246 réponses à ce sujet

[Weiser_Cain]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

saMOOrai182 wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Thedas is a Europe analogue. In the middle ages there weren't a large number of Africans and Asians running around France and England. There were some but it's not like today where every race can be found in pretty much every country, I suppose you'd be hard pressed to find a white person in North Korea.

its also a Fantasy game. it doesnt always have to stick to Historical Fact

It doesn't have to stick to historical fact, but some common sense and some realism help set up a story that people can connect with. People developing/evolving darker skin makes more sense in an environment like central Aftrica, not a place similar to Norway.
Also wouldn't make sense for a very pale skin tone to develop in a environment primarily desert.
Immersion helps with entertainment, I know some people laughed or felt a little out of place when their Human Noble looked nothing like his/her family, but some did write it off as being born of a different father or mother.

Explain Elves.

[Saibh]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

er, what exactly are you talking about? i assumed that the opening poster wanted fleshed out cultures and societies based off of historical Asian or Afircan cultures, and both of my replies were in response to that.

personally, i that is not important to me because like I said, 1) i would go out and play a game based off those cultures, 2)i would rather learn more about what we've  been told already rather than being overloaded with so many different and new legends, customs, etc. etc. I think the idea would initially be fun at first but it would get to be too much too fast as well. even so, i can easily see and empathize with why people would want that.

"well i mean i can understand why it would important for some people
to have that kind of representation, kind of like how a lot of females
would like to play as their own gender or homosexuals would like
romantic inclusion as well"

This is the part that confused me--you're giving examples of the character being allowed to represent a certain group, not being represented on the face of Thedas. I assumed this carried through to mean that you didn't think the character was allowed to be black, or Arabic, or Hispanic or so forth.

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I love how
this is posted right after the ME2 dialogue which is basically this.

ME2 dialogue? What?

[Sigma Tauri]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
It doesn't have to stick to historical fact, but some common sense and some realism help set up a story that people can connect with.

That's a fair assumption, up until the author clearly has an explanation that contradicts it.

[Daerog]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

It doesn't have to stick to historical fact, but some common sense and some realism help set up a story that people can connect with. People developing/evolving darker skin makes more sense in an environment like central Aftrica, not a place similar to Norway.
Also wouldn't make sense for a very pale skin tone to develop in a environment primarily desert.
Immersion helps with entertainment, I know some people laughed or felt a little out of place when their Human Noble looked nothing like his/her family, but some did write it off as being born of a different father or mother.

Explain Elves.

Elves? You mean the wandering nomads who are the Dalish, or just all elves in general who come from all over Thedas? If all over, the elves are of varying skin tones because they were once enslaved from almost all corners of Thedas and thrown around the continent, thus spreading their genes far more than humans did.
Human peasants don't travel as far as a slave does.
Dalish elves also constantly travel and have meetings at certain times, likely to arrange marriages and pass information, so their genetics still spread farther than humans who have settlements and don't travel great distances.
So, it is the Tevinter Imperiums fault for the elves being really diverse in small areas. Still is in some cases since we still see slavery being done.
Hope this answers you're question for why elves are seen to be more diverse than humans, have a nice day.

[Daerog]

monkeycamoran wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
It doesn't have to stick to historical fact, but some common sense and some realism help set up a story that people can connect with.

That's a fair assumption, up until the author clearly has an explanation that contradicts it.

That's great, and would love to hear it. Just saying people like immersion, and if there is an explanation for something that is a bit odd, like the human noble thing, then I'm all for it. If they don't have one though, it can break immersion for many since they developed Thedas as a fantasy world similar and influenced by medieval Europe.

[MuseMajora]

Heh, this topic is rather funny.

Dragon Age is no different then any other European Medieval Fantasy setting if you really think about. The Witcher, Fable, Elder Scrolls, Zelda, these games aren't exactly "ethnically diverse." The reason being is because, well, obviously, in Medieval Europe, it was pretty much all white people. (well, except for a few Spanish countries, but we all know where that argument goes)

If I play a Japanese game like Persona, Final Fantasy, or ninja Gaiden which are based off of Medieval Asian fantasy, I don't want to see white people or black people, I want to see Japanese people, because that's the setting the game strives for. Imagine playing a game based off of Chinese fiction and folklore with all white people...It wouldn't make any sense. If a game is based off of Europe, well, I expect to see people who resemble that of a European. (not that i'm opposing other races/ethnicity's or anything.)

Modifié par MuseMajora, 18 juillet 2010 - 03:52 .

[saphirekosmos]

Gotta agree with Muse here. In my opinion adding in racial diversity simply for political correctness and no other reason is asinine. Now if there was a reason, say you went to a border town founded my colonists from a different country or encountered travelers from such a country then it makes perfect sense and I am all for it. If the game is based off of medieval Europe the I would expect a predominatly cast considering that in that time and place there were mainly more fair skinned people. Now if I was playing a game based off of ancient Africa I would expect mainly black people. There is nothing racist about it, it is simple logic.

[stevej713]

Ladybright wrote...

I'm hoping Kirkwall will have more of a Greek/Roman flair. They were occupied by the Imperium for a while, after all. And Ancient Greece = warring city states. Eh? Eh?

Basically I'll be happy if we finally leave England

I'd expect to see places that look like Ostagar, at most.

I think it breaks suspension of disbelief to see everything as extremely politically correct.  In games with a medieval style setting, countries are supposed to have a strong cultural/national identity.  For example, if a setting is like Scotland, it wouldn't make sense to see hispanics or Asian people everywhere.  Just like it wouldn't make sense to see white people in a Japanese/Korean setting.

Plus, I'm guessing that Dragon Age is in a High Medieval setting, during a time when people did not move very far.

Modifié par stevej713, 18 juillet 2010 - 04:09 .

[Saibh]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

It doesn't have to stick to historical fact, but some common sense and some realism help set up a story that people can connect with. People developing/evolving darker skin makes more sense in an environment like central Aftrica, not a place similar to Norway.
Also wouldn't make sense for a very pale skin tone to develop in a environment primarily desert.
Immersion helps with entertainment, I know some people laughed or felt a little out of place when their Human Noble looked nothing like his/her family, but some did write it off as being born of a different father or mother.

Explain Elves.

Elves? You mean the wandering nomads who are the Dalish, or just all elves in general who come from all over Thedas? If all over, the elves are of varying skin tones because they were once enslaved from almost all corners of Thedas and thrown around the continent, thus spreading their genes far more than humans did.
Human peasants don't travel as far as a slave does.
Dalish elves also constantly travel and have meetings at certain times, likely to arrange marriages and pass information, so their genetics still spread farther than humans who have settlements and don't travel great distances.
So, it is the Tevinter Imperiums fault for the elves being really diverse in small areas. Still is in some cases since we still see slavery being done.
Hope this answers you're question for why elves are seen to be more diverse than humans, have a nice day.

Actually. Elves were from Thedas first--humans came from elsewhere. Evidently, mostly white humans. If there's a pseudo-African/Asian, what-have-you race, it's probably where the humans came from.

[Daerog]

stevej713 wrote...

Ladybright wrote...

I'm hoping Kirkwall will have more of a Greek/Roman flair. They were occupied by the Imperium for a while, after all. And Ancient Greece = warring city states. Eh? Eh?

Basically I'll be happy if we finally leave England

I'd expect to see places that look like Ostagar, at most.

Is it because of that whole spartan craze that people immediately think Greece when talking about warring city states? I think of Italy. I hope it's more Italian and not just another England. Especially since Thedas gets warmer the farther north you go.

[stevej713]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

stevej713 wrote...

Ladybright wrote...

I'm hoping Kirkwall will have more of a Greek/Roman flair. They were occupied by the Imperium for a while, after all. And Ancient Greece = warring city states. Eh? Eh?

Basically I'll be happy if we finally leave England

I'd expect to see places that look like Ostagar, at most.

Is it because of that whole spartan craze that people immediately think Greece when talking about warring city states? I think of Italy. I hope it's more Italian and not just another England. Especially since Thedas gets warmer the farther north you go.

I agree.  People seem to think that Greece was the only place at a certain time that had city states.  Medieval Italy would be a lot more interesting.

But remember that Kirkwall is only across the Waking Sea from Ferelden.  I doubt we'll see a huge change from the swamps and fields in the first Dragon Age.

Modifié par stevej713, 18 juillet 2010 - 04:13 .

[Daerog]

Saibh wrote...

Actually. Elves were from Thedas first--humans came from elsewhere. Evidently, mostly white humans. If there's a pseudo-African/Asian, what-have-you race, it's probably where the humans came from.

Are you forgetting about Rivian? Not all humans are caucasian in Thedas, just like not all elves are. Elves were all over Thedas, and were there a long time, so with being settled in different environments for thousands of generations, they developed different skin tones and looks. When the Imperium conquered the elves and enslaved them, then they started to spread to the wherever people wanted to buy slaves or sacrifices for their blood magic. However, humans didn't move around as much, so they are not as diverse in small areas, still diverse, but not in just one city like elves can be. We don't see much of Thedas, can't expect the entire continent to be just "white."

Edit: Woops, you said "mostly," my bad, didn't catch that. Mostly white is likely true if it is just Europe though, but the invasion happened a long time ago, probably from a psuedo-africa/asia like you stated since humans don't have a history before arriving to Thedas, but humans settle and adapt, but don't travel as much.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 18 juillet 2010 - 04:18 .

[MuseMajora]

saphirekosmos wrote...

Gotta agree with Muse here. In my opinion adding in racial diversity simply for political correctness and no other reason is asinine. Now if there was a reason, say you went to a border town founded my colonists from a different country or encountered travelers from such a country then it makes perfect sense and I am all for it. If the game is based off of medieval Europe the I would expect a predominatly cast considering that in that time and place there were mainly more fair skinned people. Now if I was playing a game based off of ancient Africa I would expect mainly black people. There is nothing racist about it, it is simple logic.

Yeah, speaking of which, prior to Left 4 Dead 2's release, someone was complaining that having two black protagonists in New Orleans was racist. Someone made a comment, who was of Asian Descent, saying he would hate to see people of Asian ethnicity in a place with limited Asians. In New Orleans, the Black-American population is very high. He said he would feel "insulted" to have Asian people included in it when it's politically incorrect.

It's annoying that video games need to have people of every race just to please certain people. It could potentially ruin the setting it's going for.

Modifié par MuseMajora, 18 juillet 2010 - 04:18 .

[Deviija]

Something that the writers -- Mary and David -- have said numerous times before on the old forums, during DAO's development cycle: They are not looking to create a European Medieval Sim.



Ferelden had a lot of fair-skinned people because that was the climate of ethnicity in that area. Yes, there are/were people of various color and diversity, but the dominant skin color is fair complexion. In other countries and areas of Thedas, people have different racial diversities (like the Qunari being dark golden-skinned).

[Daerog]

stevej713 wrote...

I agree.  People seem to think that Greece was the only place at a certain time that had city states.  Medieval Italy would be a lot more interesting.

But remember that Kirkwall is only across the Waking Sea from Ferelden.  I doubt we'll see a huge change from the swamps and fields in the first Dragon Age.

Edit: I need to read posts closer. Maybe there will be swamps, but there is a difference from northern Africa and southern Europe. But doesn't look like Waking Sea is close to the size of the Mediterranean (spelling is wrong, but I don't wish to fix it).

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 18 juillet 2010 - 04:28 .

[Thiefy]

Saibh wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

er, what exactly are you talking about? i assumed that the opening poster wanted fleshed out cultures and societies based off of historical Asian or Afircan cultures, and both of my replies were in response to that.

personally, i that is not important to me because like I said, 1) i would go out and play a game based off those cultures, 2)i would rather learn more about what we've  been told already rather than being overloaded with so many different and new legends, customs, etc. etc. I think the idea would initially be fun at first but it would get to be too much too fast as well. even so, i can easily see and empathize with why people would want that.

"well i mean i can understand why it would important for some people
to have that kind of representation, kind of like how a lot of females
would like to play as their own gender or homosexuals would like
romantic inclusion as well"

This is the part that confused me--you're giving examples of the character being allowed to represent a certain group, not being represented on the face of Thedas. I assumed this carried through to mean that you didn't think the character was allowed to be black, or Arabic, or Hispanic or so forth.

sorry about the ambiguity there.  i think that looking the part and actually being are two diffierent things though. for instance, i wanted to make a warden that looked like me, and i'm chinese/filipino/scott/irish, at the end of the day though, she is still a fereldan human noble and even if she looks kind of asian (which she didn't, really...infact she easily blended into the cousland family which was a weird surprise for me) her culture and bavkground is not. that's what i was referring to.

[Narreneth]

TeenZombie wrote...

SDNcN wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

No I don't think there will be. Which is another thing making it easy for me to write this game off.

Did you also expect there would be a lot of  Whites, Latinos, and Blacks in Jade Empire?

Aniki_21 wrote...

Well
you know what i mean. I just mean black or Asian "looking".  I know
"black" people or Asians exist in the Dragon Age universe.

Maybe, if they do exist then Thedas hasn't made contact with them yet. That would be a cool plotline for a game set in a country bordering the edges of the map though.

Wrong:  http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Rivain

It would be nice to get out of the pseudo Northern European rut most Tolkienesque western fantasy falls into.  Hopefully Kirkwall isn't just Ferelden with new textures.

I'm confused, what are you saying they're wrong about?  That no one has made contact with any darker skinned people or that Rivain has darker skinned people?  Also, Rivain is far from Northern European-esque so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.  Bear in mind I'm extremely tired and fairly intoxicated so I could easily be missing something.

[TeamRyan]

For the people who say that black people didn't exist in Europe during the middle ages, that is not true. The Moors which consisted of black and arab muslims occupied what I believe is spain and portugal many times during the middle ages. but they seem a lot like the Qunari anyways. so I guess its kinda already there in the game anyway.

[Sigma Tauri]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
That's great, and would love to hear it. Just saying people like immersion, and if there is an explanation for something that is a bit odd, like the human noble thing, then I'm all for it. If they don't have one though, it can break immersion for many since they developed Thedas as a fantasy world similar and influenced by medieval Europe.

The cultural influences of medieval Europe on fantasy has nothing to do with the arbitrary rules of biology that the author can write in the world. Fantasy is based on mythology, and the existence of the Fade depicts a world radically not like our own and thus have to be prepared for those odd in-world phenomena. Sometimes, you have to resort to internal consistency to be immersed into a world than to resort to realism.

It is only reasonable to assume to fill in the blanks because Bioware makes Thedas like our own world. But, it's also good to be aware that the DA campaign has its own assumptions on reality.

[DA Trap Star]

I would hope so, but I'm not expecting it. They don't have to have a whole village with them, just let me see one or two, I would be cool with it.

[Daerog]

monkeycamoran wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
That's great, and would love to hear it. Just saying people like immersion, and if there is an explanation for something that is a bit odd, like the human noble thing, then I'm all for it. If they don't have one though, it can break immersion for many since they developed Thedas as a fantasy world similar and influenced by medieval Europe.

The cultural influences of medieval Europe on fantasy has nothing to do with the arbitrary rules of biology that the author can write in the world. Fantasy is based on mythology, and the existence of the Fade depicts a world radically not like our own and thus have to be prepared for those odd in-world phenomena. Sometimes, you have to resort to internal consistency to be immersed into a world than to resort to realism.

It is only reasonable to assume to fill in the blanks because Bioware makes Thedas like our own world. But, it's also good to be aware that the DA campaign has its own assumptions on reality.

Point taken, stored, and agreed with. I don't think that just because the culture is French that it needs caucasian people though, I didn't mean that. Just the environment depends on the look of the natives, medieval Europe had an environment similar to Thedas if north was south and south was north, that's all I meant, didn't mean culture influences created the biology. You are right though.

Edit: But the writers can do what they please in the end. Again, point taken and agreed with.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 18 juillet 2010 - 04:42 .

[Sigma Tauri]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Edit: But the writers can do what they please in the end. Again, point taken and agreed with.

Not necessarily. Writers are expected to be more or less consistent within the rules and laws they established.

[Arttis]

How do you know when someone is being overly sensitive?

[Ladybright]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

stevej713 wrote...

Ladybright wrote...

I'm hoping Kirkwall will have more of a Greek/Roman flair. They were occupied by the Imperium for a while, after all. And Ancient Greece = warring city states. Eh? Eh?

Basically I'll be happy if we finally leave England

I'd expect to see places that look like Ostagar, at most.

Is it because of that whole spartan craze that people immediately think Greece when talking about warring city states? I think of Italy. I hope it's more Italian and not just another England. Especially since Thedas gets warmer the farther north you go.

Oh, I'm aware of the warring Italian city states. I thought that the devs based Antiva off of them, though? Or maybe it was just Venice they used? I don't think they'd "re-use" a country.

Hmm, thinking about it, the Italian states would probably work well considering that major powers (French, the Hapsburgs) had major stakes in Italian politics and actually warred and tried to invade a few times (analagous to the Imperium's occupation?). This is not mentioning the huge power plays within "Italy" by the various families. And it's a bit later, but Florence was a republic for a while until it turned into a monarchy. Aren't the Free Marches finally a sort of republic? They elected a Viscount.

I'll generalize and say a Mediterranean feel to DA2 would be much more welcome than a Western European/England feel.

Also I disliked 300.