271 réponses à ce sujet

[iTomes]

@Mystranna: well i totally agree with you when youre sayin ME2 wasn't an rpg. but you appear to assume that the same mistakes as in ME2 are done in DA2. i really wouldn't bet on that horse.as far as i know the combat system isn't changed at all (at least not on the pc). so i wouldn't worry about that. youre whole ME2 Lazarus project doesn't work here, for ME2 had the problem that your character was carried on, so bio had to find a proper excuse for him being lvl1. you are using the flaws of ME2 against DA2, even if both are totally different games from (as far as i know) 2 totally different devs.

[wrexingcrew]

SDNcN wrote...
I noticed you have an avatar from Jade Empire, you know the game with PCs of both genders on the front cover. How well did that game sell again?

I noticed you have an avatar from Mass Effect 2...how well did that game sell compared to Dragon Age: Origins again?

[kraidy1117]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...
Because the fate of the fictional galaxy hinges on whether a fictional space marine knows how he/she had enough living tissue to work with from "dying" from a decent into a fictional planet with a fictional atmosphere while wearing a fictional spacesuit with fictional properties that could of helped him/her.

This has nothing to do with the fate of the galaxy and everything to do with how the story was told from a technical standpoint. Fiction or not, it was a crappy plot device.

kraidy1117 wrote....

It's a RPG. A Role playing game. You play the role of Shepard, there
is choices, you level up, you connect to your squadmates. That's a RPG,
not how much crap you carry around or where you can see first.

It's a shooter with RPG elements, sure.

Yes your right, but still some players connected more to Shepard then any other character, I did but that's because I made him my own, evn with the limitations, I still did it. It's hard but worth it in the end. A2 will be an enjoyable game, Bioware games always are.

[Kalfear]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Wait so because I prefer ME2 and I was connected more to Shepard, i don't know how to RP, yet I used to love playing D&D and my fav RPG of all time is BG2? I reallly hope that was not at me Mys, I feel insulted if that's the case.

You really had tot wist my words to come up with that one. No, it was not directed at you. It was not directed at anyone specifically.

It was a joke mocking ME2 because ME2 was a shooter. And don't try to argue that; even the devs call ME2 a shooter.

It's a RPG. A Role playing game. You play the role of Shepard, there is choices, you level up, you connect to your squadmates. That's a RPG, not how much crap you carry around or where you can see first.

Now whose being the bias fangirl
ME2 was a third person shooter with a back story and even the dev have admitted that and stopped claiming it was a RPG!

ME1 and DA:O were a million times the RPG ME2 was and ME1 and DA:O were also ALOT more open and free then the linear path set out for you in ME2.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

iTomes wrote...

@Mystranna: well i totally agree with you when youre sayin ME2 wasn't an rpg. but you appear to assume that the same mistakes as in ME2 are done in DA2. i really wouldn't bet on that horse.as far as i know the combat system isn't changed at all (at least not on the pc). so i wouldn't worry about that. youre whole ME2 Lazarus project doesn't work here, for ME2 had the problem that your character was carried on, so bio had to find a proper excuse for him being lvl1. you are using the flaws of ME2 against DA2, even if both are totally different games from (as far as i know) 2 totally different devs.

I'm only using ME2 as an example to lend credibility to my concerns. I'm sure DA2 will differ quite a bit from ME2, and of course certain specific issues I had with ME2 will not apply directly to DA2.

But they do help my case when I say I have concerns. That said, I trust the DA writing team WAAAAY more than I trust the ME writing team.

[kraidy1117]

wrexingcrew wrote...

SDNcN wrote...
I noticed you have an avatar from Jade Empire, you know the game with PCs of both genders on the front cover. How well did that game sell again?

I noticed you have an avatar from Mass Effect 2...how well did that game sell compared to Dragon Age: Origins again?

fan fights!!!

[Narreneth]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Narreneth wrote...
I'm sorry but I just can't take someone with any form of anime as their forum avatar seriously when they talk about serious concerns with the Lazarus Project in ME:2.

My avatar is from a videogame, which one might think adds to my credit when discussing videogames.
But it's good to prove that I need not take you seriously in the future. If you judge someone by their avatar then I don't know what to say. You have a silly fantasy robot as your avatar, so you must be a total clown. That last sentence was satire; I feel liek I should point that out just in case.

And the Lazarus Project is complete deus ex machina. It's also a big-lipped alligator moment and the way it's handled is completely absurd.
"This is the most ground-breaking medical discovery ever! Now let us never speak of it again. Certainly do not explain it to the person we brought back from the dead; if she has any questions about how she was miraculously raised from the dead then she is quite clearly a silly-nanny."

My point was that anime (cartoons or games, doesn't matter) has the worst plot points out of anything ever created.  I'm fairly sure I could stomach Hannah Montana: The Movie over anything like anime.  So what I was saying was that if you can get into those plots you really can't boast about "I was right about the Lazarus Project all along!" While I tend to agree that the only real reason to kill Shepard and bring her back was because they needed a plot device to get Shepard into the employ of Cerberus, I don't particularly think it was the worst thing ever conceived ever.  

Anyway, seriously going to bed now.  Read the post I linked for you with the explanation of how the questing is going to work with the new narration system.  It clears a few questions I had up.  There's a few BW posts.

[iTomes]

well propably i should explain why ME wasn't an rpg (at least imo): there were no real dialoques.you actually could run through them all skiping everything always only choosing paragon. you didn't have to think what to choose, the game told you. so there were two different sheperds. thats no costumization.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

Vaeliorin wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

SDNcN wrote...
Well, it will be different at least. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and Origins all suffered from having redundent spells and spells that are just horrible and are never used. The shorter abilites list might actually match up with number spells/abilites players actually used in Origins.

See, this is why I'm not upset about the idea of fewer spells even though I love mages.  I don't see the point in having several "must have" super spells along with a bunch of spells that are regarded as a waste of a point.  Why not pare the list down a bit to what people will actually want to use, or at least, improve some of the ones that are regarded as useless?

The problem lies in the question of who determines what spells are worthwhile.  For example, I know nobody likes the spells in the first line of the Spirit school (the Dispel Magic line), but I almost always take them.  I also like Stinging Swarm, another spell that's regularly ignored (because people think the spells that lead up to it are terrible.)

Honestly, the only spell line I wouldn't mind losing is the buff line from Creation (the Heroic Offense/Aura/Defense and Haste line) because I feel most of those spells (all of them except Haste) are terrible.  But I'd rather have them improved instead of removed.

Exactly, it's better to improve on the spells than to have less spells.

[kraidy1117]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

iTomes wrote...

@Mystranna: well i totally agree with you when youre sayin ME2 wasn't an rpg. but you appear to assume that the same mistakes as in ME2 are done in DA2. i really wouldn't bet on that horse.as far as i know the combat system isn't changed at all (at least not on the pc). so i wouldn't worry about that. youre whole ME2 Lazarus project doesn't work here, for ME2 had the problem that your character was carried on, so bio had to find a proper excuse for him being lvl1. you are using the flaws of ME2 against DA2, even if both are totally different games from (as far as i know) 2 totally different devs.

I'm only using ME2 as an example to lend credibility to my concerns. I'm sure DA2 will differ quite a bit from ME2, and of course certain specific issues I had with ME2 will not apply directly to DA2.

But they do help my case when I say I have concerns. That said, I trust the DA writing team WAAAAY more than I trust the ME writing team.

Why the ME writing team does not talk with there fans is beyond me, it's plain stupid.

[Merci357]

SDNcN wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

I'm pretty much OK with a lot of the changes you mentioned, but this one point does hit home for me.  Reading about how male Hawke is, not only on the boards but in actual press releases, really gets under my skin sometimes.  Are that many male players turned off by the fact that a game has the option to be female (and therefore the marketing tries to hide it)?  Or is it just the typical "umarked character is male by default" concept at work here?

Males don't identify with women characters as much as they do male characters. Men are in the majority when it comes to people who will buy Dragon Age 2 and thus Marketing targets them more extensively.

The Alien, Resident Evil or Tomb Raider movies, just to name some, feature strong femals leading characters. And many, many more feature a female lead alongside a male lead, and not always in the typical gender roles. It's 2010, after all.
Honestly, what's so difficult to feature FemHawke alongside MikeHawke - this is an amazing feature that need's to get some attention. Key word is some - I'm sure a lone female hero as advertising icon is some risk, and you won't take risks with a tripple A title. But neglecting the female part on a whole for the male part during the marketing can and will alienate other possible customers. And you won't do that, either.

[kraidy1117]

iTomes wrote...

well propably i should explain why ME wasn't an rpg (at least imo): there were no real dialoques.you actually could run through them all skiping everything always only choosing paragon. you didn't have to think what to choose, the game told you. so there were two different sheperds. thats no costumization.

Yet ME2 had some of the hardest choices I have ever made in games. You mgiht play your game like that, but I don't. I don't metagame.

[Narreneth]

wrexingcrew wrote...

SDNcN wrote...
I noticed you have an avatar from Jade Empire, you know the game with PCs of both genders on the front cover. How well did that game sell again?

I noticed you have an avatar from Mass Effect 2...how well did that game sell compared to Dragon Age: Origins again?

On it's target console (360)?  Approximately 300,000 more units.  I'm unaware of what the PC sales figures are.

It's not fair to compare sales figures because DA:O was developed for PC and sold on three separate platforms. 

ME2 was developed only for 360 and PC.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Yes your right, but still some players connected more to Shepard then any other character, I did but that's because I made him my own, evn with the limitations, I still did it. It's hard but worth it in the end. A2 will be an enjoyable game, Bioware games always are.

I tried to make Shepard my own too. I have a rather thorough backstory for her and all. That said, Shepard is still a set character. BioWare loves to use that excuse when explaining why there are no same-sex romances, for isntance. There are a lot more limits with Shepard than there are for DAO.

And now that concern of limited characterization and role-playing your own character is directly threatened by a set Hawke with a voice. That limits it a LOT.

[wrexingcrew]

kraidy1117 wrote...
fan fights!!!

It is srs bsns, after all.

Narreneth wrote...
On it's target console (360)?  Approximately 300,000 more units.  I'm unaware of what the PC sales figures are.

It's not fair to compare sales figures because DA:O was developed for PC and sold on three separate platforms. 

ME2 was developed only for 360 and PC.

Yes, so it would be unfair to compare figures for one game's target platform...but fair to compare them for another game's target platform. Understood.

[kraidy1117]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Yes your right, but still some players connected more to Shepard then any other character, I did but that's because I made him my own, evn with the limitations, I still did it. It's hard but worth it in the end. A2 will be an enjoyable game, Bioware games always are.

I tried to make Shepard my own too. I have a rather thorough backstory for her and all. That said, Shepard is still a set character. BioWare loves to use that excuse when explaining why there are no same-sex romances, for isntance. There are a lot more limits with Shepard than there are for DAO.

And now that concern of limited characterization and role-playing your own character is directly threatened by a set Hawke with a voice. That limits it a LOT.

It''s not easy, I give you that, but once you do it, it pays off. I have made Joshua shepard my own, it took awhile because of the voice dialog, same with Hawke. I will enjoy playing the game laot until I make the character mine.

[iTomes]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

iTomes wrote...

@Mystranna: well i totally agree with you when youre sayin ME2 wasn't an rpg. but you appear to assume that the same mistakes as in ME2 are done in DA2. i really wouldn't bet on that horse.as far as i know the combat system isn't changed at all (at least not on the pc). so i wouldn't worry about that. youre whole ME2 Lazarus project doesn't work here, for ME2 had the problem that your character was carried on, so bio had to find a proper excuse for him being lvl1. you are using the flaws of ME2 against DA2, even if both are totally different games from (as far as i know) 2 totally different devs.

I'm only using ME2 as an example to lend credibility to my concerns. I'm sure DA2 will differ quite a bit from ME2, and of course certain specific issues I had with ME2 will not apply directly to DA2.

But they do help my case when I say I have concerns. That said, I trust the DA writing team WAAAAY more than I trust the ME writing team.

well the problem could be that we just don't know much about the game. all evil gods know i have some concerns on DA2, too. but i think that the team that made the great DA1 deserves to be trusted about making  DA2. i mean, ME1 already had its problems with the roleplaypart, ME2 made things only more extrem. DA1 never had any problems like ME, so i guess they dont have to make the whole thing as bad as ME2.

Modifié par iTomes, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:54 .

[Massadonious1]

A technical standpoint? You personally know someone who has been resuruected from re-entry into a fictional planet with a fictional atmosphere? Do you know how it should of been done?



Also, it's the future not the present. From a species, hell, from a universe that has learned to build interstellar spaceships and shoot blue bolts of pure matter from their fingertips, I'm pretty sure the current modern day limitations on medical science, and science in general doesn't apply to them. They may very well how to reconstruct and restore someone's personality from a single bone, or even a single cell.



I guess you're cool with Flemeth being brought back from the dead, then. It's completely fantasy and mystical without any hint of applied realism, therefore, they can get away with it.

[iTomes]

kraidy1117 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

well propably i should explain why ME wasn't an rpg (at least imo): there were no real dialoques.you actually could run through them all skiping everything always only choosing paragon. you didn't have to think what to choose, the game told you. so there were two different sheperds. thats no costumization.

Yet ME2 had some of the hardest choices I have ever made in games. You mgiht play your game like that, but I don't. I don't metagame.

uhhmm ok i played ME2, too. i didn't have hard choices but propably im just simple minded or didn't see something i should have seen.. ´could you enlight me? what choices are you talking about?

[ZaroktheImmortal]

Massadonious1 wrote...

A technical standpoint? You personally know someone who has been resuruected from re-entry into a fictional planet with a fictional atmosphere? Do you know how it should of been done?

Also, it's the future not the present. From a species, hell, from a universe that has learned to build interstellar spaceships and shoot blue bolts of pure matter from their fingertips, I'm pretty sure the current modern day limitations on medical science, and science in general doesn't apply to them. They may very well how to reconstruct and restore someone's personality from a single bone, or even a single cell.

I guess you're cool with Flemeth being brought back from the dead, then. It's completely fantasy and mystical without any hint of applied realism, therefore, they can get away with it.

Well they haven't actually said whether Flemeth will be back from the dead as part of the game probably will take place within the first games timeline. Also not everyone would have killed her. And even Morrigan didn't think that destroying her body would truly kill her.

[kraidy1117]

iTomes wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

well propably i should explain why ME wasn't an rpg (at least imo): there were no real dialoques.you actually could run through them all skiping everything always only choosing paragon. you didn't have to think what to choose, the game told you. so there were two different sheperds. thats no costumization.

Yet ME2 had some of the hardest choices I have ever made in games. You mgiht play your game like that, but I don't. I don't metagame.

uhhmm ok i played ME2, too. i didn't have hard choices but propably im just simple minded or didn't see something i should have seen.. ´could you enlight me? what choices are you talking about?

spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!


1: taking David or not
2: Rewriting the Geth or not
3: Keeping the base or not
4: Keeping the Genophage cure or not
5: Killing the Rachni queen or not.

These choices if you don't metagame are very hard. I puty self into Shepard kept thinknig on what would happen iand thinknig of what would happen. I am a Paragade, my moral is like mordins. The system in ME is not perfect and can be better and I hope DA2 system is alot better but till, ME and ME2 had alot of hard choices if you don't metagame.

[Riona45]

Vaeliorin wrote...
The problem lies in the question of who determines what spells are worthwhile.  For example, I know nobody likes the spells in the first line of the Spirit school (the Dispel Magic line), but I almost always take them.  I also like Stinging Swarm, another spell that's regularly ignored (because people think the spells that lead up to it are terrible.)

*psst* I took the shapeshifting line for roleplaying reasons...

Honestly, the only spell line I wouldn't mind losing is the buff line from Creation (the Heroic Offense/Aura/Defense and Haste line) because I feel most of those spells (all of them except Haste) are terrible.  But I'd rather have them improved instead of removed.

I'm not against them being improved.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

kraidy1117 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

well propably i should explain why ME wasn't an rpg (at least imo): there were no real dialoques.you actually could run through them all skiping everything always only choosing paragon. you didn't have to think what to choose, the game told you. so there were two different sheperds. thats no costumization.

Yet ME2 had some of the hardest choices I have ever made in games. You mgiht play your game like that, but I don't. I don't metagame.

uhhmm ok i played ME2, too. i didn't have hard choices but propably im just simple minded or didn't see something i should have seen.. ´could you enlight me? what choices are you talking about?

spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!


1: taking David or not
2: Rewriting the Geth or not
3: Keeping the base or not
4: Keeping the Genophage cure or not
5: Killing the Rachni queen or not.

These choices if you don't metagame are very hard. I puty self into Shepard kept thinknig on what would happen iand thinknig of what would happen. I am a Paragade, my moral is like mordins. The system in ME is not perfect and can be better and I hope DA2 system is alot better but till, ME and ME2 had alot of hard choices if you don't metagame.

Yeah, those choices in Mass Effect had the potential to backfire on you later.

[kraidy1117]

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

well propably i should explain why ME wasn't an rpg (at least imo): there were no real dialoques.you actually could run through them all skiping everything always only choosing paragon. you didn't have to think what to choose, the game told you. so there were two different sheperds. thats no costumization.

Yet ME2 had some of the hardest choices I have ever made in games. You mgiht play your game like that, but I don't. I don't metagame.

uhhmm ok i played ME2, too. i didn't have hard choices but propably im just simple minded or didn't see something i should have seen.. ´could you enlight me? what choices are you talking about?

spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!


1: taking David or not
2: Rewriting the Geth or not
3: Keeping the base or not
4: Keeping the Genophage cure or not
5: Killing the Rachni queen or not.

These choices if you don't metagame are very hard. I puty self into Shepard kept thinknig on what would happen iand thinknig of what would happen. I am a Paragade, my moral is like mordins. The system in ME is not perfect and can be better and I hope DA2 system is alot better but till, ME and ME2 had alot of hard choices if you don't metagame.

Yeah, those choices in Mass Effect had the potential to backfire on you later.

Yup, now if you metagame, you can just go hur hur hur they don't
matter! but if you don't, then the experince is very enjoyable.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:57 .

[kraidy1117]

Aww, I miss Mys now, she is fun to argue with because she always brings good points.