88 réponses à ce sujet

[maegi46]

ReconTeam wrote...

Topics like these weed out the crazies that would actually help reapers or zombies or any other group that would try to kill us all. Bunch of damned traitors.

LOL, gotta agree. Not going to point out anyone as they have already made themselves known.

[darth_lopez]

maegi46 wrote...

Some other things Sovereign was wrong about or flat out lied about. they do not wipe out all sentient life forms, as evidenced by the Thorian, the Hanar, we know the Thorian was around when the Protheans were as it absorbed their memories and the Cipher. The Hanar were too as they referred to and still refer to the Protheans as Enkindlers. We also know the Protheans were all over the known galaxy, so who is to say there aren't still a few left on planets the Reapers were unaware of, ie, like Illos. The Protheans revers engineered the mass relays, we haven't even done that yet. They had to do that in order to create the Mu relay, the one way portal "back door" to the Citadel. I am very impressed with the Protheans and don't believe they are totally extinct, I believe they will play an integral role in defeating the reapers.

yes they missed the thorian. they may have figured there was no point in whiping out a singular Plant with no possibility of ever evolving to the the point of space exploration. unfortunately plants need to be rooted to live so no space exploration is impossible for them it's only a threat when other organics inhabit it's area.

i never claimed Reapers were all knowing.  and the hanar aren't exactly a threat to the galaxy either at the time they may not have even been fully sentient. They are after all jellyfish and they require special anti-grav devices to go and live on any other planet for any amount of time or gravity would squish them on other worlds. not a particularly big menace and not likely to find space travel. low probability.

in the case of Illos it was a secret installation kept under heavy security. and was wiped from records as soon as hostiles attacked the citadel. the chances of any other prothean survivors aside from vigil are miniscule. primarily because Vigil was running out of power himself. and all the prothean scientist were dead. if vigil is running out of power what makes you think that any other prothean station could still be operating with out repear assistance? even Operating Beacons are a rarity among rarities.

and the proteheans didn't create the MU relay they createed the conduit. which was a miniatrization of a mass relay. and only worked 1 way it is stated that the conduit was the Apex of their Technology.

Sovereign claimed a lot of things, but I am mainly going to point out that he obviously was not superior or he wouldn't be a dead mf'er right now.

He lost by meer seconds. idk if you were paying attention in the battle of the citadel and the final human assault on him but he killed almost everything that was moving and not allied with him. the only thing the only thing that saved organic life was shepard disabling his shields by killing a projection of himself and that seemed only to stun the ship though it may have been dead right there no way to tell. 

He was obviously superior or he couldn't just casually turn his cuttlefishy arm and blast massive Killometer long ships away like flies to a bug zapper.

infact if you save the council Human forces almost sound a retreat because Casualties are so high. Shepard got very lucky that the arcturus fleet was on stand by and ready to assist.

He was cocky and thought himself above destruction by our puny race and look what happned to him. He made a few mistakes, he entrusted a Turian to be his general, Saren wasn't even a good spectre, much less a general. 
Alright.

on what basis was Saren a bad spectre? Crooked yes bad at his job no. He was the councils favorite he got the job done and was well known and respected as a spectre. All turians are trained in the military when one of them gets selected to be a spectre i'd think that would mean they are the best the Turian Military has to offer much as sheperd is. Foot soldier or general both are entirely different. and if you noticed Saren wasn't exactly commanding armies he was sorta looking for a relay and the heretics took their orders from sovereign and seran and benezia. Saren and Benezia both got there orders from Sovereign ....and it goes on until we realize that Sovereign was always in control and was the only one giving commands to anyone by proxy or in person.

Then he made the fatal error of possessing Saren , much like the reaper that possessed Harbinger. When that form was defeated, Sovereign's shield also failed and he was easy prey at that point. So something with that much intelligence, thousands of minds working simultaneously made fatal errors? Wow , I guess they are as smart as they think they are eh?

yes he made 1 fatal error thinking he could kill shepard. Super Advanced AI with super weapons vs tiny organic with much weaker weapons? Victory by logic goes to AI. Shepard is a Fluke born of human nature and probably the only person who could have killed sovereign when it comes down to it. 1 anomaly is all that stopped sovereign.

Furhtermore the Collectors were also not meant to server as an Army just incase you didn't notice their primary derective was to gather biological materials. and they succeeded in every case and if not for ceberus would have suceeded in killing Shepard. infact they still can even if you beat ME 2 shepard can still die. Harbinger chose stealth over brute force. We never see him and can never confirm that a reaper is actually leading the Collectors until the very end. 

and the fate of the protheans-becoming collectors is ultimately what humanity will become if we lose. why discard useful tools when you can improve them and make them easier to use?

[maegi46]

ok I stand corrected on the Mu Relay, thinking too fast as I wrote, but the point still remains that the Protheans were able to reverse engineer a relay and build a back door to the Citadel. Vigil ran out of power because all the Protheans were in stasis, ie, no one to perform maintenance. If the Protheans are on other planets they would have power the same way we have power, by producing power plants and using technology. All I'm saying is that the galaxy or universe is a huge place, they could have sent people outside the Milky Way and still be undetected by Reapers, who seem to focus on the Milky Way in particular. Why are the Reapers out in Dark Space, whatever that even means. I assume they may have been placed there by their creators as a defense or to make them powerless. Somehow they managed to get back inside. I think their creators also made the citadel and then made the reapers, either to preserve themselves as a race or as "protectors of the galaxy" as some people have already posted. Maybe they thought by making the Reapers they would somehow enforce preservation of the galaxy through shutting down technological advances before they got to the Death Star phase, ie making or using dark energy weapons capable of destroying whole planets, ironically, thats probably the exact tech it will take to defeat them in the end.

[darth_lopez]

maegi46 wrote...

ok I stand corrected on the Mu Relay, thinking too fast as I wrote, but the point still remains that the Protheans were able to reverse engineer a relay and build a back door to the Citadel. Vigil ran out of power because all the Protheans were in stasis, ie, no one to perform maintenance. If the Protheans are on other planets they would have power the same way we have power, by producing power plants and using technology

any civilian non- military/ government installation will have been destroyed. They are not considered High-End Targets and are not normally classified information. You can look on a map and see where the US is and all major cities. Siezing the Citadel first Means the reapers have access to every map the Protheans have. again Illos was the only known facility to be hidden by information purge according to Vigil himself. Vigil ran out of power because he ran out of power. He no longer had scientists in stasis and managed to keep functional for another ~49.3 thousand years. any prothean civilization would have re-emerged by now. and would be well known.

. All I'm saying is that the galaxy or universe is a huge place, they could have sent people outside the Milky Way and still be undetected by Reapers, who seem to focus on the Milky Way in particular. Why are the Reapers out in Dark Space, whatever that even means. I assume they may have been placed there by their creators as a defense or to make them powerless. Somehow they managed to get back inside.

it's also likely that the protheans did not have any out of galaxy colonies, especially considering they only had a 1 way mass relay at the apex of their technological evolutions. FTL drive only goes so far and Mass relays are the primary mode of long distance travel. Unlike star wars Mass Effect does not have Hyperdrive unlike halo it does not have split space and unlike star trek warping doesn't take 7 years to cross 1 quandrant primarily because Warp Drive also does not exist in ME they Have FTL which only allows them to travel to other systems in a cluster and they rely on Mass Relays for everything else. 

it's also stated that Reapers go to dark space to avoid discovery and contact with other races. well theorized by vigil and until we here it from a reaper it's probably correct.

I think their creators also made the citadel and then made the reapers, either to preserve themselves as a race or as "protectors of the galaxy" as some people have already posted. Maybe they thought by making the Reapers they would somehow enforce preservation of the galaxy through shutting down technological advances before they got to the Death Star phase, ie making or using dark energy weapons capable of destroying whole planets, ironically, thats probably the exact tech it will take to defeat them in the end.

a good theory but unlikely it's more likely they created the AI to be ship bored like in Halo the AIs gained sentiency and began exterminating their creators in defense as their creators tried  destroy them. as the reapers were used primarily as weapons before they had first hand seen how big an impact Super weapons the scale of a "death star" can impact the galaxy and set out to make sure it was never completely destroyed. 

or they are the the first in an extra galactic invasion force lead by their creators.

the possibilities of what a reaper actually is goes on and on. we won't know until #3 and we may not even know after that. we speculate all we want no way to know.


and the death star didn't use dark energy as the basis for it's weapon system.

Modifié par darth_lopez, 17 juillet 2010 - 10:14 .

[maegi46]

Never watched Star Wars. Just figured something called a Death Star is probably capable of destroying a planet, is it not?

[darth_lopez]

maegi46 wrote...

Never watched Star Wars. Just figured something called a Death Star is probably capable of destroying a planet, is it not?

it is but it's not powered by dark energy. the super laser was also miniaturized and built into the Eclipse class Star Destroyers only 2 were  produced. followed by the mass produced Sovereign class Star Dreadnaughts 15km in length each. only 4 are known to have been made and also killed.  fun facts for discussions on super weapons. the minaturized superlaser set fire to a planets crust basically incinerating the world from the ground up and could also be used as a 1 shot kill against any enemy ships.

[adam_grif]

It's not smart to discuss Star Wars because the numbers that get thrown out by SW are completely ludicrous. Death Star superlaser has a yield so high that you need to use scientific notation to express it, and Star Destroyers (of which there are many hundreds of thousands) can each slag the crust of an unshielded world in a few hours, using their 200 gigatonne turbolaser batteries.



SO, it's best to just ignore that crap.

[darth_lopez]

adam_grif wrote...

It's not smart to discuss Star Wars because the numbers that get thrown out by SW are completely ludicrous. Death Star superlaser has a yield so high that you need to use scientific notation to express it, and Star Destroyers (of which there are many hundreds of thousands) can each slag the crust of an unshielded world in a few hours, using their 200 gigatonne turbolaser batteries.

SO, it's best to just ignore that crap.

you sure about that? i'm pretty sure that's acclamator turbolaser battery strength not sure if turbo laser power is universal. Acclamator Assault ships aren't really SDs they are but they aren't....their more cannon fodder than a valuable ship. except to the Republic (clone wars era). 

and it just goes to show that in combat Star Wars would still decimate every other sci-fi , except 40k, and obviously Star wars is a far sturdier universe than any other concieved fictional galaxy...except Warhammer 40k they win...nothing can compare to the Imperium of Man in star wars. though i think they might take the Tau and IG i doubt they'd be able to stand against the Space Marine Chapters Chaos Orcs and Eldar and necrons and the nids. whoops for got about Titans sooo star wars would only feasibly be able to take the Tau..possibly...


any who star wars is perfectly relevent in this conversation. at least as an example of Destructive Force. 'smart' or not, considering most conversations about video game realities and Sentient AI can't really be considered all that 'smart' either i think it has a place.

this is where you say touche.

Modifié par darth_lopez, 18 juillet 2010 - 08:59 .

[adam_grif]

200 GT is the official figure given for a "turbolaser battery" (It's not clear if this means multiple individual guns or a single gun). As far as Warhammer 40,000 goes, the IoM and it's contemporaries have extremely similar firepower to SWverse, but they lack speed. Warp travel in 40,000 is wildly variant, but in general is extremely slow (taking months or years to cross the galaxy), whereas a SW hyperdrive can cross the SW galaxy in less than 24 hours. This means that, other things being equal, SW will probably win.



Also, SW/40k aren't even the "heavyweights" of the scifi genre. At the utterly proposterously ridiculous end of the scale, there is an Anime show (the name escapes me) where there is a single robot built out of billions of galaxies. Moving a little back, we get the Xeelee and The Culture.



The Culture is nearly unbeatable, because they have "affectors" that can take over your mind or control a supercomputer at thousands of lightyears away, instantaneously. They can hide in their version of hyperspace for as long as they want, completely immune to detection and return fire, then pop back and blow your planet open with a smallish ship.



Yeah.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

Basically the Reapers are saving the entire Galaxy by preventing Organic life from reaching the point where they can destroy entire Planets and Stars.

because stars don't naturally destroy themselves or anything going supernova... so yeah. good reasons to sympathize for why defective machines should be able to exterminate you when ever they believe they have the rights to.

[Simpfan]

 I always thought they do what they do to make more of themselves, just like they say at the end of ME2.
They take all the races, turn them into goo (human goo, turian goo, quarian goo, etc) and make a reaper to go with the goo.

However, the sudden shift in design to the Human-reaper can be explained one of two ways.

1st explanation is that all Reapers begin in a more recognizable form to their starter goo, but as they grow, they turn more cuttlefish like, but still retain identifiers to the species they came from (possibly number of eyes, tentacles, length of cuttlefish spike thingy at the top)

2nd explanation is sort of talked about in game. Humans are different than other species, they have more genetic variations. Maybe the Reapers see these differences as a potential for their own evolution. Maybe they hope to indoctrinate and breed humans to have a never ending supply of goo-able humans to reproduce.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

TruYuri wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

Basically the Reapers are saving the entire Galaxy by preventing Organic life from reaching the point where they can destroy entire Planets and Stars.

clever never thought of that. they are in an awkward round about way preserving life. just not sentient life necessarily. and they do seem to strike on the cusp of a new massive technological breakthrough

I was actually thinking about this too. Sovereign's line, "We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution.", seems to fit that. Perhaps the Reapers were created for the good of the galaxy, to ensure that we never destroy it all.

I still absolutely hate the Reapers, so I'll gladly kill them anyway.

 didn't hitler think the same way? causing ww2? natural selection? imposing order on the jews, betraying his allies, then imposing order or fellow germans, and then eventually turned on his own men/imposing order? hitler exited for the greater good of humanity as to sovereign's character is identical.

[Raxxman]

Farscapes Peacekeepers are genetically altered humans who were created to maintain peace throughout the sector of the galaxy, however throughout the years their goals became clouded and they began to impose peace instead of maintaining it. It's not a bold new Scifi idea that's being branded.



And that human reaper is way off scale for the other reapers It's several orders of magnitude smaller than any other reaper. Maybe the core 'brain' of the reaper ships looks like the native species their organic code comes from, with the much more massive external shell looking like a bug/cuttlefish.

[Simpfan]

And that human reaper is way off scale for the other reapers It's several orders of magnitude smaller than any other reaper. Maybe the core 'brain' of the reaper ships looks like the native species their organic code comes from, with the much more massive external shell looking like a bug/cuttlefish.

Well it was in an early stage of development.

Or maybe it was a prototype, to test the human-goo before committing to a full reaper

[JohnnyBeGood2]

To ansawer the OP:

Reapers reached the fork in the road and said: "I don't want to die." Every sentient being faces it at some point in their life. The evil say: "Hmm, I will do anything to not die, no matter what it is!!!" The stupid evil ones fail and die anyway and the smart and lucky evil ones succeed... for a while.
That's why they do what that do. No life form is permanant, but the Reapers assert they are and they're pursuing that.
(Yes I am asserting they are a life form not an AI per se)

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 18 juillet 2010 - 01:51 .

[Leftnt Sharpe]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

Basically the Reapers are saving the entire Galaxy by preventing Organic life from reaching the point where they can destroy entire Planets and Stars.

because stars don't naturally destroy themselves or anything going supernova... so yeah. good reasons to sympathize for why defective machines should be able to exterminate you when ever they believe they have the rights to.

Hey I didn't say it was a perfect theory. Besides stars going 'Nova or entire planets getting destroyed by asteroids is pretty rare. Then again a don't consider the Reapers to be either Machines or defective.

[darth_lopez]

adam_grif wrote...

200 GT is the official figure given for a "turbolaser battery" (It's not clear if this means multiple individual guns or a single gun). As far as Warhammer 40,000 goes, the IoM and it's contemporaries have extremely similar firepower to SWverse, but they lack speed. Warp travel in 40,000 is wildly variant, but in general is extremely slow (taking months or years to cross the galaxy), whereas a SW hyperdrive can cross the SW galaxy in less than 24 hours. This means that, other things being equal, SW will probably win.

Also, SW/40k aren't even the "heavyweights" of the scifi genre. At the utterly proposterously ridiculous end of the scale, there is an Anime show (the name escapes me) where there is a single robot built out of billions of galaxies. Moving a little back, we get the Xeelee and The Culture.

The Culture is nearly unbeatable, because they have "affectors" that can take over your mind or control a supercomputer at thousands of lightyears away, instantaneously. They can hide in their version of hyperspace for as long as they want, completely immune to detection and return fire, then pop back and blow your planet open with a smallish ship.

Yeah.

the force. SW wins. the force when wielded properly can kill just about anythign and do just about everything the limitations are relative to individuals. Star Wars has single individuals capable of purging a planet of all life with their minds. Similarly you shouldn't forget the Architects/Celestials technology.

ship size unless they can compete with the Sun Crusher (architect technology, a fighter sized sun destroyer (fires specialized torpedoes into suns and destroys the entire system)) you loose. lets also not forget Centerpoint station and similar stations that can fire on any planet or star in the galaxy from any range and kill it. 

That and Star Wars isn't remotely comparable to an anime nor is Warhammer Galaxies do not make robots unfortunately. sorry but i can't even think of building a robot from multiple galaxies is remotelly viable unless you're talking about pure mineral harvest and refinery. 

despite this being an argument on fiction you do have a disadvantage here. 

and if we're comparing Western Sci-Fi to ****** sci-fi Western Sci-fi will always come up standing with a much more solid story and more realistic out comes than ******-sci-fi.

again this is where you say touche.

[darth_lopez]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

TruYuri wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

Basically the Reapers are saving the entire Galaxy by preventing Organic life from reaching the point where they can destroy entire Planets and Stars.

clever never thought of that. they are in an awkward round about way preserving life. just not sentient life necessarily. and they do seem to strike on the cusp of a new massive technological breakthrough

I was actually thinking about this too. Sovereign's line, "We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution.", seems to fit that. Perhaps the Reapers were created for the good of the galaxy, to ensure that we never destroy it all.

I still absolutely hate the Reapers, so I'll gladly kill them anyway.

 didn't hitler think the same way? causing ww2? natural selection? imposing order on the jews, betraying his allies, then imposing order or fellow germans, and then eventually turned on his own men/imposing order? hitler exited for the greater good of humanity as to sovereign's character is identical.

noo...no he didn't. He thought he was making the world better by Killing off undesirables. he thought he was doing the work of natural selection not imposing order on chaos. He knew very well what he was doing.  he wasn't bringing order to the world he was simply bringing it into enlightenment and a new golden age at his hands reviving the old roman empire. Not the same. very not the same.

[darth_lopez]

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

Basically the Reapers are saving the entire Galaxy by preventing Organic life from reaching the point where they can destroy entire Planets and Stars.

because stars don't naturally destroy themselves or anything going supernova... so yeah. good reasons to sympathize for why defective machines should be able to exterminate you when ever they believe they have the rights to.

Hey I didn't say it was a perfect theory. Besides stars going 'Nova or entire planets getting destroyed by asteroids is pretty rare. Then again a don't consider the Reapers to be either Machines or defective.

yes lets not forget plenty of stars live for millions of years they don't go nova in 50,000 and that's natural the reapers may be experimenting on something to prevent it from happening using dark energy. it might have gone funky or something with heastroms sun thus accelerating it's aging rather than slowing it

[Enfuego]

The Reapers, as a hybrid life form, have no ability to procreate in the traditional sexual/asexual sense.  Instead, they need the biological/genetic material of other races to create more Reapers.  They allow the sentient races of the galaxy to "discover" the Mass Relays and the Citadel as a way to determine the most worthy fodder for the next generation of Reapers, then they appear to harvest these, destroy whatever they don't need, and then re-seed the galaxy.  The entire galaxy is essentially their garden, and they "consume" each crop to create new Reapers.

[Enfuego]

lovgreno wrote...

Processed organics are not necesarily what they "feed" on. The main power source of the reapers are a huge element zero reactor,

And just what do you think Element Zero is?  Element Zero is the residue left by sentient life.  Hence why it's only found on planets that currently or formerly supported sentient life.

Element Zero is Soylent Green, and Soylent Green is people.

Modifié par Enfuego, 18 juillet 2010 - 08:41 .

[maegi46]

Enfuego wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

Processed organics are not necesarily what they "feed" on. The main power source of the reapers are a huge element zero reactor,

And just what do you think Element Zero is?  Element Zero is the residue left by sentient life.  Hence why it's only found on planets that currently or formerly supported sentient life.

Element Zero is Soylent Green, and Soylent Green is people.

From the mass effect wiki:
Element Zero[/b] (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as
'eezo', is a substance that, when subjected to an electrical current,
releases dark energy which can be manipulated into a mass effect field, raising or
lowering the mass of all objects within that field. A positive current
increases mass, a negative current decreases it. This 'mass effect' is
used in countless ways, from generating artificial gravity to
manufacturing high-strength construction materials. It is most
prominently used to enable faster-than-light
space travel. When humans discovered the Prothean
ruins on Mars,
they also discovered refined element zero that the Protheans had left behind. It enabled research
into FTL ship drives before the Charon Relay was discovered.
Eezo is generated when solid matter, such as a planet, is affected by the energy of a star
going supernova. The material is common in the asteroid debris that
orbits neutron stars and pulsars. These are dangerous places to mine,
requiring extensive use of robotics, telepresence, and shielding to
survive the intense radiation from the dead star. Only a few major corporations can afford the set-up costs
required to work these primary sources. Some planets have small eezo
deposits or coalesced around a larger deposit during their formation.
While these secondary sources are safer to mine, the yield from the ore
is not as large. There are rumours that the Nemean Abyss has particularly rich eezo deposits.


So while it can be left by sentient life, it isn't required to make it. What is required is a supernova and solid matter.

Modifié par maegi46, 20 juillet 2010 - 08:42 .

[neophyte12]

my theory is that some race decided that they wanted to live forever somehow or found that they had reached their peak of natural evolution, so they decided to make themselves super-duper "immortal" machine. then they/it decided that they would like to be joined in their immortality/higher state of being so they allowed other species to develop naturally, then free them from their imperfect forms by "ascending" them...I'm assuming they pick the species that is most powerful/advanced (picked humans because they saw how bad*** shepard was?



or it could be reproduction, but that seems boring and doesn't explain their origins



but most likely their motives have altered over the millennia, and we may never know the original purpose

[Spartas Husky]

why do they do it....why not do it??? lol

[PWENER]

My two theories...



1. Dark space gets really boring



or......



2. Their dicks...