87 réponses à ce sujet

[Kranaos]

I think I remember a wise old man from the east by the name of Confucius once said "Beauty is in everything, just not everyone sees it."

[Grommash94]

I don't see why BioWare can't make the game THEY want. I understand some of the reactions on this forum, really I do, but why should they have to cater to us? To you? Its what they want to do. No matter what we say on these forums, they will most likely continue to do it.



Speak with your wallet instead. Don't buy it if you truly do no like it. But if it turns out that DA2 outsells DA, and just becomes a better game, then maybe you have to either accept where BioWare is going, or abandon them.



It just comes down to that.

[Leonia]

scyphozoa wrote...

I think people suffer from an illusion of permanence. This is basically the most common and predictable reaction to any sequel. It happened with Mass Effect, its happens with every bit of film, television, literature, games and more. Any time you have a fan base of a franchise that gets a sequel or another installment, it is always a painful issue for some fans to accept that the sequel is not just a reskin of the original product they fell in love with.

As human beings, please, stop being so predictable. Let musicians make the music they want. Let film directors make the films they want. And let Bioware make the games they want. Your input is valid, but the slogan "if its not broke don't fix it" doesn't apply to art. Art always has to grow and evolve and video games are art.

If you want the 80 hour experience of DAO, its not going anywhere, but please stop begging for a reskin of the same experience.

Quoting before it disappeard in the thread. I totally agree with this.

I've said it before in another thread and I'll say it again, if people want to continue the story of their Origin characters, they should engage in fandom and start writing fanfiction, drawing fanart, and toying with the Dragon Age Toolset, which, if I recall, was given to us fans freely for this exact purpose.  Bioware is the creator here, not us. If you want things to suit you, then you need to create it yourself or at least use the tools Bioware has provided.

Anyway, it's their sequel, they can do whatever they want with it. I personally am looking forward to seeing what they come up with. Too much of our books, art, TV shows, games, etc. are turning into the same old, same old lately and it's so refreshing to see a company with some stones around here trying to do something different. It's natural for fans to fear change, it's natural to get upset when a sequel doesn't go your way, but seeing as the fans are NOT the creators of Dragon Age, there's very little we can do except offer a little bit of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Nevermind the amount of fans that don't even post on these forums or voice their opinions (of which are the MAJORITY of the fan base here).

To scyphozoa:

You, sir, are a breath of fresh air, I like you!

Modifié par leonia42, 18 juillet 2010 - 09:13 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

leonia42 wrote...
Quoting before it disappeard in the thread. I totally agree with this.

I've said it before in another thread and I'll say it again, if people want to continue the story of their Origin characters, they should engage in fandom and start writing fanfiction, drawing fanart, and toying with the Dragon Age Toolset, which, if I recall, was given to us fans freely for this exact purpose.  Bioware is the creator here, not us. If you want things to suit you, then you need to create it yourself or at least use the tools Bioware has provided.

Anyway, it's their sequel, they can do whatever they want with it. I personally am looking forward to seeing what they come up with. Too much of our books, art, TV shows, games, etc. are turning into the same old, same old lately and it's so refreshing to see a company with some stones around here trying to do something different. It's natural for fans to fear change, it's natural to get upset when a sequel doesn't go your way, but seeing as the fans are NOT the creators of Dragon Age, there's very little we can do except offer a little bit of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Nevermind the amount of fans that don't even post on these forums or voice their opinions (of which are the MAJORITY of the fan base here).

To scyphozoa:

You, sir, are a breath of fresh air, I like you!

Agreed.
We have Mass Effect triology if we want a series that focus the same character.
We have EA Sports games if we want to see most things kept the same in a sequel.

If they want change, let them.

Modifié par Hulk Hsieh, 18 juillet 2010 - 09:18 .

[Dermain]

bjdbwea wrote...

Very much PR, very little content. BioWare was different once.

Yes, well then Bioware started these forums and figured they would have to deal with even more ****ing if they actually talked about the content of the game.

[Terror_K]

I'd actually say too many IPs are being retconned, redone and reimagined rather than there are too many things turning into the "same old, same old" lately. If anything there's not enough things that actually stick to their roots. And if anything is becoming generic and the same, it's that all these reimagined things are always done in that same mainstream gritty, serious, and overdramatic manner because that's the popular thing these days.



My main problem is the change of art direction because now it doesn't even seem like the same IP to me any more. When you change the way something looks and feels to the point it no longer looks and feels like the original product then it kind of loses it identity. You don't make a new Star Wars movie and suddenly have Rodian's as massive lizard-people with jagged teeth or turn Wookie's into gorilla's. Consistency and familiarity define a product, and why should we care about the Dragon Age universe when the people making it no longer seem to and just change the way it looks because a few people niggled about it looking too much like PJ's LotR films.



My second biggest gripe is the slimming back and cutting down and this still supposedly being a full on sequel to the original game. If it were a spin-off I wouldn't have as many problems, but it's not. Again, a sequel to a game should have all the features of the one that preceded it and possibly more... not be a cut back and watered down product that severely limits you.

[Grommash94]

Terror_K wrote...

I'd actually say too many IPs are being retconned, redone and reimagined rather than there are too many things turning into the "same old, same old" lately. If anything there's not enough things that actually stick to their roots. And if anything is becoming generic and the same, it's that all these reimagined things are always done in that same mainstream gritty, serious, and overdramatic manner because that's the popular thing these days.

My main problem is the change of art direction because now it doesn't even seem like the same IP to me any more. When you change the way something looks and feels to the point it no longer looks and feels like the original product then it kind of loses it identity. You don't make a new Star Wars movie and suddenly have Rodian's as massive lizard-people with jagged teeth or turn Wookie's into gorilla's. Consistency and familiarity define a product, and why should we care about the Dragon Age universe when the people making it no longer seem to and just change the way it looks because a few people niggled about it looking too much like PJ's LotR films.

My second biggest gripe is the slimming back and cutting down and this still supposedly being a full on sequel to the original game. If it were a spin-off I wouldn't have as many problems, but it's not. Again, a sequel to a game should have all the features of the one that preceded it and possibly more... not be a cut back and watered down product that severely limits you.

Not necessarily.

[Leonia]

They changed art direction all the time in console RPGs like Final Fantasy and Legend of Zelda, doesn't take away from the feel of those franchises though. I know, how dare I compare console games to PC games, especially non-Bioware ones but, well, there are great examples of art direction changes that didn't have a negative impact on a game series.

[MerinTB]

scyphozoa wrote...

I think people suffer from an illusion of permanence. This is basically the most common and predictable reaction to any sequel. It happened with Mass Effect, its happens with every bit of film, television, literature, games and more. Any time you have a fan base of a franchise that gets a sequel or another installment, it is always a painful issue for some fans to accept that the sequel is not just a reskin of the original product they fell in love with.

As human beings, please, stop being so predictable. Let musicians make the music they want. Let film directors make the films they want. And let Bioware make the games they want. Your input is valid, but the slogan "if its not broke don't fix it" doesn't apply to art. Art always has to grow and evolve and video games are art.

If you want the 80 hour experience of DAO, its not going anywhere, but please stop begging for a reskin of the same experience.

But as gamers we MOST OFTEN GET THIS.

I keep going back to the same well, but SSI's Gold Box engine made over a dozen games - minor improvements on graphics and features as they went forward, but the engine worked, people liked it, and they played happily.
The Infinity Engine was used for about a half-dozen games, right?  While it is easy to point out design differences between PST, Icewind Dale and BG2, they used the same game rules, same graphics, same play mechanics (with minor improvements all along the way.)
Halo came back 3 times.  X-Men Legends lasted all the way to Marvel Ultimat Alliance 2 which, arguably had drifted so much that it wasn't nearly as successful at that point.
And, again, Bethesda.  Arena morphed into the successful formula of Daggerfall.  They stumbled "while being creative" with Battlespire and Redguard.  They came home with Morrowind and moved on to greater success with Oblivion, even bringing an old and abandoned franchise, Fallout, into the mould of the Elder Scrolls gaming system successfully.

When something works, especially for a fan base - when your bread-and-butter customers are your loyal customers who like your company because they like the style of games you do (I guarantee you 90 % of loyal fans of game companies don't like the "creativity" nor "ability to do new things" of game companies but instead like qualities that are PREDICTABLE), and when your product sells VERY WELL, your best bet for continued sales and for your fans to be happy is to continue with WHAT WORKED AND WHAT THEY LIKED.  It's fine to tweak things, try things, drop things that weren't working or that no one cares about.  But some things are key for enjoying certain kinds of games, and to remove those to "give it a shot of adrenalin" or simply because "you can't rest on nostalgia" for the game's predecessor that was hugely successful and just came out under a year ago... it's dumb.

Video games, while they may have art and artists working on them, are NOT art.  They are products made for certain consumer base - and that base knows what it likes and wants.  Making video games is NOT where you go to be avant-garde.
While I'm not advocating a game company remain stagnant and only keep doing the same thing (nice strawman with the reskinning comment, btw), I do think that you don't move the steering wheel to the back for the car and design the wheel base so the car is as wide as 4 normal cars "just because you are being creative" as the car won't appeal to buyers and won't work well on the road with other normal cars.

[WilliamShatner]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I apologies if that offended you.
Please don't make arguments out of thin air though, I didn't dispute his actual response to the questions. Game is Mass Effect.

That's a pretty big assumption. "Not Quite" does not mean "Is".

It's valid ssumption consdering he gave not one reason why DA2 isn't going the ME route.

[WilliamShatner]

Grommash94 wrote...

I don't see why BioWare can't make the game THEY want. I understand some of the reactions on this forum, really I do, but why should they have to cater to us? To you? Its what they want to do. No matter what we say on these forums, they will most likely continue to do it.

Speak with your wallet instead. Don't buy it if you truly do no like it. But if it turns out that DA2 outsells DA, and just becomes a better game, then maybe you have to either accept where BioWare is going, or abandon them.

It just comes down to that.

forum: an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.

If we don't discuss the games here, what's the point of having these forums anyway?

Modifié par WilliamShatner, 18 juillet 2010 - 07:32 .

[Addai]

Terror_K wrote...

I'd actually say too many IPs are being retconned, redone and reimagined rather than there are too many things turning into the "same old, same old" lately. If anything there's not enough things that actually stick to their roots. And if anything is becoming generic and the same, it's that all these reimagined things are always done in that same mainstream gritty, serious, and overdramatic manner because that's the popular thing these days.

Exactly.  In one breath they're saying "this is where games are going" and in another "we want to be new and fresh."  Sooo.... innovating by conforming to the trend.  Gotcha.

[MerinTB]

Addai67 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...
I'd actually say too many IPs are being retconned, redone and reimagined rather than there are too many things turning into the "same old, same old" lately. If anything there's not enough things that actually stick to their roots. And if anything is becoming generic and the same, it's that all these reimagined things are always done in that same mainstream gritty, serious, and overdramatic manner because that's the popular thing these days.

Exactly.  In one breath they're saying "this is where games are going" and in another "we want to be new and fresh."  Sooo.... innovating by conforming to the trend.  Gotcha.

This made me smile.

It was a sad smile, a melancholy smile.

But smile I did.