elements, sure.

[iTomes]

@Mystranna: well i totally agree with you when youre sayin ME2 wasn't an rpg. but you appear to assume that the same mistakes as in ME2 are done in DA2. i really wouldn't bet on that horse.as far as i know the combat system isn't changed at all (at least not on the pc). so i wouldn't worry about that. youre whole ME2 Lazarus project doesn't work here, for ME2 had the problem that your character was carried on, so bio had to find a proper excuse for him being lvl1. you are using the flaws of ME2 against DA2, even if both are totally different games from (as far as i know) 2 totally different devs.