443 réponses à ce sujet

[AbounI]

filaminstrel wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

That was the impression I got from the podcast.  What might have been said was that the 360 was the main design platform for the consoles only.  I'll be there tomorrow so I'll get to hear this for myself.  I'll try not to get to distracted by all the newness.

I just find it hard to believe they're making a PC version and a console version - the comabt may be different between the 2, but from the article where Muzyka mentions its much easier to port from console to PC, thats why people are freaking out. 

Be sure to grill Laidlaw and company about the PC version!

Yeah, and if they confirm they're focusing on the 360 version... grill them on a grill!

But don't you think they're focusing on the 360 version, because it's the platform that need most of work, and not the easier in the same time.Why focus on the PC if it doesn't need as much work as the 360.The more works it need, the more time it demands.And DA2 is coming in only in a few months, so I understand why they choose to work first on a platform that demand lot of work and time.
The gameplay on PC, as it was said, will not be changed in comparaison with the console, so why focus on the PC.
For me, it seems to be a logical thing

[Brockololly]

AbounI wrote...

But don't you think they're focusing on the 360 version, because it's the platform that need most of work, and not the easier in the same time.Why focus on the PC if it doesn't need as much work as the 360.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it goes deeper than just "leaving the PC version alone." I do not think that BIoWare is simultaneously developing a PC version and a console version- if they are, they must be rolling in money. The reality is that they are likely making any large scale design changes from graphics to combat to dialogue to the size of the game itself, with the console's limitations in mind. Then they're porting that work over to the PC.

My question is, what are they doing once they've ported the console version over to the PC? I'm skeptical that they'll put the extra time and money into the PC version to make it stand out when they could just ship it out and not worry about reviewers calling the PC version superior again.

If ME2's PC port is any indication, they might brush up the UI a bit, but the fundamental design choices made with the console in mind won't change. So coming from Origins which was built from the ground up as a PC game to DA2 which is built with the consoles in mind is a step down for a PC gamer.

AbounI wrote...

The gameplay on PC, as it was said, will not be changed in comparaison with the console, so why focus on the PC.
For me, it seems to be a logical thing

I'm fine with them fixing up the console version, but by porting the foundation of the console version over to the PC, they're effectively lowering the quality of the PC version too, just to get things on an even playing field.

[Spazztik]

Brockololly wrote...

I'm fine with them fixing up the console version, but by porting the foundation of the console version over to the PC, they're effectively lowering the quality of the PC version too, just to get things on an even playing field.

That is my fear. It has happened on different games previously (though not particularly from bioware from what I understand). Because I am an overly obsessed Dragon Age fan now, I don't wanna see it happen, especially when I love the pc version of Origins so freakin much.

[Biotic Budah]

Brockololly wrote...

LovelyLittleLeprechauns wrote...

Hopefully it means they are just improving the console game not changing the PC game

The problem is that whatever changes they make with the consoles as lead will just be ported over to the PC, with little optimization- or at least not a ground up design focus for PC like you had with Origins. I'd like to believe its not true, but sadly every design choice and change from Origins to DA2 seems catered to rectify weaknesses of the console version of Origins, not make the PC version of DA any better.

I'm hoping I'm wrong, but given the woeful state of console to PC ports, this sucks if true and may just be a deal breaker for me.

Business decision. They sold more Xbox 360 versions than PC. Some of you sound like you think they'll be abandoning PC, which they surely will not. I think they went for the big money maker first, and will just let the rest catch up. The thing is they do have the capability to make an Xbox version that is almost indistiguishable from the PC from a graphics standpoint. I've seen some new games coming out and that is the truth.
So I agree, I think this may be why they are going this route.

[Lintanis]

If DA2 is like origins then Bioware wont be working on the PS3 version by them selves they have Edge of Reality working on it as well dont know if they worked on the Xbox version.  So might be possible for them to work on seperate versions for PC and Console 

[tmp7704]

Brockololly wrote...

The reality is that they are likely making any large scale design changes from graphics to combat to dialogue to the size of the game itself, with the console's limitations in mind. Then they're porting that work over to the PC.

Considering this is really no different from DAO (seeing how there's no difference between them save for higher resolution textures available on PC) isn't that fretting much over nothing, though? Unless of course you're frustrated with the quality of DAO design, dialogue etc as well.

[Brockololly]

Biotic Budah wrote..

Business decision. They sold more Xbox 360 versions than PC.

But do we know that? It very well may be true, but I don't believe they've ever broken down the sales numbers from Origins between PC and consoles.

Biotic Budah wrote..
Some of you sound like you think they'll be abandoning PC, which they surely will not. I think they went for the big money maker first, and will just let the rest catch up.

By just porting the console version to PC, they would basically be abandoning the PC-centric development we had with Origins. Take ME2 on the PC- it works fine but its painfully obvious its a console port, as it is lacking simple features which a game made for the PC would have. Thats what I'm worried about with DA2. Whether or not they bother with a toolset is another big indicator as to how much focus they'll be giving the PC version as well.

Biotic Budah wrote..
The thing is they do have the capability to make an Xbox version that is almost indistiguishable from the PC from a graphics standpoint. I've seen some new games coming out and that is the truth.

If they're building the game from the ground up on the consoles, they can no doubt make it a very good looking game. But if they made it from the ground up on the PC, they could make it better than a console could ever look. Consoles are basically just dated PCs with fixed hardware- thats not a jab at consoles, thats just the truth. Fact is that given that fixed hardware, its impossible for them to do DX11 or even DX10 effects like a PC could.

The hardware limitations of the consoles go beyond graphics though- the level design and memory considerations as far as number of enemies and diverse armor all play into how the game will turn out. And with those considerations being catered to the consoles, that doesn't bode well for the PC.

[Brockololly]

tmp7704 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

The reality is that they are likely making any large scale design changes from graphics to combat to dialogue to the size of the game itself, with the console's limitations in mind. Then they're porting that work over to the PC.

Considering this is really no different from DAO (seeing how there's no difference between them save for higher resolution textures available on PC) isn't that fretting much over nothing, though? Unless of course you're frustrated with the quality of DAO design, dialogue etc as well.

I don't know- its speculation on my part until we see some PC gameplay. But I believe the consoles had worse textures due to harware limitations, the combat was scaled down as they couldn't process as many enemies on screen as the PC, and so on.

What worries me though is that while Orgins was PC ported to console, this time its likely console to PC. So take the art style change- it was done with the idea that a simpler aesthetic would be easier for the console hardware to cope with thus allowing more enemies on the screen. Yet, the PC version already was ok with lots of enemies on the screen- so is that really a PC minded improvement at all? Or the textures- the PC version of Origins had much better textures than the console version. If you look at ME2, the textures there are atrocious outside of the face models, even though PC's could no doubt have dealt with higher res textures all around, like ME1 had.

I'm just very skeptical that BioWare will put the extra effort into adding PC minded features and design elements suited to the PC if their lead platform is the 360.

[tmp7704]

Brockololly wrote...

I don't know- its speculation on my part until we see some PC gameplay. But I believe the consoles had worse textures due to harware limitations, the combat was scaled down as they couldn't process as many enemies on screen as the PC, and so on.

Textures are generally done high-res by the artists and then downscaled, so what exact form they take on console doesn't limit the PC version from having access to that higher res version, ports or not. Similar for combat -- my understanding is rather, the combat on console was scaled down because of limited ability to command more than one person of your team at once. Since the PC version retains the tactical combat, i'm not expecting changes in this area.

What worries me though is that while Orgins was PC ported to console, this time its likely console to PC.

It would make absolutely no sense from development standpoint -- this would require trying to gut the console port from its console-specific features and to re-implement all these things they already have done and fully functional in the original game. It is far more likely they have two separate code branches -- one for PC, one for console and they work on them as they see fit. Some of changes will be universal and possible to apply to both branches, some (like control schemes and whatnot) would be branch-specific.

So take the art style change- it was done with the idea that a simpler aesthetic would be easier for the console hardware to cope with thus allowing more enemies on the screen.

I haven't seen a dev say anything like that, every time they discuss the aesthetic changes they say it's to give DA its own, distinct look. If you don't believe them then it's your choice i guess, but i think presenting your own speculation as fact is going bit too far.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Since there seems to be some concern about lead platform, I can dispel a myth for you: it's not actually that hard to develop on all three platforms once you have an engine that actually works on all three platforms. It's just a matter of ensuring the bug fixes and optimizations work on all three, and then generating assets that are both scaleable (as in they can move to be optimized across all three platforms) and functional.



And since we already HAVE an engine that works on PS3, PC and 360, we can, in fact, develop on all three. Dragon Age II is "built," tested and run every day on all three.

[wicked_being]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Since there seems to be some concern about lead platform, I can dispel a myth for you: it's not actually that hard to develop on all three platforms once you have an engine that actually works on all three platforms. It's just a matter of ensuring the bug fixes and optimizations work on all three, and then generating assets that are both scaleable (as in they can move to be optimized across all three platforms) and functional.

And since we already HAVE an engine that works on PS3, PC and 360, we can, in fact, develop on all three. Dragon Age II is "built," tested and run every day on all three.

I was worried about the whole "xbox is the lead platform" issue. Probably majority of the people here are PC gamers and are worried about an xbox version of DA2 is going to be ported to PC and thus will result to it being dumbed down and having lower quality. As a PS3 gamer, I share the same fear as you PC people. But thanks Mike, that's great news.

[ENHbrometheus]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Since there seems to be some concern about lead platform, I can dispel a myth for you: it's not actually that hard to develop on all three platforms once you have an engine that actually works on all three platforms. It's just a matter of ensuring the bug fixes and optimizations work on all three, and then generating assets that are both scaleable (as in they can move to be optimized across all three platforms) and functional.

And since we already HAVE an engine that works on PS3, PC and 360, we can, in fact, develop on all three. Dragon Age II is "built," tested and run every day on all three.

That's encouraging news. Still upset it's not entirely pc centric as it was last time, but then again that's just me being a pc gamer first before a console gamer. Time to get out of panic mode.

[epoch_]

ENHbrometheus wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Since there seems to be some concern about lead platform, I can dispel a myth for you: it's not actually that hard to develop on all three platforms once you have an engine that actually works on all three platforms. It's just a matter of ensuring the bug fixes and optimizations work on all three, and then generating assets that are both scaleable (as in they can move to be optimized across all three platforms) and functional.

And since we already HAVE an engine that works on PS3, PC and 360, we can, in fact, develop on all three. Dragon Age II is "built," tested and run every day on all three.

That's encouraging news. Still upset it's not entirely pc centric as it was last time, but then again that's just me being a pc gamer first before a console gamer. Time to get out of panic mode.

Indeed. Nerd rage subsiding.








For the moment.

[epoch_]

Kordaris wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

ENHbrometheus wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Since there seems to be some concern about lead platform, I can dispel a myth for you: it's not actually that hard to develop on all three platforms once you have an engine that actually works on all three platforms. It's just a matter of ensuring the bug fixes and optimizations work on all three, and then generating assets that are both scaleable (as in they can move to be optimized across all three platforms) and functional.

And since we already HAVE an engine that works on PS3, PC and 360, we can, in fact, develop on all three. Dragon Age II is "built," tested and run every day on all three.

That's encouraging news. Still upset it's not entirely pc centric as it was last time, but then again that's just me being a pc gamer first before a console gamer. Time to get out of panic mode.

Indeed. Nerd rage subsiding.








For the moment.

Hardly. The player limitations stay, from 7 origins we are now cut to only 1. We have no choice of race, we have no choice of our family. DA2 is taking a huge step back from the player's freedom that DA1 introduced us into. And the name Hawke is seen as failure by many on forums.

Not worried about any of that because Bioware always does a good job on that. And I only ever played a Cousland, anyways. My only concern atm, is gameplay.

[ENHbrometheus]

Kordaris wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

ENHbrometheus wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Since there seems to be some concern about lead platform, I can dispel a myth for you: it's not actually that hard to develop on all three platforms once you have an engine that actually works on all three platforms. It's just a matter of ensuring the bug fixes and optimizations work on all three, and then generating assets that are both scaleable (as in they can move to be optimized across all three platforms) and functional.

And since we already HAVE an engine that works on PS3, PC and 360, we can, in fact, develop on all three. Dragon Age II is "built," tested and run every day on all three.

That's encouraging news. Still upset it's not entirely pc centric as it was last time, but then again that's just me being a pc gamer first before a console gamer. Time to get out of panic mode.

Indeed. Nerd rage subsiding.








For the moment.

Hardly. The player limitations stay, from 7 origins we are now cut to only 1. We have no choice of race, we have no choice of our family. DA2 is taking a huge step back from the player's freedom that DA1 introduced us into. And the name Hawke is seen as failure by many on forums.

Yes, but the choice lost from a little menu at the beginning of the game is gained through a campaign that will probably ask more difficult and varied questions of us that will shape our journey more than that ever did, considering the decade spanning story.

At least I hope.

[Avilan II]

Kordaris wrote...

ENHbrometheus wrote...

Yes, but the choice lost from a little menu at the beginning of the game is gained through a campaign that will probably ask more difficult and varied questions of us that will shape our journey more than that ever did, considering the decade spanning story.

It won't save us from being forced into playing the life of the peasant Hawke.

You know, I find this fixation with the origin stories so odd. Besides, what's wrong with peasants?

[xrs09]

i would like to know if there is a female option, that is all i want to know lol D:

[ENHbrometheus]

Avilan II wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

ENHbrometheus wrote...

Yes, but the choice lost from a little menu at the beginning of the game is gained through a campaign that will probably ask more difficult and varied questions of us that will shape our journey more than that ever did, considering the decade spanning story.

It won't save us from being forced into playing the life of the peasant Hawke.

You know, I find this fixation with the origin stories so odd. Besides, what's wrong with peasants?

It's more of a choice thing, where in DA:O choice was a huge part of the experience for most. Whereas in this Hawke is a character that is unchangeable in terms of race and origin.

Modifié par ENHbrometheus, 24 juillet 2010 - 07:57 .

[ENHbrometheus]

xrs09 wrote...

i would like to know if there is a female option, that is all i want to know lol D:

It's been confirmed there definitely is, with full voice acting for her also I'm quite sure.

[fchopin]

xrs09 wrote...

i would like to know if there is a female option, that is all i want to know lol D:

Yes, there is a female option.

[Avilan II]

Kordaris wrote...

Avilan II wrote...

You know, I find this fixation with the origin stories so odd. Besides, what's wrong with peasants?

Well the origins determines who your character is. In DA2 you have no choice of your origin(unlike you had in DAO). You have to play the peasant Hawke from the village.

Well you are right there. You play one of 6 pre-determined characters who's background you can't control. That is 5 times better than playing one (1) pre-determined character who's background you can't control.

Big whoop.