248 réponses à ce sujet

[OriginsIsBest]

iTomes wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...

If Flemeth was an old god how come she didnt die when you killed her. Would your taint not of killed her like an archdemon?

dang this annoys me I wanna know what she is.

she simply could be a powerfull shapeshifter...but honestly.... who believes THAT?

I do, explains why she wants a god child doesnt it? so she could invade the golden city or whatever she wants to do with an old god. I think she is in the dragon cult and worships the old gods.

I mean look at her eyes then look at kolgrims.
AND for the first time ever Morrigan did not want to fight! Kolgrim in the temple.

her soul would of transfered into the warden when you killed her .... then bang!

[Grommash94]

OriginsIsBest wrote...

iTomes wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...

If Flemeth was an old god how come she didnt die when you killed her. Would your taint not of killed her like an archdemon?

dang this annoys me I wanna know what she is.

she simply could be a powerfull shapeshifter...but honestly.... who believes THAT?

I do, explains why she wants a god child doesnt it? so she could invade the golden city or whatever she wants to do with an old god. I think she is in the dragon cult and worships the old gods.

I mean look at her eyes then look at kolgrims.
AND for the first time ever Morrigan did not want to fight! Kolgrim in the temple.

her soul would of transfered into the warden when you killed her .... then bang!

I admit, the dragon cult theory does make sense.

[OriginsIsBest]

SirShreK wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...

iTomes wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...

If Flemeth was an old god how come she didnt die when you killed her. Would your taint not of killed her like an archdemon?

dang this annoys me I wanna know what she is.

she simply could be a powerfull shapeshifter...but honestly.... who believes THAT?

I do, explains why she wants a god child doesnt it? so she could invade the golden city or whatever she wants to do with an old god. I think she is in the dragon cult and worships the old gods.

I mean look at her eyes then look at kolgrims.
AND for the first time ever Morrigan did not want to fight! Kolgrim in the temple.

her soul would of transfered into the warden when you killed her .... then bang!

Ok. I did not want to asnwer that but you got me piqued. The auto-soul-transfer to Wardens? it only works for the TAINTED old-gods. So if Flemeth is an Old God AT ALL, it would not apply to her. Perhaps she can transfer it to only FEMALES in a ritualistic manner, otherwise being forced into the fade for uncertain amount of time on being killed. Speculation obviously.

Yes well .... my money is on the dragon cult.

[Grommash94]

Hmm, that just reminded me, if Flemeth is an Old God, then why would she think that the Blight would defeat even her?

She does say that if it isn't stopped, all would fall, including her, or something of the sort of Morrigan. If she was an Old God, and an awake Old God at that, surely she wouldn't fear the darkspawn?

The clues just seem to really point that Flemeth is unique, as there is obviously something more than a REGULAR demon inside her, but I also think an Old God would have to be very powerful to teach the TI all about magic. 

Modifié par Grommash94, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:40 .

[OriginsIsBest]

Grommash94 wrote...

Hmm, that just reminded me, if Flemeth is an Old God, then why would she think that the Blight would defeat even her?

She does say that if it isn't stopped, all would fall, including her, or something of the sort of Morrigan. If she was an Old God, and an awake Old God at that, surely she wouldn't fear the darkspawn?

The clues just seem to really point that Flemeth is unique, as there is obviously something more than a REGULAR demon inside her, but I also think an Old God would have to be very powerful to teach the TI all about magic. 

I think she was telling a porky. I mean she needed a reason for Morrigan to go with the wardens? also explains why there was no darkspawn there.

[Grommash94]

SirShreK wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Hmm, that just reminded me, if Flemeth is an Old God, then why would she think that the Blight would defeat even her?

She does say that if it isn't stopped, all would fall, including her, or something of the sort of Morrigan. If she was an Old God, and an awake Old God at that, surely she wouldn't fear the darkspawn?

Good observation. She is fact IS NOT AFRAID of the darkspawn. She PWNs them while rescuing the Wardens from the tower of Ishal. She lives in the Korcari wilds, not a stone's throw from where the Darkspawn are flourishing. The entire "Stop the blight to save the world" ploy of her seems to be a means to get the God Baby from the Warden.

Hmm. Maybe she fears Urthemiel? Maybe when an Old God becomes an archdemon they actually become more powerful?

I suppose DA2 will have to shed light upon Flemeth, whatever she may be.

Edit: The more  I think about it, I really do think that is why the Old Gods sent the magisters to the Golden City.They knew that whatever Fade Spirit/Creator/Sandal was there would kick the mages' asses, and make them abominations. An unstoppable force that can only grow larger. And, their main purpose? To awaken the Old Gods by tainting them, and making them more powerful as a result of this. It comes together nicely imo.

Modifié par Grommash94, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:53 .

[OriginsIsBest]

Grommash94 wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Hmm, that just reminded me, if Flemeth is an Old God, then why would she think that the Blight would defeat even her?

She does say that if it isn't stopped, all would fall, including her, or something of the sort of Morrigan. If she was an Old God, and an awake Old God at that, surely she wouldn't fear the darkspawn?

Good observation. She is fact IS NOT AFRAID of the darkspawn. She PWNs them while rescuing the Wardens from the tower of Ishal. She lives in the Korcari wilds, not a stone's throw from where the Darkspawn are flourishing. The entire "Stop the blight to save the world" ploy of her seems to be a means to get the God Baby from the Warden.

Hmm. Maybe she fears Urthemiel? Maybe when an Old God becomes an archdemon they actually become more powerful?

I suppose DA2 will have to shed light upon Flemeth, whatever she may be.

and even then I doubt that we know what she is even then.

[Risax]

Grommash94 wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Hmm, that just reminded me, if Flemeth is an Old God, then why would she think that the Blight would defeat even her?

She does say that if it isn't stopped, all would fall, including her, or something of the sort of Morrigan. If she was an Old God, and an awake Old God at that, surely she wouldn't fear the darkspawn?

Good observation. She is fact IS NOT AFRAID of the darkspawn. She PWNs them while rescuing the Wardens from the tower of Ishal. She lives in the Korcari wilds, not a stone's throw from where the Darkspawn are flourishing. The entire "Stop the blight to save the world" ploy of her seems to be a means to get the God Baby from the Warden.

Hmm. Maybe she fears Urthemiel? Maybe when an Old God becomes an archdemon they actually become more powerful?

I suppose DA2 will have to shed light upon Flemeth, whatever she may be.

Edit: The more  I think about it, I really do think that is why the Old Gods sent the magisters to the Golden City.They knew that whatever Fade Spirit/Creator/Sandal was there would kick the mages' asses, and make them abominations. An unstoppable force that can only grow larger. And, their main purpose? To awaken the Old Gods by tainting them, and making them more powerful as a result of this. It comes together nicely imo.

Yeah, you don't f**k with Sandal.
But seriously the Fen'Heral theory you mentioned (and I did on some other threads) makes the most sense to me.In the mage Origin story it is mentioned by a spirit that if you believe that something excist in the Fade it will.
So if Fen'Heral sealed away the rest of the Elven gods and they would have been forgotten, would they stop excisting? Did thath make sense?

[Risax]

SirShreK wrote...

Risax wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Hmm, that just reminded me, if Flemeth is an Old God, then why would she think that the Blight would defeat even her?

She does say that if it isn't stopped, all would fall, including her, or something of the sort of Morrigan. If she was an Old God, and an awake Old God at that, surely she wouldn't fear the darkspawn?

Good observation. She is fact IS NOT AFRAID of the darkspawn. She PWNs them while rescuing the Wardens from the tower of Ishal. She lives in the Korcari wilds, not a stone's throw from where the Darkspawn are flourishing. The entire "Stop the blight to save the world" ploy of her seems to be a means to get the God Baby from the Warden.

Hmm. Maybe she fears Urthemiel? Maybe when an Old God becomes an archdemon they actually become more powerful?

I suppose DA2 will have to shed light upon Flemeth, whatever she may be.

Edit: The more  I think about it, I really do think that is why the Old Gods sent the magisters to the Golden City.They knew that whatever Fade Spirit/Creator/Sandal was there would kick the mages' asses, and make them abominations. An unstoppable force that can only grow larger. And, their main purpose? To awaken the Old Gods by tainting them, and making them more powerful as a result of this. It comes together nicely imo.

Yeah, you don't f**k with Sandal.
But seriously the Fen'Heral theory you mentioned (and I did on some other threads) makes the most sense to me.In the mage Origin story it is mentioned by a spirit that if you believe that something excist in the Fade it will.
So if Fen'Heral sealed away the rest of the Elven gods and they would have been forgotten, would they stop excisting? Did thath make sense?

That is my interpretation too, IFF the thing ceasing to exist belongs to the fade in the first place. The Maker want everybody to sing the Chant of Light. When this will happen everyone will forget their original gods (who are perhaps Fade spirits) and depower/ destry them. I think I said that in "A new theory about the DA universe" post.

Yes you did post it on the "A new theory about the DA universe" but no one has posted anything on that thread for 4 or 5 days, so I thought i posted it here

[Grommash94]

Problem is we don't know to what extent the whole 'if you believe in it, it will exist' thing goes. Perhaps with weapons, environments...but maybe entire entities takes a lot more.



It would make sense that if you stop believing in a weapon you use, it just disappears. I am not sure about things that already exist, though.

[Risax]

Grommash94 wrote...

Problem is we don't know to what extent the whole 'if you believe in it, it will exist' thing goes. Perhaps with weapons, environments...but maybe entire entities takes a lot more.

It would make sense that if you stop believing in a weapon you use, it just disappears. I am not sure about things that already exist, though.

True true...
But wasn't it mentioned that these so called 'Gods' are just spirits who gained more power thanks to the worship of many people?
But yeah if they could outright dissapear I dunno.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Just got messaged by SirShrek, had a look at this topic and his previous one and wrote this back in response:

---

How very peculiar, I just finished reading that topic, was just starting to write my response. I find it curious how you guys are the first to basically come to the same conclusions as I, with Flemeth being an Old God and the purpose of the Dark Ritual basically being to create a small army/group capable of entering and conquering the Golden/Black City.

As for the exact nature of the Old Gods themselves, Gaider and co can basically still go any way with them they want. Though I at first imagined the slumbering Old Gods as basically these spherical spirity things, Awakening did indeed imply that they were dragons already (the Architect wished to make a disciple out of Uthermiel).

If the Maker is real, then the Old Gods are simply put to sleep by it because they defied Him. However, if Andraste would indeed be an Old God reborn, I would not be surprised if she as a "human" created/seized the Black City herself and actually is the being we know as the Maker. Arlathan being the Black/Gold City is more likely, though. The map of Thedas says it is merely a forest, though, yes you seemed to imply it was in the middle of the 'whirlpool' in Tevinter.

"It was then that Dumat was finally slain and the First Blight ended.

The Tevinter Imperium would face a new challenge with the coming of the prophet Andraste,"

There might be some meaning to Andraste coming right after the first Archdemon there. More likely than not a coincidence, though.
http://dragonage.wik...iki/Codex_Entry:_The_First_Blight,_Chapter_4

The reason why the Darkspawn hear the calling/song of the Old God should be obvious if the Canticles of the Chantry are to be believed, given the role the Old Gods in the rise of the Tevinter mages and the creation of the Darkspawn. Whether or not they intentionally call the Darkspawn is up to interpretation.

Now, if the Forgotten Elven Gods actually are the Old Gods, things would get interesting. At once the immortality of both the Elvhen (ye olde elves) and the Tevinter mages would be explained (probably some sort of blood magic).

I don't see what all this has to do with retconning, though. I still wonder what the hell Gaider will do the Dark Ritual, though. It's already bad enough that I had to miss out on Awakening. So much for being a hero...

--- 

So far for half an hour of wild mass guessing.

[Risax]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Just got messaged by SirShrek, had a look at this topic and his previous one and wrote this back in response:

---

How very peculiar, I just finished reading that topic, was just starting to write my response. I find it curious how you guys are the first to basically come to the same conclusions as I, with Flemeth being an Old God and the purpose of the Dark Ritual basically being to create a small army/group capable of entering and conquering the Golden/Black City.

As for the exact nature of the Old Gods themselves, Gaider and co can basically still go any way with them they want. Though I at first imagined the slumbering Old Gods as basically these spherical spirity things, Awakening did indeed imply that they were dragons already (the Architect wished to make a disciple out of Uthermiel).

If the Maker is real, then the Old Gods are simply put to sleep by it because they defied Him. However, if Andraste would indeed be an Old God reborn, I would not be surprised if she as a "human" created/seized the Black City herself and actually is the being we know as the Maker. Arlathan being the Black/Gold City is more likely, though. The map of Thedas says it is merely a forest, though, yes you seemed to imply it was in the middle of the 'whirlpool' in Tevinter.

"It was then that Dumat was finally slain and the First Blight ended.

The Tevinter Imperium would face a new challenge with the coming of the prophet Andraste,"

There might be some meaning to Andraste coming right after the first Archdemon there. More likely than not a coincidence, though.
http://dragonage.wik...iki/Codex_Entry:_The_First_Blight,_Chapter_4

The reason why the Darkspawn hear the calling/song of the Old God should be obvious if the Canticles of the Chantry are to be believed, given the role the Old Gods in the rise of the Tevinter mages and the creation of the Darkspawn. Whether or not they intentionally call the Darkspawn is up to interpretation.

Now, if the Forgotten Elven Gods actually are the Old Gods, things would get interesting. At once the immortality of both the Elvhen (ye olde elves) and the Tevinter mages would be explained (probably some sort of blood magic).

I don't see what all this has to do with retconning, though. I still wonder what the hell Gaider will do the Dark Ritual, though. It's already bad enough that I had to miss out on Awakening. So much for being a hero...

--- 

So far for half an hour of wild mass guessing.

There are 8 elven gods excluding Fen'Heral who might be the Maker.
But the Evil elven gods could be the Archdemons/Old Gods, or as SirShrek mentioned they could be powerful ancient Elven Elders your Dalish does mention that your peoples magic is kinda similiar to hers. But I think the Old Gods where sealed before the TI came, wait now i am contradicting myself they could still be ancient elves who where sealed in a Dragon form underground...

[Risax]

SirShreK wrote...


About Retconning: Gaider and CO. posses all the rights to Retcon any theory into being, including the OGB alive/dead.

I would like to discuss this: The central plot lines of DA universe are about:

1. Arlathan
2. Blood Magic
3. Elven History and pantheon (fen'harel)
4 A touch of Flemeth/Morrigan.

About Flemeth, several people are discussing Flemeth is more of a title then one person.
I wouldn't be suprised if more then one of her daughters have 'killed' her and took her name as a title, I mean would you mess with a Witch who has hundreds of legends about her, I doubt it.
But still Morrigan says Flemeth isn't dead not really, so it is a possebility whe see Flemeth again in a new body in DA2 or it is Morrigan who took the name as a title.

[Helena Tylena]

One flaw in the Flemeth being part of the Dragon cult theory: the Dragon Cult believe they worship Andraste in the form of a High Dragon. They do not worship the Old Gods.

[iTomes]

well the "flemeth is a title" thing sounds reasonable. especially because the first thing well hear of flemeth in DA2 will be "well, well, what have we here?" sounds familiar??^^

[Risax]

Helena Tylena wrote...

One flaw in the Flemeth being part of the Dragon cult theory: the Dragon Cult believe they worship Andraste in the form of a High Dragon. They do not worship the Old Gods.

Yes, but Brother Genitivi's entries in the Codex imply there where/are other Cults.

[Risax]

iTomes wrote...

well the "flemeth is a title" thing sounds reasonable. especially because the first thing well hear of flemeth in DA2 will be "well, well, what have we here?" sounds familiar??^^

It's the first thing Morrigan says to you when you meet her in DA:O, right?

[iTomes]

exactly. and flemeth more was like "i see them child blahblah dancing in the moonlight *insane laughter*". so i cant imagine that flemeth is the old flemeth in this game. its rather morrigan saying hey im flemeth witch of the wilds. maybe THATS how flemeth is passed on. i mean, flemeth says morrigan saw what flemeth WANTED her to see. morrigans whole edjucation leads to that. i mean shes raised a strong independent woman. if i wanted a vessel i would make her weak and easy to scare and i wouldn't send her on a journey so she gains even more experience...