17 réponses à ce sujet

[jackkel dragon]

So, I may have mentioned on this board before that I'm designing a new setting. Thing is, I can't think of many good monsters that aren't devils and demons and gods. So, I'm wondering what other NWN players think are good monsters, what kind of monster variety there should be in a module, and what kind of monsters make sense in a more "realistic" setting.

Clarification: For the first question, the monster/enemy does not have to fall under my loose definition of realistic.

[pkpeachykeen]

Animals, especially big ones. Cultists aren't monsters, but always fun baddies, especially if they believe they have some evil god backing them. The old extra-big-guy, thought-extinct-critter and mutant-from-under-the-rock always work, and are plausible. It is hard to come up with realistic monsters, though.

[SHOVA]

Giant. One really big powerfull people eating giant.

[qaerinju]

The most vile, evil and believable monsters? Humans.

[jackkel dragon]

qaerinju wrote...

The most vile, evil and believable monsters? Humans.

I don't want to cut off discussion as I need the opnions to help me out... but...

DINGDINGDING!! We have a winner!

[B_Harrison]

qaerinju wrote...

The most vile, evil and believable monsters? Humans.

I can't do better than that.

But if you also want suggestions for general RPG fantasy battling, I'd look to some of the more classic monster types - which if realism is a factor, can also serve as natural creatures that fit into your setting's ecosystem. Wyverns, griffons, unintelligent/flightless dragons (mist dragons without the mist emitters are good for this), and of course giant versions of familiar creatures. You can't go wrong with giant spiders and giant scorpions.

I find small or unimposing monsters (whether actually dangerous or not, and regardless of their numbers) a bit uninteresting to fight; I want my characters to have to block fire breath with their shields, dodge huge stinging tails, barely evade gigantic snapping jaws, and all of that stuff. Single monsters vs. parties are fun too, if the monster has sufficient HP and isn't obviously vulnerable to any specific kind of attack.

[olivier leroux]

qaerinju wrote...

The most vile, evil and believable monsters? Humans.

True, but they're also the most boring kind of monsters, at least if they come in large groups and don't have much personality to speak of.

 

How about human creations: Golems, robots, killer machines, weapons of mass distruction, mutants, clones, horrific abominations, experiments gone wrong etc.

Personally I also like witches, hags, werewolves, trolls, ghosts (if done right) and outsiders (other than angels and fiends, e.g. slaads, githyanki, modrons etc.). The latter are probably all too D&D specific for your setting though.

Hm... mysterious cave and underground dwellers? Eerie spirits or feyfolk (with "fey" according to wikipedia originally meaning "fated to die" or "having forebodings of death")?

...  aliens?

Modifié par olivier leroux, 17 juillet 2010 - 10:35 .

[Selene Moonsong]

Agree with the idea of humans (humans, elves, dwarves, etc), monsters aren't the only monsters



I find to humans the most challenging and frightening, because they will have motives and incentives beyond merely trying to survive. With a good AI system in place, even a few minor town thugs can be a formidable challenge.

[Tarot Redhand]

Depends what you want your monsters to actually do. If you want scary I would say an invisible one that sneaks in and makes a single successful attack that somehow corrupts the PC is hard to beat. Couple that with random eerie sounds and well you get the picture.

TR

Modifié par Tarot Redhand, 17 juillet 2010 - 01:31 .

[olivier leroux]

Oh, and with regards to variety, that's what I meant with my comment about large groups of humans. Humans can be great villains and opponents, especially if they've *got* personality and are not just your average bad guy cliché. One on one fights are great. And I also like rivaling adventuring groups (the bad barbarian, the mean mage, the cruel cleric). I just get bored if humans are the only opponents and to get through to the castle of an evil tyrant or whatever you have to fight your way through whole armies of guards or thugs without much variety. So if you want a lot of encounters with large groups, humans as the main monsters could get a bit tedious, IMO.

BTW, good suggestion, TR, that would frighten the hell out of me.

Modifié par olivier leroux, 17 juillet 2010 - 01:55 .

[TSMDude]

Things that are underused as the ones you mentioned in Demons/Devils and of course Undead are overused imho. Some that I have liked are the Displacer Beast and Lycans when they actually cause Lycanthropy with thier bites. Love that.

Another big thing I dig is good use of the kobolds. I remember when a group of adventurers of mid levels went into a kobold cave and figured oh...kobolds...how easy is this going to be...

They were slaughtered. If Kobolds were not the crafty trap making little devils they are then they would not survive as would not goblions or orcs. Use some Orogs. Grey Renders...treants...there is tons of underused monsters in the STandrad Pallette alone. Another thing to consider is Elminster's Rules of the Rabbit. I went ahead and reprinted them below this as they do bear a little on the discussion.

[TSMDude]

Rules of the Rabbit
Years ago, I undertook an expedition into the
forests near Myth Drannor. I had not seen a
human face, or a face remotely human in several
weeks and longed for company. As a youth, I had
raised rabbits as pets and knew them to be amiable,
if somewhat dispassionate, companions. Throughout
the day, I had noticed dozens of red-furred rabbits
frolicking in the underbrush. I decided to
befriend one.
I spotted a suitable specimen, a handsome buck
with a powder puff tail and bright green eyes. I
extended my hand, palm open, so as not to frighten
him. To my surprise, he cawed like a crow, stood
erect, then bounded away on his hind legs.
That night, I pondered my experience with this
unusual hare. I concluded that my failure to make
contact was entirely my own fault, the result of
false assumptions. There and then, I began to formulate
what I call the Rules of the Rabbit, general
principles applicable to all creatures of the wild,
animals and monsters alike. A traveler would do
well to remember these principles when encountering
creatures outside his homeland.

Rule One
A rabbit isn't always a rabbit.
That is, a rabbit from one region doesn't necessarily behave like a rabbit
from another, even though they may look alike. I
discovered a rabbit in the Hullack Forest that
sleeps on its back, its feet straight in the air. A
species from Harrowdale can rotate its eyes in
opposite directions. I have heard of a rabbit from
Brynwood that not only whistles like a canary, but
can be taught an impressive repertoire of tunes. A
hippogriff from the Dragonspine Mountains may
be docile, even passive, while his cousin from
Ring's Reach may be quick to take offense. It is
often impossible to make these distinctions from
casual observations. As in the case of the
excitable hippogriff, experience can be a cruel
teacher.
The physical form of an animal can also vary
dramatically from region to region. The pseudodragon
presents a striking example as there is literally hundreds of variants but all variants
exhibit virtually identical mannerisms and attitudes.
They differ only in appearance.

Rule Two
A rabbit doesn't want to be rich.
Foolish is the traveler
who assumes that all creatures share his
motives and emotions. A squirrel may covet a silver
bracelet, but only because it admires the sparkling
metal, not because it desires wealth or wants to
impress its companions. Who would doubt that a
crocodile basking in the sun feels pleasure? But it
seems unlikely that a crocodile experiences passion
or pity. Ah ankheg cannot be stirred to sentiment.
A gelatinous cube will not respond to flattery.
Observing, experimenting, and perusing scholarly
texts are valid ways to learn the nuances of animal
behavior. But wondering how a man would act
in a similar situation is rarely the best approach.

Rule Three
A rabbit doesn't always stay put.
Though I've never
actually seen a rabbit at the beach, it wouldn't surprise
me if I did. Though most animals are associated
with specific habitats, they can turn up
virtually anywhere. Colleagues have told me of gibberlings
that live in crude houseboats on the Lake
of Dragons, and I have it on good authority that a
rare species of couatl nests in the mountains of
Anauroch.
Some use the phrase wandering monsters to
describe creatures encountered in unusual locales or
those who have strayed from their lairs for no
apparent purpose. The reasons for this wanderlust,
however, are many and diverse. A roving gorgon
may be attempting to expand its territory. An urge
to explore may motivate a curious bullywug. Male
leucrotta have been known to journey hundreds of
miles to locate a suitable mate. In any case, travelers
are advised to approach all such wandering
monsters with caution; whatever their purpose,
these creatures may not take kindly to human
interference.

So you would-be travellers are advised to read well the information presented here by meself, the Sage of Shadowdale and to memorize the Rules of the Rabbit.
There are only three:
A rabbit isn't always a rabbit.
A rabbit doesn't want to be rich.
A rabbit doesn't always stay put.

Modifié par TSMDude, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:13 .

[SHOVA]

Kill the wabbit, kill the Wabbit!

[Daewan]

"Ultimately a good hare was found which took the field at . . .

There the hounds pressed her, and on the hunt arriving at the edge

of the cliff the hare could be seen crossing the beach and going

right out to sea. A boat was procured, and the master and some

others rowed out to her just as she drowned, and, bringing the

body in, gave it to the hounds. A hare swimming out to sea is a

sight not often witnessed."—Local paper, January 1911.

- http://www.gutenberg...64-h/2764-h.htm

[HipMaestro]

Any critter that can burrow underground and pop up without warning.  Those formians can burrow... though I've never been attacked by one that way, but the animation has been designed already.  Add some ability to heal while underground and it could be a nasty foe even with low-end defenses and attack capabilities.  The PC would be forced to stun it somehow (via KD, Stunning Fists, Paralyze, Sleep, etc.) to control it.  Of course, the AI would be the key to making it work.  Also, I've never encountered a snake-strike from under a rock or around a blind corner (I guess NWN may have difficulty animating snakes???).  Or maybe a trapdoor spider... same deal. This type wouldn't need any magic capabilities, would be interesting to strategize and would be a naturally-occuring lifeform for any environment.  The actual shape of the subterranean is up to the designer but mthere are many possibilities. 

[Karvon]

When I create an area, be it dungeon, wilderness or city, I think of inhabitants in terms of a ecosystem or food chain. Thus, some will view adventurers as prey, and stalk or attack them, others will view them as predators, and flee or take defensive measures, while some may simple pay them no heed, like the attention a human might normally pay to a single normal ant - though these might be very dangerous should their attention be drawn by the adventurers undue activities. In short, some encounters would be initially hostile, some neutral and a few even friendly. Some encounters should be very easy, a few impossible, for the party to overcome thru force of arms.



Let's consider a couple of examples.



A crypt might have a variety of undead, some sealed away, some wandering the halls and chambers. A variety of oozes, slimes or molds might find nourishment from the remains and tomb furnishings. Rats and beetles of various sizes might be found living off remains, and possibly the slimes and molds. A few spiders, stirges and/or snakes might live off those - and the occasional tomb robber. A necromancer or an evil priest, may have set up a temporary or permanent base of operation in the crypt - possibly with a few guards, minions and wards. One, or more, of the tombs might have constructs serving as guardians. A few tombs might have some sort of magical creature bound as a guardian. Wandering encounters might include the odd tomb robber(s), adventurer(s), pilgrim(s), or plundering humanoids.



A slum section of a larger town might have some locals who fear and avoid strangers, some who ignore them, some who interact with them for info or reward, beggers, peddlers, prostitutes and the like. There might be several gangs operating in the area, in addition to independent criminals, who might interact with strangers in any number of ways. The local watch might have some level of presence and attention to strangers. At night, rats, wild dogs, a few undead, the odd werecreature, a lone snake or hunting spider might be found looking for food, once most of the human elements are behind locked doors.



Setting up such sorts of ecosystems, takes a bit of thought and planning, initially, but it creates a more believable and interesting experience, and force players to make more intelligent choices on how to interact with the world as they simply can't always rely on brute force.



Karvon

[TSMDude]

HipMaestro wrote...

Any critter that can burrow underground and pop up without warning.  Those formians can burrow... though I've never been attacked by one that way, but the animation has been designed already.  Add some ability to heal while underground and it could be a nasty foe even with low-end defenses and attack capabilities.  The PC would be forced to stun it somehow (via KD, Stunning Fists, Paralyze, Sleep, etc.) to control it.  Of course, the AI would be the key to making it work.  Also, I've never encountered a snake-strike from under a rock or around a blind corner (I guess NWN may have difficulty animating snakes???).  Or maybe a trapdoor spider... same deal. This type wouldn't need any magic capabilities, would be interesting to strategize and would be a naturally-occuring lifeform for any environment.  The actual shape of the subterranean is up to the designer but mthere are many possibilities. 

Actually we have a large system thatw e use for soem unique monster builds like burrowing complete with dust plumes and such as well as some that jump out of trees or fall out of the cieling then jump back in. We also applied some other effects to dragons and flying creatures using the same methodology that seems to work. It is in our Varibale Language System if anyone is intrested and wants it. I can erf it out and you can load it into something and give it a whirl. Just email me at tsm.builder@gmail.com and over the weekend I will send it to you.

[Genisys]

Variety is the spice of life... Of course your question is which monsters besides the drone of usual uglies..

Naturally, creating a good variety in an encounter will ensure that:

A) The same thing doesn't always spawn..
The Lands change (Maybe the goblins were bullied away by the ocrs)
C) The PC continues to be challenge when they come back later..

As long as you don't SET an area to have only one encounter type (and the next encounter monster should be 4 levels higher than the last, this way they are more challenged) and you have a lot of areas, I'm sure your module will be far from boring..

Of course, the magic of a DM really makes a module better to me, for when DM's spawn & RP monsters, NO MONSTER IN THE GAME COMPARES (If it's RPed correctly and not Over Challenging)

That is my sage advice, often people focus too much on the module & not the player, the player is your main focus, the module is not so important, but the DM's Interraction with the players is...

Without reading and learning more about your setting, I'd have to say, it's hard to make a suggestion, common monsters are sometimes realistic / believable... then as some suggested Animals / Humans are always realistic / beliebable to a setting

Then of course there are Animal Mutated Hybrids, like the Hypogriff, (horse / eagle?) the nefarious Owl Bear...
(I like these mutated hybrids, they are the after math of magic or cross mating, nonetheless, they are cool!)

If your not playing in a magical world then you definitely should use the above suggested, if it's a magical world, then you can use whatever you want, in fact, it's a nice thing to encounter monsters who do not conform to the D&D rules per say, therefore, if you feel like the cursed monk should do a special power on hit, that's cool, it makes the PCs step back and go woe...  (Always impressive and you gain repsect for being different & original)

Modifié par Genisys, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:05 .