372 réponses à ce sujet

[tmelange]

virumor wrote...

I'm all for the titanium catsuit for females:

This is a little too...reptilian? Raptor-ish? For me, lol. Somehow, it squicks me, rather than make me think sexy thoughts.

[Games4ever]

Shiroukai wrote...

I hope Bioware will make some of the female armour look like something like this.

This must be the best looking armour ever!

[Deviija]

wikkedjoker wrote...
I guess the issue also boils down to this, it is simply easier to overly sexualize the female body than it is for the male, short of throwing a Hebrew international out there, or making them flamboyantly gay. don’t get me wrong it can be done, its just not as easy. The female body form an art stand point looks softer and more inviting, worm as the male body looks hard, and is more a symbol of violence and strength. You see Superman and Batman in a comic and you think protection, and strength. You see Wonder Woman or Power Girl and depending on the art you think A LOT of different things.

Let me first say that I appreciate your response and that you were not overly aggressive or dismissive.  I enjoy having discussions, most definitely, and think that forum etiquette is a lost commodity.  

That said, I do think that we've come to an impass and view things quite differently.  All I wish to add to the above quote was that it depends upon context.  Many cultures throughout our history valued the beauty and sexualization of both men and women's bodies.  It can be done -- just by looking in art museums we can see that -- and it is not something that automagically makes a person or character 'gay' or 'gay looking' (which is pretty stereotypical to say) if they are a man that enjoys showing skin or flaunting what they have in something they find flattering.  

The main point, however, is that I am pro-sexualization of both sexes.  Sex does sell -- to both men and women.  So, my solution to these issues, as an RPG that emphasizes customization, is merely to offer options.  For those that like our ladies covered in practical attire/skimpy attire, and those of us that like our men in practical attire/skimpy attire.  

(BioWare's DAO was fairly lovely about depicting armor on men and women for the most part.   A far cry better than the majority of other game companies out there, so I do give props and appreciation where it is due.)  

[Quercus]

Deviija wrote...

wikkedjoker wrote...
I guess the issue also boils down to this, it is simply easier to overly sexualize the female body than it is for the male, short of throwing a Hebrew international out there, or making them flamboyantly gay. don’t get me wrong it can be done, its just not as easy. The female body form an art stand point looks softer and more inviting, worm as the male body looks hard, and is more a symbol of violence and strength. You see Superman and Batman in a comic and you think protection, and strength. You see Wonder Woman or Power Girl and depending on the art you think A LOT of different things.

Let me first say that I appreciate your response and that you were not overly aggressive or dismissive.  I enjoy having discussions, most definitely, and think that forum etiquette is a lost commodity.  

That said, I do think that we've come to an impass and view things quite differently.  All I wish to add to the above quote was that it depends upon context.  Many cultures throughout our history valued the beauty and sexualization of both men and women's bodies.  It can be done -- just by looking in art museums we can see that -- and it is not something that automagically makes a person or character 'gay' or 'gay looking' (which is pretty stereotypical to say) if they are a man that enjoys showing skin or flaunting what they have in something they find flattering.  

The main point, however, is that I am pro-sexualization of both sexes.  Sex does sell -- to both men and women.  So, my solution to these issues, as an RPG that emphasizes customization, is merely to offer options.  For those that like our ladies covered in practical attire/skimpy attire, and those of us that like our men in practical attire/skimpy attire.  

(BioWare's DAO was fairly lovely about depicting armor on men and women for the most part.   A far cry better than the majority of other game companies out there, so I do give props and appreciation where it is due.)  

Sexy male armour?

[Tirigon]

Shiroukai wrote...

Lolz.

Nice.

[Koffeegirl]

Tirigon wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

Lolz.

Nice.

LOL, that's great.

[tmelange]

Koffeegirl wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

Lolz.

Nice.

LOL, that's great.

He sort of looks like he's missing a package. Stick a sock in there, dude!

[Addai]

Tirigon wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
I didn´t mind that because the only time my PC was naked was during sex.

I would be surprised otherwise.

Never go to an Alistair appreciation thread then. I have seen Alistair dueling Loghain wearing nothing but a Barbarian helmet and a shield:sick:

That is a particular subset of fangirl craziness.  Don't knock it if you don't understand. 

[Tirigon]

Addai67 wrote...

That is a particular subset of fangirl craziness.  Don't knock it if you don't understand. 

Oh I DO understand. What do you think how I would dress Shianni when she bottles dat ass Vaughan?:wub:

Alas, I can´t......... Damn whoever decided Shianni is not a party member.

[Andaius20]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Saibh wrote...

/headdesk:pinched:

Yes, yes, I did mean the devs, not the writers. I tend to refer to the writers more often than not, since the writing is what I care about most, as opposed to animation, art design, and such, and I slipped here.

*sigh* Of all the things Mary Kirby can acknowledge me for...

If it's any consolation, I would more than likely write you an awesome looking, yet practical and functional, suit of female armor, if for some reason I had obtained the power to make armor entirely out of words.

Now we need to see some plate mail with a "writen word" motif all over it.

[Tirigon]

virumor wrote...

I'm all for the titanium catsuit for females:

Is this from a PC game? If yes, which?

It is hot.

[rexil]

Tirigon wrote...

virumor wrote...

I'm all for the titanium catsuit for females:

Is this from a PC game? If yes, which?

It is hot.

It's a cover of a Comic book. I don't think the Witchblade series has any game.

Modifié par rexil, 18 juillet 2010 - 11:02 .

[Tirigon]

rexil wrote...


It's a cover of a Comic book. I don't think the Witchblade series has any game.

That´s a loss, really.

[Jonnybear84]

SirOccam wrote...

I imagine she'll look similar to Bethany (assuming that the one in the picture is indeed Bethany):

I might be going slightly off topic with this but i've been racking my brains trying to remember who the woman in this picture reminded me of, and the proverbial light bulb just went on above my head and I had to post it somewhere.

http://www.imdb.com/...77824/nm0492345

Quite in keeping i suppose with what someone earlier in the thread mentioned about the mediteranean look for DA 2's characters.

P.S. Spartacus FTW....also liking the male Hawke taking inspiration from Gerard Butlers Spartan Warrior (king leonidas??) from  300.....though thankfully wearing more clothes lol.

Modifié par Jonnybear84, 18 juillet 2010 - 11:25 .

[Pocketgb]

Not only do I hope to see some FemHawke earlier this time around, it'd be cool if she got a cool looking preset face as well.

[Wynne]

Bethany is sooo pretty! I hope if you change your coloring, hers changes too, but even if it didn't, I would love for my PC to look similar to her.

I actually love the default appearance of Mike Hawke (hur, hur, hur). His beard is fun! I usually hate beards, but not Mike's. I always felt sort of annoyed at Sheploo, but after seeing Mikey, there's just something innately likeable about the boy. I still want to see LadyHawke in action, but Mike is cool, too.

Altima Darkspells wrote...

I feel your pain, Koffeegirl.  After a certain point, only marketing to insecure pre-teens because women aren't a large enough demographic becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Agreed. I love that Bioware treats us so well, but I just wish they would make a bigger fuss about the fact that you can play a female. There are games of theirs that I've mentioned to girls I knew and I had to actually tell them, "but you can play a female, too." The reaction I got was two-pronged: 1--surprise, 2--"I guess I'll check it out, then." A lot of women naturally gravitate towards games where you can play as a female--if the option is given between a game where you can play only a male and a game where you can choose gender, gender can be the deciding factor. Why not make sure you draw in women as well as men?

Deviija wrote...

Yes, I am pro-sexy and hypersexualized armor. On Men.

*lol & high-fives* Hell yeah! Gothic Mesh Armor of Manly-Hip-Hugging +12 ftw! 

On a more serious note, I totally agree with what you said. I don't want it to look ridiculous, and I think mages have a lot more justification for wearing very little than warriors, but it should cut both ways. Sort of like the robes in DAO that bared some man-chest and arms. Guess what my male elven mage is wearing right now? The muscles were way too big to be realistic, I wish they were smaller, but it still looks very nice. I don't mind if they do a bit of sexualizing, but sans double standard, alstublieft. And I do think it should correlate directly to class and the protection level of the armor. Why didn't we see male Dalish midriff? That was pretty silly and not really very fun.

There are ways to make armor flatter a man's body that don't look gay. I joked about the Gothic Mesh Armor, but seriously, there's some gothic stuff out there that looks awesome. And some robes just hang open. How hot is a guy in pants and an open robe? It just invites you to slip your arms around his waist... mage dudes could wear those. Really, there are ways to make clothing for males sexy without it looking stupid; same with clothing for females, and I'd love to see them find that happy medium. Realistic, but tastefully appealing wherever appropriate. Although, there should always be some form of Morrigan robes--for both genders.

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

I love you guys. I do.

I just wanted to quote that to make myself feel better. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Does give one a warm and fuzzy feeling, eh?

slimgrin wrote...

 Here's a woman done right in a game. No excessive skin, no bikini armor, but there's no denying her appeal.

I hope FemHawke has as much class.

*awesome picture of Triss looking super-badass*

Hell yeah! I love what they did for her for The Witcher 2. That game is right up there with DA2 for me; I can't wait to play it. I prefer playing female in most cases, but Geralt is an interesting and sympathetic protagonist--I've taken Witcher character tests and I always come out as Geralt personality-wise, which is interesting. Plus, they are kind enough to make the male elven rebel leaders really hot. *roguish grin*

Triss really does look great in that outfit. It's very non-stereotypical gear for a sorceress, too.

Modifié par Wynne, 19 juillet 2010 - 01:20 .

[Saibh]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

I hope Bioware will make some of the female armour look like something like this.

I really like the color...and *gasp* her hair! Love that.

Looks incredibly stupid. Such armor is useless. Should enemy try to gut her, cut off her legs or slice throat or even go for a heart stab - he will succeed.

Hair. Her haaaaaiiiirrrrrrrrrrr! (Sorry, I've spent a lot of time seething in rage over Miranda and Morrigan's hair...)

And lilac is my favorite color--I like this color, on that material. As for the actual armor, I said nothing about that.

[Wynne]

Yeah, that kind of armor is just pure fetishism. Sure, it's distracting--for straight males, but what happens when you're fighting a gay dude or a straight woman? It's like, "Hey! Here are all my vital organs, wanna stick a sword in 'em? That's cool, right?"



If you were REALLY going to go for distraction, you'd wear armor with cleavage painted onto it, so when they get close they either start drooling and give YOU the advantage, or they make a careless swing at what they think are your vitals, and while they waste time going, "Whuh? That's metal, not tender lady-flesh!" you go, "HAH! Moron!" and counterattack.

[Aryck the One]

ColeMR wrote...

Aryck1095 V2 wrote...
Wierd, that girl looks a lot like Katara from Avatar:The Last Airbender TV show. The hair style is exactly the same, fro what I can see in this screenshot...

I'm going to let you in on a secret: Long brown hair was around long before that cartoon.
Historically speaking, at least a a year or so, eh.

I'm talking about the "hair loops", genius. The two looped bangs that go around to the back of her head? Only Katara has that style. Looks just like her.

On another note, scantily clad armor for DA2? NO. Just... no. The only scant armor should be Dalish leather, nothing. And the stuff in these screenshots looks retarded.

[Deviija]

Wynne wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

I feel your pain, Koffeegirl.  After a certain point, only marketing to insecure pre-teens because women aren't a large enough demographic becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Agreed. I love that Bioware treats us so well, but I just wish they would make a bigger fuss about the fact that you can play a female. There are games of theirs that I've mentioned to girls I knew and I had to actually tell them, "but you can play a female, too." The reaction I got was two-pronged: 1--surprise, 2--"I guess I'll check it out, then." A lot of women naturally gravitate towards games where you can play as a female--if the option is given between a game where you can play only a male and a game where you can choose gender, gender can be the deciding factor. Why not make sure you draw in women as well as men?

I say it often on the forums as well and it is worth repeating:  It is like a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you market to one specific demographic then you are going to get more of that specific demographic.  It is harder for other demographics (like women) to look at such guy-heavy marketing and think, 'Oh yes, this is totally a game for me.'  Just like the excuse/'marketing fact' that men like to see iconic figures as men/dudes on box covers/whatevs to appeal to them and better relate to them... well, yeah, this works exactly the same for women as well.  Why not promote both genders?  I'd just hate to see DA2 take its marketing cues from ME2 (ME's franchise in general, but ME2 specifically) with how it pretty blatantly did not discuss or advertise that you could be FemShep on its website or in interviews.  That Shepard could, in fact, be a woman.   

We fans know we can be female in these games, sure, but we're the addicts and the forumites that are keeping our fingers on the pulse of BioWare.  The average gamer Jane and John will not really know until they see the advertising, read the interviews/previews/reviews, look at the websites, etc.  And hopefully there will be ample promotion/mentions that one can be Lord or Lady Hawke, to draw in guys and (more) girls, and not this misleading viewpoint that Hawke is default dude and dude only.  (I'm still correcting people that DudeHawke is not default and a set male protagonist.) 

[tmelange]

Deviija wrote...

I say it often on the forums as well and it is worth repeating:  It is like a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you market to one specific demographic then you are going to get more of that specific demographic.  It is harder for other demographics (like women) to look at such guy-heavy marketing and think, 'Oh yes, this is totally a game for me.'  Just like the excuse/'marketing fact' that men like to see iconic figures as men/dudes on box covers/whatevs to appeal to them and better relate to them... well, yeah, this works exactly the same for women as well.  Why not promote both genders?  I'd just hate to see DA2 take its marketing cues from ME2 (ME's franchise in general, but ME2 specifically) with how it pretty blatantly did not discuss or advertise that you could be FemShep on its website or in interviews.  That Shepard could, in fact, be a woman.   

We fans know we can be female in these games, sure, but we're the addicts and the forumites that are keeping our fingers on the pulse of BioWare.  The average gamer Jane and John will not really know until they see the advertising, read the interviews/previews/reviews, look at the websites, etc.  And hopefully there will be ample promotion/mentions that one can be Lord or Lady Hawke, to draw in guys and (more) girls, and not this misleading viewpoint that Hawke is default dude and dude only.  (I'm still correcting people that DudeHawke is not default and a set male protagonist.) 

I'm sure there's some marketing guru at BW that thinks a targeted marketing campaign that only features the default male Hawke is the way to keep the message focused, but I think that's not the right way to go for this franchise. I can see what they were after with ME but in DA, a more traditional RPG, I can't see it hurting anything to demonstrate both options. I don't think it lessens the cool factor at all. In fact, a marketing campaign featuring both and done *well* can be unique and buzz-worthy. I don't see the down side.

[TheSimsMaster]

It looks like our friend aimo has done her own rendition of Lady Hawke.  

Modifié par TheSimsMaster, 19 juillet 2010 - 02:13 .

[tmelange]

TheSimsMaster wrote...





It looks like our friend aimo has done her own rendition of Lady Hawke.  

I think this works quite well, and I can't imagine anyone seeing that and not wondering what it's about if s/he has an interest in games. I just don't see the downside in this type of franchise.

Modifié par tmelange, 19 juillet 2010 - 02:24 .

[Saibh]

Aryck1095 V2 wrote...

ColeMR wrote...

Aryck1095 V2 wrote...
Wierd, that girl looks a lot like Katara from Avatar:The Last Airbender TV show. The hair style is exactly the same, fro what I can see in this screenshot...

I'm going to let you in on a secret: Long brown hair was around long before that cartoon.
Historically speaking, at least a a year or so, eh.

I'm talking about the "hair loops", genius. The two looped bangs that go around to the back of her head? Only Katara has that style. Looks just like her.

I'm not being condescending, but no. Fandom needs to remember "popular" doesn't mean "Ur".

Modifié par Saibh, 19 juillet 2010 - 02:40 .

[Addai]

Deviija wrote...

We fans know we can be female in these games, sure, but we're the addicts and the forumites that are keeping our fingers on the pulse of BioWare.  The average gamer Jane and John will not really know until they see the advertising, read the interviews/previews/reviews, look at the websites, etc.  And hopefully there will be ample promotion/mentions that one can be Lord or Lady Hawke, to draw in guys and (more) girls, and not this misleading viewpoint that Hawke is default dude and dude only.  (I'm still correcting people that DudeHawke is not default and a set male protagonist.) 

I think they're bound to some realities here.  If you market a game to women, men will start to think it's a chick's game and won't play it.  Women don't have this hang-up to the same degree.  Yes, I know I'm generalizing blah blah but it's the truth.  If you look at DAO, there is a lot there for the ladies.  They just have to be sort of hush-hush about that fact.

Anyway, I for one don't care to see femHawke in the promotions because it will just remind me that I'm going to have to play Bioware's character rather than my own.

Modifié par Addai67, 19 juillet 2010 - 02:48 .