45 réponses à ce sujet

[EmStar202]

The first rpg I played by Bioware was Dragon Age, and I absolutely loved it. I tried Mass Effect, but I just couldn't get into the story or gameplay. I guess shooters and space aren't for me. So what I'm wondering is: Is Baldur's Gate still worth playing? Even though it's so old?

I looked up some videos of it, and while the graphics are pretty bed, I'll be able to overlook it if the story and gameplay are really good. One thing I really liked about Dragon Age was all the decisions you had to make. Are there decisions like that in Baldur's Gate? And is it wicked hard? Because when I looked it up it looked wicked confusing. I'm all for a good challenge, but I want to make sure I'll actually be able to win it eventually.

Plus, I don't even know if it will work on my computer. I have Windows 7. Can I download a mod or something to make it play on my computer? I'm a total noob when it comes to technology stuff. I played Dragon Age on the ps3, so it was just the simple matter of inserting the disc in the machine.

[TheMufflon]

EmStar202 wrote...

The first rpg I played by Bioware was Dragon Age, and I absolutely loved it. I tried Mass Effect, but I just couldn't get into the story or gameplay. I guess shooters and space aren't for me. So what I'm wondering is: Is Baldur's Gate still worth playing? Even though it's so old?

This is the Baldur's Gate forum, did you really think anyone who posts here would answer anything other than "Yes!"? It is an awsome game, though, and it's dirt cheap, so you should check it out.

Plus, I don't even know if it will work on my computer. I have Windows 7. Can I download a mod or something to make it play on my computer? I'm a total noob when it comes to technology stuff. I played Dragon Age on the ps3, so it was just the simple matter of inserting the disc in the machine.

I'm running it on Windows 7, and it works just fine. Don't install it in the default directory and run it in compatibility mode (just right click and select Troubleshoot Compatility).

[Cypher0020]

I just got the 4 in 1 boxset today for only 16 bucks from amazon... played a little bit of BG1, and it looks pretty good



Imoen reminds me of Mission.....for some odd reason o.o

[Guilebrush]

To many the Baldur's Gate saga has a story far superior to Dragon Age's. The non-player character development isn't quite as robust as DA's but the main character is far more customizable since you aren't restricted to just 3 base classes and the spell system is far more complex.



There are decision points in BG just like you find in DA, and they tend to occur more often since BG is the longer story if you include the myriad of sidequests.



As for gameplay it's excellent although it has a very steep learning curve. Once you get a handle of the system though you'll be fine the game rarely gets unfair, though admittedly there are a few instances of combat that can get very binary in nature.Overall one could say that it's challenging but never overwhelming, and like any well designed game out there, there's a solution for every problem you'll encounter. I'm pretty sure that many on the board would agree that it certainly is worth playing as it has aged pretty well. In the end, the Infinity Engine games aren't for everyone, but they are done very very well and you're likely to enjoy it if this kind of CRPG is your thing.

[cipher86]

EmStar202 wrote...
So what I'm wondering is: Is Baldur's Gate still worth playing? Even
though it's so old?

Yes, but with DA:O being your first Bioware RPG, BG is going to feel dated in several ways.  It can be overcome, but you will have some adjusting to do.  (by overcome I don't mean with mods, but rather your mindset)

EmStar202 wrote...
I looked up some videos of it, and while the graphics are pretty bed,
I'll be able to overlook it if the story and gameplay are really good.
One thing I really liked about Dragon Age was all the decisions you had
to make. Are there decisions like that in Baldur's Gate?

The story in BG1 is not too great, as there isn't much interaction with the plot or the characters.  Overall I just didn't think it was very well told.  From BG2 through to finish, the story is much better.  As far as storytelling goes, BG2 is leaps and bounds ahead of BG1.

The graphics are pretty bad by today's standards, but the revulsion will go away after you play it for a little while.  As for your question about decisions like DA:O, yes and no.  It lets you make conversation choices and romantic ones (BG2/ToB), but I don't feel that most of them had the same impact on the game as the ones in DA:O did.  Keep in mind this is purely opinion - there are definitely some decisions that undoubtedly have an impact on the game (one character in BG2, for example, has a dramatic alignment shift based on how you handle a situation of his, and it shows throughout the rest of the game), but I find most of them are face-value.

EmStar202 wrote...
And is it wicked hard? Because when I looked it up it looked wicked
confusing. I'm all for a good challenge, but I want to make sure I'll
actually be able to win it eventually.

Yes, it is wicked hard.  To give you an idea, google search "Baldur's Gate Manual".  Download the pdf and start looking through it.  Everything in that manual is in the game (oh wait, this is a lie, a few things are explained and then not implemented, like Willpower giving a bonus to Mind saves - ALMOST everything ), and eventually you will need to know all of it if you want to do well.  Compared to DA:O (and modern gaming in general), the combat is deep and complex.  You will not know it in and out within 15 minutes, 1 hour, or even several hours.  If you have never played a D&D oriented game before, you will likely be learning (and possibly feel a bit behind and overwhelmed) as you go.  The first time I beat BG1, I shouted at the monitor, called it a ***** and gave it the finger, because by God I finally did it, but I still didn't have a complete grasp on the game and its mechanics.  It takes a long time to understand and even longer to master.  This is to the series' benefit and detriment - it's what has given the game it's longevity with the fans, but it's also what makes it hard for newcomers to stick with it.

EmStar202 wrote...
Plus, I don't even know if it will work on my computer. I have Windows
7. Can I download a mod or something to make it play on my computer?

I own the Baldur's Gate 4-in-1 boxset and it runs flawlessly on my Windows 7 64-bit OS.  As for mods if you do encounter compatibility issues... there are none that I know of, but the tech support forum can certainly help.

As for mods in general (the question always eventually comes), I would stay away from them until you've beaten the entire series your first time.  Install one of the unofficial fixpacks to keep things smooth, but that's it.  At least one of the mods that gives BG1 the engine of BG2 also makes unnoted changes to other aspects (possibly unintentionally).  Both mods change the overall experience entirely.  Sure, it will make your Baldur's Gate game look a bit prettier, but at the cost of several other adjustments.  Play it the way it was meant to be played first, and then if you really like it, take the other mods as a treat.  Just because someone else likes a mod, doesn't mean you will, and you won't know what you like/dislike adding/taking away from the game until you've seen it in all its dated glory.

Ultimately, be prepared.  This game gives you nothing.  It will not hold your hand, it will not even act as a parent monitoring their child to make sure they don't wander into traffic.  In fact, as soon as you get out of the tutorial area (which really just tells you what to click, it teaches you next to nothing about the rules), this game will throw you out into the traffic and wish you luck, and wait to meet you on the other side.  You're going to get struck by traffic a thousand times over before you reach the other side, if you do at all.

Just a warning.

Modifié par cipher86, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:28 .

[Valente11]

If you can look past the graphics, the (initially) intimidating ruleset, and the unforgiving difficulty, you will find a seriously fantastic rpg. You will, however, have to be prepared for something different than what most modern day rpg's are like, Dragon Aage comes the closest to similarity but even then, it's still pretty different. You'll see when you play.



My advice is to: 1) give it time, the story takes time to develop; and 2.) don't get discouraged if you find it difficult, there's a pretty big hump you have to get over at the beginning but that's the worst of it.

[Son of Imoen]

And if you run into difficulty, you can always ask for advice on this forum, do a search in the old Bioware forums, forums.bioware.com/ or google for walkthroughs. Sorcerer's Place for instance: www.sorcerers.net/Games/index.php

Once you get to know the game and it's mechanics, you'll want mods to make it MORE difficult. It happened to me in my first runthrough, before I even finished the game. I already knew the AD&D 2nd Edition rules though, the pencil and paper RPG on which BG is based. If you don't know this game, this is a good FAQ which could help you: www.gamefaqs.com/pc/919881-baldurs-gate-ii-the-collection/faqs/8566 Good luck and have fun!

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 17 juillet 2010 - 09:02 .

[aries1001]

I've found the Baldur's Gate games to be some of my favorite games of all time. They do have a somewhat steep learning curve, though. I remember I had to have a old co-worker of mine showing me to position my little characters on the map, and to tell me that the area that was darkened was the play-area that I hadn't yet visited...



And yes, the graphics look bad by today's standards. However, you'll soon learn to overcome this, since your thrust into a story of betrayal, lust, murder and quest for power. When you install the game, and play the game, wander around a little, and save the game a lot. The game is open from the start; level 1 characters can wander into situations that's way over their head. Then do like 'brave sir robin' - run away. Remember to come back later, though....



As for combat, remember that the lower is better for armour. And try to position your fighters up front, you mage far away and your thief/rogue somewhere in the middle...

[EmStar202]

Thank you guys for all your responces! You've convinced me to get it now, even though you've all mentioned it will be a challenge. I'm up for it. I'm going to buy the 4 in 1 boxset from Amazon. I downloaded a free trial of Baldur's Gate 2 and it was really fun! Even though I didn't know what I was doing at first. lol



Expect to hear from me again. I'm sure I'll need your help!

[cipher86]

While you're waiting for your game to arrive, you should brush up on the game rules.  Google "Baldur's Gate Manual" and read. If you plan on playing through with a mod that brings the BGII engine to BGI (which I am against, at least for your first playthrough), then just read through the BGII manual.

For a rundown of the absolute basics, be sure to visit Dan Simpson's AD& FAQ:

http://www.gamefaqs....f-amn/faqs/8566

Modifié par cipher86, 18 juillet 2010 - 01:29 .

[EmStar202]

Thanks for the link! I downloaded the manual online and skimmed it. I really should read it though, but there's just SO MUCH INFORMATION! It's almost overwhelming. lol



I honestly have no clue when it comes to mods. What changes about the game when you bring the BGII engine to BGI? Not the content I hope? But just the combat or something? Sorry I'm so clueless.

[cipher86]

EmStar202 wrote...
I honestly have no clue when it comes to mods. What changes about the game when you bring the BGII engine to BGI? Not the content I hope? But just the combat or something? Sorry I'm so clueless.

The biggest thing is that it makes Kits available in BGI.  These weren't available until BGII, and as such can make your PC overpowered OR underpowered for BGI, depending on which one you choose.

Tutu (one of two major BGI mods) does something with spawn rates I don't like, whereas BGT (the other major BGI mod) does something with the transition into BGII I don't like.  It's all preference though, which is why I recommend you play through the entire series unmodded first, and then mod for playthroughs after.

Modifié par cipher86, 18 juillet 2010 - 02:24 .

[EmStar202]

I think I'll take your advice and play without mods the first time. I probably wouldn't know how to install them properly anyway.

For when I get the game, I'm just curious, what class would you guys suggest starting out as? Are any of them more complicated than other ones? Mage sounds cool, but when I tried the free trial of BGII you started out with a ton of spells, and I didn't even know what some of them did. Do you start out with that many spells in BGI?

Thanks for answering my questions! 

Modifié par EmStar202, 18 juillet 2010 - 03:19 .

[cipher86]

EmStar202 wrote...
For when I get the game, I'm just curious, what class would you guys suggest starting out as? Are any of them more complicated than other ones? Mage sounds cool, but when I tried the free trial of BGII you started out with a ton of spells, and I didn't even know what some of them did. Do you start out with that many spells in BGI?

Thanks for answering my questions! 

My first time through I was a Fighter.  It's the easiest to pick up and learn, since once you hit Level 3 you're able to take a few hits before dying, can dish out a good amount of damage because your THAC0 has gotten high and you're landing more of your attacks, and since you can wear Full Plate you aren't in much danger from physical damage.  The downside to being a fighter is that you don't have any skills at your disposal, so aside from changing weapon types and positioning yourself to prevent enemies from getting to your weaker party members, there isn't much to do.  No shield bashing, power attacks, or anything of the sort.

BGII and ToB rely almost exclusively on mages for tactical combat.  It's all about mages flinging spells at each other and controlling the battlefield - all non-mages are essentially pawns to the mage.  Because of this, rolling a Mage as your first character is a good idea, because rolling a mage means you will be learning the magic system out of the gate, whereas if you're a Fighter you might put off learning how to fully utilize your NPC spellcasters until it's obvious that you need to start using them.  The downside to being a mage is that you are pathetically weak and fragile to start off, near useless actually.  Also, the magic system in this game is very complex - it isn't your Final Fantasy affair of Fire1, Fire2, Cure1, Cure2, etc. - so while rolling a mage knowing you will eventually be a one man wrecking crew is pretty sweet, rolling it as your first character means the steep learning curve is going to get a lot steeper, and the game will feel more punishing than if you rolled a less intricate class.  But, you do need to learn eventually - the mage-oriented battles of BGII won't simplify themselves just because you're new to the game.

There's also multi-classing, but that may be a bit more deep than a first-timer would be wanting to go... though if you've got the time to study now, you may be prepped for it by the time your game arrives.

Regardless of your starting class, any holes you need to fill in your party can always be filled with a joinable NPC.  There are characters of all classes all over the world of BGI and BGII - it's just a matter of finding them.  So should you roll a Mage and want another Fighter, roll a Fighter and want a Mage, roll whatever and need to fill a slot with SOMETHING, there's a character out there for that.  It's just a matter of finding him/her.

EDIT: Oh, completely unmodded, BGI mages start off with two spells.  BGII is seven, iirc.

Also, I am no AD&D master.  Though I love the game, I do not know as much about it as any longtime D&D player would.  I'm 100% certain there are more good "first character" options to a complete newcomer, but since Fighter and Mage are two playstyles that are on opposite sides of the spectrum, and since it's what you suggested, it's what I decided to stick with and compare.  It would be awesome if someone with more experience and knowledge could give you more advice 

Modifié par cipher86, 18 juillet 2010 - 03:51 .

[Dante2377]

As someone who's played BG2+TOB since it came out so many years ago, I'd recommend that as a new player you do this:



- play the game vanilla (no significant mods) until you get tired of it and start thinking "oh the game is easy to play through and I've used most of the NPCs and done most of the quests". By vanilla I mean SOA + TOB + official patch + one of the fixpacks (either Balderdash or G3).



- almost any class will work your first time through as there a ton of NPCs to add later. I would recommend NOT using a Sorcerer, Thief, or Wizardslayer your first time through. Not a sorcerer since once you pick your spells you'll be stuck with them the whole game and you probably won't know the spell system well enough. If you want to be a wizard, chose Mage or a specialist Wizard. I'd recommend not a wizard slayer because playing with all the magic items on your main character is more fun the first time through. I'd recommend not a thief because there is a major plot point where you need to align with one of 2 groups and if your PC is a thief or multiclass that includes a thief, the choice is forced for you.



- aside from that, I'd recommend for someone who knows D&D but is "not a master", for the first play through go with any single-class character (not a thief, sorcerer, or wizard slayer). For Warriors, go with Berserker (fighter kit with a berserk rage that protects against almost all negative spell effects), Ranger (no kit), or Paladin (any of the kits are good choices as is the true class without a kit). If you go with a cleric, chose any of the kits - there are no disadvantages like other class kits. For a Mage, go with a straight Mage, no Sorcerer and no kit. This will let you experiment with all the arcane spells. Anything I didn't mention (Bard, Monk, etc) I'd leave for a following playthrough. Same with multi or duals.



- it's ok for characters to die and it's ok for your party to get wiped out and have to reload. Frankly any game that you can beat the first time through not using spoilers or walkthroughs and you don't have to reload is a game that's probably too easy. Don't be discouraged if you die.



- Don't look at any walkthroughs or guides until you've beaten the game at least once through. You can only be a virgin once and once you know something, you can't forget it. There's a guide on sorcerers.net that gives hints on things without being a complete walkthrough. Use that if you need hints, or post in the spoilers forum and let people know you want a hint.



FYI, the reason you start out with 2 spells in BG1 is because you start at level 1. In BG2 you start with 89,000 XP, so you're significantly higher level (and thus more spells).

[Guilebrush]

EmStar202 wrote...

For when I get the game, I'm just curious, what class would you guys suggest starting out as? Are any of them more complicated than other ones?

Any of the classes that can cast spells (Mages & their subtypes, Clerics & Druids, Bards) will be the more complex characters to pick up and play by having a third pillar of progression available to them (said spells.) Of course it's this very same complexity that gives them such potential for power, especially later on when you have a large volume of (powerful) spells available to the character.

The warrior types by and large only have two pillars of progression available to them (levels and items) meaning you have a lot less of information to process but the trade off is less strategic potential since they really don't offer much more than attacking from melee or from range. This could be seen as a benefit to some since they are at the most effective even with minimal micromanagement. With that said any well used and created character is more than capable of completing any of the games in the trilogy so don't worry overmuch about any class being *weak* as you play the game.

Just think about how you'd want your character to behave in combat, if you prefer the front lines start out with a Fighter or maybe a Paladin. If you want to hang back in the rear try your hand on one of the caster types. As long as you're patient you should be able to grasp enough of the game's combat system to make it through with no more than minor issues along the way.

Cipher also correctly pointed out that magic becomes much, much more emphasized in BG2 and failing to take proper account of enemy casters can prove fatal to a party. Fortunately BG2 also gives a very simple, albiet not quite ideal, solution to dealing with casters: the Inquisitor Kit. Bring one of those along with you and you can, for the most part, mow through casters with just a little thought and planning. There will always be a few execptions of course. If by the time you make it to BG2 you're more falmiliar with the magic system then other more flexible, powerful solutions open themselves up to you.

I guess what I'm trying to say is not to worry. Think of it like driving a vehicle, it can look overwhelming at first, but it soon becomes second nature once you get the hang of it. Also if many many people before you have been able to overcome their initial failures and shortcomings, there is no reason not to believe that you will be able to find success yourself after a little time "behind the wheels!" Good luck, hope this helps.

[Crippledcarny]

A first character in any RPG should really be based on the Role Playing aspect of it more than anything else, imo. Go with the class that feels right to you. You'll always learn to play what ever class you pick but you'll never learn to love a character you don't really care for. In other words don't pick a paladin if you don't like being the holy righteous do gooder.

With that said DnD games don't really allow much room to personalize your states effectively in game. You don't want to roll a wizard only to find half way threw the game your int isn't high enough to cast some of the more powerful spells. So once you've picked your class you really should do some research on what you'll need to build them up right.

I can't speak from experience in BG but most DnD rule set games can be very unforgiving.

[Irrbloss]

Dante2377 wrote...

Balderdash or G3

For the record, G3 >> Baldurdash.

I'd recommend not a thief because there is a major plot point where you need to align with one of 2 groups and if your PC is a thief or multiclass that includes a thief, the choice is forced for you.

The choice is only taken away from you if you are a single-classed thief. Duals and Multi still get to choose.

Crippledcarny wrote...
You don't want to roll a wizard only to
find half way threw the game your int isn't high enough to cast some of
the more powerful spells. So once you've picked your class you really
should do some research on what you'll need to build them up right.

I can't speak from experience in BG but most DnD rule set games can be
very unforgiving.

There is no INT requirement for casting spells. A mage with 9 INT can function as well as one with 19 INT.
There typically isn't much forethought required in BG. You have it with dual-classing and a few power-gaming situations but otherwise you'll never get into a situation where you can't do something because your ability score isn't high enough.

Modifié par Irrbloss, 18 juillet 2010 - 08:23 .

[CoM Solaufein]

Of course its worth playing. None of these new games even come close to the BG series games. If you haven't played them before, don't install any mods, play it as is first. After playing it, install mods and see how much of a difference they make to the original game.

[Crippled Jack]

I just finished BG1 and I'm importing my character in BG2...no, they're not worth playing anymore, not at all

[Swordfishtrombone]

Very much worth playing - though if you find that you don't like BG1, don't judge BG2 by that experience.



I don't much like BG1, and find it frustrating and tedious, but BG2 is quite possibly the best game I've ever played.



And if you find you don't like BG1, you don't have to play it through to get into BG2 - you learn all you need about your past ingame, so don't worry about skipping to the sequel.

[Irrbloss]

CoM Solaufein wrote...

If you haven't played them before, don't install any mods, play it as is first. After playing it, install mods and see how much of a difference they make to the original game.

That's a silly argument (and I'm directing this towards anyone who fields it).
By the same reasoning you'd have your first tooth pulled without anaesthetic so you could fully appreciate the effects of the anaesthetic the second time.

The fact there are no banters or romances in unmodded BG1 is something I daresay most people today would find unappealing, and you don't need to have experienced "the genuine BG1 experience" to come that conclusion.

Instead, play BG1 with Tutu/BGT and the BG1 NPC mod and enjoy yourself. If you then have some masochistic urge to experience BG1 as it was originally comceived, feel free to slog your way through the unmodded game and marvel at the difference mods can make.

The same type of argument can be made to playing BG2 with the G3 Fixpack.

Modifié par Irrbloss, 18 juillet 2010 - 09:43 .

[Kevin Lynch]

I think the suggestion to play unmodded first can be a good one. The thing is, people may mod their game to the point that they don't enjoy it and give up without realizing that it may have been a mod that ruined it for them. As long as players who use mods become familiar enough with what is being changed ahead of time that shouldn't be a problem, and hopefully this is the way most players use mods.



I would put unofficial patches (like the G3 Fixpack) and UI/graphical mods (like Tutu) in another category from regular mods, though. There's a big difference between correcting problems or improving the look and changing battles to insanely tough without first experiencing the default.

[cipher86]

Irrbloss wrote...

CoM Solaufein wrote...
If you haven't played them before, don't install any mods, play it as is first. After playing it, install mods and see how much of a difference they make to the original game.

That's a silly argument (and I'm directing this towards anyone who fields it).  By the same reasoning you'd have your first tooth pulled without anaesthetic  so you could fully appreciate the effects of the anaesthetic the second time.

This analogy implies that playing Baldur's Gate unmodded is like purposely putting yourself in copious amounts of pain.  Are you sure that's the message you're trying to convey?

Irrbloss wrote...
The fact there are no banters or romances in unmodded BG1 is something I daresay most people today would find unappealing, and you don't need to have experienced "the genuine BG1 experience" to come that conclusion.

I actually enjoy BG1 more without the Banter Pack than I do with it.  It's just the way I prefer it.  I don't feel like I'm pulling my own teeth with no anesthetic, I just get into the game more.  This game doesn't need the Banter Pack.  BG2 is about the story and the connections with the characters.  BG1 is about exploring the Sword Coast.  They're two very different experiences because of that, and even if you're new to the series, playing the entire series unmodded first will allow you to appreciate the differences of the two visions that much more.

Irrbloss wrote...
Instead, play BG1 with Tutu/BGT and the BG1 NPC mod and enjoy yourself. If you then have some
masochistic urge to experience BG1 as it was originally comceived, feel free to slog your way through the unmodded game and marvel at the difference mods can make.

I got into the games about a year ago.  I made the mistake of playing with Tutu and the Banter Pack my first time through, because of a recommendation that it was the only way to go.  After completing the full series once with mods, I went back again and played them in their original unmodded glory.  Unmodded BG1 doesn't feel masochistic in the least.  I enjoyed it a LOT more unmodded.  I am not a masochist, and I never once felt like I was "slogging" through the game.  It's the original vision.  I'm not normally a purist, but in this case, the original vision is so damn good that adding mods is only necessary if you feel the need to do it after you've made an effort to witness the base product.  Only once this effort has been made should a person seek out mods.

I'm going to show my fanboy colors here and say that while other games may need mods to be enjoyable, the Baldur's gate games do not.  Any Bethesda game I would recommend heartily to someone that they install a few mods off the bat.  I find that while the Baldur's Gate games have a soul, Bethesda games do not.  Because of this, when I play a Bethesda title, I end up playing for an hour or two and then spend three times as long looking for mods that will inject soul into the game.  Baldur's Gate doesn't need this.  All it needs a person to do to properly enjoy it is install it and download the latest patch.

Modifié par cipher86, 18 juillet 2010 - 02:38 .

[Dante2377]

Irrbloss wrote...

Dante2377 wrote...

Balderdash or G3

For the record, G3 >> Baldurdash.

I agree with that, but some people find some of the G3 fixes to be more than "fixes" but misinterpretations of developers intent and so they find the Baldurdash "truer".  I don't and and prefer G3, but some don't. 

Using either one is better than not using any fixpack.