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[Drasanil]

Ok this isn’t an anti-DA2 rant or anything, although I’ll admit off the bat that I was rather unhappy we’d be forced to play Hawke instead of a character of our own choosing, but the fact that our Warden’s decisions impact the world of DA2 and all the recent talk of learning more about Arlathan and the Thedas’ ancient history has perked up my spirits a bit with regards to the game.
 
However, I do have one concern with all the talk recently that has sprang up on the forum about Arlathan and meeting elves that survived it’s fall and/or their descendants it got me to thinking. While it has the potential to be pretty awesome, it could just as easily be a wasted opportunity. It seems to me that something like that should be more in line with an elf character’s story/origin/whatever and that the significance of Arlathan’s big reveal would in a sense be wasted on a human PC such as Hawke, it just wouldn’t have the same impact as it would have on an elf PC.
 
Hopefully if Bioware decides to do something with Arlathan in this game we’ll receive a suitably awesome companion that reinforces the historic importance/awesomeness of  such an event , i.e. one that a good deal of players aren't tempted to kill out of hand like Zevran or especially Velanna.
 
My personal preference on the subject would be to leave Arlathan alone for now and in the next game or maybe expansion have an origin or pc that comes from Arlathan or a group of its survivors, where we’d get to learn the history on more of a firsthand basis and perhaps play a role in the city’s return to being a major player on the world stage of Thedas.
 
 
So, what does the fan-community (and the good Bioware folk, if they care to grace this thread with their presence) think of all this Arlathan talk and such that has recently cropped up on the forums?

Modifié par Drasanil, 17 juillet 2010 - 10:01 .

[Naughty Bear]

What is this Arthalan you speak of Human?

[iTomes]

i dont think well dicover arlathan yet. its in the center of a TOTALLY TAINTED land. david gaider said so in another thread. i cant imagine going in there and telling the darkspawn "hello were scientists" r something...

[errant_knight]

I tend to agree with you. Imagine the importance of Arlathan to a Dailish Warden, or to a city elf! It would depend on who the new companions are, of course. Maybe some will be elven. I'm really hoping that there will be companions that I find more immediately identifiable than the PC. I just don't find a 'rise to power' all that intrinsically interesting.

[errant_knight]

iTomes wrote...

i dont think well dicover arlathan yet. its in the center of a TOTALLY TAINTED land. david gaider said so in another thread. i cant imagine going in there and telling the darkspawn "hello were scientists" r something...

Lol! 'We just want to do some interviews, take some soil samples... So, how how much attachment do you feel to your broodmother? Do tell....'

[Drasanil]

iTomes wrote...

i dont think well dicover arlathan yet. its in the center of a TOTALLY TAINTED land. david gaider said so in another thread. i cant imagine going in there and telling the darkspawn "hello were scientists" r something...

I thought he said the Silent Plains were permanently tainted but that it had nothing to do with Arlathan but was the site of the final battle during the first Blight where Dumat was slain.

[Risax]

I think in a Dragon Age sequel you will play a pre-detirmend character (like Hawke but Elven), who will help his people by finding some acient Elven artifact, or an entrance to Arlathen, or an Elven artifact that will get you to Arlathen. =P

[iTomes]

"I thought he said the Silent Plains were permanently tainted but that it had nothing to do with Arlathan but was the site of the final battle during the first Blight where Dumat was slain."



it hasn't got anything to do with arlathan indeed, but its still tainted. thats the proplem.

[AmstradHero]

As far as I know, Arlathan was still conjecture at this point. Sure we've got tidbits hinting in that direction, but BioWare could be giving us a massive curveball... *evil grin*

But let's assume Arlathan is involved, and address your argument that it is wasted on a human protagonist.  I'm afraid I have to say I disagree wholeheartedly. Think of the impact a human can have visiting this ancient elven city, destroyed by his kind. Imagine the reactions of its inhabitants when they finally see a human after all these years. I can't imagine they're going to be pleased about it.  Then imagine the effects of a human siding with the elves and their ancient city, both of which were crushed brutally from existence so long ago by the Imperium.

If we're talking about Hawke becoming the most important hero of Thedas... then he has to do something big.

[ShadowNemisi]

If Origins taught us anything, it's that (outside the human noble origin) it isn't necessarily the person you would expect that ends up saving the people of Ferelden by defeating a Blight before truly begun.



Doing something "great" doesn't mean the character has to fit some silly archetype (in this case, an acceptable "elven savior"). I mean, they can. But it's more important that it's a good story than it being the hero you expect to accomplish a certain goal.

[Drasanil]

AmstradHero wrote...
As far as I know, Arlathan was still conjecture at this point. Sure we've got tidbits hinting in that direction, but BioWare could be giving us a massive curveball... *evil grin*

That is quite possible as Arlathan is on the other side of Antiva and Bioware can be devious buggers when they want too.

But let's assume Arlathan is involved, and address your argument that it is wasted on a human protagonist.  I'm afraid I have to say I disagree wholeheartedly. Think of the impact a human can have visiting this ancient elven city, destroyed by his kind. Imagine the reactions of its inhabitants when they finally see a human after all these years. I can't imagine they're going to be pleased about it.  Then imagine the effects of a human siding with the elves and their ancient city, both of which were crushed brutally from existence so long ago by the Imperium.

It's true, I'd just feel rather cheated having some random human show up, kick down the door and play the Big Damn Hero, especially after all the hype and significance that was built up for Arlathan and the past in the Dalish origin and such.

If we're talking about Hawke becoming the most important hero of Thedas... then he has to do something big.

Indeed, since he's not slaying some aicent evil or stopping a blight, you really do have to wonder what makes him so important and necessary to the history of Thedas, apart for the whole rag to riches shtick.

ShadowNemisi wrote...

Doing something "great" doesn't mean the character has to fit some silly archetype (in this case, an acceptable "elven savior"). I mean, they can. But it's more important that it's a good story than it being the hero you expect to accomplish a certain goal.

See my previous Big Damn Hero comment.

Also this is just as a matter of personnal preference, but if Bioware were to do something with Arlathan I'd prefer the protoganist in question be an elf from Arlathan as opposed to a city or dalish elf, that way we'd get more of a first hand feel of what things are like and the survivors' attitudes to the rest of the world and other elves.

[Bryy_Miller]

errant_knight wrote...

iTomes wrote...

i dont think well dicover arlathan yet. its in the center of a TOTALLY TAINTED land. david gaider said so in another thread. i cant imagine going in there and telling the darkspawn "hello were scientists" r something...

Lol! 'We just want to do some interviews, take some soil samples... So, how how much attachment do you feel to your broodmother? Do tell....'

That's how all those horror films start!

[SDNcN]

Drasanil wrote...

Indeed, since he's not slaying some aicent evil or stopping a blight, you really do have to wonder what makes him so important and necessary to the history of Thedas, apart for the whole rag to riches shtick.

Well all Franz Ferdinand did was get shot and he ended up as one of the most important people in our history. My guess is that Hawke's importance isn't so much tied to what he or she actually did, but what happens after as a result. 

This is from the game informer article, "In the cutscene, we learn that the world stands on the brink of war, and the Seeker believes that understanding Hawke's actions can help explain and resolve the volatile situation."

So Hawke's adventure(s) may be the cause of hostility that could possibly lead to unknown forces going to war.

[Altima Darkspells]

According to the GI, or whatever, the story of Hawke is being told to a female human Seeker who seems to think that Hawke's adventures could be used to prevent a war.



Seems to me that she would represent the Imperial Chantry, since her armor's mostly black, we've never heard of the Seeker sect from the Chantry, and Kirkwall is under templar rule.



So the war seems to be another showdown where the Chantry tries to burn Minrathous to the ground.



On a side note, there's two broad outcomes--Hawke's story always stops the war, regardless of what she does, or there's options that would prevent it or cause it. In the former's case, that'd be kinda weak. In the latter case, however, that would have some interesting consequences for future DA products. This would mean that the next games would either be placed within the ten years of Hawke, or the next installment will take place so far into the future that the war would merely be a reference.

[Morroian]

iTomes wrote...

i dont think well dicover arlathan yet. its in the center of a TOTALLY TAINTED land. david gaider said so in another thread.

Which thread?

[SDNcN]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

According to the GI, or whatever, the story of Hawke is being told to a female human Seeker who seems to think that Hawke's adventures could be used to prevent a war.

Seems to me that she would represent the Imperial Chantry, since her armor's mostly black, we've never heard of the Seeker sect from the Chantry, and Kirkwall is under templar rule.

The article says in the same section that the Seekers are apart of Chantry as a form of Templar 'Internal Affairs'.

Modifié par SDNcN, 17 juillet 2010 - 11:20 .

[Grommash94]

Morroian wrote...

iTomes wrote...

i dont think well dicover arlathan yet. its in the center of a TOTALLY TAINTED land. david gaider said so in another thread.

Which thread?

In the Black City/Arlathan one:http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/3149756

He just says that it hasn't got anything to do with the Silent Plains, which are tainted. Nothing about Arlathan being tainted.

[Morroian]

Grommash94 wrote...
In the Black City/Arlathan
one:http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/3149756

He
just says that it hasn't got anything to do with the Silent Plains,
which are tainted. Nothing about Arlathan being tainted.

In
that case itomes is completely wrong in implying that Gaider confirmed it was in the Silent Plains. He said nothing of the sort and the most likely spot for the Arlathan site is the Arlathan Forest, go figure.

[AmstradHero]

Drasanil wrote...
I'd just feel rather cheated having some random human show up, kick down the door and play the Big Damn Hero, especially after all the hype and significance that was built up for Arlathan and the past in the Dalish origin and such.

Also this is just as a matter of personnal preference, but if Bioware were to do something with Arlathan I'd prefer the protoganist in question be an elf from Arlathan as opposed to a city or dalish elf, that way we'd get more of a first hand feel of what things are like and the survivors' attitudes to the rest of the world and other elves.

I do see the appeal of having a hero rise from Arlathan... but I would actually imagine you get get less of the survivors' attitudes that way. I know this seems counterintuitive, but let me explain.

Firstly, unless Arlathan magically appears from... well, wherever it is now... the story is likely to be divided into "in Arlathan" and "not in Arlathan" sections. Getting to Arlathan isn't going to be an easy task, otherwise people would have found it before Hawke.

Now, because Arlathan has been separate from the rest of Thedas for so long, their knowledge and understanding of the rest of Thedas is going to be very limited and very much out of date. The most poignant thing is going to be that they're going to bear a huge grudge and hatred towards those that destroyed them and isolated them - they don't know the full extent of the racism towards elves and how their people are now shortlived. They haven't seen the elves truly fall from what they knew them as on the surface.  Yet they're still going to bear hatred towards those that destroyed them, just like Kal-Sharok bears ill-will towards Orzammar for their abandonment.

So, as an elf in Arlathan, you're going to know little about the humans except for the hatred that you and your people bear towards them as a result of the destruction of the city long ago.  That can be reinforced to some degree by the NPCs during the "in-Arlathan" stage of the game, but as soon as you leave Arlathan, that capacity is lost entirely unless you have one or more "story-teller" companions.  You cannot have the player's character provide the exposition, because
the player has to have choice in their dialogue.  So you're left with a party member providing that "insight", which is really bad, as that person ends up being a dull exposition-delivery character - see Legolas in the Lord of the Rings movies. Plus the player can ditch them and miss out on that anyway - unless you're advocating a forced NPC companion, which is also undesirable.

Additionally, an elf from Arlathan would be completely socially bereft when you arrive into "the real world". Players
(typically) don't like to roleplay an idiot, and that would happen to a degree if we were playing an elf from Arlathan. It'd be like you playing a clueless "Morrigan-in-the-city" character, who has very little understanding of the world or how to interact with people. Arguably, designers could potentially "ignore" this and have the player's character be a very quick learner... "So I give you gold coins and you give me items.. rightio!" and "Alienage? Enclosure for elves in cities? Okay, got it."... "So give me a run down on, let's see... darkspawn, blights, Grey Wardens, The Chantry, The Maker, templars, the countries..." You get the picture.

On the other hand, if you introduce a human character into Arlathan, you get the whole nine yards. You're suddenly invading their homeland, just like your kind did years before. Is it not enough that you destroyed their homeland once, threaten to shorten the lifespans of all their kind, killed many of their people and sent Arlathan to... the Maker knows where? Now, nearly 2000 years later, a human comes back to their city once again to bring destruction once again... I imagine that the bile and hatred that will be directed at that human, no matter how good or noble they might be, is going to be a stream of vile anger and vitriol. They may not confide their secrets to the human, but they're definitely going to display their opinions and emotions towards him/her.

As for the "Big Damn Hero" concept, you're going to get that regardless of whether you're playing a human or an elf. That's the whole point of an RPG, that you do become the Big Damn Hero. Your background doesn't really matter if you're doing exactly the same thing.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 18 juillet 2010 - 06:28 .

[Tfatan7272]

arlathan was destroyed by the tevinter mages and the elves lost their immortality afterwards there would be no elves alive from arlathan

[highcastle]

Tfatan7272 wrote...

arlathan was destroyed by the tevinter mages and the elves lost their immortality afterwards there would be no elves alive from arlathan

Possibly. But the Arl Foreshadow and a few other sources hint of survivors. Also Arlathan wasn't destroyed so much as it was sunk into the ground (think Atlantis). So if elves survived the sinking, isolated from humans, there's no saying they wouldn't retain their immortality.