113 réponses à ce sujet

[awpdevil]

Mordin should be up there with Miranda. He doesn't have those long ability cooldowns like everyone else does. You can spam cryoblast/fireblast with him like every four seconds.

[SmokeyNinjas]

If you have the incisor rifle then any squadmate that uses it is automatically top tier as you can pretty much just sit back & let them complete Insanity for you

[I Tsunayoshi I]

numotsbane wrote...

Trying to rank them all objectively, and isolated from enemy type or player class is hard. they're all very good if you take them with a certain strategy in mind.
admittedly, Miranda and kasumi are very good most of the time, but in certain situations there will definitely be others that are better.
I would say there is no really bad squadmate - and yes, I am including jacob and tali in that. It also depends on what class you play as.

The tier list I made in the OP is based on overall skillset + weapon set.

Miranda defines god tier in this game. Overload, Warp, and Slam give her an unparalleled versatility that is hard pressed to find in almost any other character. Personally I will admit to underestimate Slam being that Warp in the hands of a party character doesnt need direct line of sight or a guarantee that the PC could make the same shot. Add on top of the fact that a player can easily make Biotics wrap around cover like a bullet in Wanted and you have a busted ability on your hands. Having Overload and Warp alone gives Miranda NO bad matchups and having a passive that effects the entire squad means that she has the defacto best skill set you can get your hands on.

Miranda having access to SMGs and Pistols is is the only possible factor that could be said to balance her out as she cant use anything with decent range without the Stolen Memory DLC which would give you the Locust to use, though because the AIs have better auto aim than the PC, the Tempest lack of accuracy is a bit of a moot point.

Overall Rating: S

Kasumi is the second character that could be said to be a god tier type character. Shadow Strike has to be the best Tech skill to come out since the overpowered revamp on Overload. Effectively a free kill on Casual to Veteran with the Deadly evolution and possibly the same results with the Rapid evolution at the expense of giving up 100 dmg for the insane cooldown. Add on top of the fact that Kasumi can recover while cloaked and the moment she attacks drawing any and all threat away for the few moments she is in the middle of the mob and you have an skill that any Shep would kill for. Add the overpowered Overload and the usefull uberstun in the form of Flashbang and you have a character that is almost harder to kill than Grunt on a drunk bender.

Having the same weapon lineup as Miranda again acts a mild balancing option for her though with the Locust, its a moot point coupled with AI ability to snipe with a shotgun if they had something more accurate then the Eviserator.

The only thing that I see a real flaw, albeit one that can be easily overlooked due to the power she has in her stun and kill skils, is that she loses out slightly to Biotics.

Overall Rating: A+

Garrus doesnt change much from his role on ME1 with the condensing of skills leaving him with Concussive Shot and Overload with Armor-Piercing Ammo after becoming loyal. CS gives him a generic option for crowd control while Overload lets him eat Tech enemies for lunch. His saving grace comes after he becomes loyal and you get AP Ammo which if evolved turns into Squad Ammo which can be devistating with 3 attacking chars dealing an extra 50% dmg with every bullet that connects. Tungsten is even more potent and deals the highest base increase to damage with a whopping 70% boost to dmg, increasing his ability to deal more bang for his buck while flinging mild or heavy stuns based on evolutions on other skills.

AP/Tungsten Ammo is also one of the top Ammos in the game with only Warp/Heavy Warp in any form of direct compitition due the one target difference between them. Both do nothing to shields, AP effects Armor, and Warp effects Barrier

Garrus' weapon set compliments the way he should fight either by picking away with the sniper rifle or closer ranges with the AR. Now having free access to the Incisor makes his sniping deadly with the burst fire he can put out and the VIndicator doing the same thing up close when long range isnt an option can lead some very interesting and fast firefights.

Having nothing to deal with Biotics is almost a moot point when overwhelming firepower can be used to strip defenses and finish the job with bullets.

Overall Rating: A+

Thane is a tad under rated imo. Having Warp and Throw allows him to deal out some cruel stuns to keep a crowd in control to either be sniped or chewed up by bullets, but there is a glaring skill that most if not everyone comes to hate after a playthrough. Shredder Ammo is generally considered useless due to only having an effect on HP but also being restricted to organic enemies only. With mechs being around for a decent amount of time combined with more organics having some form of protection when getting into high levels of difficulty, making this a skill that most people want to take points out of by any means at hand.

His weapon set allows him to be versatile in the field with SMGs for dealing with close up threats and sniper for dealing out quick kills after placing crowd control on a mob. With access to both the Locust and Incisor, he can be potent with no skills at all if the player wanted to play that way.

Being specialized more for dealing with anything that isnt a synthetic, he does start to falter when you have a Geth mission or dealing with Eclipse mercs due to mechs being in greater numbers with that group in particular.

Overall Rating A

Jack is far from the useless character that some people would assume from first glance. Shockwave is a bit lack luster where Pull and Warp Ammo come out to shine. Pull being able to set up massive damage from other Biotic attacks and Warp Ammo shots. Warp Ammo is also one of the arguablly best ammos in the game (see Garrus/AP Ammo).

Her weapon set on the other hand is a bit on the weak side even with the advantage of the Eviserator shotgun. Having a rather weakset of weapons and little way to capitize is the main downside to using Jack. Coupled with no answers to shields and she really starts to fall short.

Overall Rating: A- Original Rating: A

Grunt is a tank on steroids. Fortifcation making an already bulky character even more so makes it extremely hard to kill Grunt on purpose as long as the player keeps an eye on him. Incendiary/Inferno Ammo is potent in putting down other krogan and vorcha enemies in particular by blocking their regen and still dealing out damage over time when they are not taking hits. Squad Incendiary means the firey love can be spread around if you are looking at large numbers of regerating enemies. Concussive Shot gives him a minor CC option though frankly useless, imo, in the hands of a tank better off sticking to AR

Weapon set is decent enough for a soldier lite for ARs at mid range and Shotguns for close range, which leave him lacking at long range

Overall Rating: A

Samara was underestimated in the same way I overestimated Jack. Pull and Throw are good CC skills to use and in combo can lead to some mean kills by way of the player or herself. Reave outright tears up anything that isnt shielded and is the only other option to my knowledge at least that shuts down regen. Reave's regen effect for the user isnt a bad thing either in a pinch when you cant quite get back enough to catch a break.

Weapon set is actually a bit odd since SMG is a bit useless since Samara shouldnt be getting up close in a fight though the AR lets her tear into enemies at range and pick off anything floating around off of Pull. Standard lack of options for techs outside of the SMG is the only downside to Samara that I can really see and she can still hold her own in a fight.

Overall Rating: A Original Rating: A-

Morinth is pretty much Samara lite and does the same thing as her mother, but with a pistol over SMG and Dominate as her loyalty skill, she really is lacking in anything to deal with techs.

Overal Rating: B Original Rating A-

Mordin is a bit of an oddball. Incenerate works on almost everything and maxed out at Blast will make short work almost everything. Cryo on the other hand can come off as useless and usually is a love/hate skill for most players. Neural Shock gives him good CC and helps to suppliment the close quaters that Mordin always tries to get into with his SMG.

Being a bit quirky in battles tends to be the best thing going for him and going against him since running in like he can tank like Grunt will get him killed more times than not.

Overall Rating: A-

Tali and Legion might as well be mentioned together as they both share two skills in common. AI hacking is pretty much the most useless skill in the game with little to no use at all, while their Tech Drones can lead to some fun shenanigans when controlled, allowing both to have some crowd and threat control options.

Tali comes up really short with Energy Drain coming up too late to really matter and Shotguns being the last weapon she should ever be using even when she is leaching shields to keep herself alive.

Legion on the other hand has Geth Shield Boost for extended survivablity and a weapon set that allows him to fight on a better level with AR and having access to the tank killer made for ripping skulls from someones neck.

Both are a bit too overspecialized for their own good though Legion comes off a bit better in the long run with access to better weapons overall.

Tali Overall Rating: B
Legion Overall Rating: A- Original Rating: B

Zaeed is just a set up a bit oddly. Concussive Shot for light CC and Disruptor Ammo for dealing with shielded enemies. Inferno Grenade comes up in the rear to give him outs to any thing that isnt a barrier, but his skills dont really do much to help him with one steady role. Its almost if he is supposed to be a jack of all trades minus the skills to even do most of his roles effectively.

Standard weapon set for someone meant to be on the front line makes him look like a tank lite, but with little support either way, he starts to fall short unless his skills are kept in strict control of the player.

Overall Rating: B

Jacob has almost nothing going for him. Decent skills? Not really with Pull, Incendiary Ammo, and Barrier, leaving him with little to work with there. Decent weapon set? Nope. Shotgun really doesnt do any good when Pull is going to be hitting guys he isnt near. AI doesnt even appear to act very smart either since after ammo is turned on, he is more than likely going to just run in and use Barrier to screw himself over instead of doing any sort of CC and capitalizing on the extra damage from Pull. Hes a walking case of russian roulette and you cant win for losing.

Overall Rating: C

tl:dr for those that dont want to read

S: Miranda
A+: Garrus, Kasumi
A: Thane, Grunt, Samara
A-: Jack, Mordin. Legion
B: Morinth, Tali
C: Jacob

[I Tsunayoshi I]

awpdevil wrote...

Mordin should be up there with Miranda. He doesn't have those long ability cooldowns like everyone else does. You can spam cryoblast/fireblast with him like every four seconds.

Being 50/50 on skills hurts him more than he helps and he doesnt have anything in comparison when it comes to being versatile as Miranda.

Most characters with Snipers tend to be weak if their name isnt Garrus or Legion, making the Incisor a moot point in their hands.

[numotsbane]

I agree with most of what you say. except I rate Garrus pretty low, because he always tries to tank and dies. also, I rate Jack, mordin and Zaeed pretty highly.

but what I'm trying to say is: yes, objectively Miranda may be awesome, but that doesn't help you when you want to actually play the game. because when you play the game, objective analysis doesn't matter.

eg. I personally never used Miranda with my sentinel, even when fighting collectors - because the jack/Samara combo is superior.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

numotsbane wrote...

I agree with most of what you say. except I rate Garrus pretty low, because he always tries to tank and dies. also, I rate Jack, mordin and Zaeed pretty highly.
but what I'm trying to say is: yes, objectively Miranda may be awesome, but that doesn't help you when you want to actually play the game. because when you play the game, objective analysis doesn't matter.
eg. I personally never used Miranda with my sentinel, even when fighting collectors - because the jack/Samara combo is superior.

Miranda is a must more for me because my Sentinel build has a weak Overload to use in emergencies while her Overload is maxed and will blow a synthetic or shield away no effort so I can either punt with Throw and kill with Warp. I havent taken Kasumi out except for loyalty missions so far and more than likely will sub her out for Samara to help cover the punting detail on husks while Miranda makes a mess out Scions with dual Warps picking at them and me using Tungsten Ammo to finish the job if its still alive afterwards.

My main for the suicide mission will be Thane for triple Warps for taking out Harbingers in a while while keeping another Throw on hand for the husks half way through.

[tonnactus]

Not this again.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

tonnactus wrote...

Have a free bump

Thanks. Mind pitching into the thread?

[tonnactus]

I never took miranda.Want to destroy shields? Garrus had power bonuses and kasumi shadowstrike is far better to took out shields. Armor? Mordin and Kasumi.The best is squad disruptor from zaeed Barriers? Have warp or reave on most of my characters anyway. Or warp ammo on soldiers or infiltrators.

If this game didnt have a global cooldown,she would be the best. But this isnt the case,so better squads without her exists. On harder difficulties,her pitty bonuses didnt change anything anyway.

Modifié par tonnactus, 17 juillet 2010 - 03:26 .

[Pacifien]

If I actually had to assign a grade to the squadmates, it'd probably go a bit as follows (and I'd likely change my mind in an hour):

A: Miranda, Kasumi - Versatile skillsets. The SMG keeps them at a good distance.
A-: Samara, Grunt - Powerhouses in their own right. However, Samara's biotics are limited on Hardcore/Insanity until she gets Reave. Grunt is limited by the overall limitations of shotguns.
B+: Legion - I have always made considerable use of Legion's Combat Drone. His GSB makes his Widow a deadly weapon. The downsides are that I don't make much use of AI Hacking (but I have to put points into it to get Combat Drone, which means I won't be able to max out either his passive and his GSB) and the cooldown time on both the Combat Drone and GSB are high. So what gets Legion rated as highly as he does is that he's always been a formidable soldier for me.
B: Thane, Mordin - Thane's Throw and Warp are valuable, just as Mordin's Incineration Blast, Cryo Blast, and Neural Shock. Thane's weapon bonus makes him a deadly sniper. However, Thane's Shredder Ammo isn't nearly as valuable to me as the chance to fully upgrade his three other powers. Mordin's powers are great support, but he is a weak soldier.
B-: Jack, Garrus - On Veteran and below, I'd rate Jack higher. I'm required to play too much support to her on the higher difficulties, though. I don't want to support the squadmates, I want them to support me or go off on their own. Jack also gets dinged for the limitations of the shotgun. Garrus's Overload and Concussive Shot are both great. His armor-piercing ammo isn't as detrimental to have as Thane's Shredder Ammo. He has all the weapons a powerful soldier needs. So why is he rated so low? 'Cause he. won't. stay. alive.
C+: Zaeed - Zaeed rates low because his Disruptor Ammo isn't as much use to me as a squad of Overload. His Inferno Grenade isn't much better. Concussive Shot is always a solid power for a squadmate to have. He's a good soldier, but doesn't have that pizazz for a great squadmate.
C: Tali, Jacob - Everything Tali can do, Legion can do better. Anything Jacob can do, Grunt or Samara can do better. Plus, they get downgraded like all other squadmates with shotguns.

I am probably being overly generous to Jack and harsh to Jacob. In fact, I'd probably raise Jacob to C+ or B- if I weren't so lazy to bother with retyping. And I've certainly used Tali effectively, but she there are just so many other squadmates that I can use better.

1) Every squadmate who uses a shotgun got points knocked off with the exception of Grunt. Grunt can take the abuse while getting into shotgun range. Every other shotgun user cannot. If you want a squadmate to have a weapon that works at short range, you better damn well make sure they can handle being at short range.
2) Biotic squadmates are getting dinged for simply being hindered in their biotic abilities at higher difficulties.

Writing this, I'm struck again about how Bioware seriously needed to allow for retraining of squadmate abilities. With the exception of Miranda and Jacob, the only way to make full use of the talent points for a squadmate is if you went with a 4/0/4/4 or 4/4/0/4 combination. And I doubt anyone actually went with a 4/4/0/4 combination.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

tonnactus wrote...

I never took miranda.Want to destroy shields? Garrus had power bonuses and kasumi shadowstrike is far better to took out shields. Armor? Mordin and Kasumi.The best is squad disruptor from zaeed Barriers? Have warp or reave on most of my characters anyway. Or warp ammo on soldiers or infiltrators.

If this game didnt have a global cooldown,she would be the best. But this isnt the case,so better squads without her exists. On harder difficulties,her pitty bonuses didnt change anything anyway.

After playing with my Sentinel, I'm glad there is a global cooldown. Stuff I do with Miranda in my party is still nuts. Overload someone with Miranda and I have a Warp and Throw with their name on it already making a loop for the back of the skull. Considering the evil combos that can be done, its good that a single character cant drop 3 skills at the same time or Soldiers would suck and Engineers, Adepts, and Sentinels would be the most busted classes around by being able to rip into anything at will and leave the scraps behind.

[tonnactus]

Pacifien wrote...

Tali - Once you get her Energy Drain, she's got a good substitute for Overload as well as a vital means of keeping herself alive. Combat Drone is incredibly effective when used in conjuction with either your Engineer's or Legion's Combat Drone. Alternatively, Area AI Hacking is like a mage calling forth their familiar to join the battle for you. Make her use a heavy pistol, odds are you won't have to worry about her staying behind cover either.

 
Its awfull that combat drone blocked al the other abilities for 30 s.With Tali in a group,you had to put squad power usage on manual,just to make sure that she didnt waste her drone and didnt have better abilities like energy drain or hacking when needed.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

tonnactus wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Tali - Once you get her Energy Drain, she's got a good substitute for Overload as well as a vital means of keeping herself alive. Combat Drone is incredibly effective when used in conjuction with either your Engineer's or Legion's Combat Drone. Alternatively, Area AI Hacking is like a mage calling forth their familiar to join the battle for you. Make her use a heavy pistol, odds are you won't have to worry about her staying behind cover either.

 
Its awfull that combat drone blocked al the other abilities for 30 s.With Tali in a group,you had to put squad power usage on manual,just to make sure that she didnt waste her drone and didnt have better abilities like energy drain or hacking when needed.

Except that Tali is better off using Drone and picking stuff off with a pistol than using a Shotty w/ Drain. Hacking is pretty much always useless since you will more than likely kill whatever you catch.

[tonnactus]

Sora Kitano wrote...



After playing with my Sentinel, I'm glad there is a global cooldown. Stuff I do with Miranda in my party is still nuts. Overload someone with Miranda and I have a Warp and Throw with their name on it already making a loop for the back of the skull.

Miranda as a sentinel squadmate?? Better have someone which allow it to make warp explosion from the start of the game like jacob or jack. She is simply redunant and dont add anything to the group if shepardt is a sentinel.

[tonnactus]

Sora Kitano wrote...



Except that Tali is better off using Drone and picking stuff off with a pistol than using a Shotty w/ Drain. Hacking is pretty much always useless since you will more than likely kill whatever you catch.

Hacking annoying loki and fenris mechs mechs and then focus on enemies who dont moove to your position . The drone could be destroyed very fast on the hardest difficulty and block other usefull abilities.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

tonnactus wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...



After playing with my Sentinel, I'm glad there is a global cooldown. Stuff I do with Miranda in my party is still nuts. Overload someone with Miranda and I have a Warp and Throw with their name on it already making a loop for the back of the skull.

Miranda as a sentinel squadmate?? Better have someone which allow it to make warp explosion from the start of the game like jacob or jack. She is simply redunant and dont add anything to the group if shepardt is a sentinel.

I only Stack Warps for enemies I really dont feel like playing around with, like Scions or Harbingers. Doesnt help that Warp can tear the mess out of almost anything it touches without the explosion or that most fights are over before I can set up one explosion.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

tonnactus wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...



Except that Tali is better off using Drone and picking stuff off with a pistol than using a Shotty w/ Drain. Hacking is pretty much always useless since you will more than likely kill whatever you catch.

Hacking annoying loki and fenris mechs mechs and then focus on enemies who dont moove to your position . The drone could be destroyed very fast on the hardest difficulty and block other usefull abilities.

Cant believe I missed this post, but I have a better time slinging a Throw or two to put both out of their misery. More so when a Throw will punt them out of sight or even better out of mind.

[Pacifien]

tonnactus wrote...
Hacking annoying loki and fenris mechs mechs and then focus on enemies who dont moove to your position . The drone could be destroyed very fast on the hardest difficulty and block other usefull abilities.

This is why I had to pair Tali with Legion because oftentimes the Combat Drone would get destroyed before the cooldown allowed for a new one. This didn't always happen, though. I had both their Attack Drones on a Geth Prime while I concentrated on a few other geth, and never had to worry about the Prime until I was ready for him.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Pacifien wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
Hacking annoying loki and fenris mechs mechs and then focus on enemies who dont moove to your position . The drone could be destroyed very fast on the hardest difficulty and block other usefull abilities.

This is why I had to pair Tali with Legion because oftentimes the Combat Drone would get destroyed before the cooldown allowed for a new one. This didn't always happen, though. I had both their Attack Drones on a Geth Prime while I concentrated on a few other geth, and never had to worry about the Prime until I was ready for him.

I see little use of both of them because one is kinda awful and the other is always picked up way too late to matter for me.

[tonnactus]

Pacifien wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
Hacking annoying loki and fenris mechs mechs and then focus on enemies who dont moove to your position . The drone could be destroyed very fast on the hardest difficulty and block other usefull abilities.

This is why I had to pair Tali with Legion because oftentimes the Combat Drone would get destroyed before the cooldown allowed for a new one. This didn't always happen, though. I had both their Attack Drones on a Geth Prime while I concentrated on a few other geth, and never had to worry about the Prime until I was ready for him.

I wonder myself if the game designers were on drugs when they decided to gave squadmate combat drones a 30 sec cooldown in a global cooldown system. Just ridicoulus and there isnt any reason for it. Shepardts cooldown is 3s. I would be okay if they had a 9-12 second cooldown like all other squadmates abilities.Its also idiotic that geth hunters are not affected by drones even when they didnt have cloak for some seconds.

Modifié par tonnactus, 17 juillet 2010 - 03:59 .

[tonnactus]

Sora Kitano wrote...

Cant believe I missed this post, but I have a better time slinging a Throw or two to put both out of their misery. More so when a Throw will punt them out of sight or even better out of mind.

Not then they are in pairs.Then you need to strip the defenses of each one before you could use throw field.Destroying the "protection" of one and hacking it was far better.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

tonnactus wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
Hacking annoying loki and fenris mechs mechs and then focus on enemies who dont moove to your position . The drone could be destroyed very fast on the hardest difficulty and block other usefull abilities.

This is why I had to pair Tali with Legion because oftentimes the Combat Drone would get destroyed before the cooldown allowed for a new one. This didn't always happen, though. I had both their Attack Drones on a Geth Prime while I concentrated on a few other geth, and never had to worry about the Prime until I was ready for him.

I wonder myself if the game designers were on drugs when they decided to gave squadmate combat drones a 30 sec cooldown in a global cooldown system. Just ridicoulus and there isnt any reason for it. Shepardts cooldown is 3s. I would be okay if they had a 9-12 second cooldown like all other squadmates abilities.Its also idiotic that geth hunters are not affected by drones even when they didnt have cloak for some seconds.

Maybe because they thought ahead about a Engineer Shep using Legion and Tali for a constant stream of drones out, essentially having a perminant distraction wandering around in every fight. Sounds evil just having something like that when you have a Sniper in the team capable of using two of the most potent sniper rifles in the game right now. I would hate to see what would happen with an Infiltraitor or Soldier sniping alongside a drone or two floating around.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

tonnactus wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

Cant believe I missed this post, but I have a better time slinging a Throw or two to put both out of their misery. More so when a Throw will punt them out of sight or even better out of mind.

Not then they are in pairs.Then you need to strip the defenses of each one before you could use throw field.Destroying the "protection" of one and hacking it was far better.

I have no intention of playing on a high enough difficulty to garner such a need. More times than not, I dont have to deal with stripping protection and can send out a pair or Heavy Throws to knock out out a pair of dim bulbs walking into a crossfire.

[Arhka]

Note: Concussive Shot can be used as an anti-barrier against regular enemies, and still provide a surprisingly hard hit to middle tier barrier enemies. PC's Throw is also spammable enoough to also clear barriers(especially Heavy Throw)

Modifié par Arhka, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:45 .

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Arhka wrote...

Note: Concussive Shot can be used as an anti-barrier against regular enemies, and still provide a surprisingly hard hit to middle tier barrier enemies. PC's Throw is also spammable enoough to also clear barriers(especially Heavy Throw)

CS is a decent skill to have, but in most cases I would rather do some stripping and killing before the AI has a mind to use it. Most times I see a barrier, I fling out a warp to pound them out of cover or leave them stunned long enough for a quick burst to finish. I have been playing more aggressive with my Sentinel than I have with my RevSoldier.

Throw is almost like my version of a shotgun since I dont have to wait more than a couple seconds and can have a couple out at a time. Launching people in the Dantius Towers is fun. Especially when they think they are safe in cover and I punt them over the edge of a ledge.

Modifié par Sora Kitano, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:50 .