131 réponses à ce sujet

[LeeMer47]

Maybe Ossian will make the next one. In any event I vote for an oriental-themed project, whoever makes it. Bit tired of touring Europe.

[Knight_Shield]

Read all the comments here..undestand some.Im a player and now helping build a mod.I like the way NWN looks.NWN2 doesnt have the look .I would say if people put together .I would think one thing like someone mentioned earlier is to have any update or hak have to confirm to a certain protocol.So someone could go to that web page and click on what they want.If Im not making sense ignore me and keep gaming. Cheers!

[rogueknight333]

The reason why NWN was such a great modding platform was because it found such a great balance between ease of use on the one hand and power and versatility on the other, providing the perfect toolset for amateur modders who would sometimes be lacking in technical skills and probably always limited in the time they could devote to projects. This is why there is so much reason for pessimism about a successor to it: it was a very delicate balancing act indeed. No matter where you set that balance, not everyone is going to be happy with it, with some wishing for additional complicating features and others wishing it were simpler and easier to learn and use. Finding a perfect compromise, from everyone's point of view, is impossible, and an adequate compromise is difficult. The only way a true successor game could work is if whoever were producing it were willing to make some very hard choices about what to include. If ease of use is not to be fatally compromised, it will have to leave out some features that some builders at least would very much like to have. To take my own case, for one example, I do not see how I could use a toolset that used NWN2-style painted areas rather than NWN's tilesets. The former requires time I simply do not have. But of course I am sure others would be quite upset to be denied the theoretically greater versatility of painted areas.

A possible alternative to ruthlessly cutting out anything likely to be a time-sink might be to come up with new tools to specifically address these ease-of-use issues. With regard to area-building, to continue that example, I suppose it might be possible for someone to come up with some feature that would randomly generate terrain of a certain type according to some parameters the builder entered. The builder could then fine-tune particular sections of the randomly generated area as needed with painting tools rather than having to make the whole thing from scratch. I do not know whether anything like that would really be feasible, though, and it might come with its own complications and problems even if it were.

I also do not think it was an accident that the ultimate modder's game was also a D&D game. While there are certainly plenty of difficulties with the D&D rules, and I do not deny that if necessary one could get by without them, a complex yet ready-made ruleset certainly has its advantages for a builder. Also D&D brings with it "pre-fab" universes like Faerun, with allowance for a DM's extrapolation and adaptation within said universes, and a tradition of module-based play, all of which I think contributes to a helpful environment for modding.

On the other hand, to look at the half-full part of our glass, one of the reason people are so pessimistic about a successor is simply that two games that many hoped would fill that role, NWN2 and DA, turned out to be disappointments on that score. Two points do not make much of a line. Games still routinely include toolsets or game editors of one kind or another, and though most suffer from various deficiencies, there is always a chance someone will eventually hit the jackpot again.

[Lord Sullivan]

rogueknight333 wrote...

The reason why NWN was such a great modding platform was because it found such a great balance between ease of use on the one hand and power and versatility on the other, providing the perfect toolset for amateur modders who would sometimes be lacking in technical skills and probably always limited in the time they could devote to projects. This is why there is so much reason for pessimism about a successor to it: it was a very delicate balancing act indeed. No matter where you set that balance, not everyone is going to be happy with it, with some wishing for additional complicating features and others wishing it were simpler and easier to learn and use. Finding a perfect compromise, from everyone's point of view, is impossible, and an adequate compromise is difficult. The only way a true successor game could work is if whoever were producing it were willing to make some very hard choices about what to include. If ease of use is not to be fatally compromised, it will have to leave out some features that some builders at least would very much like to have. To take my own case, for one example, I do not see how I could use a toolset that used NWN2-style painted areas rather than NWN's tilesets. The former requires time I simply do not have. But of course I am sure others would be quite upset to be denied the theoretically greater versatility of painted areas.

A possible alternative to ruthlessly cutting out anything likely to be a time-sink might be to come up with new tools to specifically address these ease-of-use issues. With regard to area-building, to continue that example, I suppose it might be possible for someone to come up with some feature that would randomly generate terrain of a certain type according to some parameters the builder entered. The builder could then fine-tune particular sections of the randomly generated area as needed with painting tools rather than having to make the whole thing from scratch. I do not know whether anything like that would really be feasible, though, and it might come with its own complications and problems even if it were.

I also do not think it was an accident that the ultimate modder's game was also a D&D game. While there are certainly plenty of difficulties with the D&D rules, and I do not deny that if necessary one could get by without them, a complex yet ready-made ruleset certainly has its advantages for a builder. Also D&D brings with it "pre-fab" universes like Faerun, with allowance for a DM's extrapolation and adaptation within said universes, and a tradition of module-based play, all of which I think contributes to a helpful environment for modding.

On the other hand, to look at the half-full part of our glass, one of the reason people are so pessimistic about a successor is simply that two games that many hoped would fill that role, NWN2 and DA, turned out to be disappointments on that score. Two points do not make much of a line. Games still routinely include toolsets or game editors of one kind or another, and though most suffer from various deficiencies, there is always a chance someone will eventually hit the jackpot again.

Well this is the "Neverwinter Nights" forums exclusivly and mostly filled and visited by "Neverwinter Nights" players, so an expended/updated "Neverwinter Nights" or pseudo "Neverwinter Nights"  would not be frowned apon even if it would be Tileset based still. As for the mechanics, D&D is not a necessity.

[AndarianTD]

rogueknight333 wrote...

The reason why NWN was such a great modding platform was because it found such a great balance between ease of use on the one hand and power and versatility on the other, providing the perfect toolset for amateur modders who would sometimes be lacking in technical skills and probably always limited in the time they could devote to projects...

...for one example, I do not see how I could use a toolset that used NWN2-style painted areas rather than NWN's tilesets. The former requires time I simply do not have. But of course I am sure others would be quite upset to be denied the theoretically greater versatility of painted areas.

A possible alternative to ruthlessly cutting out anything likely to be a time-sink might be to come up with new tools to specifically address these ease-of-use issues.

I agree with a lot of what rogueknight is saying here. I touched on some of it in my previous post on the thread, particularly in my observations about NWN's ease of use, ease of area building, and how these empowered solo modders. I do think it's worth emphasizing my final comment, though:

However, if you're an SP modder who's willing to organize and work in a team to create a high-quality product, then NWN2 or Dragon Age are good environments to work in... The main difficulty to overcome seems to me to be the need for modders to learn to cooperate and coordinate in teams to handle more ambitious projects with more powerful and sophisticated building tools, and Bioware has built that functionality right into the social site to encourage and facilitate it.

Precisely because of its comparative simplicity and ease of use, NWN was and will likely remain the modding environment of choice for beginner or serious solo modders working on significant projects. What I think the increasing complexity of the newer toolsets indicates is a paradigm shift in modding away from solo and towards team-based development. We started to see this shift with NWN2, and it's built into the very design of Dragon Age (for example with the toolset's facilities for checking resources in and out and the Social Site's features for finding available modding talent for teaming). This empowers the serious modder who's willing and able (and as rogueknight points out, has the time) to learn more complex tools and to coordinate with others in designing and developing a project. But it doesn't empower solo or hobbyist modders like rogueknight (and until recently, myself) in the way that NWN did.

I think it's understandable that companies like Bioware would take the route toward more complex and professional development tools emphasizing team collaboration. After all, that's how they build their games. But I think it means that to mod successfully for these newer games will require more serious commitment on the part of people with the time and willingness to develop new skills, including the ability to work and organize effectively in teams. And I know from many years of professional experience that the latter is indeed a skill and not something to be taken for granted. The result for games like DA (as it was the trend for NWN2) will be fewer, possibly shorter, but mostly higher quality mods, typically put out by collaborating groups rather than individuals.

Whether that will work successfully for them remains to be seen, and I think it will depend mostly on whether or not the modding community can adapt effectively to the idea of building in teams. I still think the jury is out on this. But I also think it's important not to judge the newer games by the older standard. It's likely a fool's expectation to think that DA modding, for example, will ever be as extensive as it was for NWN, with thousands of mods to download from the Vault. However the average quality of DA mods will likely be higher, even adjusting for obvious factors such as the better graphics and greater power of the toolset.

The biggest exposure that the newer games have is losing much of the ability to draw new talent into modding in the first place. As I wrote in my previous post,

I can say flatly that if I had had to collaborate with others on my first modding project for NWN, it would never have happened and I would never have become a NWN modder. I didn't know anyone and needed to be drawn into NWN modding as an individual before I could become a member of the community. I suspect this was true for many other builders as well.

Hopefully, NWN will live for a very long time, not only continuing to be a viable modding environment in its own right, but helping to draw new builders into RPG modding -- some of whom may eventually move on to the newer games as well.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 20 juillet 2010 - 12:09 .

[Karvon]

Lord Sullivan wrote...

 As for the mechanics, D&D is not a necessity.

I would disagree with that actually. I have neither the time nor inclination to learn a whole nother set of rules, and have never bothered buying or playing a lot of otherwise popular RGPs, precisely because of that.  The fact that NWN is based on D&D is the primary reason I took it up, and will stick with it, long after today's current fads have disappeared.

I don't begrudge those who wish to expand or change the game to suit their tastes, as that's one of the cool things about what you can do with NWN.  Just don't expect everyone to leap whole-heartedly into your version, if you go too far away from the D&D basics.

I think you'll find more success if whatever variation you create is a shadow of a PNP rule system folks are already familiar with.  Thus, for example, a system built to mimic Traveller for SF, is likely to be better received and played than one with a completely new and unique set of classes, skills and such, but which no one has had any PNP experience with.

My two coppers, your mileage may vary,

Karvon

[Lord Sullivan]

Ok well, let's just say that, as a possible open source project to create a pseudo "NWN" I'm not inclined to have to license(if that is even possible) D&D and have to deal with the owners rules for a free for all open source game platform(which was what I was talking about). But obviously, if ATARI or should a new licensee should arise, were to create a 3rd NWN(or the likes) installment, sure D&D is a good choice.

In my case anyhow, mechanics is not what makes me chose to buy a game nor is it what attracts me to it.

Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 20 juillet 2010 - 01:08 .

[SuperFly_2000]

Yeah..it doesn't have to be D&D but something similar (not WoW:ized) would be nice...



(even Dragon Age uses something that is way to simple and just made to fit into the MMO role..)

[AndarianTD]

Lord Sullivan wrote...

Ok well, let's just say that, as a possible open source project to create a pseudo "NWN" I'm not inclined to have to license(if that is even possible) D&D and have to deal with the owners rules for a free for all open source game platform(which was what I was talking about).

I think this is a major part of the reason why an open-source modding system should not (and arguably, could not) rely on D&D. Even Bioware walked away from the franchise, to instead create something over whose IP they had full control. While I don't pretend to be privy to their reasons I would be extremely surprised if it had nothing to do with the hassles and creative stifling associated with having to satisfy WotC's licensing requirements for D&D.

Speaking personally I don't really care for the D&D system even in terms of game mechanics (leaving aside licensing issues) and would not mind leaving it behind.

[AndarianTD]

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Yeah..it doesn't have to be D&D but something similar (not WoW:ized) would be nice...

A fellow modder once mentioned GURPS to me as a suggestion for this. That's just an idea, but a more generic, flexible and customizable system would, I think, be the way to go.

(even Dragon Age uses something that is way to simple and just made to fit into the MMO role..)

This is likely a matter of taste, but here I don't agree. One of the things I like best about the DA system is its simplicity, and one of the things I most dislike about D&D is that it is (to my mind) overly and unnecessarily complicated.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:26 .

[Snowbug]

Lord Sullivan wrote...



Well, the best advice I can give is, follow your talents and interests. If you have a nack at drawing/painting? then

start parcticing seriously starting today. Find tutorials on the internet. If you have some programming skills? start practicing and look for codes exemples of things you'd like to know how to do. If you have interest in learning 3D modeling? grabe a free or free opensource software solution and start practicing and learning from tutorials on the internet, etc...



Where ever it would be beneficial for you to start as only you know yourself and your skills.



Hope that helps

pkpeachykeen wrote...



If you're interested in learning anything, though, there are plenty of tutorials around for almost anything. Do you have any fields of interest?

I have done some building in the NWN1 toolset (also NWN2 but I got a bit frustrated with it) although I haven't finished anything so far. I'm currently building two modules, one small and silly (which I only started a few days ago) and one bigger and more complicated and partially still way beyond my current skills.



I find scripting quite fun, but I have not yet scripted anything terribly complicated. I'd say that is one of those things that are easy for me to warp my mind around, though.



I've done some 3d modeling in the past, but only quite simple inorganic items.



What I am primarily though, is a writer. That was the whole reason I started messing around with the NWN toolset in the first place, because I was interested in it as a different kind of story-telling medium. And this is also why this whole project is of much interest to me, because I see in it the opportunity to create a world that is my own creation instead of being somewhat tied to the D&D system.

[KooKoo88]

I like D&D actually.  Even if it's sometimes complicated, it's fun.  While it is not perfect or maybe even the best system, it is well known and accepted, making it ideal for a game.
The problem is that the rules keep changing and older versions aren't supported. Ideally (By that I mean I know it won't happen) older versions of D&D would be turned over as a public domain copyright for all to use and profit off of as they would. (We're on forums for a fantasy game, so indulge my fantasy. )
As far as the game engine.  It needs to be simple for individuals to make stuff up in their own time.  Getting groups to collaborate and spends 100s of hours to create free modules which inevitably create extra profit for the gamemaker seems a bit fishy to me.
Neverwinter Nights seemed more spontaneous.  It was like someone said "What, you want the toolset too?  Hmmm, what the heck, here you go."  I feel that the builders were supported for a long time too.
I never would have made a module in any other toolset.  I've looked at DA and it's too much work.  Morrowind and Oblivion were too confusing.  It's not that they're bad, it's that I am a complete amateur and just wanted to have fun.  NWN gave that to me.
As far as teams over individuals . . . well . . . There are quite a few NWN modules created by individuals that are better than many, many professionally produced million dollar games produced by teams these days.   The graphics aren't as good, but the stories are absolutely riveting.
Even though I'm retired from building, I still open up the toolset now and then because it's just fun.
Good gaming.

[pkpeachykeen]

As for as the whole D&D vs not debate goes, to sort out any possible copyright issues, especially things that could kill the engine project, dunniteowl and myself are both leaning toward using a homebrew system of his creation and allowing modders to add other systems as they wish. The engine would ship with one or two default rule-bases, and any builder feeling comfortable with scripts or needing to tweak things could add or replace what they need. All the rules will be scripted, though, with hooks triggering them (very similar to the OnDeath, OnUsed, etc of NWN's scripting system).
It is very likely some enterprising builder will create a set of D&D rules on this new engine. Obviously there's nothing we, as the engine creators, can do to stop that. It would, however, be the builder's responsibility to make sure they didn't violate copyright in using NWN resources or D&D rules.
Just for safety's sake, though, we won't be including anything from NWN, NWN2, or DA:O in the base engine, neither resources nor rules. It will be possible to add anything you'd like.

As far as my personal opinion on rules... I don't mind D&D for a lot of things. I've played the original, first-edition D&D, second-edition, v3 and 3.5. I like the latter two better than the originals, some things are more logical (like armor, higher armor is supposed to be better, not worse!). They do begin to become cluttered. I've also played d20 modern and have a passing familiarity with the Warhammer and WH40K rules.

I think the thing to remember, whether it's about the engine, the rules, the features, or the graphics: everybody got something right, nobody got everything right. What we need to do is figure out what all those somethings were and make as many of them possible as we can. Using that strategy, we can get as much right as possible. Hopefully that'll put us a step ahead of most of the (few) modern RPGs.

Snowbug wrote...

I have done some building in the NWN1 toolset (also NWN2 but I got a bit frustrated with it) although I haven't finished anything so far. I'm currently building two modules, one small and silly (which I only started a few days ago) and one bigger and more complicated and partially still way beyond my current skills.

I find scripting quite fun, but I have not yet scripted anything terribly complicated. I'd say that is one of those things that are easy for me to warp my mind around, though.

I've done some 3d modeling in the past, but only quite simple inorganic items.

What I am primarily though, is a writer. That was the whole reason I started messing around with the NWN toolset in the first place, because I was interested in it as a different kind of story-telling medium. And this is also why this whole project is of much interest to me, because I see in it the opportunity to create a world that is my own creation instead of being somewhat tied to the D&D system.

I think we certainly have room for a writer, whether you want to contribute to existing stuff or new stuff. At the moment we're still working out the code and how that'll be put together, so there isn't any actual creation of worlds going on yet (nothing to create them in, besides a framework of the engine). However, when we do get it up and working (I'm hoping to make visible progress on the model importers today), there will be plenty of room. Up until that point, you can help out with whatever interests you and make any suggestions you think of.

The forums for this project are here:
http://nwcitadel.for...splay.php?f=129
and have recently been split into a number of more organized subgroups, so if anyone has any ideas (and seriously, I mean anyone and anything), by all means, suggest it. The worst you can get is a look of shock because your fondest dream is to have an Epic Criticals: Stapler feat. However, if you suggest a city inside a giant spork, that might just happen.

Modifié par pkpeachykeen, 20 juillet 2010 - 06:37 .

[Knight_Shield]

Maybe take votes on key issues from the community?Just a thought.Oh just seen we can set up poll's here

Modifié par Knight_Shield, 20 juillet 2010 - 06:51 .

[SHOVA]

Peachy you are right, everyone got something right, but not everything, but what your missing is that one of the things they got right was it is D&D. whatever your feelings on it are, loads of people only bought NWN for that reason. Same holds true for whatever is made, If it is not D&D from the start, Some people are not going to buy it/ use it.



The other thing you are overlooking is the builder to player only ratio of NWN. many NWN users do build, many more only play it. many players will not buy a build it game, no matter how cool it is and what can be done, especialy if there is no OC game that comes with it.



Personaly, I can not see myself switching to a new game, to do what I am already doing in NWN. Yes there are many limitations to NWN, I now have 6 years invested into it. NWN is smart enough to allow my dumbness to at least achieve playability of what I try and make. That is a huge thing, that Obsidion forgot in their push to make NWN2. their numbers reflect it. While it is nice to dream up new game engines and what not, I am more interested in what is being done in NWN, the game I already have and am playing/building in.



I would never tell anyone what they can or can't do, but Peachy, seriously, a new game that is not D&D, with as simplified buildability as NWN, with the Easy Multi-play aspect right out of the box, that I have to dl more things to make it like NWN, before I can use it, I won't waste my time with. I have a feeling I am not alone in that.



good luck!

[Genisys]

Ok, let me put my 2 cents in on this subject, ever since I've follwed WOTC since Magic The Gathering (When Richard Garfield was there) and their (Hostile?) takeover of TSR, which was all the doings of HASBRO, the big takeover king (secretly hiding in the shadows using other company names to do their business), which would never sell the d20 system (A WOTC 3rd Edition D&D Intellecutal Property), even if they did, it would be a lease thing or just for A GAME THEY APPROVE, specifically for that game, and of course the greedy arses would probably want a major cut of the pie too!



You can't have a SIMILAR TO NWN without the d20 System, becuase D&D in itself hinges on that magnificient system! I'm not familiar with Dragon Age Origins, but I'd be willing to be it doesn't use the d20 system, and if it did, I'd bet my DM status that the boys at bioware had to pay some big bucks to use it! (Don't forget, WOTC / Hasbro are all about the $, TSR on the other hand WAS about the game & story more than the Bucks)



With all of that said, the chances of another game even remotely similar to NWN would take another Toolset, something Bioware specifically owns, so, if you want to ask someone, ask bioware, because like it or not, the toolset is what makes NWN so awesome for us community members who FEED U THE CONTENT. (and DAO for that matter)



Now, moving on to actually answer the question... (the best way is with a question)



Have you played Dragon Age Origins? Because most of the people I talked to said, it was more or less the real NWN2 that Atari messed up on big time, Atari failed because they tried to be the solo big dogs, but business is a TEAM sport, HINT HINT!



We as a community STILL make great content, and like some said above, they haven't even played 1/2 the games released. Truth to be told, I haven't even played 1/20th of the games released, nor even 1/20th of the servers online either! THAT'S A MOUTHFUL! (& I've been playing / building for years myself)



(btw, I'm not shouting, I puntuating points, big difference)



NWN to me will never die, as long as we continue to play, add content to use, and strive as a community to WELCOME NEWCOMERS (That is a big one there), play nice, and all cooperate, I truly don't see why we should kick WOW's butt! Someone told me World of Warcraft was really indepth, I had to go "Pfft!", NWN blows any game out of the water in depthness!



Sure nwn graphics aren't Tier 1, but who cares! I play the game to play with people / RP, have a good time, and I just don't find the offline thing very intertaining. (I've tried offline modules, 1/10th of the way through, I just can't take it any more and kill the slow mode by cheatting)



Everyone has their own style of play, STILL there are many players on RP Modules Online, there are still substantial numbers of players playing in the Action category too, no, not even 1/2 of what they use to be a few years ago, but hey, people have lives, they just may come back too, I know I did, multiple times!



Well that's my dissertation on the subject, hope someone enjoyed the read... Cheers! XD

[TSMDude]

Honestly on first I was digging what you were saying peachy but as the discussion has gone on I have kinda drifted away from it now.



What attracted me to NWN was it was in the Forgotten Realms and based on DnD. I am Old Skool and that is honestly what I like. GURPs...Cyberpunk...LotR. None of those ever compared to TSR days when FR first came out in the Big Grey Box. Heck I have the map on my wall. My wife hates it.



Sorry i digress. While I think NWN has diminished of course it still has not died because here is a lot of people like us that are die hard DnD people. Heck google Dungeons and Dragons Cakes and you will see.



I even waited in line for four hours to see Dungeons and Dragons...*shakes fist at the horrible movie*

[Genisys]

Anything my wife hates, I love.. TSMDude..

I forgot to add something, and I've said it before, IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE A NWN III

I would be willing to pay as much as $200 for the game< NO BS ABOUT IT!

However, it had better be GOOD, use all the cores of a CPU, have great graphics, online play, something similar to DAO, but it must use the D20 System & the Forgotten Realms setting.  Sorry I've spent too much time reading D&D books, Forgotten Realm Books, and have been playing D&D since 1987, so I doubt that any old timer like me would not be willing to shove over the cash for a better NWN, provided it was truly a NWN game, but with the better computer content.

Is it possible to outdo NWN 1?  It would take a game on the scale of WOW, without leaving the bounds of WHY we bought nwn in the first place, and that's because it's D20 / Forgotten Realms / D&D Based...

Modifié par Genisys, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:19 .

[pkpeachykeen]

@ Shova and TSMDude:

I think you may have misunderstood my post, or I mis-spoke.

We're not releasing the core engine with D&D as a base component, because that would only invite WotC to shut us down on IP violations. If that happened, the entire project would be to no avail. The core can't be D&D-based, because that would invite attacks from (at least) Atari, EA, Hasbro and WotC.

However, we'll definitely be supporting as many old resources as it's possible to write support for. Some parts aren't entirely documented, so it'll take some work to make it look and act just like the old one, but that's the entire goal of this. Being able to make more on top of it is both a necessity for supporting multiple old games and a nice thing for anyone interested in it.

So, instead, the core will be released with a different ruleset.
However, a D&D/NWN1 ruleset and importers for NWN1 modules and
resources will be released, just as a separate package. Same with NWN2,
and hopefully DA:O.

The reason we're making the D&D-related stuff separate is simply a matter of safety. It protects the core engine from any complaints any companies may lodge, which guarantees that the basis of the project stays safe and free.

However, two of our major goals are supporting NWN1 and NWN2 modules. Hopefully that clears it up for you.

Modifié par pkpeachykeen, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:36 .

[QNecron]

I even waited in line for four hours to see Dungeons and Dragons...*shakes fist at the horrible movie*

Dedication, you have it my friend.

[nikki191]

TSMDude wrote...

Honestly on first I was digging what you were saying peachy but as the discussion has gone on I have kinda drifted away from it now.

What attracted me to NWN was it was in the Forgotten Realms and based on DnD. I am Old Skool and that is honestly what I like. GURPs...Cyberpunk...LotR. None of those ever compared to TSR days when FR first came out in the Big Grey Box. Heck I have the map on my wall. My wife hates it.

Sorry i digress. While I think NWN has diminished of course it still has not died because here is a lot of people like us that are die hard DnD people. Heck google Dungeons and Dragons Cakes and you will see.

I even waited in line for four hours to see Dungeons and Dragons...*shakes fist at the horrible movie*

your wife truely doesnt appreciate the art *sniff sniff* casts dnd charm on tsmdude's wife

[SHOVA]

pkpeachykeen wrote...

@ Shove and TSMDude:

I think you may have misunderstood my post, or I mis-spoke.

We're not releasing the core engine with D&D as a base component, because that would only invite WotC to shut us down on IP violations. If that happened, the entire project would be to no avail. The core can't be D&D-based, because that would invite attacks from (at least) Atari, EA, Hasbro and WotC.

However, we'll definitely be supporting as many old resources as it's possible to write support for. Some parts aren't entirely documented, so it'll take some work to make it look and act just like the old one, but that's the entire goal of this. Being able to make more on top of it is both a necessity for supporting multiple old games and a nice thing for anyone interested in it.

So, instead, the core will be released with a different ruleset.
However, a D&D/NWN1 ruleset and importers for NWN1 modules and
resources will be released, just as a separate package. Same with NWN2,
and hopefully DA:O.

The reason we're making the D&D-related stuff separate is simply a matter of safety. It protects the core engine from any complaints any companies may lodge, which guarantees that the basis of the project stays safe and free.

However, two of our major goals are supporting NWN1 and NWN2 modules. Hopefully that clears it up for you.

I understand you perfectly Peachy, have all along, And I perfectly understand the licencing atari crap that your trying to avoid. However, I think your missing my point, if the new game is not D&D, I am not going to buy it, DL it, or play it. If like NWN2 with the DM client, can have the same features after a dl to make it the Closest D&D experience game ever, I still won't DL or play it, or buy it. It has to have all the features out of the box, just like NWN did. Now I understand that NWN was by no means complete when it was first released, however, it was playable, both OC, and online as "complete" game. I expect the same amount of playable/buildable D&D experience out of the box, otherwise it has failed to be as good as NWN. just my opinion, but looks like I am not alone on the D&D part.

[pkpeachykeen]

Ah. I think I see what you mean. Unfortunately, just because of all the legal nonsense, I'm not sure how that could work.

There are a few possibilities, but I'm not sure if there are any that satisfy your "one download" requirement. I don't think (but that's just me) that downloading the engine in one zip and the NWN part in another. Extract both to the same folder and play. That gets around the IP limitations nicely, but unfortunately gives you two boxes, more or less. There's a small chance we could include the NWN stuff in the main box, but that's something we're going to have to discuss and figure out in more detail.

It's also possible to do the opposite... For example, release the engine as it's thing, then create a NWN package that includes the NWN module and the engine (note the order, it's not the engine with the pack, it's the pack with the engine). Extract that and play your NWN, no bothers. It would need NWN installed already, we can't release all the resources again, but is that closer to what you're thinking?

If it's at all possible to give players the same out-of-box experience as NWN, we're definitely going to. It's just a matter of figuring out how that can be done. If you have any ideas on how to do that and still make it safe in the licensing department, we'd be glad to hear them.

Modifié par pkpeachykeen, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:46 .

[Lord Sullivan]

I think it's important to mention that such a platform is not meant to compete with NWN or any other game for that matter. It's not, like most things, going to be everyone's cup of tea, on that I think... "Oh well..."

On downloading "plug-in" projects separately(i.e. D&D system scripts Addon), I really don't get why anyone could object so ferociously... does your shopping cart come all packed and ready for you at the cash when you go shopping for food?

You know!?... just a thought

Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:26 .

[SHOVA]

Lord Sullivan wrote...

I think it's important to mention that such a platform is not meant to compete with NWN or any other game for that matter. It's not, like most things, going to be everyone's cup of tea, on that I think... "Oh well..."

On downloading "plug-in" projects separately(i.e. D&D system scripts Addon), I really don't get why anyone could object so furiously... does your shopping cart come all packed and ready for you at the cash when you go shopping for food?

You know!?... just a thought

its not about competeing with NWN, its about being A D&D game, not a game that can be changed to be a D&D game when you dl this, install this, and try to make it work. maybe that doesn't matter to you, but I for one have just now finally after 3 years gotten my mod to work the way I want it to. Redoing it in another platform that is not even D&D focused does not lend itself to being a actual process that I would consider. I also think that this idea has now surpassed the NWN forums, and perhaps should be moved to its own, as it is not about NWN anymore, but another game all together.

As for the shopping cart, yes it does, its called home delivery, and it is well worth it.