71 réponses à ce sujet

[this isnt my name]

Yes lets make tali bi, because you know irl everyone is bi, nope no one is hetrosexual or homosexual everyone swings both ways. Seriously no, people are different if they dont meet your expectations/requirements they shouldnt have to change, lets say bioware make her bi, then everyone will want everyone bi, this is unrealistic, if you want a f/f relationship ask for a new character for that, dont try and change current characters.

[MajorStranger]

You must understand something, When Bioware (and their authors) create characters, they create real beings. Those beings have a mind of their own. The think their own way, they act their own way, and theirs sexuality is one of those things.



Tali's persona is about a young straight girl, still learning about facts of live. Making her a lesbian/bisexual only for your own fantasy would betray the character's personality. You want to see girl on girl action with whatever character you want? Go play the Sims!



This is as dumb as making Legion a love interest.



Bioware would lose my respect if they decide to make every character bisexual. Those character are not there so you can Frak them as much as you like. They are sentient being . Remember that.

[MajorStranger]

Screw the crew DLC -1200 MS Points/ 1200 Bioware Points



You can now screw everyone! Krogan!, Salarian! Geth! Even the ship itself !

Still not enough? Got to Omega and get some Hanar, Volus, Elcor and Vorcha prostitute!



Wake up everybody, this is just a game, You want to have homosexual intercourse? Do it in real life and stop annoying the developper.

[M1tt3ns]

I already made my counterpoint the the point you just tried to make earlier.

Also, pointedly; What is my save file but my 'own little fantasy?'. No one said you had to, nor even could you participate in my playthrough of the Mass Effect series.

I think it speaks droves for the validity of my request that the only people voicing opposition not based upon Bioware's resources have either been homophobic or trollish in their posts.

Modifié par M1tt3ns, 18 juillet 2010 - 06:13 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Wow. It is a like somebody wanted to create a topic that encompasses everything that annoys me. Thread necromancy, Tali obsession, romance DLC, and gaymances. All of these are bad ideas. Combined it is a horrible idea.



First a romance DLC would be a large waste of development time that could go into crafting new scenarios like Overlord. You mention the market out there for your DLC idea lurking in the dark alleyways of the internet, not the best market to aim for in my opinion. Second, why can't you accept Tali or whatever character of your choice isn't bisexual? Seems pretty simple to me. Yeah, the player and the players choices naturally vary, but the other characters should be consistent.

[MajorStranger]

M1tt3ns wrote...

I already made my counterpoint the the point you just tried to make earlier.

Also, pointedly; What is my save file but my 'own little fantasy?'. No one said you had to, nor even could you participate in my playthrough of the Mass Effect series.

You must understand something. This is not your Tali, this is Tali, a character with a background and history. In real life you can't come to anybody and tell them "Now you are bi, me want sex with you!" so why should it be in a video game? I agree some character can be made to be Bisexual (take Leliana in DAO, she is bisexual in a way she doesn't favour a gender. This goes with her character. Not everyone should be romanciable both by male and female. Tali is one of them. Doing so would make her merely a sextoy. Great way to teach people how to act between each others. Look at Zevran in DAO, he is disgusting and doesn't have as much fan as Alistair because he's a gigolo, a man prostitute.

70%-10%-20% (these are average)

70% of the human are heterosexual

10% are Bisexual

20% are Homosexual


So it doesn't make sense to have a whole crew of character that swing both ways while only 10% of the human population are indeed true Bisexual. Therefore the only logical reason to do this would be a illogical reason: To please dumb fangirl who love writing Slash fanfiction or for young teenage boy who will masturbate while playing the game.


Bioware goal in Mass Effect is to create NPC that feel like real human and real human are not all Bisexual.



No mather what you do, People are people, You're not god in that Game, you play a simple human. And simple humain are not able to control other people's sexuality.

Modifié par MajorStranger, 18 juillet 2010 - 06:29 .

[asaiasai]

I am going to answer multiple posts with one post and as I have not figured out how to do multiple quotes “one post to answer them all” will have to work. See what I did there .

First the MISCONCEPTION that to add gay romances to ME2 or ME3 for that matter is a waste of resources is completely and totally false. Here is why. Many Shepards have distinctly different faces and in some cases different attire but during the game when a cut scene is played, it manages to catch the limited individuality of that particular Shepard and render that individuality in the cut scene. What that means is as I have said before the game captures a snap shot of the particular Shepard then renders that Shepard in the cut scene. So as such there are NO extra resources required to render the same scene with a different Shepard. With this in mind rendering a romance scene with a male Shep and Miranda requires NO change in resources to render the same scene with a female Shep and Miranda. NONE ZERO ZIPITY. I will concede that to make the dialog flow better it might be required change the perspective of the speaking character from addressing one sex to the other. It will require the VAs to change perspective and repeat the same line so we are looking at the most 12 additional lines of dialog in total to make the same sex dialog compatible. I am supposed to buy this as the reason why same sex romances are too cost prohibitive to include them into the game? It does not wash I do not care how hard you scrub it.

Many folks rushed to Bioware's defense of my earlier suggestion that Bioware is hiding from any controversy by limiting the romances ME2 by throwing DAO into the mix as if DAO has any relevance in this discussion of the ME series. But as an avid DAO player I can tell you that again NO resources were required to make Allistair or Morrigan same sex romancable and none were required to render the scenes in the game, all that was changed is a line of script. This line was set by Bioware on release and less than a week later the mod community rendered that limitation irrelevant. Why do I need to go to the mod community to get a simple change that will add more immersive qualities to the game? I say allow the player to tailor the SINGLE PLAYER experience more to their liking right out of the box. If romances were an integral part of the plot where the PC has to romance a specific NPC to advance the story you "may" have a valid point but as this is not the case in either the ME series or DAO this can only be considered avoidance of controversy, as cost, as I have already pointed out, is irrelevant.

Many here have said that the idea of being able to have a gay romance creeps them out therefore the limits placed on romance options are a good thing. Extrapolating that argument I am sure there are plenty of folks who would consider the trash called the Turner Diaries a piece of classic American literature idiots and morons such as they are. Using this line of thought as a justification as to why same sex romances are not available, primarily to avoid offending the sensibilities of these individuals, Jacob the character of African descent would need a make over from brown to white skin. I submit when is it ever a good idea to tailor any experience with the intolerant individual in mind?

It could be argued that in doing this Bioware is joining the political fray if you are a glass is half empty kind of person this maybe true for you. I think that by opening up some more options in the games for the players to customize their experiences you are creating the opportunity for wider appeal if nothing else replay-ability. Does this mean that people will buy any game because of the inclusion of same sex romances, probably not or at least not with out some sort of recommendation from an individual who has enjoyed the experience immensely? I am personally responsible for the sale of at least 5 copies of DAO because of my recommendation to people who have asked. I can also claim that those 5 people asked about ME2 to which I gave a fair and honest appraisal of the merits of the game resulting in at least 2 copies that I know of being sold. Seven copies of Bioware software being sold on my recommendation may not sound like a lot but how many of the original 5 I talked to, talked to 5 people of their own.

Bioware representatives have said many times on these forums that they are sorry if their games do not appeal to you and feel free to do something else. First off they are completely with in their rights to say this, but I ask how many times do they think they can say this before people do just exactly that? I do not think that the folks of my mindset are demanding that Bioware fundamentally change their artistic vision. I am saying is that since same sex romances require minimal if any additional resources, have NO effect on plot advancement, would be completely optional, and require no fundamental changes in game design or artistic vision what other argument is there? The only argument that seems to make any sense is that Bioware is catering to or in fear of, the intolerant amongst us, and that is wrong.

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 18 juillet 2010 - 06:34 .

[ZephSunstrider]

MajorStranger wrote...

Bioware goal in Mass Effect is to create NPC that feel like real human and real human are not all Bisexual.

Simple counterpoint, even if it's hypothetic: Tali is NOT human. Different culture, different opinions. We don't know anything about quarian/turian/generally alien opinion about sexuality. It's a feature not too thoroughly explored in the ME series. Or does anyone know about hanar mating rituals? There's alot of space to fill and interpret into.
Right now, most of it is people fantasizing about possibilities. Isn't that the point of immersive video games like ME? To temporarily escape into a fantasy world where things are far more influencable than in real life?
Then again... there's design limits. It's BWs universe after all, and if they don't want to make Tali bi, they won't.
... unless some mad fanboy gets the idea of threatening BW employees with a revolver, demanding them to make her bi.
I say, work with what's there. Ask for more, but don't get pissy if you don't get it. Basically... hope for the best, but expect the worst.

...

There could still be the option for BioWare to release a ME2 Unreal Editor. But I guess that's even more wishful thinking

Edit:

asaiasai wrote...
The only argument that seems to make any
sense is that Bioware is catering to or in fear of, the intolerant
amongst us, and that is wrong.

It can be a rather powerful argument though. They do have to think economically, too. Anyone remember the small debacle about Mass Effect being banned in Singapore for some time? (It was Singapore, right?)
More... well, controversial material provokes more drastic measures from less tolerant people. Some of these less tolerant people are in offices with power. Enough power to stop the distribution of such a game country-wide.
That IS a strong economic blow for BW.

Modifié par ZephSunstrider, 18 juillet 2010 - 06:49 .

[M1tt3ns]

I certainly wouldn't call her 'my tali'. That would be disrespectful the the developers at Bioware and to the character they created. That certainly isn't the way it works in real life, but this isn't real life.

I'm rather insulted to be lumped into the category of  "dumb fangirl who love writing Slash fanfiction." and it's a rude assumption to make that everyone who would like to see a relationship like that is a sexually repressed deviant.

Simply put, I don't see how such an option would tarnish or diminish Tali's character to a 'sex toy.' Certainly not a Zevran. A character made bisexual isn't actually shown to be so. They're either gay or they're straight, depending on your character. Canonically they might be straight for one person and in another person's game homosexual.  Shepard isn't the same person every playthrough, why should they be? Is it really at the character's expense if there are multiple versions of the same character? Look at comic books where heroes are constantly given rewrites and reboots, ending up doing things the original version of the character would never do. Do the actions of the new version of that character diminish the actions of the original version? 

I say no.

Self-indulgent as it may seem, a lot of the appeal of Bioware's games is to enjoy a story that you are at the center of. It becomes less and less fun the more divergent the story you're playing becomes from the story you want to see.

Modifié par M1tt3ns, 18 juillet 2010 - 07:23 .

[Bigdoser]

You can't change a characters sexuality just for the sake of the player.

[asaiasai]

For everyone who wants to claim that i am incorrect because they chose to allow some same sex romances in DAO i have only this to say, ME and DAO are targeted to different audiences. IF you do not believe me just check the registration badges for many of the posters in either forum. Some folks play DAO while ignoring ME and vice versa. I am not even going to claim that players of either game are superior to each other, because i am a "to each his own" type of person. I will say that owning both games there are aspects of DAO that are superior to ME but that is just opinion, regardless of how many people agree, it does not make it fact. Just because the developers decided to add some things to one game targeted to one audience does not make my theory incorrect because they chose not to in another game targeted to a different audience. The flak they took from the foamers at FOX was probably enough of a reason that Bioware chose to A) tone down the romance scenes for ME2, decide that no controversial content be added to ME2 such as same sex romances regardless of fan desire.You can not be that naive to think that the foamers at FOX were not on the look out for something to rage about with the release of ME2. I submit that regardless of what was said then or now by the developers this was an integral part of the decision making process concerning the content of ME2. As all companies want to make money, it is the only reason they exist, i believe they counted on fan loyalty to move that product because very little inovative material was offered with ME2. If anything they toned the innovation down to slip under the radar of the foamers.



You can agree or disagree it really matters not because even if the developers were to say again that this had no bearing on thier decision making process for ME2 i am way too old to be that naive. I will not presume to call anyone a liar but i will say that to some degree obsfucation of the truth, ie spin, called artistic license was trotted out. It is probably the quickest and easiest way to shut the critics up with out actually having to say STFU. This conversation was had before, i am sure it will be had again in the future, but as we will never really know any more than we are offered, the only option is to continue to call Bioware on it until they either relent, or alienate thier fans to the point they go elsewhere for the content they desire.



In either case this is probably my last post in this thread as i have said what i think needed to be said. No one here has offered any plausable reason for this decision other than a completely different game, with a completely different play style, which is targeted to a completely different audience as thier only basis of fact. The discussion has become circular.



Asai

[angj57]

Bigdoser wrote...

You can't change a characters sexuality just for the sake of the player.

This would be a lot more convincing of an argument if they didn't already do that. Those who say that the devs shouldn't change Tali's character just because some fans want that should remember that the whole reason she shows any interest in a male Shepard in ME2 is because fans lobbied for it on the forums. Clearly, in some circumstances the devs are willing to change a character's sexuality just to please fans.

[Inquisitor Recon]

angj57 wrote...
This would be a lot more convincing of an argument if they didn't already do that. Those who say that the devs shouldn't change Tali's character just because some fans want that should remember that the whole reason she shows any interest in a male Shepard in ME2 is because fans lobbied for it on the forums. Clearly, in some circumstances the devs are willing to change a character's sexuality just to please fans.

I hope Bioware didn't do it just because of the Cult-of-Tali, but regardless here is where the line should be drawn.

[M1tt3ns]

Well thanks to the ONE person who decided to read my argument regarding character integrity all three times I restated it and tried to turn this into a discussion instead of people taking turns ranting.

[Inquisitor Recon]

*Duke Nukem voice*

Ranting is what I do baby. Hail to the king.

[M1tt3ns]

Pretty sure that was Ash, not Duke Nukem.

Either way, to pin you down on a response, do you feel that in comic books having characters act differently in alternate universes diminishes the integrity of the character in the initial comic's canon? It's not as though the two characters are even the same... Which is my point. How does it damage the vision of a character to have different versions of them, just as there are different versions of the rest of the world depending upon the player's choices?

[M1tt3ns]

By that same token, though your own argument lacks validity. None of us can guess as to Bioware's motivations for not including that content, so it's all just speculation. If your arguement is that the other poster's argument must be false for lack of evidence so must your's that same-sex romances were excluded as per Bioware's personal choice rather than due to external influence.

If you don't have factual evidence to stand on yourself,  you can't dismiss anyone else's claims for lack of evidence.

Modifié par M1tt3ns, 19 juillet 2010 - 12:58 .

[ZephSunstrider]

This whole debate sparked a curious thought: How would Legion react if approached romantically?!

[Mecha Tengu]

stupid idea



yet another reason for the nerds to ****** over the already popular quarian, among the sex doll and the pathetic fanfics

[Crazed-ex-jedi]

smells awfully ghey in here

[Inquisitor Recon]

Crazed-ex-jedi wrote...
smells awfully ghey in here

A Cult-of-Tali member I can agree with, what is the world coming to?