131 réponses à ce sujet

[WebShaman]

Make an Open Source Framework that one can "mix and match" parts from NWN2 and NWN.

I personally want the Party Mode of NWN2 and perhaps some graphical advances, the Spell Targeting Template, and the Outdoor Editor of the Toolset from NWN2 for my NWN pleasure!

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

I can't speak to creating some kind extended framework as Shamen suggests but if it could work that would keep both games going for another decade. Shamen's definitely right about one thing though... it's a pretty safe bet that if there's ever a worthy successor to NWN it won't be a commercial endeavor with cutting edge graphics. It will be fan made and utilitarian.

AndarianTD wrote...

Lord Sullivan wrote...

Ok
well, let's just say that, as a possible open source project to create a
pseudo "NWN" I'm not inclined to have to license(if that is even
possible) D&D and have to deal with the owners rules for a free for
all open source game platform(which was what I was talking
about).

I think this is a major part of the reason why an
open-source modding system should not (and arguably, could not) rely on
D&D. Even Bioware walked away from the franchise, to instead create
something over whose IP they had full control. While I don't pretend to
be privy to their reasons I would be extremely surprised if it had
nothing to do with the hassles and creative stifling associated with
having to satisfy WotC's licensing requirements for D&D.

Speaking
personally I don't really care for the D&D system even in terms of
game mechanics (leaving aside licensing issues) and would not mind
leaving it behind.

There are no legal issues blocking the continued use of the 3.5 D&D rules, or any other existing rules sets for that matter. Copyright law does not extend to procedures and games rules. Nobody owns the copyright to "Football" or "Baseball", only the artistic presentations of an athletic event, like "NFL" and "MLB", can be legally copyrighted. That's why professional sports leagues depend so much on logos, colors and other artistic elements and why they protect them so fiercly. Industrial procedures can be patented, but that doesn't apply here. Hasbro doesn't own the 3.5 rules, just the artistic presentation of the rules. In other words, they own "Neverwinter" and "Faerun" and the "Leomund" in "Leomund's Tiny Hut"  but they don't own the underlying game rules and it would be be perfectly legal to use them and just add a new spell called "Freddy's Etherial Tent".

That said, I like the idea of using a basic framework that allows us to "plug in" whatever rules we want. It would only be a matter of time until people started posting "Base Mods" for different rules sets. Mind you identifying them would be problematic. Hasbro OWNS the trademark to D&D, so you couldn't call it a "D&D 3.5 Base Mod". You'd have to call it "D20 Fantasy Themed Base Module" or something like that.

Modifié par UrkOfGreyhawk, 01 juin 2011 - 06:35 .

[WebShaman]

Mind you identifying them would be problematic. Hasbro OWNS the trademark to D&D, so you couldn't call it a "D&D 3.5 Base Mod". You'd have to call it "D20 Fantasy Themed Base Module" or something like that.
- UrkofGreyhawk

No, you are missing the point! If one creates an Open Source Framework that can Plug-In NWN2 and NWN, then anyone can make Mods for these two games and get around the limits here. As long as it is not being offered for sale, of course.

BG Tutu is a good example of this. As is also The Temple of Elemental Evil Front End from Circle of Eight for their Keep on the Borderlands Mod, etc!

This is the next obvious "step" for NWN/NWN2 IMHO.

[Shadooow]

what about that NWN remake project started years ago? anyone have any more informations?

[WebShaman]

I have a beta version of an unofficial patch for NWN - but I am not sure if that is what you mean here.

[Shadooow]

no, the community patch is my baby actually (still working on it, well actually i dont but want to... auto2damerger is done, some documentation+installer work still needs to be done)

I meant the group that started a new project that act as a new platform for nwn which will be able to work with nwn1 modules/files but which will offer new GUI/features/graphic not sure how it was named but they was on nwn citadel forums (cant find it now)

[motorheadabega]

I WANT THAT!!!

yes... gotta... stop RPing long enough to learn scripting...

[Dajitsu]

The really sad thing that I think about this, is that Bioware gave us the impression years ago that dragon age was going to be the replacement for nwn.

I can understand the company wanting to move away from the D&D licence and all that it  invovled, and creating  their own setting, but I really do think they missed a trick in the direction that they have taken DA, and the lack of a real follow up to the game system that was so sucessful.

If they had just done an updated RPG adventure system like nwn, but with their own  a dragon age setting, they would have had another gem of a game, it was after all what the community wanted, and you would have thought, where the companies expertise lay, they did have 5 years experience after all,  an updated RPG Gamers Kit .... not the nwn2 or the DA series as it now is (pants as far as im concerned)

much as I enjoyed nwn2, it is nowhwere near as good as nwn was, nor has it lasted the course.

what we need is an updated moden RPG game kit, a modern nwn, so we can play for another 10 years hehe

 

[Jaryd theBlackDragon]

Dajitsu wrote...

The really sad thing that I think about this, is that Bioware gave us the impression years ago that dragon age was going to be the replacement for nwn.

I can understand the company wanting to move away from the D&D licence and all that it  invovled, and creating  their own setting, but I really do think they missed a trick in the direction that they have taken DA, and the lack of a real follow up to the game system that was so sucessful.

If they had just done an updated RPG adventure system like nwn, but with their own  a dragon age setting, they would have had another gem of a game, it was after all what the community wanted, and you would have thought, where the companies expertise lay, they did have 5 years experience after all,  an updated RPG Gamers Kit .... not the nwn2 or the DA series as it now is (pants as far as im concerned)

much as I enjoyed nwn2, it is nowhwere near as good as nwn was, nor has it lasted the course.

what we need is an updated moden RPG game kit, a modern nwn, so we can play for another 10 years hehe

 

Dragon Age was supposed to be the follup on the Infinity Engine style games, not the NWN style games (an expectation I also had when NWN came out, I expected a game similar to BG in style and I was sorely dissapointed in that respect), unfortunately they totally broke it with DA2, but that's another story entirely.

Anyway, I'd much prefer them to make a NWN3 (or a similar game using their own settings) rather than turn DA away from what it was supposed to be (iow, if they ever bother to make a DA3 it better be more like the IE games again and far less like ME). They should just develop the three systems simultaneously imho, NWN-style, IE-style and the ME-style instead of trying to turn one of them into something it wasn't supposed to be dissapointing the loyal fans of each in the process.

[Lili Dragunova]

It's not likely. I'd love to see NWN and NWN 2 redone though.

[IronRook]

NO! I dont know what happened between Bioware and Atari but I can tell you this .If they were still supporting this game as in marketing,selling,updating it.NWN1 will crush the competition.I have recently played some of the other online rpg/mmorp. pfft other than graphics Neverwinter Nights 1 has them beat.Marketing is what keeps those others going.
Lets say you drag one of those other games into a lawsuit and stop support and see how long they last.

I also just played Tomb Raider Anniversary .Basically first game with awesome graphics.
I think Bioware or whoever is in control should start some more support and get a hompage for NWN 1.

[WebShaman]

Well, fortunately we have an advantage over the BG folks - NWN allows us to create our own worlds and independent adventures.

But the BG folks kind of got left in the same sort of predicament. There *is* a group bringing BG II to DA - and the first part has been released. It is pretty good, actually.

But some of the comments sort of surprised me - that BGers did not WANT a graphically better version of BG, but wanted NEW material for it.

So I think that perhaps they want new adventures with known faces - Minsc, Viconia, etc.

Kind of sounds like what we want - new NWN stuff, with better graphics and better capabilities to the game engine. A pity it falls on deaf ears.

[FunkySwerve]

[quote]UrkOfGreyhawk wrote...

There are no legal issues blocking the continued use of the 3.5 D&D rules, or any other existing rules sets for that matter. Copyright law does not extend to procedures and games rules.
[/quote]
You are both wrong and right. You're absolutely correct in that copyright law does not extend to procedures and game rules. There are, however, serious legal issues blocking their use, because WotC et al claim to have copyrighted them regadless. Anyone attempting to use them in a commercial release would find themselves the target of a lawsuit. Read up on the SRD and the Open Game license to see what I'm talking about. Still, I hope someone challenges them on it soon.
[quote]
Nobody owns the copyright to "Football" or "Baseball", only the artistic presentations of an athletic event, like "NFL" and "MLB", can be legally copyrighted. That's why professional sports leagues depend so much on logos, colors and other artistic elements and why they protect them so fiercly.[/quote]
Really bad example. Baseball is the only industry (other than health care, before reform) to get an exception to antitrust statutes. The marketing of professional sports has abolutely no bearing on their inability to copyright rules, and everything to do with making money hand-over-fist.
[/quote]
Anyway, it's nice to see someone on here with an actual understanding of copyright law, for a change.

Funky

[Lazarus Magni]

Honestly I think one things that everyone here is overlooking is game developers perspective on games with long term playability. Frankly I think alot of them are scared of the precident set by NWN 1, oblivion, and FO3. Furthermore I think this is compounded by a shortsightedness on the CEO's part or whoever says yes/no this game will make us money.

Imagine this, what if bioware had released NWN 1 as it was, but also started their own hosting company for PW's in conjunction with NWN 1 with full support? It would still be free for the players (one of the major draws to me with NWN over WOW), and yet the game developer would be able to continue to bring in profits from a game over the course of it's online lifetime.

PW's already pay for hosting anyways (or have some basement set up, which was in itself a huge investment I am sure), why not pay it to the game developer so they, the PW owners have access to the best support, and the developers have incentive for releasing a game that could last for 10 years as NWN 1 may with it's incredible flexibilty in terms of customization? Imagine if bioware would have been making 10-30 bucks a month off all (or most) of the nwn servers over the last 8 years. It's not big COD initial release date money (or whatever the most popular game of the year is), but it would be more than significant.

Just a lil interesting food for thought.

Cheers,
Lazarus

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 17 juillet 2011 - 08:18 .

[Tanlaus]

Would be nice if Bioware did an NWN/NWN2 spiritual successor with the Pathfinder ruleset.

But there is some risk involved. I think part of what makes D&D based games successful is the familiarity of the lore and setting. In addition to PnP there are whole series of novels based on the setting, that can help augment the player's gaming experience.

[PlasmaJohn]

CRPG rulesets and settings that work for PnP almost always require a lot of work to adapt them to something suitable for a computer game. Beyond the pure technical issues, there also tends to be quite a bit of friction between the CRPG designers and those representing the interests of the setting.

One notable fight was between Steve Jackson Games and Black Isle Studios over the content of Fallout. SJG pulled BIS' license to use GURPS which led to BIS' development of S.P.E.C.I.A.L, arguably a much more suitable system. Hasbro's "family games" corporate focus is utterly incompatible with D&D (hint: Disney created Touchstone for this express purpose).

ObIANAL, but I've heard speculation that there's some legal issue preventing D20 derivatives from being used in CRPG's. Baseless or not, designers are much cheaper than lawyers.

Will we see another multiplayer CRPG with a usable toolset and accessible content pipeline? IMO, yes. Will it be based on D&D? Not until Hasbro spins off TSR.

[Tremayne7]

I thought Wizards of the Coast bought TSR? TSR as a game company no longer exists. You'd think with all the "violence" of "Transformers" via Michael Bay, they'd create an "adult" division similar to your comparison of Disney with Touchstone. FYI, Disney released both "Popeye" and "Splash" under their own distribution company of Buena Vista and then created Touchstone when they began to make more PG rated fare.

[PlasmaJohn]

Yes, WotC bought TSR and a couple years later Hasbro bought WotC because they wanted in on the Collectible Card Game market. They had no clue what D&D was. Rumor has it that they were about to jettison D&D until some bean counter noticed that if it wasn't for the D&D revenue, WotC would have had a massive loss because the CCG market bubble collapsed. Instead of spinning off TSR like they should have, D&D got morphed into a WoW derivative with kiddie cartoon values.

Modifié par PlasmaJohn, 20 juillet 2011 - 01:19 .

[Tremayne7]

Ah! Thanks for clearing that up.

[Johnmr531]

Dont know if this has been mentioned but there is this from cryptic
http://www.playneverwinter.com/

[NWN DM]

Johnmr531 wrote...

Dont know if this has been mentioned but there is this from cryptic
http://www.playneverwinter.com/

It has, but that game resembles NWN in name only based on what we know at the present time.  IMO obviously.

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

Yeah. Neverwinter online looks pretty craptastic.

[Birdman076]

Why not use a game engine like  Unity or the Unreal Engine and roll our own?

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

Why start over from scratch when we already have a perfectly serviceable and easily modable engine like aurora available?

I certainly see the appeal of modernizing the graphics and I love the rules-set plug-in idea. I still haven't forgiven Obs for not adding a z-axis to Electron, and I'd love to see that implemented. But the project would just be enormous. Even if the core engine was finished can you imagine the tedium of migrating thousands of models over to the new system? Throw in CEP, Q, and D20 modern and you're talking about an epic quantity of material. And suppose a z-axis was implemented. This creates a whole new challenge creating animations and modifying models (which were never meant to fly in the first place). And what then? You have a bunch of low poly models cluttering up your your high poly engine. Create all new models?

It just doesn't seem like a practical venture.