Interesting, I think I would've liked that scene better.dan107 wrote...
Kaiser Shepard wrote...
To focus on lovely Morrigan for a moment: it may be noteworthy how she transforms into wolf after denying to go along with the Dark Ritual, while Fen'Harel is known as the Dread Wolf. Nothing major, but it might be a slight hint for what may yet be revealed.
Just want to point out that Dave Gaider said that originally Morrigan was supposed to turn into a bird and fly out the window. That proved too difficult from an animation perspective, so they made her turn into a wolf.
Other than that, some really interesting speculation in this thread.
Flemeth: Un-Official biography of the Witch of the Wild
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#126
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 07:42
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#127
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 08:46
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jln.francisco wrote...
Morrigan is an only child raised far off from the rest of civilization by a less then ideal parent (who probably subjected her to a lot of abuse).She may look like an adult, she's certainly smarter, more learned and way more determined then most, but emotionally she's probably a kid. She almost breaks down after one bad relationship (or more accurately one relationship that doesn't play out the way she wants it to). Most emotions baffle her and she's incapable of tolerating even a little competition.
Plus she likes shiny things! Morrigan's like a small very intelligent girl trapped in the body of fully grown woman.
That would be assuming that she is a Human... I know its a bold claim.. but the Yellow eyes of that woman betray a possible link to her true nature.. which may be a bit.... animalistic.
#128
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 08:50
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SirShreK wrote...
jln.francisco wrote...
Morrigan is an only child raised far off from the rest of civilization by a less then ideal parent (who probably subjected her to a lot of abuse).She may look like an adult, she's certainly smarter, more learned and way more determined then most, but emotionally she's probably a kid. She almost breaks down after one bad relationship (or more accurately one relationship that doesn't play out the way she wants it to). Most emotions baffle her and she's incapable of tolerating even a little competition.
Plus she likes shiny things! Morrigan's like a small very intelligent girl trapped in the body of fully grown woman.
That would be assuming that she is a Human... I know its a bold claim.. but the Yellow eyes of that woman betray a possible link to her true nature.. which may be a bit.... animalistic.
''I'm not like other woman you see.....''
Yeah I know.
#129
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Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 08:52
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R.U.N wrote...
SirShreK wrote...
jln.francisco wrote...
Morrigan is an only child raised far off from the rest of civilization by a less then ideal parent (who probably subjected her to a lot of abuse).She may look like an adult, she's certainly smarter, more learned and way more determined then most, but emotionally she's probably a kid. She almost breaks down after one bad relationship (or more accurately one relationship that doesn't play out the way she wants it to). Most emotions baffle her and she's incapable of tolerating even a little competition.
Plus she likes shiny things! Morrigan's like a small very intelligent girl trapped in the body of fully grown woman.
That would be assuming that she is a Human... I know its a bold claim.. but the Yellow eyes of that woman betray a possible link to her true nature.. which may be a bit.... animalistic.
''I'm not like other woman you see.....''
Yeah I know.
It may be that all of Flemeth's Daughter's are actually... shape-shifted-- if you follow what I mean.
#130
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 08:59
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SirShreK wrote...
R.U.N wrote...
SirShreK wrote...
jln.francisco wrote...
Morrigan is an only child raised far off from the rest of civilization by a less then ideal parent (who probably subjected her to a lot of abuse).She may look like an adult, she's certainly smarter, more learned and way more determined then most, but emotionally she's probably a kid. She almost breaks down after one bad relationship (or more accurately one relationship that doesn't play out the way she wants it to). Most emotions baffle her and she's incapable of tolerating even a little competition.
Plus she likes shiny things! Morrigan's like a small very intelligent girl trapped in the body of fully grown woman.
That would be assuming that she is a Human... I know its a bold claim.. but the Yellow eyes of that woman betray a possible link to her true nature.. which may be a bit.... animalistic.
''I'm not like other woman you see.....''
Yeah I know.
It may be that all of Flemeth's Daughter's are actually... shape-shifted-- if you follow what I mean.
Interesting.
It was pretty clear that she's hiding something, even Alistair guessed it (no pun intended).
I pretty much expected her to either betray The Warden or turn into a Dragon herself.
I was dissapointed with the reveal, so it's just a OGB, all the fuss for this?
Something along the lines of:
''Who ever told you that I was human in my natural form?''.
Maybe Flemeth pulls it off.
Modifié par R.U.N, 21 juillet 2010 - 09:00 .
#131
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Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 09:04
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Brrrr...'tis truly a disturbing thought.... They are all Shape-shifting dragon-ladies? Literally? So they do not perhaps change back to humans when they die...
This atleast fits the Flemeth profile..
Brrrr...'tis truly a disturbing thought.... They are all Shape-shifting dragon-ladies? Literally? So they do not perhaps change back to humans when they die...
This atleast fits the Flemeth profile..
#132
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 09:32
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SirShreK wrote...
@R.U.N.
Brrrr...'tis truly a disturbing thought.... They are all Shape-shifting dragon-ladies? Literally? So they do not perhaps change back to humans when they die...
This atleast fits the Flemeth profile..
Highly unlikely, but speculation is fun.
Someone suggested that BioWare simply forgot or didn't bother with Flemeth returning to her ''human'' form after The Warden slays her.
Who knows what's true though, besides the developers and staff at Bioware of course.
#133
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Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 09:57
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R.U.N wrote...
SirShreK wrote...
@R.U.N.
Brrrr...'tis truly a disturbing thought.... They are all Shape-shifting dragon-ladies? Literally? So they do not perhaps change back to humans when they die...
This atleast fits the Flemeth profile..
Highly unlikely, but speculation is fun.
Someone suggested that BioWare simply forgot or didn't bother with Flemeth returning to her ''human'' form after The Warden slays her.
Who knows what's true though, besides the developers and staff at Bioware of course.
Yes it is fun. Let me complete the earlier one:
So Flemeth is aperson who goes after power and has the ability to transfer souls into others. Now what is the most powerful thing that she can possess? It is a High-dragon! So she possesses one... Thus all her Daughters are born Dragon like.
#134
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 10:09
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SirShreK wrote...
Now what is the most powerful thing that she can possess?
The Warden.....if she could.
He/She only lacks immortality, but from the potential power The Warden has it's definitely something even compared to a High-Dragon.
After Awakening he/she is basically a demi-god.
I mean look at how rapid the growth is.
After some months destroying all Abominations in the circle tower plus powerful enough to take down Flemeth who turns into a High-Dragon.
About a year later killing another High-Dragon and the Archdemon plus all the crap Branka couldn't pull off in the Deep Roads and dozens of Darkspawn armies.
Now after Awakening I wouldn't be suprised if The Warden could kill the Archdemon by him/her-self.
A tainted god.......
Even the Fade Spirits(Soldiers Peak Commander) and Gaxhang (spelling?) fear/respect the Warden.
Forget the OGB, get the Warden
.
Modifié par R.U.N, 21 juillet 2010 - 10:12 .
#135
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 10:27
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R.U.N wrote...
SirShreK wrote...
Now what is the most powerful thing that she can possess?
The Warden.....if she could.
He/She only lacks immortality, but from the potential power The Warden has it's definitely something even compared to a High-Dragon.
After Awakening he/she is basically a demi-god.
I mean look at how rapid the growth is.
After some months destroying all Abominations in the circle tower plus powerful enough to take down Flemeth who turns into a High-Dragon.
About a year later killing another High-Dragon and the Archdemon plus all the crap Branka couldn't pull off in the Deep Roads and dozens of Darkspawn armies.
Now after Awakening I wouldn't be suprised if The Warden could kill the Archdemon by him/her-self.
A tainted god.......
Even the Fade Spirits(Soldiers Peak Commander) and Gaxhang (spelling?) fear/respect the Warden.
Forget the OGB, get the Warden
The warden is not the most powerful entity I suppose.. the most RESOURCEFUL..yes.. But that resource comes from brain and skill.. whcih I guess will disappear after possession...
#136
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Posté 23 juillet 2010 - 08:38
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@kaiser Shepard:
Ok. Here is my answer to your earlier awesome post. I am sorry that I have to contradict you, but listen me out.
I don't think Flemeth is Fen'Harel himself. She COULD be his agent. But if she were Fen'Harel, it would be uber-pwnage + anti-climatic to defeat her BEFORE defeating the Archdemon.. UNLESS.. she wanted to be defeated. Now this is quite possible.
She TOLD Morrigan about the book in the Mages' tower. She must have known/understood Morrigan well enough to know that Morrigan will attempt to get her hands on the book if given the opportunity.This may be pointing towards some sinister plot to get Morrigan working on something OF HER OWN WILL to achieve certain ends, on Flemeth's part. This sounds like a very deep-difficult to believe conspiracy. But know, that Flemeth being what she is, is perfectly capable of engaging in such a plot.
Secondly, I/You never touched upon the purpose of collecting the Old God AND making Morrigan the mother.... Why Morrigan, I wonder.... Did she want to possess a pregnant Morrigan to become the biological mother of the Child? Did she want to BE the child? Did she just WANT the child? These are questions we must address. I do not think that the child can be possessed. This way it may kill the possessing soul AND the soul of the Old God. We know that this at least happens in the case of the GW, when he kills the Archdemon. There is an uncertain theory in my mind that at least Morrigan is telling the truth about the OGB, that she wants to preserve an old tradition. She certainly respects such traditions as exemplified by her response towards the Art of Shapeshifting.
But of course it may be a half-truth.
Morrigan mentions that to shapeshift into any creature, one has to copy its soul. I wonder what it means. Is it the typical philosophical bull****, like "The night is upon us, but Lo! Here comes the dawn."? I would think otherwise judging Morrigan's practical nature. Sp you must know a creature with some familiarity, would be my primary guess, to copy its soul. This would mean that there is SOME definite relation between Dragons and Flemeth.
Now, from the codex entry on Dragon cults, one gleans the fact that Brother Genitivi very cleverly points out: How did the cultists and the Dragon know that their particular symbiotic relation will work.? This according to me is a Brilliant question. I am not talking of the intelligence of the cultists... They can read books and find this fact out. I am talking about intelligence of the Dragons. This is a small but definitive proof about Dragons NOT being Dumb-asses.... They seem to have either a congenital knowledge of this fact OR explicitly understand this. Now I would like to point out that the Dragon clan is organized not dissimilar to that of a Bee-hive. This would perhaps mean that the High-Dragon can command the rest in particular fashion. So only the high-dragon needs to be smart (note: Necessary vs. Sufficient). So could a High-dragon become smart enough to shape-shift? And though I doubt that sincerely the possibility that Flemeth is a true-High-dragon is NOT out of question in my books.
The last thing: I should have added in my original post the information available to us from the two Grimoirs belonging to Flemeth. The Black Grimoir has a picture of a Tree full of leaves. The True Grimior has a picture of a Tree that is leafless. This generates two distinct ideas in my head:
1 ) Pictures of Trees = Elves.
2 ) Tree with Leaves = Eternal youthful Life ; Leaf-less tree = Autumn = Lack of youth; Time of change.
Thus either the Grimoires have to do something about Elves OR they contain the exact information about how Flemeth learned to gain immortality (as in NOT dying without being killed, NOT the REAL DEAL). It could mean that it is related to both. Which would be interesting indeed. Then you can even justify her relation with Fen'Harel as she might be working for Him (notice the capital H) to get the God Babies and use them trap them forever so that the Good elvish gods may never be released as you suggest. But hen i would like to know what Morrigan want to do with the baby. Is her motive more sinister than simply preserving Old Traditions? I believe that Morrigan can lie very well, But she is compelled to tell the truth when it is NOT necessary to lie... So we can't tragically explain her motives.
So tell me what you think after reading this jumble.
Ok. Here is my answer to your earlier awesome post. I am sorry that I have to contradict you, but listen me out.
I don't think Flemeth is Fen'Harel himself. She COULD be his agent. But if she were Fen'Harel, it would be uber-pwnage + anti-climatic to defeat her BEFORE defeating the Archdemon.. UNLESS.. she wanted to be defeated. Now this is quite possible.
She TOLD Morrigan about the book in the Mages' tower. She must have known/understood Morrigan well enough to know that Morrigan will attempt to get her hands on the book if given the opportunity.This may be pointing towards some sinister plot to get Morrigan working on something OF HER OWN WILL to achieve certain ends, on Flemeth's part. This sounds like a very deep-difficult to believe conspiracy. But know, that Flemeth being what she is, is perfectly capable of engaging in such a plot.
Secondly, I/You never touched upon the purpose of collecting the Old God AND making Morrigan the mother.... Why Morrigan, I wonder.... Did she want to possess a pregnant Morrigan to become the biological mother of the Child? Did she want to BE the child? Did she just WANT the child? These are questions we must address. I do not think that the child can be possessed. This way it may kill the possessing soul AND the soul of the Old God. We know that this at least happens in the case of the GW, when he kills the Archdemon. There is an uncertain theory in my mind that at least Morrigan is telling the truth about the OGB, that she wants to preserve an old tradition. She certainly respects such traditions as exemplified by her response towards the Art of Shapeshifting.
But of course it may be a half-truth.
Morrigan mentions that to shapeshift into any creature, one has to copy its soul. I wonder what it means. Is it the typical philosophical bull****, like "The night is upon us, but Lo! Here comes the dawn."? I would think otherwise judging Morrigan's practical nature. Sp you must know a creature with some familiarity, would be my primary guess, to copy its soul. This would mean that there is SOME definite relation between Dragons and Flemeth.
Now, from the codex entry on Dragon cults, one gleans the fact that Brother Genitivi very cleverly points out: How did the cultists and the Dragon know that their particular symbiotic relation will work.? This according to me is a Brilliant question. I am not talking of the intelligence of the cultists... They can read books and find this fact out. I am talking about intelligence of the Dragons. This is a small but definitive proof about Dragons NOT being Dumb-asses.... They seem to have either a congenital knowledge of this fact OR explicitly understand this. Now I would like to point out that the Dragon clan is organized not dissimilar to that of a Bee-hive. This would perhaps mean that the High-Dragon can command the rest in particular fashion. So only the high-dragon needs to be smart (note: Necessary vs. Sufficient). So could a High-dragon become smart enough to shape-shift? And though I doubt that sincerely the possibility that Flemeth is a true-High-dragon is NOT out of question in my books.
The last thing: I should have added in my original post the information available to us from the two Grimoirs belonging to Flemeth. The Black Grimoir has a picture of a Tree full of leaves. The True Grimior has a picture of a Tree that is leafless. This generates two distinct ideas in my head:
1 ) Pictures of Trees = Elves.
2 ) Tree with Leaves = Eternal youthful Life ; Leaf-less tree = Autumn = Lack of youth; Time of change.
Thus either the Grimoires have to do something about Elves OR they contain the exact information about how Flemeth learned to gain immortality (as in NOT dying without being killed, NOT the REAL DEAL). It could mean that it is related to both. Which would be interesting indeed. Then you can even justify her relation with Fen'Harel as she might be working for Him (notice the capital H) to get the God Babies and use them trap them forever so that the Good elvish gods may never be released as you suggest. But hen i would like to know what Morrigan want to do with the baby. Is her motive more sinister than simply preserving Old Traditions? I believe that Morrigan can lie very well, But she is compelled to tell the truth when it is NOT necessary to lie... So we can't tragically explain her motives.
So tell me what you think after reading this jumble.
#137
Posté 25 juillet 2010 - 12:04
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I think that we could both better spend our time on different things than neigh baseless speculation and simply wait until the game is released, however fun this may be.
#138
Posté 08 août 2010 - 02:20
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actually conobar was a howe.Grommash94 wrote...
Tenkari wrote...
....i could have sworn you learned in the couslands have always been tyern of highever in the human noble origin
It could possible that Conobar was Conobar Cousland
the howes were the teyrns of highever before the couslands were. or so im led to believe.
#139
Posté 08 août 2010 - 02:22
captain.subtle
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Iliumdawson wrote...
actually conobar was a howe.Grommash94 wrote...
Tenkari wrote...
....i could have sworn you learned in the couslands have always been tyern of highever in the human noble origin
It could possible that Conobar was Conobar Cousland
the howes were the teyrns of highever before the couslands were. or so im led to believe.
errrr....
Read OP.
#140
Posté 09 septembre 2010 - 11:04
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Just finished Witch Hunt!!!!
Flemeth is confirmed to be NOT an abomination or a Human (it doesn't mean that she wasn't earlier).
I think She found a Eluvian and entered it herself merging with Fen'Harel! (She has TRICKED her way past death and more!!!!)....
Flemeth is confirmed to be NOT an abomination or a Human (it doesn't mean that she wasn't earlier).
I think She found a Eluvian and entered it herself merging with Fen'Harel! (She has TRICKED her way past death and more!!!!)....
Modifié par SirShreK, 09 septembre 2010 - 11:13 .
#141
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 05:23
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Amazing speculation, you may just be correct.
#142
Guest_vilnii_*
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 06:09
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SirShreK wrote...
Just finished Witch Hunt!!!!
Flemeth is confirmed to be NOT an abomination or a Human (it doesn't mean that she wasn't earlier).
I think She found a Eluvian and entered it herself merging with Fen'Harel! (She has TRICKED her way past death and more!!!!)....
Remember that Fen Harel's aspect is wolverine...Flemeth however displays a marked affinity for the Dragonian.
Outside her human appearance Flemeth has only been seen as a dragon. In my mind this really rules out any association with Fen Harel whose very essence is of the wolf
Morrigan has turned into a wolf yes. But not Flemeth.
Modifié par vilnii, 18 septembre 2010 - 06:11 .
#143
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 06:41
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vilnii wrote...
SirShreK wrote...
Just finished Witch Hunt!!!!
Flemeth is confirmed to be NOT an abomination or a Human (it doesn't mean that she wasn't earlier).
I think She found a Eluvian and entered it herself merging with Fen'Harel! (She has TRICKED her way past death and more!!!!)....
Remember that Fen Harel's aspect is wolverine...Flemeth however displays a marked affinity for the Dragonian.
Outside her human appearance Flemeth has only been seen as a dragon. In my mind this really rules out any association with Fen Harel whose very essence is of the wolf
Morrigan has turned into a wolf yes. But not Flemeth.
There is a serious question here.
The original Fen'Harel was a Dread wolf mastering in trickery. If he displayed his true form directly, would that not give him away instanteneously? I think that is a good reason why he wouls use all forms except that of the wolf in order to remain anonymous.
#144
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Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 06:54
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SirShreK wrote..
There is a serious question here.
The original Fen'Harel was a Dread wolf mastering in trickery. If he displayed his true form directly, would that not give him away instanteneously? I think that is a good reason why he wouls use all forms except that of the wolf in order to remain anonymous.
For Fen Harel, the question would be "Why do I need to Hide?"
In all his known activities, he never had to hide. He was openly sitting on the fence between the forgotten ones and the elven gods and behaving as if he was friendly and non threatening to both sides until he got rid of them.
He never had to hide while doing this... so what will make him want to conceal himself now?
Also remember that Flemeth has consistently been a woman or female high dragon) in all her appearances
Modifié par vilnii, 18 septembre 2010 - 06:55 .
#145
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 06:59
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vilnii wrote...
SirShreK wrote..
There is a serious question here.
The original Fen'Harel was a Dread wolf mastering in trickery. If he displayed his true form directly, would that not give him away instanteneously? I think that is a good reason why he wouls use all forms except that of the wolf in order to remain anonymous.
For Fen Harel, the question would be "Why do I need to Hide?"
In all his known activities, he never had to hide. He was openly sitting on the fence between the forgotten ones and the elven gods and behaving as if he was friendly and non threatening to both sides until he got rid of them.
He never had to hide while doing this... so what will make him want to conceal himself now?
true. But what if his motives have changed since. I will direct you to a nice post which discusses the motives of Forgotten ones and Fen'Harel and why they would have liked to destroy the Elves or their culture.
here
If Fen'Harel openly appears he will suddenly validate all of Elven lore which he may want to avoid.
Also remember that Flemeth has consistently been a woman or female high dragon) in all her appearances
I am not denying that Flemeth is a Woman. I am saying that she is more than a Woman.
