88 réponses à ce sujet

[Cheese Elemental]

LorDC wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
 what type of a ****ing bull**** is that? that's like saying Hitler was a good guy who cared about the world, and everything and he actually helped everyone survive and stuff... it's wrong to defeat him, or else we're doomed.

It's not a bull****. This kind of stuff even happened at least once in human history. You know, when barabrains destroyed Rome Empire. I bet they also thought something along the lines "This arrogant fools live in their stupid cities, conquered whole Europe. We will crush them and live happily ever after." But in reality this lead our civilization in Middle Age where/when overall tech and cultural level dropped dramatically.

It's not the same. The Romans were nasty folk, but they didn't go on a crusade of galactic genocide for no good reason at all every so often.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

LorDC wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
 what type of a ****ing bull**** is that? that's like saying Hitler was a good guy who cared about the world, and everything and he actually helped everyone survive and stuff... it's wrong to defeat him, or else we're doomed.

It's not a bull****. This kind of stuff even happened at least once in human history. You know, when barabrains destroyed Rome Empire. I bet they also thought something along the lines "This arrogant fools live in their stupid cities, conquered whole Europe. We will crush them and live happily ever after." But in reality this lead our civilization in Middle Age where/when overall tech and cultural level dropped dramatically.

It's not the same. The Romans were nasty folk, but they didn't go on a crusade of galactic genocide for no good reason at all every so often.

 what he said... in a mass effect sense, the romans (human/monkey people) are more like the turians/bird people in the game (turian councilor, or turian c-sec chief).

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:34 .

[MarchWaltz]

Same reason why any organic being does anything; reproduction.

[LorDC]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
so you're willing to become extinct along with your entire species, and other co-existing species just to make some pointless destructive machine of genocide and arrogance feel happy for destroying a galaxy and you along with it?

First, I didn't say that I want genocide of our species happen and I am not willing to become extinct. Second, you really sound like a barbarian "those arrogant romans living in their pointless cities". This phrase only proves my theory.

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
it's okay for it to destroy us yet wrong for us to destroy it? How about thinking in terms of how you're currently thinking, yet with a reversed perspective... as in not sympathizing for the reapers?

I didn't say anything about genocide(any genocide) being okay. Don't put words in my mouth.

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
Barbarians, and Romans weren't machines... they were human/organic (it's not like a robot copied and pasted their culture as their own/etc)... the last time I checked pertaining to actual earthly human history, there's nothing about machines wiping everyone out in order to progress humanity into becoming a advanced civilization (if they were wiped out then how could they exist to be advanced/evolved and all?). That's like saying allowing for the apocalypse to occur is a good thing, that's the only way we can survive... that can be classified officially as jargon, bull****, etc

Don't stretch my analogy more than it was supposed. I just wanted to say that humans(asari/turian) are not necessary best(by any measure) intelligent species in the galaxy and Reapers are not necessary evil.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

LorDC wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
so you're willing to become extinct along with your entire species, and other co-existing species just to make some pointless destructive machine of genocide and arrogance feel happy for destroying a galaxy and you along with it?

First, I didn't say that I want genocide of our species happen and I am not willing to become extinct. Second, you really sound like a barbarian "those arrogant romans living in their pointless cities". This phrase only proves my theory.

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
it's okay for it to destroy us yet wrong for us to destroy it? How about thinking in terms of how you're currently thinking, yet with a reversed perspective... as in not sympathizing for the reapers?

I didn't say anything about genocide(any genocide) being okay. Don't put words in my mouth.

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
Barbarians, and Romans weren't machines... they were human/organic (it's not like a robot copied and pasted their culture as their own/etc)... the last time I checked pertaining to actual earthly human history, there's nothing about machines wiping everyone out in order to progress humanity into becoming a advanced civilization (if they were wiped out then how could they exist to be advanced/evolved and all?). That's like saying allowing for the apocalypse to occur is a good thing, that's the only way we can survive... that can be classified officially as jargon, bull****, etc

Don't stretch my analogy more than it was supposed. I just wanted to say that humans(asari/turian) are not necessary best(by any measure) intelligent species in the galaxy and Reapers are not necessary evil.

 there's no hope for you. your super-abilities of jargon and bull**** are too powerful against me. the retarded reaper species are too intelligent, gawk... go on without me. *dying breath*

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:04 .

[LorDC]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
 there's no hope for you. your super-abilities of jargon and bull**** are too powerful against me. the retarded reaper species are too intelligent, gawk... go on without me. *dying breath*

That's what I am trying to say. Most people are just not clever enough to be worth saving from Reapers.

Modifié par LorDC, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:36 .

[jklinders]

LorDC wrote...

maegi46 wrote...
They are arrogant and think they are better than all other life forms.

And what if they really are better than us? What if by destroying Reapers we doom ourselves? What if destroying them will lead us in nightmare of dark age?

Given a binary choice of extinction or dark age, I will choose dark age thank you very much. You can rise out of the ashes of a dark age, but there is no going back from extinction.

[LorDC]

jklinders wrote...
Given a binary choice of extinction or dark age, I will choose dark age thank you very much. You can rise out of the ashes of a dark age, but there is no going back from extinction.

Well, Reapers do not kill people but transform them into themselves. That's not bad perspective if we take superior-Reaper theory as basis.

[Highdragonslayer]

It's because they fear the zerg swarm will one day evolve into a space faring race so they kill everyone just to be sure.

[Leftnt Sharpe]

Basically the Reapers are saving the entire Galaxy by preventing Organic life from reaching the point where they can destroy entire Planets and Stars.

Modifié par Leftnt Sharpe, 17 juillet 2010 - 05:42 .

[jklinders]

LorDC wrote...

jklinders wrote...
Given a binary choice of extinction or dark age, I will choose dark age thank you very much. You can rise out of the ashes of a dark age, but there is no going back from extinction.

Well, Reapers do not kill people but transform them into themselves. That's not bad perspective if we take superior-Reaper theory as basis.

Species wide loss of self identity=extinction. You are not really carrying the human(or whatever) race on. Rather the combined geneticv material is being used as a form of catalyst to create more reapers. Just because Harbinger called it immortality through destruction does not make it so. For example I could create some kind of device that takes all your cells and convert it directly into enegy. Have I destroyed you or just turned into a different form of energy top be recycled forever. After energy cannot be created or destroyed. From my perspective you are immortal, from your perspective you are dead.

Argue in terms of bad philosophy all you want, but reaper chow species are still dead even if their genetic material lives on in genocidal living spaceship husks.

[LorDC]

jklinders wrote...
Species wide loss of self identity=extinction. You are not really carrying the human(or whatever) race on. Rather the combined geneticv material is being used as a form of catalyst to create more reapers. Just because Harbinger called it immortality through destruction does not make it so.

Is Humanity worth saving? That's debatable. Are we losing our identinty when melting in Reaper? Considering Sovereign words about "we are each a nation" that debatable too.

jklinders wrote...
For example I could create some kind of device that takes all your cells and convert it directly into enegy. Have I destroyed you or just turned into a different form of energy top be recycled forever. After energy cannot be created or destroyed. From my perspective you are immortal, from your perspective you are dead.

That depends on how your device works. Anyways your comparison has nothing to do with our discussion.

jklinders wrote...
Argue in terms of bad philosophy all you want, but reaper chow species are still dead even if their genetic material lives on in genocidal living spaceship husks.

That's bold statement since you didn't supplement it with any hard arguments. 

Modifié par LorDC, 17 juillet 2010 - 07:39 .

[jklinders]

LorDC wrote...

jklinders wrote...
Species wide loss of self identity=extinction. You are not really carrying the human(or whatever) race on. Rather the combined geneticv material is being used as a form of catalyst to create more reapers. Just because Harbinger called it immortality through destruction does not make it so.

Is Humanity worth saving? That's debatable. Are we losing our identinty when melting in Reaper? Considering Sovereign words about "we are each a nation" that debatable too.

jklinders wrote...
For example I could create some kind of device that takes all your cells and convert it directly into enegy. Have I destroyed you or just turned into a different form of energy top be recycled forever. After energy cannot be created or destroyed. From my perspective you are immortal, from your perspective you are dead.

That depends on how your device works. Anyways your comparison has nothing to do with our discussion.

jklinders wrote...
Argue in terms of bad philosophy all you want, but reaper chow species are still dead even if their genetic material lives on in genocidal living spaceship husks.

That's bold statement since you didn't supplement it with any hard arguments. 

I detect a hint of self loathing here. If you really feel humanity is not worth saving then what does that say about your sense of self worth? If you don't feel that humanity is not worth saving then you are argueing against yourself. Either way I don't really feel any need to argue against it as we are creeping into an arguement the right to self determination. As long as we exist as a species with the capacity for it, I feel we should strive to maintain it. Either way it is irrelevant to whether what the reapers are doing is right.

Soveriegn was a pompous ass. If you want to believe what he said about being a nation unto himself that is your business. It was full of itself and until I see evidence that they are doing anything other abject destruction for the purpose of reproduction I will take what Soveriegn, Harbinger et al are saying as propaganda for suckers. "Oh they arte not killing us, they are preserving us for posterity. Just get in line with the rest of the cattle for consumption.

As for how hard my arguments are, they are diamond crystal hard compared to the apologising for genocide you have indulged in here.


Edit, ultimately, natural selection determines whether any species has the "right" to survive. Reapers lose, they have no right ot continue. Citadel races lose, they have no right to continue. Let us get past this BS about rights. George Carlin said it best. If it can be taken away it is not a right.

Modifié par jklinders, 17 juillet 2010 - 08:06 .

[darth_lopez]

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

Basically the Reapers are saving the entire Galaxy by preventing Organic life from reaching the point where they can destroy entire Planets and Stars.

clever never thought of that. they are in an awkward round about way preserving life. just not sentient life necessarily. and they do seem to strike on the cusp of a new massive technological breakthrough

[TruYuri]

darth_lopez wrote...

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

Basically the Reapers are saving the entire Galaxy by preventing Organic life from reaching the point where they can destroy entire Planets and Stars.

clever never thought of that. they are in an awkward round about way preserving life. just not sentient life necessarily. and they do seem to strike on the cusp of a new massive technological breakthrough

I was actually thinking about this too. Sovereign's line, "We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution.", seems to fit that. Perhaps the Reapers were created for the good of the galaxy, to ensure that we never destroy it all.

I still absolutely hate the Reapers, so I'll gladly kill them anyway.

[darth_lopez]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

LorDC wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
 what type of a ****ing bull**** is that? that's like saying Hitler was a good guy who cared about the world, and everything and he actually helped everyone survive and stuff... it's wrong to defeat him, or else we're doomed.

It's not a bull****. This kind of stuff even happened at least once in human history. You know, when barabrains destroyed Rome Empire. I bet they also thought something along the lines "This arrogant fools live in their stupid cities, conquered whole Europe. We will crush them and live happily ever after." But in reality this lead our civilization in Middle Age where/when overall tech and cultural level dropped dramatically.

It's not the same. The Romans were nasty folk, but they didn't go on a crusade of galactic genocide for no good reason at all every so often.

it's not the same but it is similar. what he is trying to say is that the possible ramifications of destroying a technologically superior race could result in a lack of information gain similar to the Dark Ages. it's quite similar in fact. Rome was the most technologically advanced nation on the the planet at the time not only that but the largest. they made vast improvements in how we live. and as a Result of the Sacking of rome by angry Germanic Tribes we descended into a dark age that resulted in Hundreds of years of bloody warfare plague and famine. 

while the germanic tribes did have obviously different motivations for sacking rome and rome never commit mass genocide that we know of or was recorded (though they did expand by martial might primarily, and not diplomacy, conquering all who opposed *similar to reaper exterminatus/enslavement*)  the comparison stands.

COnsider that the Mass Relays are Aqueducts the Reapers are the Romans and organic civilization a chaotic band of barbarians who freely use the technology with no understanding. and what he is saying is quite valid.

[LorDC]

jklinders wrote...
I detect a hint of self loathing here. If you really feel humanity is not worth saving then what does that say about your sense of self worth? If you don't feel that humanity is not worth saving then you are argueing against yourself. Either way I don't really feel any need to argue against it as we are creeping into an arguement the right to self determination. As long as we exist as a species with the capacity for it, I feel we should strive to maintain it. Either way it is irrelevant to whether what the reapers are doing is right. 

Soveriegn was a pompous ass. If you want to believe what he said about being a nation unto himself that is your business. It was full of itself and until I see evidence that they are doing anything other abject destruction for the purpose of reproduction I will take what Soveriegn, Harbinger et al are saying as propaganda for suckers. "Oh they arte not killing us, they are preserving us for posterity. Just get in line with the rest of the cattle for consumption.

As for how hard my arguments are, they are diamond crystal hard compared to the apologising for genocide you have indulged in here.


Edit, ultimately, natural selection determines whether any species has the "right" to survive. Reapers lose, they have no right ot continue. Citadel races lose, they have no right to continue. Let us get past this BS about rights. George Carlin said it best. If it can be taken away it is not a right.

In this argument I try to take position of independent observer.
We don't know if Sovereign was lying to us or not. Seriously there isn't any hard arguments for any of our theories. There is possibility that even Bioware writers don't know Reapers motivation yet. I doubt that my theory will turn into reality but it still have right to exist.
And evolution is one arrogant b!tch. She only cares who is strongest. And strongest is not equal to best.

[darth_lopez]

TruYuri wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

Basically the Reapers are saving the entire Galaxy by preventing Organic life from reaching the point where they can destroy entire Planets and Stars.

clever never thought of that. they are in an awkward round about way preserving life. just not sentient life necessarily. and they do seem to strike on the cusp of a new massive technological breakthrough

I was actually thinking about this too. Sovereign's line, "We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution.", seems to fit that. Perhaps the Reapers were created for the good of the galaxy, to ensure that we never destroy it all.

I still absolutely hate the Reapers, so I'll gladly kill them anyway.

agreed, fight to the death or die trying. no submission.

[maegi46]

Actually Hitler "believed" he was doing humanity a favor too by executing the Jews to form a more perfect race of humans. The man was obviously delusional at best but more likely insane. He had a God complex much like Sovereign did. To think one self above all others. Sovereign's comments depicted this well saying we were too inferior to even comprehend his races motives.



Yes the smoothies were to form a new Human Reaper. Yes they need our resources and they need slaves as apparently Reapers are incapable of toiling with their hands, since they don't have any. They are giant brains or collective minds composed into living spaceships with weapons of mass destruction and the drive to keep themselves alive at any cost. In that sense they are much like us or the other races, the instinct to survive is the strongest instinct of all.



I suppose they use the "cream of the crop" races , the one they deem the fittest to be used as genetic code or collective memory and intelligence to be added to their mix. The smoothies are used to fuel and manufacture new Reapers. Computers and AI's must be used to form their "minds" and tech used to upgrade their shields and weapons.



Sovereign was actually wrong about a lot of things. Firstly , he said they were not created, they just are and always have been. I call bull****, everything was created, including Reapers. Maybe their creators didn't include those memories for a reason, so I can see why the reapers might believe that. They are after all, just complex AIs, much like the Geth, whether they want to admit or not. We too are walking computers in a sense, our downfall is we are totally organic and susceptible to disease and aging, therefore we are not immortal, unless our souls are, but that is another topic.



Even machines do not last forever. Cars break down and rust and must be repaired or eventually junk piled for parts or thrown into a landfill. Computers break down or become outdated as better technology is constantly developed. You buy a top of the line computer today and 3 years from now it will still be usable but much faster better ones are available.



So the Reapers secret in one way is to completely obliterate civilizations and races which essentially halts technological advances, and I also believe they are somehow alerted by how far along tech wise the galaxy is becoming, their sentinel or vanguard watches for this level to happen , thereby setting off the harvest alarm and so it begins every 50,000 years or so.



Things Sovereign said we know are not true. One they WERE created, two, they can be destroyed. Three, they are not eternal or immortal. If a race COULD continue, their tech would eventually render a reaper as old and obsolete much like a computer is today.



Someone joked that we won't defeat the Reapers ala "Independence Day" with a computer virus, but why the hell not?



I'm sure we will develop some new guns and tech to go against them. their plan still remains to come in through the citadel and regain control so they can shut down all the mass relays and cut us off for the harvest. So our goal to stop them and destroy them has to involve stopping them from gaining control of the Citadel and also a way for us to go to deep space where they live or hibernate and ultimately remove them once and for all.

[Annihilator27]

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

Basically the Reapers are saving the entire Galaxy by preventing Organic life from reaching the point where they can destroy entire Planets and Stars.

Interesting, They also "save" species in the process.

[darth_lopez]

maegi46 wrote...

Actually Hitler "believed" he was doing humanity a favor too by executing the Jews to form a more perfect race of humans. The man was obviously delusional at best but more likely insane. He had a God complex much like Sovereign did. To think one self above all others. Sovereign's comments depicted this well saying we were too inferior to even comprehend his races motives.

the difference between hitler and sovereign is that sovereign and harbinger and all other reapers are no doubt superior. They are similar to the geth in the sense that they have Legions of AI inside 1 platform and can operate on 1 platform giving them thinking capabilities that far surpass any organic life form and even the geth's psudo-hive mind. Note that Legion is the only specialized geth platform containing only ~1000 Geth Programs in one platform. this implies that most geth Platforms contain far less programs and geth Hubs contain millions to Max geth population. the geth are also not self sufficient AI however and can apparently only vocalize with other races in a legion like platform.


furthermore when the majority of people on the planet can do Calculus 2 with ease let me know because then i'd think maybe we have the ability to understand them. Maybe. but probably not. 

legions of AI versus individual organic minds....Legions of AI win we can't possibly comprehend why or what they're thinking. they simply think too fast. we still can't understand all of physics. even in Mass effect.

Yes the smoothies were to form a new Human Reaper. Yes they need our resources and they need slaves as apparently Reapers are incapable of toiling with their hands, since they don't have any. They are giant brains or collective minds composed into living spaceships with weapons of mass destruction and the drive to keep themselves alive at any cost. In that sense they are much like us or the other races, the instinct to survive is the strongest instinct of all.

I suppose they use the "cream of the crop" races , the one they deem the fittest to be used as genetic code or collective memory and intelligence to be added to their mix. The smoothies are used to fuel and manufacture new Reapers. Computers and AI's must be used to form their "minds" and tech used to upgrade their shields and weapons.

makes sense 

Sovereign was actually wrong about a lot of things. Firstly , he said they were not created, they just are and always have been. I call bull****, everything was created, including Reapers. Maybe their creators didn't include those memories for a reason, so I can see why the reapers might believe that. They are after all, just complex AIs, much like the Geth, whether they want to admit or not. We too are walking computers in a sense, our downfall is we are totally organic and susceptible to disease and aging, therefore we are not immortal, unless our souls are, but that is another topic.

here you make the fatal mistake of saying that Geth are AI. They aren't this is explained in ME 1 they are psudo AI and can only function as an actual AI when they have a large concentration of geth programs, for lack of a better word, in one platform or in the linked area. Legion being the only Mobile Geth AI is only remotely similar to the reapers in that he is an AI.

The reapers unlike the Geth are a collection of AI each capable of thinking vastly faster than Legion. They are the pinnacle of non-organic life and are only similar to geth in the fact that they are legions of AI operating in one Vessel or platform. so basically they are thousands of Legion-class Geth in one body with much faster processing abilities.

on the note of organic life forms being walking computers yes and no. even today we're starting to develop machines that can almost finally think faster than us by this time(ME that is) the Brain of an organic organism short of a salarian would most likely not be comparable to a computer.

Even machines do not last forever. Cars break down and rust and must be repaired or eventually junk piled for parts or thrown into a landfill. Computers break down or become outdated as better technology is constantly developed. You buy a top of the line computer today and 3 years from now it will still be usable but much faster better ones are available.

So the Reapers secret in one way is to completely obliterate civilizations and races which essentially halts technological advances, and I also believe they are somehow alerted by how far along tech wise the galaxy is becoming, their sentinel or vanguard watches for this level to happen , thereby setting off the harvest alarm and so it begins every 50,000 years or so.

only true in some cases the reapers are no doubt capable of maintaining them selves. And for examples of technology that lasts for incredibly long times i present the DS (odd isn't it but perfect example though this works with any battery operated device). While the Module is shut off there is no flow of electricity to damage wear out the wiring. if it's in a safe place outside influences can damage or weather it's vital interior or exterior systems. say the the battery is fully charged when it is put down (now i don't know this for sure so lets improvise) now lets imagine that the electrical capicity of the battery will deteriorate over time say the course of 6 months is full lose of the held charge.at month 5 you take it and you charge it.

The reapers in the same way wait until they must strike to replenish their power systems and do any repairs or addons that they might need to continue survival unending wave of slave labor leads to amazing results.

the Reapers are infact eternal if this method is what they employ. they are not eternal by default but by programing.

yes they can be destroyed and tey can end up derelict but even a derelict reaper is still functioning (ME 2) and they do only have access to all the resources in teh galaxy upon their return. and yes they did have to be created by someone.

Things Sovereign said we know are not true. One they WERE created, two, they can be destroyed. Three, they are not eternal or immortal. If a race COULD continue, their tech would eventually render a reaper as old and obsolete much like a computer is today.

interesting Idea and as we do know that they needed building and they can be destroyed we Know as a fact they aren't immortal, i've already proven how they can be eternal. and Sovereign has another point we can not possibly Hope to understand a mind comprised of legions of AI most people can't even understand Calculus. it would take us milenia to come close to being able to up a reaper.

Someone joked that we won't defeat the Reapers ala "Independence Day" with a computer virus, but why the hell not?

I'm sure we will develop some new guns and tech to go against them. their plan still remains to come in through the citadel and regain control so they can shut down all the mass relays and cut us off for the harvest. So our goal to stop them and destroy them has to involve stopping them from gaining control of the Citadel and also a way for us to go to deep space where they live or hibernate and ultimately remove them once and for all.

the only way that would work is if we did disect a reaper and reverse engineer their tech. Lets not forget up until now they have never had a real threat to their return. No AI counter measure nothing has been able to stop them and the only thing we know of that has been Rev. Eng. is the Thanix cannon which was also miniaturized. We don't know however how effective it would be on a reaper we've only seen it on a prothean ship


Hoping a computer virus could stop them is very very sad because it doesn't have miniscule chances of working. Humans are noted for their Cyber Warfare and support practices in ME however we've only been at it for a couple of centuries. the Salarians have been at it longer and our capabilities in that area rival theirs. so while all the galactic powers are on par with one another we are sorley lacking against an enemy that has had Milenia to refine their cyber defenses. 

Modifié par darth_lopez, 17 juillet 2010 - 09:05 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Topics like these weed out the crazies that would actually help reapers or zombies or any other group that would try to kill us all. Bunch of damned traitors.

[xNEWxAMERiKAx]

My theory is similar to the one posted earlier. That the Reapers extinguish all advanced organic life as to preserve the galaxy & its resources. Sovereign talking about imposing order & Tali mentioning that resources in the galaxy are stretched thin enough as it is drove that that theory home for me. I'm sure if this is the reason there's much more to it, or it could all be a huge red herring & the real reason shocks everybody.

Modifié par xNEWxAMERiKAx, 17 juillet 2010 - 09:13 .

[maegi46]

Some other things Sovereign was wrong about or flat out lied about. they do not wipe out all sentient life forms, as evidenced by the Thorian, the Hanar, we know the Thorian was around when the Protheans were as it absorbed their memories and the Cipher. The Hanar were too as they referred to and still refer to the Protheans as Enkindlers. We also know the Protheans were all over the known galaxy, so who is to say there aren't still a few left on planets the Reapers were unaware of, ie, like Illos. The Protheans revers engineered the mass relays, we haven't even done that yet. They had to do that in order to create the Mu relay, the one way portal "back door" to the Citadel. I am very impressed with the Protheans and don't believe they are totally extinct, I believe they will play an integral role in defeating the reapers.



Sovereign claimed a lot of things, but I am mainly going to point out that he obviously was not superior or he wouldn't be a dead mf'er right now. He was cocky and thought himself above destruction by our puny race and look what happned to him. He made a few mistakes, he entrusted a Turian to be his general, Saren wasn't even a good spectre, much less a general. Then he made the fatal error of possessing Saren , much like the reaper that possessed Harbinger. When that form was defeated, Sovereign's shield also failed and he was easy prey at that point. So something with that much intelligence, thousands of minds working simultaneously made fatal errors? Wow , I guess they are as smart as they think they are eh?

[darth_lopez]

ReconTeam wrote...

Topics like these weed out the crazies that would actually help reapers or zombies or any other group that would try to kill us all. Bunch of damned traitors.

well i do lead the mexican division of the sith forces...it's a life style really