45 réponses à ce sujet

[gunman78]

Don't forget about DudleyFix, a continuation of Baldurdash patches (needs to be installed after Baldurdash).

www.forgottenwars.com/dudleyfix/index.htm

[Irrbloss]

cipher86 wrote...

Irrbloss wrote...

CoM Solaufein wrote...
If you haven't played them before, don't install any mods, play it as is first. After playing it, install mods and see how much of a difference they make to the original game.

That's a silly argument (and I'm directing this towards anyone who fields it).  By the same reasoning you'd have your first tooth pulled without anaesthetic  so you could fully appreciate the effects of the anaesthetic the second time.

This analogy implies that playing Baldur's Gate unmodded is like purposely putting yourself in copious amounts of pain.  Are you sure that's the message you're trying to convey?

I was referring more to the type of choice it is*. If you know you like banter and romance (and unless BG is your first CRPG you probably do know) there is no conceivable reason for why you have to play unmodded the first time. If you then want to try the BG1 engine the experience is not diminished by first having played the game in a slightly different format; one that more people are likely to find more appealing, consequently making it a superior recommendation to new players.

*But is a sense purposely playing unmodded BG1 can be like purposely putting yourself in pain. Many, maybe even most, of the people who play unmodded BG1 then switch over to Tutu/BGT and never look back. I often hear this rationalised as along the lines of "now I have done that and can now play the game as I really want to play it." I suspect this is also behind every recommendation for playing BG2 before BG1. When you are "used to the game" (read: less likely to be scared off) you can subject yourself to BG1, but play BG2 first.

I'm not normally a purist, but in this case, the original vision is so damn good that adding mods is only necessary if you feel the need to do it after you've made an effort to witness the base product.  Only once this effort has been made should a person seek out mods.

If you know you like banter and romance, why should you wait? One has banter and romance and the other has no banter and no romance. Which are you more likely to enjoy?

and download the latest patch.

Which ties into the other kind of mod I would recommend you do not play without the first time: bug-fixing mods. Do you like bugs? No? Then exactly what is you incentive to play a more buggy game instead of a less buggy game? Is you game experience somehow enhanced by having Gorf kill bystanders in loop? Maybe the game's better when you can't de-charm Glaicas (like was intended) because of a bug? No, everyone should install bug-fixing mods, first time playing or otherwise.

Dante2377 wrote...

Irrbloss wrote...

Dante2377
wrote...

Balderdash or G3

For the record, G3
>> Baldurdash.

I agree with that, but some
people find some of the G3 fixes to be more than "fixes" but
misinterpretations of developers intent and so they find the Baldurdash
"truer".

Commence undirected rant: The G3 Fixpack is not more or less "true" than Baldurdash, other than maybe in the sense Baldurdash fixes a lot less bugs and consequently have a lower absolute number of ambigous cases. In fact, Baldurdash contains a lot of stuff rejected by the G3 Fixpack because of its arbitrary nature (such as the rogue stone). People say this either because they "grew up" with Baldurdash and that's what they are used to (so Baldurdash gets carte blanche whereas the G3 Fixpack is scrutinised) or because their intent is malicious.

Modifié par Irrbloss, 18 juillet 2010 - 08:41 .

[cipher86]

Irrbloss wrote...
*snip*

Meh.  No use word-for-wording another post - it's pretty obvious where I stand.  Though I don't consider unofficial patches mods, sorry if it came across that way.

[Gorthaur X]

Since EasuTutu leaves the original BG1 on your computer, there's no reason you can't just install your desired mods on BG1TuTu, play it side by side with the vanilla BG1 for a bit, and see which you prefer. Personally, I find that being able to play with a 1680 x 1050 resolution rather than 640 x 480 is pretty much reason enough to go with TuTu in itself, but tastes do vary.

[HoonDing]

Only big difference original BG makes is that the game isn't paused when accessing the inventory, making things sometimes harder than they should be and requiring epically fast mouse skills at times.

[gunman78]

Gorthaur X wrote...

Since EasuTutu leaves the original BG1 on your computer, there's no reason you can't just install your desired mods on BG1TuTu, play it side by side with the vanilla BG1 for a bit, and see which you prefer. Personally, I find that being able to play with a 1680 x 1050 resolution rather than 640 x 480 is pretty much reason enough to go with TuTu in itself, but tastes do vary.

That would be correct if Tutu or BGT would be a genuine replica of BG but with better resolution and interface, and we can say it is - for more than 90% of the game, but unfortunatelly there are inconsistencies that spoils the original game. From bad monster random spawns to the faster movement speed (in BG1 you could not outrun a wolf), or the pause in inventory screen (which is ridiculous, when characters are in melee to pass potions from one to other), and to entire chunks of dialogues simply gone (when killing the Karoug on Balduran Island).

[Irrbloss]

gunman78 wrote...

and to entire chunks of dialogues simply gone (when killing the Karoug on Balduran Island).

Huh? Karoug has some dialogue when you first meet him but nothing more. He has the same dialogue in Tutu and BGT.

[EmStar202]

Wow, a lot of conflicting opinions here. Hmm, well I do have to say I really do like party banter and romance...



What exactly do the romance mods do exactly? Do they just take the romance from BG2 and put it into BG1? Or are they completely new, fan-made dialogue? I may download the romance and party banter, but do you need the tutu for that? Because if you do, and it's true what gunman78 is saying about randow enemies and other screw-ups the original game, then I suppose I'll just go modless.

[miss_daydream]

It's all completely new dialogue. But if you're going to play the same character into BG2 it is worth noting that none of the romances continue into the second game, due to the NPCs not appearing, unless you install other mods. You need wither Tutu or BGT for the banter pack. I wouldn't really describe anything in Tutu as a 'screw-up' (although it has been a long time since I played the original so my memory might be off). Random spawns are increased in number of enemies and frequency, making gaining your first few levels harder in Tutu until the attacks are easier to survive. I believe someone said BGT doesn't have that problem but I've never used it so can't say anything about that.

Personally, I would say the advantage of having party banter outweighs any disadvantage of not seeing the game in its original form (what's the point of that if you aren't going to enjoy the silence?). But that's just me.

Modifié par miss_daydream, 19 juillet 2010 - 08:41 .

[Irrbloss]

EmStar202 wrote...
What exactly do the romance mods do exactly? Do they just take the romance from BG2 and put it into BG1? Or are they completely new, fan-made dialogue?

There are NPCs in BG1. They do not consist of more than a few voice clips in the unmodded game. What the BG1 NPC mod does is to flesh out the characters by adding dialogue and characterisation. The romances are extensions of this. It's all new and fan-made.

I may download the romance and party banter, but do you need the tutu for that?

You do need the BG2 engine (i.e. EasyTutu or BGT). The BG1 engine is too primitive for anything but the most rudimentary mods.

Because if you do, and it's true what gunman78 is saying about randow enemies and other screw-ups the original game, then I suppose I'll just go modless.

I have no complaints about Tutu vs vanilla BG1. There are a few minor differences, but I would hardly call them "screw-ups". I would say that you only mind Tutu if you are used to BG1 and want things to be the same. Edit: Obviously it is possible to prefer the BG1 engine on rational grounds; I'm not saying it has to be mule-headedness 

Modifié par Irrbloss, 19 juillet 2010 - 09:23 .

[cipher86]

I've been doing some research with BGT, so if you really want to use mods your first time through, I'd suggest BGT over Tutu.  In another topic (maybe this one? I don't have the time to check right now) I explained how Tutu has set spawn numbers, whereas Vanilla has diverse and usually more "fair" mob sizes.  That, to me, is a big problem with recommending mods to newbies.  Tutu will make the game more difficult than original or BGT.

With that in mind, I'm still against modding the game your first time through, but that's because it's what I did first and I found the original experience much better.  However, if you really want to add a lot more personality to your BG1 characters, you will need either Tutu or BGT.  Again, I'd recommend BGT.

To install BGT, you must do a full install of BG1 and the expansion pack, then apply the latest official patch.  Do not apply any mods to your BG1 install.

Then, do a full install of BG2 and ToB.  Apply the latest official patch.  If you want more bugfixes, apply one of the unofficial patches afterwards (I use the one from G3, found here.

Information on BGT (as well as the download link) can be found here.  One you've done all of the above, you install BGT.

Once BGT is installed and working (I'd run it once and start playing the game for a few minutes to make sure it's stable, just in case), you can add the NPC banter pack to BG1.  The banter pack is found on the G3 website.  It has two packages - the required one being the banter and romance pack, the optional being music to accompany the new banters.

Make sure you read everything about each mod, what it's doing to your game, and how to properly install it.  I've given you the proper order here, but sometimes one mod will do something another mod does as well so having the later mod overwrite it (or having the previous mod install it instead of the later one) can cause problems.  I don't think you'll have an issue with the suggestions I've listed here, but better to be safe.  Also make sure you're educated on the "Beregost Bug" - it comes with running BGI on the BGII engine, which means if you use Tutu or BGT, you need to know about it.

I wouldn't go any further than that your first time through.  Just take note of things you'd like to see improved for your next playthrough (because it will happen), and then check if there's a mod for it.

[Irrbloss]

cipher86 wrote...
Also make sure you're educated on the "Beregost Bug" - it comes with running BGI on the BGII engine, which means if you use Tutu or BGT, you need to know about it.

As I said in whatever other thread the matter was brought up in, the Beregost crash bug today only happens with Tutu. The issue is fixed in BGT.
On Tutu you can avoid the bug with careful saving, but if accident should strike, there is this utility for fixing corrupted save files.

(Strictly speaking, the bug does not come from running BG1 in the BG2 engine. The bug is because of some illegal data in the Beregost area which leads to a cascading problem resulting in save corruption. The root cause of the problem exists in BG1 as well, but there is likely some safe-guard against it in the BG1 executable that keeps it from causing problems. Since the BG2 executable lacks this safe-guard you only observe the problem when you use one of the engine conversion mods. The fix that is included in BGT fixes the root cause.)

Modifié par Irrbloss, 19 juillet 2010 - 10:06 .

[PicklePepperPiper]

If you do decide taking BGT, just be aware that the experience given for disarming traps and opening locks is a little bugged - either you get FAR too many experience points at the beginning, or insignificant amounts in BGII. I'm sure there's a way to get around it, but being a Tutu fangirl, I've never bothered to to check

For what it's worth, I've always been immensely satisfied with Tutu, and I don't regard the set spawn number as an issue.

Also, just to clarify a few issues with a BG1 full install. You will have to select "Custom" and check all the boxes. A little box will pop up saying that your computer doesn't have enough space. Simply ignore this and proceed with the install. BG was made in a time where 500MB HDD were still common, so it can't calculate space for whopping 320GB HDDs :-D Ahh, nostalgia.

-PPP

[cipher86]

Irrbloss wrote...
As I said in whatever other thread the matter was brought up in, the Beregost crash bug today only happens with Tutu. The issue is fixed in BGT.

Could you link me to something that verifies this?  It's the sort of thing I'd need to hear from the horse's mouth.

[Irrbloss]

cipher86 wrote...

Irrbloss wrote...
As I said in whatever other thread the matter was brought up in, the Beregost crash bug today only happens with Tutu. The issue is fixed in BGT.

Could you link me to something that verifies this?  It's the sort of thing I'd need to hear from the horse's mouth.

I did that here.

[cipher86]

Damn that's tight.

[Crippledcarny]

Yeah, I've been threw Beregost many times already with BGT and have yet to see the bug. It seems pretty well fixed by it.

[EmStar202]

Edit: Nevermind I figured it out. Thanks for all your help earlier guys! I really appreciate it. I'm off to go play the game now.

Modifié par EmStar202, 24 juillet 2010 - 04:57 .

[casedawgz]

Bear in mind that you might NEED to install mods just to get bg1 to play. I was having tons of problems getting bg1 to work properly on my vista enabled notebook (fog of war was messed up and distracting) and couldn't resolve the problem without converting to tutu.

[The Fred]

Personally I'm one of those who'd recommend playing it more or less unmodded the first time though - not just so you appreciate the mods more, but also because most mods beyond bugfixes change the fundamentals of the game. "Be-gone" mods are popular for repeat players but harm the story for first-timers. SCS and tactics mods are great for veterans up for a challenge, but probably too tough for beginners. Even TuTu plays BG1 with the BG2 engine. Many people prefer that, but it messes up the rules a lot (and apparently makes BG1 a lot easier). There's an argument that quest packs, especially things like Unfinished Business (which only adds stuff which was going to be in anyway) may as well be added, because who really cares whether you know which quests weren't in the original?

[nikki191]

dont play as a bard right through to the end of TOB.. i did and ended up a very secondary role. the spells, etc i had just werent up to scratch