38 réponses à ce sujet

[ChewyGumball]

There really is no reason to keep your stuff "private". All it does is promote an atmosphere of elitism which is damaging to the community.

[i4gotmyid]

Oh dear. I didn't mean for anything harmful to come out of this conversation.



I just thought it would be nice to encrypt my files because it took me a long time to write a script. But someone already gave me the solution around it.

[Sunjammer]

On the contrary, Social's Terms of Service alone are a very good reason:

... you also grant all other users of the relevant EA Service the right to use, copy, modify, display, perform, create derivative works from, and otherwise communicate and distribute your contributed Content on or through the relevant EA Service without further notice, attribution or compensation to you.

Under these terms there is absolutely no protection for the original authors of any mod/module uploaded to Social. I would be willing to bet that most people are blissfully unaware of this.

Modifié par Sunjammer, 19 juillet 2010 - 07:11 .

[nezroy]

When you create a new ERF in the toolset (or using ErfEditor.exe), you can right-click and select properties, and change the ERF format to v2.2 which supports encryption. No clue what options you'd want to select from there or if the game can even decrypt it at that point, but fun to play with.

[Petehog]

Sunjammer wrote...

On the contrary, Social's Terms of Service alone are a very good reason:

... you also grant all other users of the relevant EA Service the right to use, copy, modify, display, perform, create derivative works from, and otherwise communicate and distribute your contributed Content on or through the relevant EA Service without further notice, attribution or compensation to you.

Under these terms there is absolutely no protection for the original authors of any mod/module uploaded to Social. I would be willing to bet that most people are blissfully unaware of this.

I think they are aware. But if a modder has an option to protect his work, he shouldn't be railed for choosing the option to do it.

Bioware placed methods for modders to protect thier mods..for a reason. It isn't there just by accident.

As an example, a .mor file cannot be converted to a .mrh file because the .mrh file is the source.

It's no accident. 

This protection was given to modders for those who wish to have thier source material protected. Some people are comfortable releasing source material while others are not. But at the end of the day..whether it is encrypted or not, the cook is still giving the meal for the masses for free. He shouldn't be placed on a pike for refusing to give out his recipe.

Modifié par Petehog, 19 juillet 2010 - 08:30 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Encryption is in the game for Bioware's DLC, not for modders. .mor cannot be converted to an .mrh because like most exported file formats, they generally don't work backwards. It's much like how if you have a high res image and resize it to a lower image and save it you cannot get the high res image back from the low res image file. Often, exported files only use the relevant information to work and the source files are often much larger.



I think the idea that you "need to protect your work" is the problem here. Protect it from what? Should Bioware protect their work from you? No one's going to "steal" your work and claim it as their own (and if they do, I, and many others will back you in any effort to get them to take it down and stop the charade) or god forbid implement your work into their own mods. (Hell I bet most people would be polite enough to ask permission before doing this)



I don't mean to imply that people should be forced to share their source files. (There's a difference between forcing someone to do something, and looking down on someone for not doing so.) However, I think it's selfish not to. It's selfish because any work you've done in this modding community is built off the work of others. You've read tutorials, you're using Bioware's tools, you've likely had questions and such answered by others. You've assimilated the knowledge of others but are unwilling to allow people to learn from what you've done, and that in my mind is the epitome of selfishness: taking without giving back.



If everyone has trust issues about others using their work, it creates a hostile atmosphere for the community. At the extreme, it means that people won't be willing to make their mods compatible and at the lightest it simply means that there's less resources for people to learn. This limits the growth of the community which I don't think anyone wants.

[Petehog]

I've had this discussion in the past.

But the truth is that a modder has the right to do what he wishes with what he wishes to give to the public.
He is doing this for free, with not a single cent to show for it. He is doing out of his own free time.

If a person gave you a box of chocolates for free everyday...
you don't go back on the person and demand the recipe and demand more chocolates..
He's doing this for free and he's giving out for free. He has the right to give it out any way he wishes.

Modifié par Petehog, 19 juillet 2010 - 09:21 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Petehog wrote...

I've had this discussion in the past.

But the truth is that a modder has the right to do what he wishes with what he wishes to give to the public.
He is doing this for free, with not a single cent to show for it. He is doing out of his own free time.

If a person gave you a box of chocolates for free everyday...
you don't go back on the person and demand the recipe and demand more chocolates..
He's doing this for free and he's giving out for free. He has the right to give it out any way he wishes.

You've yet to explain why having people know your "recipe" is such a big deal.  

[ladydesire]

Petehog wrote...

I've had this discussion in the past.

But the truth is that a modder has the right to do what he wishes with what he wishes to give to the public.
He is doing this for free, with not a single cent to show for it. He is doing out of his own free time.

While true, what good is encrypting your files going to do if someone with the ability to crack the encryption really wants to aquire them? Don't say it doesn't happen because it's the root complaint people have about Digital Rights Management (DRM).

[FergusM]

Petehog wrote...

If a person gave you a box of chocolates for free everyday...
you don't go back on the person and demand the recipe and demand more chocolates..
He's doing this for free and he's giving out for free. He has the right to give it out any way he wishes.

Not if you gave him the cocoa. It's give and take in a modding community.

[ladydesire]

i4gotmyid wrote...

Oh dear. I didn't mean for anything harmful to come out of this conversation.

I just thought it would be nice to encrypt my files because it took me a long time to write a script. But someone already gave me the solution around it.

Don't blame yourself for this discussion; it was bound to come up eventually.

[Arrtis]

If the Recipe comes with the chocolates normally.Is there a reason as to why you should decide to remove it?

I understand protection I just do not see the point.When someone downloads your file.....what are they gonna do with it that is gonna really hurt you?Besides taking credit.

I personally would only use mods for personal use.

I wonder where this community would be if no one gave out any files that you could change and did not make any new tutorials.No questions answered....

Well whatever I have the time to figure out the toolset.

The idea is to give more than you take to strengthen everyone else...

If no one downloads your file...you still spent time making your mod...that will not change....

Oh well...cya hopefully I can make my Darkspawn mod....when I get the toolset.

[Proleric]

Discussing this issue in terms of right and wrong is bound to lead to conflict, because there are no ethics that everyone agrees on, and never will be.

Far better to focus on practical actions and their likely consequences.

We can't stop people from taking action that's legal and within the site rules.

Equally, if we do things that are deeply offensive to others, there may be repercussions.

I don't hear anyone proposing any practical action against people who don't share source code, so, while greatly admiring the generosity of those who do share, I suggest that issue is closed.

If people figure out how to encrypt their work, or impose other restrictions (forbidding reuse, or requiring permission to do so), some of the builders who share will be very annoyed. Fact.

So in terms of practical outcomes, the builder has to decide whether the restriction achieves something more important than the co-operation and goodwill of the builder community.

[Petehog]

I agree. This discussion is a dead-end because it is an opinion against an opinion.

There are those who believe in the notion of sharing. And there are those who like to share but don't believe in giving out the source material.

It is an opinion against an opinion with neither side being "sold". And because the conversation is steering towards two sides trying to convince each other of who is wrong..it ends up leading nowhere.

Modifié par Petehog, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:49 .