So if this was the case for you, the rules as they were before definitely aren't as they are now.
The Way Inn peristent world
Débuté par
Varanon
, juil. 17 2010 08:45
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 07 juin 2011 - 06:08
Varanon
-
- Members
- 5 messages
AndiamoAlaparte,
You are asked to stay in character. This means you shouldn't run for long stretches, that's true. However, horses can of course gallop, and you are allowed to do that.
Sorry, but there is no such rule. The in character rule still applies, but of course, you can run in life-threatening situations. The rule is "no OOC running"... running to and from monsters is of course IC. Running from one dungeon to the next, or one loot chest to the next is not. This kind of play style is discouraged on almost every RP server I ever played on.
Not on the same day, no. Most RP servers have such a rule, though. You can of course do the same dungeon again later.
This is wrong, there is no such rule. You can buy camping kits in shops, and there are camp sites around the surface. Would that be the case if there was such a rule ? We had people camp inside the town walls, on the road in front of the town gate and so on, so if you were one of those, then yeah, you have been told not to rest on this particular spot.
Ignoring the presumptous comment, the reason for not allowing evil alignment is simple: We had several players of evil alignment in the past. After some time, the "trouble" they caused in character caused out of character grief, and drained us DM of much of the motivation we had. As such, we decided that evil characters would no longer be allowed. This doesn't have anything to do with thinking anyone of being immature, it's just been a drag for all of us, DMs and players alike, so we stopped it.
This is also a rule that is frequently found on RP servers, for exaclty that reason.
Actually, it's level 4. There are a lot of servers with varrying amounts of applications and restrictions. The level cap system is not there because we don't trust you, it's just to allow us DMs to observe if people play their characters. There are servers out there that don't allow you to level past a certain level if you don#t have at least half of your experience through roleplay XP.
And applications are only necessary for playing divine classes like paladins and clerics.
I can't comment on your experience with the DM, since I wasn't there. I'm sorry if that actually offended you. However, knowing the DM in question, I have my sincerest doubts that there was any bad intention behind it.
If you do not like the rules, I can understand that, and wish you all the best in finding another server that suits your needs better than The Way Inn.
-No Running to dungeons (Running is not and never has been a viable form of travel, and especially not on horseback)
You are asked to stay in character. This means you shouldn't run for long stretches, that's true. However, horses can of course gallop, and you are allowed to do that.
-No Running in dungeons (Moving quickly in a dangerous, life-threatening situation is OOC)
Sorry, but there is no such rule. The in character rule still applies, but of course, you can run in life-threatening situations. The rule is "no OOC running"... running to and from monsters is of course IC. Running from one dungeon to the next, or one loot chest to the next is not. This kind of play style is discouraged on almost every RP server I ever played on.
-No repeating the same dungeon (You're a gold farmer)
Not on the same day, no. Most RP servers have such a rule, though. You can of course do the same dungeon again later.
-No resting in the wilderness (Camping is metagaming and OOC in the FR universe)
This is wrong, there is no such rule. You can buy camping kits in shops, and there are camp sites around the surface. Would that be the case if there was such a rule ? We had people camp inside the town walls, on the road in front of the town gate and so on, so if you were one of those, then yeah, you have been told not to rest on this particular spot.
-No playing characters of Evil alignment (You're too immature to play one without DM supervision at all times)
Ignoring the presumptous comment, the reason for not allowing evil alignment is simple: We had several players of evil alignment in the past. After some time, the "trouble" they caused in character caused out of character grief, and drained us DM of much of the motivation we had. As such, we decided that evil characters would no longer be allowed. This doesn't have anything to do with thinking anyone of being immature, it's just been a drag for all of us, DMs and players alike, so we stopped it.
This is also a rule that is frequently found on RP servers, for exaclty that reason.
-No passing level 5 without applications, applications everywhere! (We don't trust you)
Actually, it's level 4. There are a lot of servers with varrying amounts of applications and restrictions. The level cap system is not there because we don't trust you, it's just to allow us DMs to observe if people play their characters. There are servers out there that don't allow you to level past a certain level if you don#t have at least half of your experience through roleplay XP.
And applications are only necessary for playing divine classes like paladins and clerics.
I can't comment on your experience with the DM, since I wasn't there. I'm sorry if that actually offended you. However, knowing the DM in question, I have my sincerest doubts that there was any bad intention behind it.
If you do not like the rules, I can understand that, and wish you all the best in finding another server that suits your needs better than The Way Inn.
#28
Posté 08 juin 2011 - 12:39
Eradrain
-
- Members
- 224 messages
I really don't mean to start a fight, or an argument, so please don't take it that way. But what do all those restrictions (No OOC running/leveling without an app every 4 levels/visiting the same dungeon twice in a day) really do to help your server?
I've played (and been on the staff of) on a number of roleplaying PWs with extremely relaxed policies where they had any at all, and the quality of the roleplay was never in any way diminished by the fact that the players weren't constantly being monitored for any threat of enjoying the mechanical side of the game as well. In fact, I'd say that treating your roleplayers as adults and not micromanaging how much they grind or whether they run or walk when no other players are around, nearly always brings about a better atmosphere than the reverse.
People often seem to think that you cannot simultaneously enjoy RP, and the more video-game-y parts of NWN, that liking the latter somehow makes you a worse roleplayer. This is fundamentally untrue, and policies as harsh as the ones you describe might well scare away extremely talented roleplayers who don't like to be treated that way and subject to rules that, at least to me, seem almost arbitrarily stifling.
I respect that servers have different ways of doing things, but I genuinely don't understand the ones that take this hard-line "You're here to RP and ignore the fact that this is NWN rather than tabletop P&P as hard as you can!" stance. Help me understand it, please.
I've played (and been on the staff of) on a number of roleplaying PWs with extremely relaxed policies where they had any at all, and the quality of the roleplay was never in any way diminished by the fact that the players weren't constantly being monitored for any threat of enjoying the mechanical side of the game as well. In fact, I'd say that treating your roleplayers as adults and not micromanaging how much they grind or whether they run or walk when no other players are around, nearly always brings about a better atmosphere than the reverse.
People often seem to think that you cannot simultaneously enjoy RP, and the more video-game-y parts of NWN, that liking the latter somehow makes you a worse roleplayer. This is fundamentally untrue, and policies as harsh as the ones you describe might well scare away extremely talented roleplayers who don't like to be treated that way and subject to rules that, at least to me, seem almost arbitrarily stifling.
I respect that servers have different ways of doing things, but I genuinely don't understand the ones that take this hard-line "You're here to RP and ignore the fact that this is NWN rather than tabletop P&P as hard as you can!" stance. Help me understand it, please.
Modifié par Eradrain, 08 juin 2011 - 01:13 .
#29
Posté 08 juin 2011 - 05:42
Arinoch
-
- Members
- 23 messages
As a player of TWI, and someone who writes policy for a living, I'll speak to a few things (though have a cold so my brain may be all over the place. >.> Sorry in advance.) To the running and the same dungeon per day issues, I'd maybe agree that it's not really needed, but that's based on the idea of constant monitoring. In reality, how much is it being watched? I have no idea. It's not something I dwell on. That said, part of the reason it doesn't harm anything is because there are caps in place.
The level caps are on a different level than the other things mentioned. Though certainly debateable from a purely mechanical point of view, as has been said, there's a couple of reasons I can think of (and the DMs can add or refute as needed, but this is my opinion):
1) To ensure that the level of a character is sufficient with their role in the social network of the PW's world. That is to say that if everyone were level 20 it's a bit odd since a level 20, in D&D terms, is supposed to be ridiculously powerful.
2) To ensure, in part, that RP is balanced with leveling. A character's personal development should go right along with their physical prowess, which is unfortunately directly associated with leveling. The natural progression of time is simply a necessity to ensure some kind of realistic character development. Avoiding the "I was evil yesterday, but I met a nice lady who changed me, so I'm good now" kind of thing, which is not the best example, but eh.
3) I was recently told, and am now paraphrasing so I may be off, that probably 95% of TWI's players are above the age of 20. Aside from having great university schedules that give loads of free time, most people are busy with RL concerns at varying points. Caps are in place, I'm sure in part, to ensure that the person who has days of free time per week don't get insanely past their friends who have hours per week.
I know that sounds like a penalty for the characters who have tons of play time, but remember that creatures scale on this server as well. Let's say me and my buddy start at the same time. Our characters are great friends. He has all the time in the world to play, and I have four hours a week. A month later he's sitting at level 15 and I'm at level 2. I can't go out with him because I'll get destroyed by the much higher-than-me averaged creatures that spawn. He'll be bored because of the much lower-than-him-averaged creatures that spawn, and we'll both get only 1 exp per kill.
Right now I have a character that's level 11, and the max server cap is 12. That character's really the only one I play, which is the reason he's so high, but I'll also note that he's not yet at 12, and I've been playing him since the end of the beta. I don't know how much I can talk about people with well-played multiple characters who more time to play than I do, and whether or not they're satisfied with the caps, but I've never had an issue with them.
Being level 11 now, even with most of my friends' high level characters between level 7-10, actual challenge for me isn't very easy to find unless we stumble onto a dungeon with a naturally high level spawn (had a great incident of that the other night, btw). Despite that, I've still been much more strategically challenged at every character level because of the scaling system on TWI than I ever was throughout my previous server from level 1-21, and I enjoy that immensely. Few things are a guaranteed win, despite my level; they're just not quite as terrifying as if I were on the low end of the average. Don't get the idea that because TWI has plenty of rules based around RP that there's no combat.
Anyway, I realize the last point's a bit of a stretch because if noone had caps there would be a greater span of levels and you'd probably always have someone near you, but in tandem with the other two points it's valid. The slow levels, scaling spawns, and level caps all go towards adding to the feeling of growth and development for my character in this world. I had an epic character on a server I played on for three years that only allowed epic characters with DM nomination - I still got bored when I maxed out, even though I loved the server, the players, and my character. Nothing was challenging anymore. I chose to play on this server because of the interesting, and different ruleset and features. To each their own.
Are the caps subjective to DM standards? Yes. Do they at least guarantee some manner of acknowledgement from those DMs? Yes. It's certainly reflective of P&P, or what I imagine P&P is like, for sure, but I don't consider that a bad thing. Different, perhaps, but not a bad thing. On this server, the level caps are in place for various reasons as defined by the DMs. If I were playing a tabletop game, the DM would equally be in charge of the game systems. If I didn't like the DM, I wouldn't be playing with them. This is the DM's world, after all, and they designed it to their own vision. If there are players who are satisifed playing with these restrictions, like me, then more power to them.
I think treating people like adults goes both ways - it's also about saying "here's my server, and here are the rules. This is our vision. If you don't like it, there are many other servers out there with different rulesets, level limits, features, settings, etc. that you are free to go try. And I hope you find what you're looking for."
As Eradrain says, yes, some talented RPers who want total freedom could be scared away. But odds are so will less talented RPers who would otherwise focus on hack and slash and powerleveling hybrid RDD/Monks. So instead of having to police such things, instead there are rules in place to prevent them from occurring at all. Meh. No world is ever going to be built that pleases everyone. I find the concept of WoW incredibly boring, for example, but last I heard it was doing pretty well. TWI has what I'm looking for, and I'm happy to be here.
The level caps are on a different level than the other things mentioned. Though certainly debateable from a purely mechanical point of view, as has been said, there's a couple of reasons I can think of (and the DMs can add or refute as needed, but this is my opinion):
1) To ensure that the level of a character is sufficient with their role in the social network of the PW's world. That is to say that if everyone were level 20 it's a bit odd since a level 20, in D&D terms, is supposed to be ridiculously powerful.
2) To ensure, in part, that RP is balanced with leveling. A character's personal development should go right along with their physical prowess, which is unfortunately directly associated with leveling. The natural progression of time is simply a necessity to ensure some kind of realistic character development. Avoiding the "I was evil yesterday, but I met a nice lady who changed me, so I'm good now" kind of thing, which is not the best example, but eh.
3) I was recently told, and am now paraphrasing so I may be off, that probably 95% of TWI's players are above the age of 20. Aside from having great university schedules that give loads of free time, most people are busy with RL concerns at varying points. Caps are in place, I'm sure in part, to ensure that the person who has days of free time per week don't get insanely past their friends who have hours per week.
I know that sounds like a penalty for the characters who have tons of play time, but remember that creatures scale on this server as well. Let's say me and my buddy start at the same time. Our characters are great friends. He has all the time in the world to play, and I have four hours a week. A month later he's sitting at level 15 and I'm at level 2. I can't go out with him because I'll get destroyed by the much higher-than-me averaged creatures that spawn. He'll be bored because of the much lower-than-him-averaged creatures that spawn, and we'll both get only 1 exp per kill.
Right now I have a character that's level 11, and the max server cap is 12. That character's really the only one I play, which is the reason he's so high, but I'll also note that he's not yet at 12, and I've been playing him since the end of the beta. I don't know how much I can talk about people with well-played multiple characters who more time to play than I do, and whether or not they're satisfied with the caps, but I've never had an issue with them.
Being level 11 now, even with most of my friends' high level characters between level 7-10, actual challenge for me isn't very easy to find unless we stumble onto a dungeon with a naturally high level spawn (had a great incident of that the other night, btw). Despite that, I've still been much more strategically challenged at every character level because of the scaling system on TWI than I ever was throughout my previous server from level 1-21, and I enjoy that immensely. Few things are a guaranteed win, despite my level; they're just not quite as terrifying as if I were on the low end of the average. Don't get the idea that because TWI has plenty of rules based around RP that there's no combat.
Anyway, I realize the last point's a bit of a stretch because if noone had caps there would be a greater span of levels and you'd probably always have someone near you, but in tandem with the other two points it's valid. The slow levels, scaling spawns, and level caps all go towards adding to the feeling of growth and development for my character in this world. I had an epic character on a server I played on for three years that only allowed epic characters with DM nomination - I still got bored when I maxed out, even though I loved the server, the players, and my character. Nothing was challenging anymore. I chose to play on this server because of the interesting, and different ruleset and features. To each their own.
Are the caps subjective to DM standards? Yes. Do they at least guarantee some manner of acknowledgement from those DMs? Yes. It's certainly reflective of P&P, or what I imagine P&P is like, for sure, but I don't consider that a bad thing. Different, perhaps, but not a bad thing. On this server, the level caps are in place for various reasons as defined by the DMs. If I were playing a tabletop game, the DM would equally be in charge of the game systems. If I didn't like the DM, I wouldn't be playing with them. This is the DM's world, after all, and they designed it to their own vision. If there are players who are satisifed playing with these restrictions, like me, then more power to them.
I think treating people like adults goes both ways - it's also about saying "here's my server, and here are the rules. This is our vision. If you don't like it, there are many other servers out there with different rulesets, level limits, features, settings, etc. that you are free to go try. And I hope you find what you're looking for."
As Eradrain says, yes, some talented RPers who want total freedom could be scared away. But odds are so will less talented RPers who would otherwise focus on hack and slash and powerleveling hybrid RDD/Monks. So instead of having to police such things, instead there are rules in place to prevent them from occurring at all. Meh. No world is ever going to be built that pleases everyone. I find the concept of WoW incredibly boring, for example, but last I heard it was doing pretty well. TWI has what I'm looking for, and I'm happy to be here.
