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Deciphering the "Dev-speak": An Inquisitve Realist's Look at DA2


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#126
DPB

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Lord_Saulot wrote...

Amyntas wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Depth VS breadth just sounds like code to make it more manageable on  consoles (which is the lead platform). Expect 5 skills with simple  leveling perks like Mass Effect, for maximum control pad efficiency.


That is not true. That is just your speculation.


Bioware said in the GI article that they found it hard to port from the PC to consoles and that it is easier to port from consoles to PC because the PC is more flexible. So it makes sense to assume that they developed DA2 for the consoles first. I don't like it either, but he seems to be right.


Didn't the same quote, just before that part, say they were developing simultaneously?


Yes, it did. There's also a section of that same article which conveniently gets ignored whenever someone brings this up, about how they're making the PC and console versions more different, instead of compromising either version.

#127
Brockololly

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Lord_Saulot wrote...

Amyntas wrote...

Bioware said in the GI article that they found it hard to port from the PC to consoles and that it is easier to port from consoles to PC because the PC is more flexible. So it makes sense to assume that they developed DA2 for the consoles first. I don't like it either, but he seems to be right.


Didn't the same quote, just before that part, say they were developing simultaneously?


I just find it hard to believe that budget wise they'd be able to develop 2 entirely seperate versions of not only the combat systems but also integrating PC-centric or console-centric features. BioWare also "simultaneously" developed the PC version of ME2- yet it was clearly made with the consoles in mind from a design perspective.

The reason this upsets people is that one of the big marketing points prior to the delay of Origins in March 09 was that DA was return to the BG, NWN PC roots of BioWare. From the comments in GI, it seems that any big, fundamental changes now being made to DA2 are being made with the consoles in mind and then simply porting those design choices over to the PC. Instead of emphasizing the strengths of the PC as a platform, it would seem they're focusing their efforts on strengthening the consoles but carrying any console minded changes over to the PC, effectively lowering the PC-centric strengths so that everything is on a level playing field.

#128
iTomes

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well the console orientation propably is related to the animations. and the fact that youll (as far as i know) only play your main char (ON the console). don't think they'll change to much. those are not the guys who screwed up roleplaying in ME2.

#129
fchopin

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Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Alrite, let's play:
Decipher the Double-talk!!



I agree with some of your points but we don’t know enough about DA2 so there is no way for us to judge the game.
 
In a few weeks when we know more we should be able to see how the game will develop.
 
On the open world issue this is one thing that must not change, if it does the game will fail.

#130
Tasuru

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Since I have a hard time taking this thread seriously, as I've seen it at least sixteen times on various sites, I will only point out a rather annoying trend with gamers as of late.

Sequel announced
Is it exactly the same as it's predecessor?

Yes                                            No
F***ing rehash ==  []  ==  Ruined another great franchise
                            []
                            V
                This game will suck

In the end it's BioWare, you will buy it, you will like it, and then the cylce will begin again.

I clense myself of these forums until the cylce has broken down sufficently.

#131
Nozybidaj

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

wrexingcrew wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...
That's pretty much how this post makes me feel.


Your image-posting skills will no doubt make her reconsider her well-considered points, spelled out in hundreds of words. That picture of a crying child...that'll teach someone to have a reasonable opinion on the internet.


I can write thousands of words without saying anything, while I can write two sentences while saying more.  This OP bores me as I've read it before, its just the director's cut version.


So basically, you're saying you have nothing of value to offer, gotcha.

On topic, agree with Myst on a lot of things in the OP, though my larger concerns are more on the narrative direction and the decision to basically leave everything we did in the first installment twisting in the wind.  So really I suppose I don't actually have any concerns since this doesn't really look like a game that is for me. 

/shrug  Not a very good run for BW as of late.  DAO was a great game but ME2 was such a huge disappointment and now DA2 is looking like it is going to follow suit.  I'm thinking the 18 month timeframe EA wants BW to shove games out to the market in just isn't enough time with the current technology and budget constraints to do a real top quality RPG.

#132
Rpgsrock

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I love how people are freaking out about change, they changed 2 things! made to be hawke and wheel, and the wheel has to be there if you have hawke.

#133
fchopin

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Tasuru wrote...

Yes                                            No
F***ing rehash ==  []  ==  Ruined another great franchise
                      



Why does the “No” start over the “i”? Should it not start over the “R”?

Modifié par fchopin, 16 juillet 2010 - 02:04 .


#134
Tasuru

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Because I'm lazy.

#135
Nighteye2

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Brockololly wrote...
Instead of emphasizing the strengths of the PC as a platform, it would seem they're focusing their efforts on strengthening the consoles but carrying any console minded changes over to the PC, effectively lowering the PC-centric strengths so that everything is on a level playing field.


This.

#136
Aratham Darksight

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fchopin wrote...

Why does the “No” start over the “i”? Should it not start over the “R”?

I'm pretty sure they're both supposed to be centered, but the forum helpfully removed all the spaces from before "yes".

#137
the_one_54321

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First off I want to say that I'm not trying to convince you to agree with me. (why does everyone always assume that is the purpose of a disagreement anyway?) There are a number of things you say that I take exception to, and being the person that I am, I feel the need to point them out.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Round 1! Don't fix what isn't broken!
In the recent GameInformer article, Greg Zeschuk says that you shouldn't try to fix what's not broken. Why, then, is DA2 such a drastic departure? The article goes on and on about how successful DAO was, and how that proved that fans still like the old-style RPG format. So, again, if you don't want to fix what isn't broken, why are you setting out to do just that? This doesn't make any sense. People liked DAO. BioWare supposedly liked DAO, so why does it seem like I'm going to be playing Mass Effect?

"Drastic departure" is something of a misnomer. Not only do we not know enough about the game to make such a claim, but what we do know about the game does not actually suggest that the game will be terribly different from what it was before. It does present some worrying trends and possibilities, true, but possibilities do not automatically equal departure.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Round 2! Nostalgia gaming.
This can be aimed at BioWare or Joe Juba, though I assume Joe is parroting BioWare's sentiment in order to write an accurate article. Anyways, nostalgia can't hold up a series? Okay, DAO was a tribute to Baldur's Gate. So? People liked it and it sold well. Saying that nostalgia can't hold up the DA series, so it must be radically changed, is completely senseless. Why can't DA2 simply be a follow-up tribute to Dragon Age: Origins and maintain its style? What are you trying to say about today's gaming market by insisting that DA2 must be changed from DAO because DAO was too "nostalgic"? And what the hell is meant by "aging design"? All games have "aging designs", but the thing is that age of design does not alter a game's fun-factor. This whole concept evokes a rather hefty "lolwut".

They're completely right. Nostalgia is not enough to hold up a series. If there was no evolution at all, the wider market would quickly become bored with it and BioWare would stop losing money. While I am not a fan of decisions being made on the bottom line, I am still willing to accept that a company needs to aim to make a profit. The real concern here is the claims of "aging design." DA:O is not even a year old. The only thing that has "aged" on it is the models and animations, which were not at all impressive even when it brand new.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Round 3! 'A Story in Pieces'
Yeah, this whole mini-article was rather strange. It basically says that the game is told in a narrative style by certain characters and implies that Hawke will be warping around the world and timeline. What's troubling is that Mike Laidlaw repeatedly says that this method allows the focus of the game to be centered around the "action" and "skip the interstitial between key action moments..." Yeah, this is basically saying the game will be broken up into a series of remarkably linear "levels", isn't it? At best it sounds like we can hope for a ME2-style of exploration, which is pretty much trash. Sounds like we won't be able to properly explore places at our leisure because we'll be forced into specific areas to suit the narration.

Don't jump to conclusions. Darth Gaider has actually implied that there will be mutliple quests within each story arc, and that there is the potential to leave some of them behind if you advance without completing them. So the story will progress in arcs, and each arc will provide multiple paths. To be honest, that sounds like it could actualy be even more open than DA:O if handled right.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Round 4! LITHE SUPER-NINJA SPARTANS!!!
Apparently combat is being reworked rather thoroughly, or at the very least "redesigned". Mike Laidlaw says he wants the classes to play like "unstoppable juggernaut, a lithe super-ninja, or field artillery."
respectively to warriors, rogues, and mages. And we've all read the "fight like a Spartan!" tagline on the main site. So, I'm hoping those are hyperbole because that sounds dreadful for an RPG. He also goes on about wanting players to get in enemies' faces and cut heads off and making everything feel faster. That also sounds a little extreme. They say we can still play tactically, or "like a general", but is this going to be some stylized, watered-down action game or something?

I don't mind all the SUPERAWESOMEACTION personally, outside the worrisome image it presents of a potential more-action-than-RPG-game. But it has already been specifically said that, on the PC, the basic combat mechanics will remain mostly unchanged. That was enough to asuage most of my fears. I get tactical combat and that's a far cry from an action game.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Round 5! Depth vs. Breadth
This one's straight-forward. They're saying the focus on DA2's combat skills will be on "depth" and not "breadth". Yeah, that's just fancy-speak for saying that we'll have fewer combat abilities. Granted this is countered by them claiming that we will be able to alter or improve our abilities as we go. The example given is the fireball, with claims that it will let you tailor this spell to the way you want it to be. Now, as a realist who has played many games, this sounds like a puffed-up way of saying that you're going to offer spell evolution at fixed points, such as "Reach level 5: Choose if you want your fireball to have a wider AOE or cause more damage!". That doesn't change the spell or gameplay in any specific way. Maybe I'm wrong, but, hey, I'm only being realistic. I don't see this "depth" they're claiming to be very deep.

It has the potential to go either way. Fewer abilities with some customization is not a bad thing in or of itself, though it could quickly become horrible.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Round 6! Sexier Visuals!!!
We've all seen the new art style for DA2. Now, it is claimed that the goal is for people to be able to see a screenshot of DA2 and know right away that what they're looking at is, in fact, DA2. They don't want it to be confused with another fantasy IP like LOTR. Well, you've got that, BioWare, so congrats! The darkspawn grunts look horrid, and I would never dream that they were part of Tolkien's IP. That's personal opinion, though. ;) The real issue here is that claim that these visuals are "sexier" and "bloodier" and more properly convey the essence of DA2. WTF does that mean? XD Seriously, I'm at a genuine loss for this one.

For titling the thread "dev-speak" you really missed a great example of dev-speak right here. It doesn't mean anything. It just means "give me attention, gamers."

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Round 7! Evolution Via Theft!
You want to evolve your games? A good idea is to make them each unique in their own ways by capitalizing on what makes different. Your choice here seems to be "steal things from other popular games we've made bcause they were popular and we can make them work in this time frame before release!" Yeah, we've all heard the jokes that this game is really Dragon Effect 2. And it's true. Much has been borrowed from Mass Effect here, be it the really crappy generic white-dude marketing icon, the dialogue wheel, the voiced PC, etc. I find it odd that you call this an "evolution" of Dragon Age when its really a ripoff of another game you've put out yourselves. It hasn't evolved; it's simply been altered almost entirely into something else.

Eh... the dialog wheel could end up being comepletely different from ME. It's versitile enough. So you can't really call that copying just yet. And a preset voiced character is so wide spread you can hardly call it copying anyone at all. Maybe you can call it copying FFX, since that was the first game to do it with wide spread commercial success. That was.. 9 years ago? 

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Final Round!! HeHawke Strikes Confusion!
I'm only adding this for my own sake, and because this has been going on for 4-5 years now. HeHawke is not a good icon. You've claimed already that sticking to a default icon for advertising is going to "avoid confusion", but that's not the case. This entire article uses the pronoun "he" when referring to Hawke, and the mini-article about customizing Hawke doesn't even mention the gender option. It only says that you can customize appearance and class, which is very confusing when coupled with the exclusive use of the male pronoun. There is only one place where a female Hawke is even alluded to, and that's underneath one of the pictures in a tiny segregated blurb that simply claims that BioWare says you can choose gender. Seriously, BioWare, include some recognition for a female Hawke on your website, in a screenshot, or something. I don't care if Hawke is on the box and jimmied into all the trailers for laziness's sake, but, for the love crikey acknowledge female Hawke's existence somehow!

I appologize, but I long ago stopped feeling any sympathy for this kind of thing. You're on the board reading the news. You're reading the magazine article. You're posting long thoughts and discussion on the game. They don't need to target your for marketing. You're already hooked. As for why you even care that it be woman or a man in the pictures or the interviews or box art or whatever, it's just so meaningless. I honestly think you're choosing to be upset by this when you could just as easily choose to completely ignore it. (when I use "you" here I mean in the general sense, and no you specifically)
And using "he" is the grammatically correct approach. When speaking of a person of unknown/variable gender, the orrect practice is to assme the gender of the speaker. The interviewee is male, and thus he correctly uses "he" when refering to a character of variable gender.

#138
Riona45

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the_one_54321 wrote...
I honestly think you're choosing to be upset by this when you could just as easily choose to completely ignore it. (when I use "you" here I mean in the general sense, and no you specifically)


No, not everyone can, or wants to, "easily choose" to ignore it.

#139
AlanC9

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Brockololly wrote...

The reason this upsets people is that one of the big marketing points prior to the delay of Origins in March 09 was that DA was return to the BG, NWN PC roots of BioWare. From the comments in GI, it seems that any big, fundamental changes now being made to DA2 are being made with the consoles in mind and then simply porting those design choices over to the PC. Instead of emphasizing the strengths of the PC as a platform, it would seem they're focusing their efforts on strengthening the consoles but carrying any console minded changes over to the PC, effectively lowering the PC-centric strengths so that everything is on a level playing field.


What I saw was that they were making changes for the consoles but not carrying over those changes to the PC. They were also making changes that had nothing much to do with consoles on both platforms.

#140
Mystranna Kelteel

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]the_one_54321 wrote...
"Drastic departure" is something of a misnomer. Not only do we not know enough about the game to make such a claim, but what we do know about the game does not actually suggest that the game will be terribly different from what it was before. It does present some worrying trends and possibilities, true, but possibilities do not automatically equal departure.


It is a drastic departure. In DAO we were playing our own character. We made that character; we chose our own background; we added our own inflections and intent to our characters.
Now we are playing BioWare's character and subtly changing BioWare's character's much more defined attitude.
Maybe the "entire game" won't be a completely drastic departure, but the character and the way said character is presented in DA2 is a large departure from DAO. We have less choice, less freedom, and more potential for displeasure in actually role-playing this character.

They're completely right. Nostalgia is not enough to hold up a series. If there was no evolution at all, the wider market would quickly become bored with it and BioWare would stop losing money. While I am not a fan of decisions being made on the bottom line, I am still willing to accept that a company needs to aim to make a profit. The real concern here is the claims of "aging design." DA:O is not even a year old. The only thing that has "aged" on it is the models and animations, which were not at all impressive even when it brand new.


And that's the thing. DAO was not held up by nostalgia alone. A lot of people who love DAO never even played BG or BG2. They liked the style of the game. And, since it sold well, DAO was clearly not in need of a "modern overhaul".

Don't jump to conclusions. Darth Gaider has actually implied that there will be mutliple quests within each story arc, and that there is the potential to leave some of them behind if you advance without completing them. So the story will progress in arcs, and each arc will provide multiple paths. To be honest, that sounds like it could actualy be even more open than DA:O if handled right.


I'm not jumping to conclusions, I'm voicing a concern. I mean, look at ME2. As I said before, that game is comprised of a series of super-linear corridor shooter levels. If you start one, you must finish it. If you finish one, you can not return to it. That's what DA2 sounds like so far.
Take Mordin's clinic level. Yeah, there are a few smattered "sidequests" and you go at your leisure exploring the back alleys of the Omega quarantine area, but you have very little freedom. Is this how DA2 will be? I seriously hope not, but that's exactly how it sounds so far. But I've read Mary and David's "explanations". They do not reassure me that this won't be like ME2.


Eh... the dialog wheel could end up being comepletely different from ME. It's versitile enough. So you can't really call that copying just yet. And a preset voiced character is so wide spread you can hardly call it copying anyone at all. Maybe you can call it copying FFX, since that was the first game to do it with wide spread commercial success. That was.. 9 years ago?


How the heck can it be "completely different"? It's a dialogue wheel with little blurbs that represent the heart of your dialogue lines. The only difference here is that are symbols that supposedly represent intent and tone. That's not completely different. That's almost identical.
And you're being too vague with the "preset voiced character". This isn't Final Fantasy's system. This is Mass Effect's system. BioWare is still offering some choices here and there, though the way things are going I honestly wouldn't be surprised if BioWare simply drops things like gender choice in the future to make games more like Final Fantasy or Gears of War. They're well on their way.


I appologize, but I long ago stopped feeling any sympathy for this kind of thing. You're on the board reading the news. You're reading the magazine article. You're posting long thoughts and discussion on the game. They don't need to target your for marketing. You're already hooked. As for why you even care that it be woman or a man in the pictures or the interviews or box art or whatever, it's just so meaningless. I honestly think you're choosing to be upset by this when you could just as easily choose to completely ignore it. (when I use "you" here I mean in the general sense, and no you specifically)
And using "he" is the grammatically correct approach. When speaking of a person of unknown/variable gender, the orrect practice is to assme the gender of the speaker. The interviewee is male, and thus he correctly uses "he" when refering to a character of variable gender.


See, you have no idea what the issue is. This has virtually nothing to do with me. This is about BioWare improperly advertising their game. This is about BioWare turning the female option into an afterthought by completely ignoring the fanbase that wants to see her. This is about the fact that we never saw a female Shepard until one month before ME's release, and then only because IGN got its hands on the character creator. This is about all those people who won't know that a female Hawke is even possible because BioWare is vomiting out confusing marketing campaigns while at the same time lying through their teeth by saying what they're doing is actually less confusing.

This is about the principle; this is about BioWare being lazy and pissing off and alienating some of their fans with completely ridiculous marketing. You don't care? Fine. Good for you. Some people do, and we certainly don't need your "sympathy". Sure, I may be choosing to be upset by this, but why the hell shouldn't I?

#141
Mystranna Kelteel

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AlanC9 wrote...
What I saw was that they were making changes for the consoles but not carrying over those changes to the PC. They were also making changes that had nothing much to do with consoles on both platforms.


The language of the article largely implies that things are being changed for the sake of the consoles. The combat's "speed" and the "hot-rodding of the visuals" especially.

#142
Wishpig

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soteria wrote...

Wow, what a pretentious thread title. I should have just read the tldr at the end, because it sums up your entire post perfectly. All I see here is a bunch of tired arguments and complaints that have already been posted in several dozen other threads.


Lol well said. I love people who create their own threads because they think THEIR opinion is so diffrent from everyone else's and so much smarter... but in truth 95% of the time their just restating what has been said a hundred other times and brining NOTHING NEW TO THE TABLE.

OP, there is nothing wrong with your views. Feel free to say what you will... just don't think anything you just said is anything new. And please no more threads like this untill you can think of something unique to say... which would be very hard to do considering I think it's all been said by now.

Nothing wrong with adding to threads, just be carefull when creating them.

Modifié par Wishpig, 16 juillet 2010 - 07:05 .


#143
Mystranna Kelteel

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Wishpig wrote...

Lol well said. I love people who create their own threads because they think THEIR opinion is so diffrent from everyone else's and so much smarter... but in truth 95% of the time their just restating what has been said a hundred other times and brining NOTHING NEW TO THE TABLE.

OP, there is nothing wrong with your views. Feel free to say what you will... just don't think anything you just said is anything new. And please no more threads like this untill you can think of something unique to say... which would be very hard to do considering I think it's all been said by now.

Nothing wrong with adding to threads, just be carefull when creating them.


The irony of this post of yours is truly astounding. Move along.

#144
Brockololly

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AlanC9 wrote...

What I saw was that they were making changes for the consoles but not carrying over those changes to the PC. They were also making changes that had nothing much to do with consoles on both platforms.


From the article it seemed as if they explicitly stated the combat would remain distinct on consoles and PC. But then later on Muzyka mentions how they learned with Origins how it was difficult to port from the PC to consoles and how this time around "we're definitely ensuring the features we put in work well on the console as well as the PC, because its typically much easier to convert them back to PC."

I guess you could interpret this a couple ways: 1.) That they're designing major changes with the consoles as the priority and then porting them back to PC unchanged. Or 2.) that they're designing from the ground up with the consoles and then in the process of porting back to PC, adding more PC-centric compatability.

Given how the port of the PC version of ME2 was handled by BioWare, I'm skeptical that they will put in the extra effort to differentiate the PC version with more PC specific accessability once they've ported it over from the consoles. The whole notion of making a console and PC combat system seems like an expensive enough proposition.  Given the realities of most console to PC ports, I have a hard time imagining BioWare putting in extra money and effort to polish up the PC version with PC exclusive features after they have been brought to the PC version from the consoles.

Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but given everything we've heard thus far, I'm skeptical.

#145
the_one_54321

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Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
It is a drastic departure. In DAO we were playing our own character. We made that character; we chose our own background; we added our own inflections and intent to our characters.
Now we are playing BioWare's character and subtly changing BioWare's character's much more defined attitude.
Maybe the "entire game" won't be a completely drastic departure, but the character and the way said character is presented in DA2 is a large departure from DAO. We have less choice, less freedom, and more potential for displeasure in actually role-playing this character.

See this is a misconception that was very thoroughly entrenched around the notion of character creation in DA:O. You have more options in DA:O than you did in ME. That's about it. You never actually craft your own background and to claim that you do is a notion that exists entirely in your head. You have six opening options and a few different attitudes with which to play your character.

This is not a criticism. I thought all of that was awesome. What I'm trying to point out is that to say "Hawke is entirely different from Cousland" is just inaccurate. You have less options in DA][ than in DA:O. I will certainly grant that this really seems to be the case. But it's not as though all options were removed. I would have been much more convinced if you were complaining that VO broke imersion for you and prevented you from connecting to your character. But to say the customization options in the game a drastic departure just isn't right.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
And that's the thing. DAO was not held up by nostalgia alone. A lot of people who love DAO never even played BG or BG2. They liked the style of the game. And, since it sold well, DAO was clearly not in need of a "modern overhaul".

You're right, it certainly was not. Darth Gaider pointed to a great article in another thread that gave a little bit of insight as to why they would make changes. Again, I'm not  a fan of making decisions on the bottom line, but a company has to seek profit if they want to stay a working company. I think that's unfortunate.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
I'm not jumping to conclusions, I'm voicing a concern. I mean, look at ME2. As I said before, that game is comprised of a series of super-linear corridor shooter levels. If you start one, you must finish it. If you finish one, you can not return to it. That's what DA2 sounds like so far.
Take Mordin's clinic level. Yeah, there are a few smattered "sidequests" and you go at your leisure exploring the back alleys of the Omega quarantine area, but you have very little freedom. Is this how DA2 will be? I seriously hope not, but that's exactly how it sounds so far. But I've read Mary and David's "explanations". They do not reassure me that this won't be like ME2.

There's always the potential that a game is done very badly, no matter what style it's done in. I'll just point out that in DA:O none of the levels were really anything except a slightly more open type of liniar. There was a specific beginning and a specific end and you had options along the way. If each of the quests remains this way in DA][ (and I'll grant there's always the chance it wont) then no one should have anything to complain about. So far Darth Gaiders specific comments on quest design lean towards "open quests contained within seperate story arcs" and that doesn't, at its face, sound like a bad implimentation at all.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
How the heck can it be "completely different"? It's a dialogue wheel with little blurbs that represent the heart of your dialogue lines. The only difference here is that are symbols that supposedly represent intent and tone. That's not completely different. That's almost identical.
And you're being too vague with the "preset voiced character". This isn't Final Fantasy's system. This is Mass Effect's system. BioWare is still offering some choices here and there, though the way things are going I honestly wouldn't be surprised if BioWare simply drops things like gender choice in the future to make games more like Final Fantasy or Gears of War. They're well on their way.

You have more options along the lines of DA:O? It's not as hard as it sounds. It just looks different, and you don't get the word for word transcript of what your PC will say. The notion that this is all that different from DA:O is one that I find to be mostly baseless. Again, I would have taken this complaint much better if you had gone the route of saying it prevents you from controlling and conecting to your PC.
The comments on gender choice are completely unrlated to this particular topic point.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
See, you have no idea what the issue is. This has virtually nothing to do with me. This is about BioWare improperly advertising their game. This is about BioWare turning the female option into an afterthought by completely ignoring the fanbase that wants to see her. This is about the fact that we never saw a female Shepard until one month before ME's release, and then only because IGN got its hands on the character creator. This is about all those people who won't know that a female Hawke is even possible because BioWare is vomiting out confusing marketing campaigns while at the same time lying through their teeth by saying what they're doing is actually less confusing.

This is about the principle; this is about BioWare being lazy and pissing off and alienating some of their fans with completely ridiculous marketing. You don't care? Fine. Good for you. Some people do, and we certainly don't need your "sympathy". Sure, I may be choosing to be upset by this, but why the hell shouldn't I?

I can identify with prinicple, but then my question would become: what principle are they violating, exactly? The options to play the female through all the aspects of the game is still there. (assuming that it will be, of course, if not it's a whole different story) It's there for you.
As for the marketing side of things, I for one am willing to give marketing the full benefit of the doubt. Not that I agree with them, but the whole purpose of marketing is to sell as many copies of the game as possible, so the marketing department is going to do its very best to get exposure to as many people in their target demographic as possible. And from that point of view I can deffinitely see where you're coming from. But then in reference to you last question "why the hell shouldn't I" well, because you're not going to do yourself or anyone else any good. But as it's a matter of prinicpal, that may or may not matter at all.

#146
Wishpig

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Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Lol well said. I love people who create their own threads because they think THEIR opinion is so diffrent from everyone else's and so much smarter... but in truth 95% of the time their just restating what has been said a hundred other times and brining NOTHING NEW TO THE TABLE.

OP, there is nothing wrong with your views. Feel free to say what you will... just don't think anything you just said is anything new. And please no more threads like this untill you can think of something unique to say... which would be very hard to do considering I think it's all been said by now.

Nothing wrong with adding to threads, just be carefull when creating them.


The irony of this post of yours is truly astounding. Move along.


Ok explain the irony for me would you? Because I don't see it... I reckon you didn't even read it if you think that. If I created a new thread bashing people like you for creating threads like this. THAT would be irony.

Modifié par Wishpig, 16 juillet 2010 - 07:15 .


#147
Mystranna Kelteel

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This is not a criticism. I thought all of that was awesome. What I'm trying to point out is that to say "Hawke is entirely different from Cousland" is just inaccurate. You have less options in DA][ than in DA:O. I will certainly grant that this really seems to be the case. But it's not as though all options were removed. I would have been much more convinced if you were complaining that VO broke imersion for you and prevented you from connecting to your character. But to say the customization options in the game a drastic departure just isn't right.


I am complaining that it disconnects me from my character. That was part of my point, though not all of it. That's unavoidable in DA2 because Hawke is really not my character. All the dialogue is spelled out with a specific VA's inflection and tone. I can't make a line sarcastic if the delivery is clearly not sarcastic. I can't say that my character is reading this line with anger or contempt when the VA is nonchalant and monotone. You may think it's superficial, but having a voiced character and a dialogue wheel is quite a change. It is a drastic departure.

So far Darth Gaiders specific comments on quest design lean towards "open quests contained within seperate story arcs" and that doesn't, at its face, sound like a bad implimentation at all.


Sounds like ME2. I will argue that it does sound like a bad implementation. May change with more information, may not.

You have more options along the lines of DA:O? It's not as hard as it sounds. It just looks different, and you don't get the word for word transcript of what your PC will say. The notion that this is all that different from DA:O is one that I find to be mostly baseless. Again, I would have taken this complaint much better if you had gone the route of saying it prevents you from controlling and conecting to your PC.
The comments on gender choice are completely unrlated to this particular topic point.


See above.

As for the marketing side of things, I for one am willing to give marketing the full benefit of the doubt. Not that I agree with them, but the whole purpose of marketing is to sell as many copies of the game as possible, so the marketing department is going to do its very best to get exposure to as many people in their target demographic as possible. And from that point of view I can deffinitely see where you're coming from. But then in reference to you last question "why the hell shouldn't I" well, because you're not going to do yourself or anyone else any good. But as it's a matter of prinicpal, that may or may not matter at all.


I gave the marketing for ME the benefit of the doubt. It's atrocious, and I highly doubt anyone can actually prove that Sheploo's ugly mug made it sell better than it would have otherwise. In fact, I can actually point out that a lot of people didn't buy ME because they thought Sheploo was the only option. They didn't know a female Shepard was possible because BioWare idiotically ignored her for everything. The option to choose gender wasn't even mentioned on the ME2 website... It's idiotic how far they go with their "icon", and their excuses won't cut it this time.

You can't say that complaining won't do any good. It might, it might not. But, you know what? Saying nothing at all is guaranteed not to do anyone any good.

#148
Mystranna Kelteel

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Wishpig wrote...
Ok explain the irony for me would you? Because I don't see it... I reckon you didn't even read it if you think that. If I created a new thread bashing people like you for creating threads like this. THAT would be irony.


The irony is that you accuse me of adding nothing new and saying nothing unique, yet your post is completely meaningless and trite.

And I'm quite sure you only read like three posts of this topic before you decided to "lolagree" with someone calling me pretentious.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 16 juillet 2010 - 07:27 .


#149
Paromlin

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Countdown to Mystranna Kelteel going Katy Bates on Bioware, like in Misery.  Lol :wizard:

No, seriously, I agree with several points made by the OP. I'm especially worried about the possible linearity of DA2; I really want to be able to explore various places at any given time, using the world map.

And combat. I am glad they want to introduce combos for talents. I'm not sure what they mean by super fast. DAO combat needs a lot of improvements, so I'm glad they'll change it (somehow). In what direction.. that's the real question. Even if they change it in the right direction, but leave level scaling in, it will be all for nothing sadly. :(

#150
Wishpig

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Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Wishpig wrote...
Ok explain the irony for me would you? Because I don't see it... I reckon you didn't even read it if you think that. If I created a new thread bashing people like you for creating threads like this. THAT would be irony.


The irony is that you accuse me of adding nothing new and saying nothing unique, yet your post is completely meaningless and trite.

And I'm quite sure you only read like three posts of this topic before you decided to "lolagree" with someone calling me pretentious.


Actually I always make sure to read the first two pages and the last two pages before I post ;)

No I am not saying anything new and unique... and I'm not creating a thread to say it. Which is the point. Just hoping to help keep the countless threads like this one at bay. Perhaps a useless attempt but, mah, I try. There are good points out there... but creation of threads like these keep them spread apart or cause them to get buried by OTHER threads. It's a major problem on populated and busy forums like these.

Modifié par Wishpig, 16 juillet 2010 - 07:32 .