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Bioware and Lady Hawke and screenshots


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#301
wikkedjoker

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Oh I love you people

Feminism **** YEAH, coming again to save the mother ****ing day.

Oh God  you people are wonderful. I love feminists, because only in a feminist’s mind could you take the most trivial thing and twist it, and pervert it, into something male and chauvinistic.

I mean lets think about this realistically, if I was some dude drafted in the army and haven’t seen a wench or woman in months, I’m pretty sure scantly clad armor would catch me off guard. I would probably be sitting there with my mouth gaping open, thinking ‘Boooobs…’ than reacting to the woman about to initiate stabbity death upon me.  Call me sexist , but  hell I’m a man I like swords, explosions, death and a little T’n’A.

I love all the people in here trying to be all nonchalant about it too, saying yes it should be equal. Look I mean think about a guy in scantily clad armor is like a guy who sparkles, sorry ladies he’s just not that into you. . . In fact he wants your boyfriend more than he wants you. He might help you pick out curtains and color coordinate your bathroom, but he’s not going to. . . Do the Antivan milk sandwich with you . .If you catch my drift. I mean sure if two dude giving one another, the back door search and seizure is your thing than whatever, but doesn’t that undermine your entire point of objectification or some bull**** like that?

And as far as practicality goes  think about it, and think about it hard, your average woman is not going to be the same size as your average man. Facts of life people, men grow bigger than woman. And so the man is probably going to be the Tank of the group. Even DAO pointed this out, there is no female tanks, unless you make one. Your females are a Bard and two Mages, who are not tanks.
    
Physically speaking woman are lighter, more agile, and smaller. Its not that I couldn’t see a woman using a full set of plate armor and trying to tank-cat-into-Mordor. But realistically speaking, the first guy she met in the same armor, with the same weapon, the only difference is there physical attributes, the guy would win. Simply because he’s physically stronger.

However you take that same woman and put her in clothing that is lighter, and less confining, and easer to move in give her a few daggers and the key to the back door and bam there ya go.

AKA do the job your best suited for.

You wouldn’t see the Hulk playing spy.

Anyways I’m all for sexy armor so much so that I drew some YAY.   

Image IPB

Ladies and Gentlemen, and not ladygentlmen, and men who dress like women feel free to objectify.

#302
Arttis

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Look if you want realistic then if you want full heavy body armor be ready for a very muscular female.If you want realistic plate metal for a skinny woman then you are gonna need to get rid of some metal.

#303
Riona45

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Deviija wrote...
And hopefully there will be ample promotion/mentions that one can be Lord or Lady Hawke, to draw in guys and (more) girls, and not this misleading viewpoint that Hawke is default dude and dude only.  (I'm still correcting people that DudeHawke is not default and a set male protagonist.) 


Yeah, same here!  Yes, *I* know that "it's just marketing," but I'd love to see more girls get into this.  Marketing *does* matter.

#304
Riona45

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wikkedjoker wrote...

Feminism **** YEAH, coming again to save the mother ****ing day.


You don't think women should be respected as much as men?

I love all the people in here trying to be all nonchalant about it too, saying yes it should be equal. Look I mean think about a guy in scantily clad armor is like a guy who sparkles, sorry ladies he’s just not that into you. . . In fact he wants your boyfriend more than he wants you. He might help you pick out curtains and color coordinate your bathroom, but he’s not going to. . . Do the Antivan milk sandwich with you . .If you catch my drift. I mean sure if two dude giving one another, the back door search and seizure is your thing than whatever, but doesn’t that undermine your entire point of objectification or some bull**** like that?


You're a homophobe too?

Modifié par Riona45, 19 juillet 2010 - 03:31 .


#305
tmelange

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Addai67 wrote...

I think they're bound to some realities here.  If you market a game to women, men will start to think it's a chick's game and won't play it.  Women don't have this hang-up to the same degree.  Yes, I know I'm generalizing blah blah but it's the truth.  If you look at DAO, there is a lot there for the ladies.  They just have to be sort of hush-hush about that fact.

Anyway, I for one don't care to see femHawke in the promotions because it will just remind me that I'm going to have to play Bioware's character rather than my own.



IMHO, I don't think that having a marketing campaign targeted to women would impact the campaign targeted to men. It's not as if there would *only* be a woman-targeted campaign, or that the male campaign wouldn;t be the default for mainstream media. The markteting pieces created would be showcased in different places as appropriate. I also think it's a little...silly to presume that games are the only products where the use of a female-oriented marketing campaign to women would impact a guy's buying decision. It's like saying that a guy can't buy a certain car because the advertisement featured in Vogue uses women models instead of men. I would assume that the men would be busy looking at the GQ ad for the same car featuring the male models.

And, even if the guys ended up sometimes viewing the ad featuring the woman model (heaven forbid!), it's a little ridiculous to assume that he can't apply his brain to the situation enough to realize that the ad is only featuring one option, and yes, he can play as a guy. It's not like BW is selling make-up and a guy is just going to tune it out.

I don't really see how making a trailer and a few banners featuring fem!Hawke and talking about the option to play as a female can possibly take away from the male audience. After all, the guys are going to figure out there's a girl in there sooner or later; might as well own it. It's not as if BW is trying to sell a game where the only option is to play a female character a la Lara Croft.

Modifié par tmelange, 19 juillet 2010 - 03:53 .


#306
tmelange

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wikkedjoker wrote...

Oh I love you people

Feminism **** YEAH, coming again to save the mother ****ing day.

Oh God  you people are wonderful. I love feminists, because only in a feminist’s mind could you take the most trivial thing and twist it, and pervert it, into something male and chauvinistic.

I mean lets think about this realistically, if I was some dude drafted in the army and haven’t seen a wench or woman in months, I’m pretty sure scantly clad armor would catch me off guard. I would probably be sitting there with my mouth gaping open, thinking ‘Boooobs…’ than reacting to the woman about to initiate stabbity death upon me.  Call me sexist , but  hell I’m a man I like swords, explosions, death and a little T’n’A.

I love all the people in here trying to be all nonchalant about it too, saying yes it should be equal. Look I mean think about a guy in scantily clad armor is like a guy who sparkles, sorry ladies he’s just not that into you. . . In fact he wants your boyfriend more than he wants you. He might help you pick out curtains and color coordinate your bathroom, but he’s not going to. . . Do the Antivan milk sandwich with you . .If you catch my drift. I mean sure if two dude giving one another, the back door search and seizure is your thing than whatever, but doesn’t that undermine your entire point of objectification or some bull**** like that?

And as far as practicality goes  think about it, and think about it hard, your average woman is not going to be the same size as your average man. Facts of life people, men grow bigger than woman. And so the man is probably going to be the Tank of the group. Even DAO pointed this out, there is no female tanks, unless you make one. Your females are a Bard and two Mages, who are not tanks.
    
Physically speaking woman are lighter, more agile, and smaller. Its not that I couldn’t see a woman using a full set of plate armor and trying to tank-cat-into-Mordor. But realistically speaking, the first guy she met in the same armor, with the same weapon, the only difference is there physical attributes, the guy would win. Simply because he’s physically stronger.

However you take that same woman and put her in clothing that is lighter, and less confining, and easer to move in give her a few daggers and the key to the back door and bam there ya go.

AKA do the job your best suited for.

You wouldn’t see the Hulk playing spy.

Anyways I’m all for sexy armor so much so that I drew some YAY.   

Image IPB

Ladies and Gentlemen, and not ladygentlmen, and men who dress like women feel free to objectify.


Well *handwave* I don't really know what you're talking about, all rambly and ish, so I'm going to ignore all that, but what I would like to say is that I really like your artwork. I like the way you did her face. I think she looks distinct, with a bit of a cat-like influence. It's an artiistic style I would remember. Also, I like her lines, particularly from the hip to the breast, and the muscle definition. I really love the long sleeve and cuff. Bravo!

#307
tmelange

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Riona45 wrote...

wikkedjoker wrote...

Feminism **** YEAH, coming again to save the mother ****ing day.


You don't think women should be respected as much as men?

I love all the people in here trying to be all nonchalant about it too, saying yes it should be equal. Look I mean think about a guy in scantily clad armor is like a guy who sparkles, sorry ladies he’s just not that into you. . . In fact he wants your boyfriend more than he wants you. He might help you pick out curtains and color coordinate your bathroom, but he’s not going to. . . Do the Antivan milk sandwich with you . .If you catch my drift. I mean sure if two dude giving one another, the back door search and seizure is your thing than whatever, but doesn’t that undermine your entire point of objectification or some bull**** like that?


You're a homophobe too?


LMAO. Strike one...strike two...

#308
thegoldfinch

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wikkedjoker wrote...

Oh I love you people

Feminism **** YEAH, coming again to save the mother ****ing day.


Feminism isn't bad. It only gets bad when you get the girls who want men's penises chopped off and that consensual sex is still somehow the censored "r-word" on this site. Yes, they do exist. However, I haven't seen anyone being confrontational in this discussion. I've only seen people being logical.

Skimpy for the sake of skimpy is objectifying. Leather cat suits make sense and are easy on the eyes, so those I am okay with. Chainmail bikinis do not make sense at all in a battle where there are swords and arrows flying amok. The bikinis and similar costumes are there to appease to a large male demographic so that they will dish out cash for that game. It is a basic marketting tactic for games. Sex sells. A major downside is that it turns off a female playerbase because it gives them the impression that that game is a "boys only" club.

That is our issue with the skimpiness. We just want armor that makes practical sense.

I mean lets think about this realistically, if I was some dude drafted in the army and haven’t seen a wench or woman in months, I’m pretty sure scantly clad armor would catch me off guard. I would probably be sitting there with my mouth gaping open, thinking ‘Boooobs…’ than reacting to the woman about to initiate stabbity death upon me.  Call me sexist , but  hell I’m a man I like swords, explosions, death and a little T’n’A.


That's cool. I like well a guy in a suit, slicked back hair, and dark eyes. Mmm. One of the many reasons why I loved Inception, heh.

But I'm going to have to say that you're wrong in your scenario there.

I enjoy reading stories about men and women in wartime and what kind of effects it has on their psyche, because my family is full of military history and the subject is fascinating to me. I can tell you right now that when you're fighting in a field where death is one wrong step - one moment of hesitation away, it doesn't matter if the person with a gun running towards you is a child or a woman - if it's you or her, you will shoot that woman. It's the common, reactionary sense of fight or flight, and a part of being a fighter and survivor.

Being sexy won't save her against battle hardened men. Being trained, being well armed, and being well armored, however, will.

I love all the people in here trying to be all nonchalant about it too, saying yes it should be equal. Look I mean think about a guy in scantily clad armor is like a guy who sparkles, sorry ladies he’s just not that into you. . .


What is this, I don't even -

Was that a jab at Twilight I spotted? Lol. I don't know many ladies on these boards that like that drivel. I vomited a little the first time I forced myself to read through it.

You don't think women should be equal to men? I'm just trying to infer what you're saying in the above quote.

In fact he wants your boyfriend more than he wants you. He might help you pick out curtains and color coordinate your bathroom, but he’s not going to. . . Do the Antivan milk sandwich with you . .If you catch my drift. I mean sure if two dude giving one another, the back door search and seizure is your thing than whatever, but doesn’t that undermine your entire point of objectification or some bull**** like that?


You don't like gay people? You seem pretty eager to make severe stereotypes about them at their expense.

And as far as practicality goes  think about it, and think about it hard, your average woman is not going to be the same size as your average man. Facts of life people, men grow bigger than woman. And so the man is probably going to be the Tank of the group. Even DAO pointed this out, there is no female tanks, unless you make one. Your females are a Bard and two Mages, who are not tanks.


Now THIS I can understand completely. Yes, women are lighter, so it makes sense that there should be a lot of women in, say, the Ferelden army who are archers or other types of rogues. It makes sense and no one ever disputed that.

But it's silly to say that all women ever are light weights. You ever check out those professional weight lifter women? Apply that strength to a combat scenario and I don't think she'd have any trouble lopping off some monster heads. There are some big, tough girls out there just like there are tiny, light men.

But realistically speaking, the first guy she met in the same armor, with the same weapon, the only difference is there physical attributes, the guy would win. Simply because he’s physically stronger.

However you take that same woman and put her in clothing that is lighter, and less confining, and easer to move in give her a few daggers and the key to the back door and bam there ya go.


She wouldn't be in the exact same armor, though.

Like you saw in DA:O, there was a different model for the male and female armor that contoured to their individual bodies. It wasn't like some generic Wal-Mart brand where everyone got the same thing. It stands to logic that the female armor - because there is less of it - would be lighter and the manuverability would be equal, if not higher, than the male version.

I understand the issue about male strength generally being superior, but strength is not the only factor that plays into a fight. There is training, focus, history, and strategy that plays into it as well.

You wouldn’t see the Hulk playing spy.


Hah. I sure would like it see that, though.

I like your drawing, btw. Cute hair.

Modifié par pixieface, 19 juillet 2010 - 04:15 .


#309
tmp7704

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wikkedjoker wrote...

Anyways I’m all for sexy armor so much so that I drew some YAY.   

Image IPB

Possibly wrong picture got posted, there doesn't seem to be any armour on it.

Cute lingerie set, though.

#310
Arttis

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Why does it matter why it is there?

#311
Riona45

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pixieface wrote...


Feminism isn't bad. It only gets bad when you get the girls who want men's penises chopped off and that consensual sex is still somehow the censored "r-word" on this site. Yes, they do exist.


If they do exist, they are so few in number that feminists shouldn't feel like they must qualify every argument they make with a "Don't worry, I don't believe all men should be castrated!" disclaimer.

#312
Kail Ashton

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Koffeegirl wrote...

I know that is very very very early and we have a long time to wait for more screenshots for DA2. I also understand that for marketing purposes that Mike Hawke is the way to go to promote the game to as much of the intended demographic as possible. But maybe when it's closer to release Bioware you could consider giving us just one teeny tiny pic of Lady Hawke's concept art on the DA2 website? Maybe as a Christmas present  as DA 2 will be closer to release then? I know that the majority of DA's audience is male, and I understand why Mike Hawke is the icon........but maybe in the future if you could show us just one little picture of Lady Hawke's concept art that would be really really awesome. I am a girl and DA is my favorite game. If it is not possible I understand and thanks for always making a female PC option in all of your games.


Wait, wait, wait....why the hell are you calling him "mike" hawke? i get lady hawke, but mike hawke??

#313
Arttis

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Skinny women in games wearing heavy armor is unrealistic.

#314
Leonia

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Wow, another thread turns into a feminist debate, how does this keep happening around here? I personally thought the armour in Origins was fine for both genders and based on what we've seen of DA 2 so far, I don't suspect they are going to radically change it. What's all the fuss over? The concept art of Flemeth maybe (which has already been proven to be more sexy than her in-game counterpart)? I'm at a loss here.. 7 pages since my last post and I can't even begin to figure out how such a heated debate has arisen..

@ Wikkedjoker - That was a good post but I think the hardcore feminists just think you're a chauvinist now. I don't, I thought it was fair and thought out. I can't believe in the year 2010 we're still arguing over this sort of stuff.

Modifié par leonia42, 19 juillet 2010 - 05:52 .


#315
Arttis

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People get sensitive by assuming a persons intent and speaking against it on a forum.

12 more posts till 2000 posts.

#316
wikkedjoker

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Feminism isn't bad. It only gets bad when you get the girls who want men's penises chopped off and that consensual sex is still somehow the censored "r-word" on this site.


True, I’ll admit I was being  absurd for the sake of being absurd, because the discussion has gone form asking Bioware for pictures of FemHawke so we can see what the base character looks like, to a serious discussion on female rights, and the appearance of women in media.  

Skimpy for the sake of skimpy is objectifying.



I could agree with that, but look at anything that is made for women, 90% of the time you will see this overly ripped guy, with pants so tight it outlines there package, and oddly enough, you know men don’t really care.
 
I do however find the concept hypocritical, I mean **** about objectification in one hand, and than use it to get what you want in the other, and lets be honest this happens ALL the time.

That is our issue with the skimpiness. We just want armor that makes practical sense.



Okay, that makes sense, however you can’t argue the effect fan service has on people.

And there’s no sense in ****ing about it, simply because like I’ve said before “Art Imitates Life.” You have a seemingly small group of women complaining about this issue, not that it’s a bogus issue. But than again you go to any public place and you see women dressed in practically nothing. Its sort of a mixed signal when you see this in real life every ware and than once it put into games, it become objectification. Its not practical or impartial is art mimicking life.

But I'm going to have to say that you're wrong in your scenario there. .


 
Okay it was another sarcastic extreme, again I don’t see this issue as an issue, so I’ll make fun of it.

Again its just my opinion, and my wife thought the scenario was funny as hell.

What is this, I don't even -.



LOL okay it was a jab at Twilight.

As for the gay jokes, I’ll admit, it was an extreme, but again, no straight man would go around direst like this:
   
Image IPB


Does that scream, manly bad ass?
Um I don’t think so.


THIS however does.

Image IPB

Harsh but true.

Its not homophobic if it’s the truth. . . And again how is pointing out an obvious stereotype homophobic? I mean that’s like saying the majority of African Americans like rap is a racist statement. . .

And again I think it would have been more homophobic for me NOT to have made the joke about it than to have, but believe what you want.

But it's silly to say that all women ever are light weights



Uhhh, I cant make any generalizations with out my balls being busted, can I?

I mean sometimes the moon is in the sky sometimes its not.

Like I said in the post: do the job that is best for you.

If you’re a light weight woman, or man be a scout, if you’re a large man or woman be a tank.

Hah. I sure would like it see that, though.



So would I.

I like your drawing, btw. Cute hair..



Thank you.

Modifié par wikkedjoker, 19 juillet 2010 - 05:57 .


#317
Riona45

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leonia42 wrote...

@ Wikkedjoker - That was a good post but I think the hardcore feminists just think you're a chauvinist now. I don't, I thought it was fair and thought out. I can't believe in the year 2010 we're still arguing over this sort of stuff.


Because of people like you who think "feminism" is somehow a bad word?

#318
Arttis

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So now all we need are super skinny guys and buff women to make everyhting equal.

10 posts till 2k.

#319
Riona45

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wikkedjoker wrote...

Does that scream, manly bad ass?
Um I don’t think so.


THIS however does.

Image IPB

Harsh but true.



He could be gay. Image IPB

#320
Riona45

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Arttis wrote...

So now all we need are super skinny guys and buff women to make everyhting equal.


Wow, that's a stupid argument, I can't believe you would say that!Image IPB

#321
Leonia

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Riona45 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

@ Wikkedjoker - That was a good post but I think the hardcore feminists just think you're a chauvinist now. I don't, I thought it was fair and thought out. I can't believe in the year 2010 we're still arguing over this sort of stuff.


Because of people like you who think "feminism" is somehow a bad word?


Because I totally said "feminism is a bad word" in my post. Yeah, stop trying to read what I didn't write.

#322
wikkedjoker

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Riona45 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

@ Wikkedjoker - That was a good post but I think the hardcore feminists just think you're a chauvinist now. I don't, I thought it was fair and thought out. I can't believe in the year 2010 we're still arguing over this sort of stuff.


Because of people like you who think "feminism" is somehow a bad word?

Nothing wrong with equal rights.

Everything wrong with hypocrisy.

#323
wikkedjoker

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Riona45 wrote...

wikkedjoker wrote...

Does that scream, manly bad ass?
Um I don’t think so.


THIS however does.

Image IPB

Harsh but true.



He could be gay. Image IPB


And you could be a 200 lb woman who wants to be a man, but hates men.

;)I guess ANYTHING is possible.

#324
Arttis

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Bring on the buff women!

I am personally not that into them but hey equal is equal.

#325
wikkedjoker

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Arttis wrote...

Bring on the buff women!
I am personally not that into them but hey equal is equal.


RIGHT?