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Do you think they'll be any black, Asian, etc. NPC's in DA2?


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#226
Truncated Flea

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Tirigon wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

I thought Dragon Age was supposed to be all about grey morality – why do darkspawn even exist? They are the epitome of black-and-white morality. They are pure evilness. That's why it's so easy to offend people by comparing any group of people to the darkspawn. I do not mean to say that there have not been civilizations which have done pretty monstrous things – while I'm not sure of it's true or not, the account of the Mongols catapulting plagued corpses into besieged cities seems fairly monstrous. What the ****s did seems pretty monstrous. But to compare any group of people to a fictional belligerent group which is composed, quite literally, of monsters – evil to the core – then you have committed to a sort of one-dimensionalization that, yes, even the ****s do not deserve.


The Darksapwn aren´t all bad, they simply eat humans.

Of course, to us humans that seems bad, but objectively it´s not worse than humans are to many animals.

At least Darksapwn do not hold humans in cage and feed them to reach a good weight very fast before slaughtering them, like humans do with chicken and pigs and cows and fish and.... You get the idea.

In fact, humanity has done more cruel things than darkspawn.


I'm pretty sure darkspawn do more than just eat people. :D I mean, they corrupt the very habitat and apparently destroy every lifeform in any place they inhabit. They don't do anything except mindlessly destroy everything--unless there are darkspawn philosophers/artists/architects/etc. that haven't been mentioned. They're very much black-and-white evil.

#227
Tirigon

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

Tell me, Tirigon, do you enjoy PETA?


No I don´t. I think they´re strange. It is healthy and natural to eat animals.


They have funny advertisement though, this one made me just laugh:
Posted Image

#228
Tirigon

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Truncated Flea wrote...

I'm pretty sure darkspawn do more than just eat people. :D I mean, they corrupt the very habitat and apparently destroy every lifeform in any place they inhabit.

Humanity has caused the greatest extinction of animals since the dinosaurs died out.
Every day a breed of animals (or were it many? Not sure anymore....) dies out, most of them caused by humanity.

They don't do anything except mindlessly destroy everything--unless there are darkspawn philosophers/artists/architects/etc. that haven't been mentioned. They're very much black-and-white evil.

The architect.
Other than him, not so much unfortunately.

#229
Guest_Puddi III_*

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Tirigon wrote...

The Darksapwn aren´t all bad, they simply eat humans.

Of course, to us humans that seems bad, but objectively it´s not worse than humans are to many animals.

At least Darksapwn do not hold humans in cage and feed them to reach a good weight very fast before slaughtering them, like humans do with chicken and pigs and cows and fish and.... You get the idea.

In fact, humanity has done more cruel things than darkspawn.


At least as far as Origins is concerned, they are portrayed as an unthinking evil whose only purpose is to kill all of civilization... I can't think of anything really more evil than that. That's what I mean by one-dimensionalizing. There is no other dimension to them, they are simply there to cause suffering and death. One might argue that they're simply "true neutral", like a grizzly bear or such, unable to think at such a level as to be truly "evil", but they can think well enough to organize and equip themselves and contend with human armies, so I would disagree with that assertion. They merely use that thinking for entirely malevolent purposes.

I suppose one could also argue that perhaps from their perspective it's just a matter of survival, but.. again, they aren't unthinking animals. A person with a human capacity for intelligence who nonetheless manifests his survival instinct in the way that darkspawn do would be considered a dangerous sociopath. I'm not the kind of person who uses the term 'evil' lightly, because I don't think any person is so one-dimensional as to fit neatly into such a label... but the darkspawn are.

You're right, the Architect does not seem to be as one-dimensional, but he still seems to be rather sociopathic... I haven't completed Awakening though, so I can't really comment on that.

As for what we do to animals, well, we don't go out of our way to nuke all of the rainforests and kill all animals just for the sake of killing them. So there's a bit of difference. We have reasons. We have dimension.

#230
Tirigon

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filaminstrel wrote...

As for what we do to animals, well, we don't go out of our way to nuke all of the rainforests and kill all animals just for the sake of killing them. So there's a bit of difference. We have reasons. We have dimension.


Personally, I agree. But go tell that to a militant vegetarian, and God may have mercy on your soul.....

I have actually heard people claiming everybody who eats animals is not a true, thinking human but a dangerous, insane abomination.....


Of course it´s bullsh!t, but it shows that "reason" is a highly relative statement.

#231
Bryy_Miller

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Tirigon wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Tell me, Tirigon, do you enjoy PETA?


No I don´t. I think they´re strange. It is healthy and natural to eat animals.


They have funny advertisement though, this one made me just laugh:
Posted Image


You're German, yes? You should really see the cr@p they pull in the states. People legally changing their names to PETA.com, a petition to get the name 'fish' changed to 'sea kitten'. Then there's the fact that they kill more animals than they save per year.

#232
Tirigon

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

You're German, yes? You should really see the cr@p they pull in the states. People legally changing their names to PETA.com, a petition to get the name 'fish' changed to 'sea kitten'. Then there's the fact that they kill more animals than they save per year.


Lol, they kill animals? Why that? And how? do you mean, they go hunting for fun or what?

#233
Bryy_Miller

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No, population control. I mean, that's how they justify it and that's good and all that. But at the same time, it's completely hypocritical when they put out ads where turkeys have locked people in a supermarket for Thanksgiving and are trying to kill them.

#234
Tirigon

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

No, population control. I mean, that's how they justify it and that's good and all that. But at the same time, it's completely hypocritical when they put out ads where turkeys have locked people in a supermarket for Thanksgiving and are trying to kill them.


Ah, population control. I know a German party who did the same with humans, only that then it was called Genocide........

#235
DespiertaLosNinos

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Bryy_Miller wrote...



No, population control. I mean, that's how they justify it and that's good and all that. But at the same time, it's completely hypocritical when they put out ads where turkeys have locked people in a supermarket for Thanksgiving and are trying to kill them.




That is the problem with any extremist group (though PETA isn't a prime extremist example), self-awareness flies out the window right behind rationality. The original intent may be sound but the practice is worse than those they protest. Believe me, I am attempting to make NO political or social statements here but to say that the majority of these types of groups I have dealt with have long since lost any sense of perspective.

#236
Bryy_Miller

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I'm going to go extreme here and say, look at the Tea Party: they were founded on questions that could easily be answered and concerns that could easily be addressed, but since they got swallowed extremely early on by crazies, we have what we have.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 18 juillet 2010 - 11:16 .


#237
DespiertaLosNinos

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Yeah the Tea Party group is a good example, their original intent has been eclipsed by the sheer amount of racism and bigotry that is rampant within the "organization."

#238
handheld

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MuseMajora wrote...

Sago_mulch wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

It's a fantasy world. Please no black people. Otherwise these will be saracens.


i agree. if we have blacks, black ppl will demand fried chickken and watermelon in the game or it will be racist.


That's not all black people are about though. The Ancient Egyptians were often hailed as being some of the most advanced people on the planet. They didn't have any watermelons or Fried Chicken then, Europeans did though...
.



Handheld himself knows the truth about the egyptians. Indeed Handheld agrees they did not have fried chicken or watermelons instead Handheld knows they had ChickenMelons and fried water YUMMM!

#239
Narreneth

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Tirigon wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

No, population control. I mean, that's how they justify it and that's good and all that. But at the same time, it's completely hypocritical when they put out ads where turkeys have locked people in a supermarket for Thanksgiving and are trying to kill them.


Ah, population control. I know a German party who did the same with humans, only that then it was called Genocide........


PETA sind nicht Hitler, aber  sie sind verrueckt.

#240
Arttis

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I want only albino black people in my games...or are they there already?

Get past the damn skin color already.

#241
Thibbledorf26

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Chasind and Rivain seem to be darker skinned, hope we'll see them. Dunno if there are Asian looking peeps in DA universe. Hopefully we see more envirionmental variety, I'm still upset DA2 isnt set in Orlais, after the aesthetically generic Ferelden setting.

#242
Arttis

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Lets add blue people too.


#243
HolyMoogle

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MuseMajora wrote...

Heh, this topic is rather funny.

Dragon Age is no different then any other European Medieval Fantasy setting if you really think about. The Witcher, Fable, Elder Scrolls, Zelda, these games aren't exactly "ethnically diverse." The reason being is because, well, obviously, in Medieval Europe, it was pretty much all white people. (well, except for a few Spanish countries, but we all know where that argument goes)

If I play a Japanese game like Persona, Final Fantasy, or ninja Gaiden which are based off of Medieval Asian fantasy, I don't want to see white people or black people, I want to see Japanese people, because that's the setting the game strives for. Imagine playing a game based off of Chinese fiction and folklore with all white people...It wouldn't make any sense. If a game is based off of Europe, well, I expect to see people who resemble that of a European. (not that i'm opposing other races/ethnicity's or anything.)


Wait, what? Sorry to dredge up something from several pages ago, but what?

Persona is not based on "Medieval Asian fantasy"... It's based on present day Japan, except with a bunch of wierd unexplained phenomena going on.

Final Fantasy is predominantly the same European Medieval Fantasy as all the other games you were talking about, with the exception random bits of futuristicness, and FFX's Okinawa trip.

A better example for what you're talking about would be Bioware's own Jade Empire... or indeed Ninja Gaiden. Although that's modern too.

#244
MuseMajora

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HolyMoogle wrote...

MuseMajora wrote...

Heh, this topic is rather funny.

Dragon Age is no different then any other European Medieval Fantasy setting if you really think about. The Witcher, Fable, Elder Scrolls, Zelda, these games aren't exactly "ethnically diverse." The reason being is because, well, obviously, in Medieval Europe, it was pretty much all white people. (well, except for a few Spanish countries, but we all know where that argument goes)

If I play a Japanese game like Persona, Final Fantasy, or ninja Gaiden which are based off of Medieval Asian fantasy, I don't want to see white people or black people, I want to see Japanese people, because that's the setting the game strives for. Imagine playing a game based off of Chinese fiction and folklore with all white people...It wouldn't make any sense. If a game is based off of Europe, well, I expect to see people who resemble that of a European. (not that i'm opposing other races/ethnicity's or anything.)


Wait, what? Sorry to dredge up something from several pages ago, but what?

Persona is not based on "Medieval Asian fantasy"... It's based on present day Japan, except with a bunch of wierd unexplained phenomena going on.

Final Fantasy is predominantly the same European Medieval Fantasy as all the other games you were talking about, with the exception random bits of futuristicness, and FFX's Okinawa trip.

A better example for what you're talking about would be Bioware's own Jade Empire... or indeed Ninja Gaiden. Although that's modern too.


That's because you are not familiar with Japanese Folklore. Person has many elements from ancient Japanese legends and folklore, such as the enemy's. The setting may be present though. And many FF games are indeed set in a place based off Japan, especially the newer ones.

#245
HolyMoogle

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MuseMajora wrote...

HolyMoogle wrote...

MuseMajora wrote...

Heh, this topic is rather funny.

Dragon Age is no different then any other European Medieval Fantasy setting if you really think about. The Witcher, Fable, Elder Scrolls, Zelda, these games aren't exactly "ethnically diverse." The reason being is because, well, obviously, in Medieval Europe, it was pretty much all white people. (well, except for a few Spanish countries, but we all know where that argument goes)

If I play a Japanese game like Persona, Final Fantasy, or ninja Gaiden which are based off of Medieval Asian fantasy, I don't want to see white people or black people, I want to see Japanese people, because that's the setting the game strives for. Imagine playing a game based off of Chinese fiction and folklore with all white people...It wouldn't make any sense. If a game is based off of Europe, well, I expect to see people who resemble that of a European. (not that i'm opposing other races/ethnicity's or anything.)


Wait, what? Sorry to dredge up something from several pages ago, but what?

Persona is not based on "Medieval Asian fantasy"... It's based on present day Japan, except with a bunch of wierd unexplained phenomena going on.

Final Fantasy is predominantly the same European Medieval Fantasy as all the other games you were talking about, with the exception random bits of futuristicness, and FFX's Okinawa trip.

A better example for what you're talking about would be Bioware's own Jade Empire... or indeed Ninja Gaiden. Although that's modern too.


That's because you are not familiar with Japanese Folklore. Person has many elements from ancient Japanese legends and folklore, such as the enemy's. The setting may be present though. And many FF games are indeed set in a place based off Japan, especially the newer ones.


I'm more familiar than you'd probably think.

Persona certainly has Japanese mythological elements in its enemies, but it also has equal parts Greece, the Middle East, Norse, and so on, in a modern Japanese setting.

FFs I-V are basically set in the same vague medieval European setting as its DnD roots, with little bits of futuristicness purely from the designer's imagination. VI went all industrial revolution, VII mixed Jewish mysticism with 80's/90's Japanese anime stylings, VIII blended Japanese high school dramas with the feel of a Hollywood epic, FFIX went back to medieval Europe with a new Brothers Grimm flair, X took in Okinawa and also aspects of South-East Asian history and mythology, X-2 J-Pop, XI takes in too much to count, XII is ancient Rome with pseudo-Elizabethan dialogue and Star Wars tech, XIII is purely pie in the sky futuristicness over Native American-inspired lower world. XIV is shaping up to be similar to XI, with Yoshida's own flair.

What I've given is an incredibly simplistic and generalised description of Final Fantasy's settings, but one that largely fits. Of course, each Final Fantasy, like Persona, is also pretty much a compendium of monsters and mythological situations from Europe, the Middle East, continental Asia and Japan. However, if you think that Japan is dotted with European-style castles and palaces and overrun with mytholical Greek monsters, perhaps think again. FF certainly has lots of references to Japanese folklore and mythology, but it's most evident in X and X-2, certain monster designs, and bits of philosophy rather than the settings of the rest of the games.

If you want more detail, there's lots of analyses of Final Fantasy around, but something I'd recommend is Gametrailer's retrospective, in particular the parts relating to VII-X/X-2, and also the final part which examines the series as a whole.

#246
Sigma Tauri

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MuseMajora wrote...

Elder Scrolls...these games aren't exactly "ethnically diverse." The reason being is because, well, obviously, in Medieval Europe, it was pretty much all white people. (well, except for a few Spanish countries, but we all know where that argument goes)


You have eight to ten races to play, dude. Cyrodiil contains mainly foreigners than white people.

#247
memtz

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HolyMoogle wrote...

MuseMajora wrote...

HolyMoogle wrote...

MuseMajora wrote...

Heh, this topic is rather funny.

Dragon Age is no different then any other European Medieval Fantasy setting if you really think about. The Witcher, Fable, Elder Scrolls, Zelda, these games aren't exactly "ethnically diverse." The reason being is because, well, obviously, in Medieval Europe, it was pretty much all white people. (well, except for a few Spanish countries, but we all know where that argument goes)

If I play a Japanese game like Persona, Final Fantasy, or ninja Gaiden which are based off of Medieval Asian fantasy, I don't want to see white people or black people, I want to see Japanese people, because that's the setting the game strives for. Imagine playing a game based off of Chinese fiction and folklore with all white people...It wouldn't make any sense. If a game is based off of Europe, well, I expect to see people who resemble that of a European. (not that i'm opposing other races/ethnicity's or anything.)


Wait, what? Sorry to dredge up something from several pages ago, but what?

Persona is not based on "Medieval Asian fantasy"... It's based on present day Japan, except with a bunch of wierd unexplained phenomena going on.

Final Fantasy is predominantly the same European Medieval Fantasy as all the other games you were talking about, with the exception random bits of futuristicness, and FFX's Okinawa trip.

A better example for what you're talking about would be Bioware's own Jade Empire... or indeed Ninja Gaiden. Although that's modern too.


That's because you are not familiar with Japanese Folklore. Person has many elements from ancient Japanese legends and folklore, such as the enemy's. The setting may be present though. And many FF games are indeed set in a place based off Japan, especially the newer ones.


I'm more familiar than you'd probably think.

Persona certainly has Japanese mythological elements in its enemies, but it also has equal parts Greece, the Middle East, Norse, and so on, in a modern Japanese setting.


Persona RPGs and in fact all Shin Megami Tensei RPGs (to which Persona is part to) is based on demon mythology. With 'demon' being the ancient greek definition of deity, god, spirit, etc... In other words, the mythology is based upon all religions of the world, both well-known and well forgotten. The fact that all of them take place in Japan is because it's made from Japanese.

FF is like you said.

Personally, I think Dragon Age has a lot of its names from the old Celtic Mythology of Britain, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Though, my knowledge of this mythology is minimal. That applies to Ferelden, the setting of DA. Now, we can wait until DA2 to see if there's any place in Thedas that resembles an asian or african setting. Though, with a bit of extensive knowledge of Thedas from sources outside of DA, there's no kingdom that takes its influences outside of medieval Europe.