205 réponses à ce sujet

[dethia]

Vaalyah wrote...

Ehm, could you tell us "why"?

If it's that hard to figure out sure, the answer is for exactly the opposite reason why anyone wants them.

I'm sure you will ask me to be more specific though haha so here it is.  Everyone likes their own thing, I enjoy primarily the plot of RPG's and game-play comes second.  I generally am not interested in fantasy romances, I don't care for them in the books I read and especially in the games I play.  Here you are trying to save the world and love is the last thing in anyone's mind.  It's such a cliche almost every action movie involves two characters of the opposite sex, and at the end of the day they're in love for no reason.  (Note no reason to me, perhaps someone feels that sharing a hardcore experience is reason enough to love another).  I enjoy learning about my companions and becoming friends with them (if their personality fits the bill) but love in a VIDEO GAME???  The concept is absolutely absurd to me and I know I am in the great minority with this.  Most people seem to jump on the romance wagon and enjoy it very much, me on the other hand it's just way too unrealistic.  Not only are the characters compeletely fictional, not only do they posess 0 traits I would find attractive, but it's also completely irrelevant to the plot.  It's just there for no reason other than to be there to please some people, but plot-wise it is insignificant.  Now if the romance was actually part of the plot itself, that is your character has/had a loved one and they're in danger or turned evil and now you're separated or what not and the character wishes to save them and the player can emphasise with the character and want to genuinely get involved.  In that case I would be less of an a-hole about the whole matter, but as things stand in NWN2 or Dragon Age or Mass Effect 2, the whole thing is so impersonal I avoid it like death itself.

[Vaalyah]

Hmmm, that's interesting. Well, first of all, of course your opinion is good because it is an opinion and everyone has his/her own ones and all must be respected. I just would like to point out a thing that, in my opinion, is not completely correct.



You said " Here you are trying to save the world and love is the last thing in anyone's mind." well, that, in my mind, is incorrect. You are a common person, a normal one who is trying to face the world, his/her youth, has some friends (Bevil and Amie), some not-so-friends (Mossfel brothers), you have a life, I'd say.



Well, suddenly, all in a moment, someone tells you that you can't live your life how it was till the day before, you can no long follow your dreams, your projects, everything you thought you could have. No, you have to save the world. You MUST save the world.



So, yes, in my opinion, I think that the most common thing that a person would do in a situation like this would be trying to find something, even small, that is able to make you again feel as "normal", as if your life is just yours and not voted to the world security. You try to make new friends, you try to keep something of yourself (as when the PC speaks about West Harbor and his/her childhood to NPCs) in your life, and, why not, you try to live that little piece of a normal life as to have a romance.



The PC doesn't want to be a hero, the PC HAS to be a hero, but no one has ever asked him/her if s/he agrees with this. So, in my opinion, the most normal thing that a person would do in a situation like that would be to accept the interest of another person and, why not, romance this person. Because maybe you have to save the world. But you also want to save "yourself" and the dreams you have done for your future life.



My 2 cents! :-)

[electricfish]

It's not like the plot really demands speed. It's written to be pretty ambiguous, but at least one year passes by while you're traveling around with your people. Rebuilding the keep takes months at the very least, then there's the time spent as a watchman/thief and doing smaller jobs while waiting for the big quest ones. It's not very well documented, but there is a significant portion of time for characters to.. accidentally form relationships.

Sure, Elenee may just start out wanting revenge against the bladelings (see developer comments in game), but after that long period of time, she may eventually come to trust and be close enough bonded to the character to turn into romantic feelings. Maybe not love yet like Casavir, but druids are pretty detached from people anyway and don't really interact with anyone but animals for very long.



..Although admittedly a druid is a terrible choice for a romance option. Rather Neeshka or Qara would make a little more sense.

[Vaalyah]

Why, in your opinion, a druid is not a good choice for a romance? I cannot understand o_O



By the way, one of the things that I like less in NWN2 is that you have not any day/night cycle. Or better, you do see moon or sun in the sky, but you are not able to understand how many hours have passed since fact A (like in BG2, you got a clock in the bottom left of the screen. Really useful)

[I_Raps]

Maybe druids reproduce by adopting plantform and going to seed....


I agree about the day/night omission.  They addressed it in MOTB with a "wait until dawn" or "wait until dusk" feature, but then they went and mucked it up by putting the PC on a different timer. 

[Seagloom]

Druids are by necessity more detached than the average person, but they can and do fall in love. Some druids live in towns rather than forests, mountains, or some other out of the way locale. There is actually a big druid community in Tethyr, and the women of the Moonshae isle's royal family are badass druids. They can and do sometimes marry and build families. Druids are like clerics in that they still have personal ambitions despite devoting their lives to a greater purpose.



Sorry for the tangent. Just thought I would throw that in there.

[Vaalyah]

They're also working on a Sand romance! I would like to recommend it to everyone, it is really well done!

[The Fred]

Zorr Crew wrote...
..Although admittedly a druid is a terrible choice for a romance option. Rather Neeshka or Qara would make a little more sense.

Why would an annoying pyromaniac sorcerer or an even more annoying tiefling make more sense than a druid?

[electricfish]

The Fred wrote...

Zorr Crew wrote...
..Although admittedly a druid is a terrible choice for a romance option. Rather Neeshka or Qara would make a little more sense.

Why would an annoying pyromaniac sorcerer or an even more annoying tiefling make more sense than a druid?

Disregarding their specific personalities, in general druids are much more detached from people than people in classes like rogue, sorcerer, or cleric. They have an inherent distance to anything not related to nature, and often spend little time with even other druids. The lack of socialization and proper knowledge about social customs means that potential romances can take much more time and effort to really form.
I'm mostly basing this (druid stuff) on what I've read from Quintessential Druid and a few other D&D 3.5 manuals.
In the game, a common complaint about Elanee's wall ending was it felt like more "good friends" than "lover." During the year+ of the OC, it's got to have taken that long for her to adapt to moving around in cities and working with other people, not just her own circle or animal buddies. What we see isn't the true representation of feelings that she could/will have if the events of MotB didn't happen.

I guess in a roundabout way I'm lamenting that her romance wasn't as good as it could have been if she'd developed a little more? But yeah, I hope I'm a little clearer on what I meant.

[Vaalyah]

I think that both romances should have been improved a bit. I haven't finished the OC yet, but I discovered that Casavir was actually flirting with my PC just reading on internet that he was the romance option o_O sure, I hadn't understood it by myself! He just speaks about Old Owl Well!

And all the stuff about "I want to protect you!". ME??? My PC is a sort of ultimate lethal weapon!

[Sarethus]

The Fred wrote...

Zorr Crew wrote...
..Although admittedly a druid is a terrible choice for a romance option. Rather Neeshka or Qara would make a little more sense.

Why would an annoying pyromaniac sorcerer or an even more annoying tiefling make more sense than a druid?

I like that pyromaniac sorceress and the tiefling can be amusing and nice. The only time I ever wanted to hurt Neeshka was when she kept the ruby during the raid on the weapon warehouse as that was just after I took care Lelldon permanently too but she was fun to have around and had more personality then most of our group.  Qara too, she behaved in a manner I would expect for a powerful short tempered sorceress who had been sent to wizards' school to have. Thing was I could see loads of potential for growth with characters.

[Vaalyah]

And that's what mods are for! The romance mod is wonderful in my opinion, and I can't wait to finish the game just to see the development!

[Sarethus]

Vaalyah wrote...

And that's what mods are for! The romance mod is wonderful in my opinion, and I can't wait to finish the game just to see the development!

True, I just hope one day someone makes a Qara romance mod, doing that is far from my skill level.

[JessOrochi]

This might sound odd, but I always wanted to romance Khelgar. He charmed me the moment I saved his hide outside that tavern. His character is really interesting to me, plus I usually play monks so I thought it was kinda cute that he wanted to be one xD

[Vaalyah]

@ Sarethus: to say the truth, I have the skills for doing that (I write a lot)... but I don't have the English language! :-P so, if you speak Italian... :-D



@ Jess: you could always ask to the romance mod forum. Maybe, after finishing Neeska, they could decide to develop a Khelgar mod...

[Tooneyman]

Vaalyah wrote...

@ Sarethus: to say the truth, I have the skills for doing that (I write a lot)... but I don't have the English language! :-P so, if you speak Italian... :-D

@ Jess: you could always ask to the romance mod forum. Maybe, after finishing Neeska, they could decide to develop a Khelgar mod...

I don't know why, but every time I think about Khelgar. I get this funny feeling. No its not butterflies its just a very odd one. I can definitely see some people wanting the whole dwarf romance. It just brings up someone with an odd fetish. I'm also joking.

[Vaalyah]

I think Khelgar is one the best developed NPCs. He has a strong personality, that evolves deeply during the game. He's a stand out character so I don't see any problems in a romance with Khelgar, even if I prefer him as a best friend.

Modifié par Vaalyah, 11 septembre 2010 - 11:19 .

[Nightwoe]

I would have liked to see a Sand romance, and I've been mulling over making one, but I don't think I could write dialogue for him and do him any justice...and with the flirt pack, I did NOT like their interpretation of Bishop. It downplayed his character. He should be cold, yet defensive to a point, yet it is a difficult balance because of the intricate point obsidian tried to make that Casavir was all about being a defending kind of lover while Bishop believes in individual strength, respecting that the PC could take care of herself. Bishop's personality is extremely deep and extremely complicated. Just as Casavir believes that everyone has good inside them, Bishop believes everyone has dirt inside them.
If I could make a...odd...parralell, If you look at Seravok from BG, Seravok would have no respect for a woman that could not defend herself and was "clingy". Seravok respected a woman that stood up for herself and could fight as his equal, whether with words or a sword. I think Bishop would be the same.

Also, I'm waiting for a game where female PCs can have an "oops" baby xDDD Doesn't make sense that in every romance the female PC can play around indefinately, and I'm sure there's a way they can keep the plot moving despite this. It's D&D, for gods sake.

"Uhm...Casavir? I have something to tell you..."

Modifié par Nightwoe, 20 septembre 2010 - 08:48 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Varhjhin wrote...

I wish there was a chance to have Shandra survive and (less important) be the PCs romance.
With her dies a really nice person.

The OC Makeover SoZ Edition in the vault allows the possibility of using Shandra in the party through the end of the OC. No romancing option though.

Regards

[Kaldor Silverwand]

dethia wrote...

Vaalyah wrote...

Ehm, could you tell us "why"?

If it's that hard to figure out sure, the answer is for exactly the opposite reason why anyone wants them.

I'm sure you will ask me to be more specific though haha so here it is.  Everyone likes their own thing, I enjoy primarily the plot of RPG's and game-play comes second.  I generally am not interested in fantasy romances, I don't care for them in the books I read and especially in the games I play.  Here you are trying to save the world and love is the last thing in anyone's mind.  It's such a cliche almost every action movie involves two characters of the opposite sex, and at the end of the day they're in love for no reason.  (Note no reason to me, perhaps someone feels that sharing a hardcore experience is reason enough to love another).  I enjoy learning about my companions and becoming friends with them (if their personality fits the bill) but love in a VIDEO GAME???  The concept is absolutely absurd to me and I know I am in the great minority with this.  Most people seem to jump on the romance wagon and enjoy it very much, me on the other hand it's just way too unrealistic.  Not only are the characters compeletely fictional, not only do they posess 0 traits I would find attractive, but it's also completely irrelevant to the plot.  It's just there for no reason other than to be there to please some people, but plot-wise it is insignificant.  Now if the romance was actually part of the plot itself, that is your character has/had a loved one and they're in danger or turned evil and now you're separated or what not and the character wishes to save them and the player can emphasise with the character and want to genuinely get involved.  In that case I would be less of an a-hole about the whole matter, but as things stand in NWN2 or Dragon Age or Mass Effect 2, the whole thing is so impersonal I avoid it like death itself.

I agree with this. I'm not in favor of romances either. My reasoning is that the game is really about building a team under pressure. In reality a romance between team members would be more disruptive to the team than beneficial (think Yoko). I would expect team members to develop camaraderie, not romantic love. I could see romantic love developing afterward when reminiscing perhaps, but not when in the thick of battle and saving the world.  And the attempts at in-game romance I have seen are usually painful to watch.

Regards

[Nightwoe]

I accept the fact that some people don't want romances, but in my opinion, when you are in great danger and depending on someone as much as they depend on you to keep each other alive, I think many many times that would spark something. Cliche it may be, I agree, but I think there's a truth in it. Also, it doesn't have to be a romance, per say, but a strong friendship. Risking your life with others creates a bond, I think.

[Vaalyah]

@Nightwoe: I haven't finished the OC yet (long story. My 1month-old gpu broke and I am waiting for the change under warranty ' ), but till now I have liked the romance pack so far, for what is related to Bishop. So, can I ask you at which time do you think his personality has been abruptly changed by the romance pack?

But please, don't say too much, I don't want spoiler! :-D maybe just "beginning of chapter 3" or something like that! :-P



However, I don't think that for Bishop is just "everyone has dirt inside"... I suppose he has a sort of "2 opposite-force model" inside his mind. ie: from one side, he is trying very hard to make people fall to his own level of decadence. But on the other side, he would really like to re-emerge, from his own decadence. In this sense he probably also like the idea that standing near the PC, he could maybe improve and try to hate himself a bit less... My confused ideas...

However, I am going OT, it is better to discuss this kind of thing in the other Bishop related thread that I've opened in this subforum.



Except for this, I totally agree with you. Bishop likes someone who is able to fight and being self-sufficient. In fact I was a bit uncomfortable with the dialogue you can find after rescuing Aldanon at the Keep, when Bishop says that it has been too easy and that the PC should be careful. My PC said in abashment "Are you start speaking like Casavir???" '



Finally, about the "baby" option, in the D&D manuals you can find that "Nara root" (don't know the English translation, I can just guess it) is a very common contraceptive... and I suppose our female-heroines know how to be sure of not having children in the middle of a battle! ;-P

[Vaalyah]

@ Kaldor: from what I read on psychiatric texts, it seems quite known that extremely dangerous and stressful situations are leading to romantic commitment. Don't ask me why, but they also did a research after the war in the ex-Jugoslavia, and the numbers were clearly indicating this result.

As I wrote above, I try to explain this like the dream of a normal life, but of course, mine are just speculations.



@ Nightwoe: nothing to add, I totally agree! I am dreaming about my PC coming back to West Arbor with all her new friends (and yes, I am going to come back to West Arbor as soon as I'd be able to play again) just to see the reactions of the people there. Of course, I suppose the programmers had not put any particular reaction in the game (please, no spoiler!) but I am thinking about that situation and I find extremely amusing figuring Daeghun while seeing the PC with Bishop at her side!

"Are you going to have a relationship with... THAT GUY??? Are you totally crazy???"

yes, sort of! :-D

[Nightwoe]

@ Vaalyah, interesting perspective on Bishop, and I find myself agreeing that he trys to drag people down to his level, in a way, and I think it also helps him justify himself subconciously. I don't agree that he wants to improve himself, however, but if you havn't finished the game yet, i'm not telling you why little tip, to get more psych insight on him, have a decent influence with him by the end of the game. I've played through the game several times and read a lot of editor notes, not saying that I'm right and everyone else is wrong, but that's just the extent of my opinion xD

plus, to really see the difference between Bishop as he was originally and THEN put in the flirt pack...well...you notice the difference. At least I did. Not to say it wasn't well done, they did a great job, and they hit Casavir almost perfect, (again, my opinion). I just found myself not agreeing with their interpretation of Bishop's character.

Modifié par Nightwoe, 22 septembre 2010 - 01:15 .