21 réponses à ce sujet

[Dick Delaware]

The most glaring flaw that I think Origins suffered from was an excessive amount of filler combat. Places like the Korcari Wilds, The Fade, and Deep Roads felt like they were kinda there for padding. I think it's a design flaw because  it forces player to slog through encounters without having different options available to him / her throughout the quest. It is somewhat tedious in the Deep Roads because sections are quite long, and because regardless of whether you side with Bhelen or Harrowmont, you're still getting the exact same missions, only you're working for a different guy.

I thought Redcliffe did the best job of giving the player plenty of options on how to go about doing things, it had very little combat compared to the rest of the game, and I think it's no surprise that the Redcliffe and Sacred Ashes questlines are probably board favourites.

What my question to any devs is this: how does the amount of combat in DA2 compare to Origins? Is there more/less in terms of how much time it occupies in the game? Also, is it a possibility to avoid long sections of combat through decisions you make or dialogue options? There was a part in Redcliffe where you could do this.*

I liked the combat system, in fact it's one of the few real-time with pause games I've really enjoyed when it comes to combat, I just think that there was too damn much of it, and wish there were more options when it came to completing quests that didn't involve mowing down hordes of mooks.

**** SPOILER ****



You could avoid combat in The Fade and bypass the part with Connor's demon by killing Connor.




**** END SPOILER****

[andar91]

I was happy with it. I thought they balanced story and combat pretty well. I would have gotten bored if there was much less combat than there was.

[Johnson45]

The only bit which I thought was a slog was the fade, but I think most of the members here would agree with me. I never thought it was too much padding.



FFXIII, now thats what I call padding.

[Noobius_Maximo]

The Deep Roads is, IMO, the worst part of the game. It is so tedious, and only serves as filler combat. I would like different ways to go through quests, and not just through combat every thirty seconds.

[andar91]

Johnson45 wrote...

The only bit which I thought was a slog was the fade, but I think most of the members here would agree with me. I never thought it was too much padding.

FFXIII, now thats what I call padding.

In XIII's defense, most FF games are like that, but XII was nothing BUT padding.  Yeah, I agree with you, I thought they did a good job.

[TheMufflon]

I agree with the OP, I think there was way to much pointless combat in DA:O, but then again I was never a fan of combat in CRPGs. If I got my way, it would all be like the beach house mission in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 17 juillet 2010 - 11:13 .

[Helena Tylena]

How can you have a game that has blood as the central theme without blood flowing in ample quantities?



But yes, the Deep Roads and most Fade sections were too long to the point they became boring. Just about the entirety of Caradin's Cross could've been cut, in my opinion, the relevant side-quest bits moved to other Deep Road sections.

The Sloth Demon's section of the Fade is a very interesting concept, but too long the second time you play through it. Not aided by the fact you're alone pretty much the entire length of it.

[Stefanocrpg_rev91]

I agree with the op, Origins had too many battles, especially in the Deep Roads.

I would like to have less fights and if I can avoid a greater number of the combats using my character's abilities (persuasion, but also sneaking, and so on...).

[Altima Darkspells]

Yeah, the padding was pretty thick in some places.  I didn't have a problem with the Kocari Wilds so much, since it was more of an introduction to combat (small bands of enemies, large bands of enemies, all melee enemies, all ranged enemies, spellcaster enemies, even an orange boss-like foe, traps, and stealthed enemies).

The Fade, while not bugging me, I can see how it would be annoying.  On the plus side, you get very good rewards by sticking with it (20+ points of attributes!), not to mention it's in the easiest of the quest areas and you get Wynne there, too.

The Deep Roads, however, were just painful.  Huge, ugly, boring areas.  Swarms of annoying enemies who don't have the decency to die to just one attack/spell.  The rewards were pitiful, for the most part, but completionists have to go through all the areas to eek out the most experience and get decent weapons and armor if it happened to be a masochistic choice as the first area you went to.

If everything between Orzammar and Bownammar had been cut out, it would've been a much tolerable exercise.

Oh, and let's not forget that many people's That One Boss happens to be in the Deep Roads.  Damn spiders.

TheMufflon wrote...

I agree with the OP, I think there was way to much pointless combat in DA:O, but then again I was never a fan of combat in CRPGs. If I got my way, it would all be like the beach house mission in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.

Heh, remember the sewers?  Sometimes one has to wonder what goes through the heads of these developers sometimes...

[Stefanocrpg_rev91]

Helena Tylena wrote...

How can you have a game that has blood as the central theme without blood flowing in ample quantities?

But yes, the Deep Roads and most Fade sections were too long to the point they became boring. Just about the entirety of Caradin's Cross could've been cut, in my opinion, the relevant side-quest bits moved to other Deep Road sections.
The Sloth Demon's section of the Fade is a very interesting concept, but too long the second time you play through it. Not aided by the fact you're alone pretty much the entire length of it.

Yeah, the Sloth Demon' section was long, but at least you had the possibility of changing form and so the gameplay was different from the other parts of the game... the Deep Roads instead are just too long, many parts there could have been cut and it would be better, as you said.

[Narreneth]

Johnson45 wrote...

The only bit which I thought was a slog was the fade, but I think most of the members here would agree with me. I never thought it was too much padding.

FFXIII, now thats what I call padding.

Definitely.  The Fade was fun the first time.  Every time after that I've begrudgingly done it as early as possible just so I can get it done and over with because it was such a terrible departure from the rest of the game.  They could have made it so much more interesting.

[Narreneth]

TheMufflon wrote...

I agree with the OP, I think there was way to much pointless combat in DA:O, but then again I was never a fan of combat in CRPGs. If I got my way, it would all be like the beach house mission in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.

I loved that game.  I think I'ma boot it up and play it now.  Thanks for giving me something to do tonight.

[SDNcN]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Heh, remember the sewers?  Sometimes one has to wonder what goes through the heads of these developers sometimes...

All sewer levels are horrible, no exceptions.

[Narreneth]

SDNcN wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Heh, remember the sewers?  Sometimes one has to wonder what goes through the heads of these developers sometimes...

All sewer levels are horrible, no exceptions.

But, but... the rats!

[TheMufflon]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Heh, remember the sewers?  Sometimes one has to wonder what goes through the heads of these developers sometimes...

Yeah, that game (just like pretty much every other Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian game) felt woefully unfinished. It's like they had this awsome idea and design philosophy, but they ran out of time so they ended up just throwing some levels together and released a game full of bugs.

[Kagrenac]

While I did not like the fade, the deep roads were just epic! I loved the part with the spider queen and the level design itself. It really felt that this area wasn´t explored by anyone the past 100 years. Spiderwebs everywhere and dwarven tombs towards Brownammar. And that Bridge to Bownammar where you meet the Legion of dead....Just epic! I actually dont like to have more combat than dialogue, but in my opinion the deep roads where made so authentic and good that it didnt bother me!

[EmStar202]

The deep roads I could handle, but the fade? Ugh. Even my first playthrough I got a bit bored. The idea of it is interesting, but I think it could have been better. Like no matter what you're origin you still get that Duncan dream. Wouldn't it have been cool if the dreams were different for each origin? Plus you were alone for the whole thing; I remember I had to switch to casual my first playthrough because I was a warrior and was running out of health potions. I wanted my healer back! Then when you finally did find them they disappeared. I guess the reason I didn't like it mainly is because I like to fight with other characters in rpgs, not just alone.

[Avaflame]

I loved The Fade section, my only problem was that when you found a companion, they disappeared. Didn't make sense to me as to why they were any different then you. But that has nothing to do with combat. I think the amount of combat in DA: O was just fine.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, filler combat is one of the Bio traditions that I wish would die. At least DAO isn't as bad as BG2.

[Marzillius]

The combat was just fine in DA:O. The Fade could get tedious after the first time, but I loved the Deep Roads. Ever since I first read The Lord of the Rings many years ago, I've always loved Moria-ish underground kingdoms. If DA2 doesn't have the Deep Roads in them... I don't know what to do! I will go insane!

[Altima Darkspells]

TheMufflon wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Heh, remember the sewers?  Sometimes one has to wonder what goes through the heads of these developers sometimes...

Yeah, that game (just like pretty much every other Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian game) felt woefully unfinished. It's like they had this awsome idea and design philosophy, but they ran out of time so they ended up just throwing some levels together and released a game full of bugs.

It's not that it was unfinished, it's just that the sewer level of VtM: Bloodlines was just horrible design, period.

For those unaware of one of the greatest RPGs ever, VtM:B has you in the role of a, you guessed it, Vampire.  Unlike many games, you can finish many quests without even engaging in combat.  Plus many of your enemies were puny mortals that, with the right Clan and enough experience, you could make their blood boil and cause them to explode.  Or just make them go into a deadly, psychotic frenzy.

The way you use these abilities are from blood, which does not regenerate.  You must either carry bloodpacks, which are expensive, or find your food, either through your enemies, hapless civilians, or rats (and one clan may not feed off rats--another gets double blood from rats but cannot be seen by anyone outside a combat area).

In a drastic departure from the rest of the game, the 'sewer' level of Bloodlines is three or four *long* levels mixed in body horror, frustration, and annoyance.  It's near impossible to sneak past the enemies.  There's few opportunities to reclaim blood (especially if you're the clan that cannot feed from rats).  Your enemies are sorta like you and take less damage from gunfire, and your most powerful gun at that point is an automatic shotgun, so you eat through ammo.

Oh, and you fight multiple, *very* tough enemies, including one of which that is three pregnant women melted together.  Last but not least, because these critters are like you, they deal aggravated damage--which is the 'worst' type of damage, since you can only get reduction from it through armor and a discipline that only a few clans have access to, and you regenerate extremely slowly from that type--and your disciplines--think this game's magic--affect the enemies to a lesser degree.  Case in point, the skill that makes humans explode in a gory mess?  Used against one of the larger critters will do massive damage, but will not kill it.  It takes four blood to activate, and you can have, I believe, only ten blood in you at a time. 

That's an example of very poor design choice, and even some of the devs who worked on the game were flabergasted over it.  Compared to that nightmare, the Fade sections were a walk in the park.

[Altima Darkspells]

Marzillius wrote...

The combat was just fine in DA:O. The Fade could get tedious after the first time, but I loved the Deep Roads. Ever since I first read The Lord of the Rings many years ago, I've always loved Moria-ish underground kingdoms. If DA2 doesn't have the Deep Roads in them... I don't know what to do! I will go insane!

One of the concept art wallpapers that GI released was called "Deep Roads".  Take of that what you will.