246 réponses à ce sujet

[Arttis]

Now why is it that a person cannot make a character or country without it being based off something in RL.Sometimes our fantasies match something in real life people.I can imagine a ****ty woman who goes with with 10 men a day.I never seen a woman like that nor do I know if one exists.If a woman like that does exist then it is a coincidence,nothing more.

[Daerog]

Ladybright wrote...

Oh, I'm aware of the warring Italian city states. I thought that the devs based Antiva off of them, though? Or maybe it was just Venice they used? I don't think they'd "re-use" a country.

Hmm, thinking about it, the Italian states would probably work well considering that major powers (French, the Hapsburgs) had major stakes in Italian politics and actually warred and tried to invade a few times (analagous to the Imperium's occupation?). This is not mentioning the huge power plays within "Italy" by the various families. And it's a bit later, but Florence was a republic for a while until it turned into a monarchy. Aren't the Free Marches finally a sort of republic? They elected a Viscount.

I'll generalize and say a Mediterranean feel to DA2 would be much more welcome than a Western European/England feel.

Also I disliked 300.

Sorry, didn't mean to direct that to you, just in general. However, I did look it up and you are right, the wikia says that it is loosely based on Greece and Antiva is kind of like Venice or something.

I liked 300, however; it was very fun to see in theatres. Didn't mean to sound like I hated on the spartan craze, just mentioning it, I don't mind it that much, but I liked ancient Thebes and Athens more.

[Daerog]

Arttis wrote...

Now why is it that a person cannot make a character or country without it being based off something in RL.

They can, just easier to make a complex world by basing some features on our world. A world can be flat like middle earth was in the Silmarillion, then have it turn magically round and more planet like after some great battle involving the gods.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I don't expect to see any asians or blacks in Free marches. I do, however, expect to see Antivans, nevarrans, Trevinters etc.

[Gambient]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Black people didn't exist in medieval days.

Darkspawn don't exist in any time period, this is fantasy.

facepalm at Rubbish Hero.

[Arttis]

Gambient wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Black people didn't exist in medieval days.

Darkspawn don't exist in any time period, this is fantasy.

facepalm at Rubbish Hero.

Read the entire post before you facepalm.THey snipped a bit to make it sound offensive.

[Ladybright]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Sorry, didn't mean to direct that to you, just in general. However, I did look it up and you are right, the wikia says that it is loosely based on Greece and Antiva is kind of like Venice or something.

I liked 300, however; it was very fun to see in theatres. Didn't mean to sound like I hated on the spartan craze, just mentioning it, I don't mind it that much, but I liked ancient Thebes and Athens more.

Haha, no offense taken whatsoever. I figured you didn't mean it like that.

I didn't know it was actually based on Greece! I'm pretty excited now. And "It is also famous for its bazaars, which attract all sorts of cultures" sounds very neat. I hope we can visit an actually bustling market in game, not like the empty market district of Denerim.

300 was alright I guess. I think I liked the parody trailers more than the actual movie, though.

Arttis wrote...

Gambient wrote...

Weiser_Cain
wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Black people didn't
exist in medieval days.

Darkspawn don't exist in any time
period, this is fantasy.

facepalm at Rubbish Hero.

Read
the entire post before you facepalm.THey snipped a bit to make it sound
offensive.

The entire post is more offensive, honestly.

Modifié par Ladybright, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:36 .

[TheMufflon]

Ladybright wrote...

The entire post is more offensive, honestly.

It wasn't really offensive, it was just... clueless.

[joriandrake]

andar91 wrote...

Qunari are supposed to have golden skin, I believe. I doubt it, but it depends on the world. There is a lot of Thedas that has yet to be explored. As it stands, only RIvain has dark-skinned people (and they aren't quite black, just dark).

as for now the game world is mainly equal medieval europe, qunari representing the ottomans, and those rivain or what most likely the moors, i find it unlikely we will have real skin differencies, people already use elves as slaves so the option to costly transpot blacks for use as slaves is also very unlikely

[Rubbish Hero]

Arttis wrote...

Gambient wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Black people didn't exist in medieval days.

Darkspawn don't exist in any time period, this is fantasy.

facepalm at Rubbish Hero.

Read the entire post before you facepalm.THey snipped a bit to make it sound offensive.

Exactly, it's ignorant persecution, attempt to explain have been futile and tricks on word play have been
used to to force a politically correct police state in which people can't express themselves in recent
years, especially today due to people who would probably ban Zulu. All the uni students with freelove crap sipping starbucks. This must be exact opposite of  how  To Kill A Mocking bird man  would have felt when he wasn't rightfully convicted by an objective jury,  an exercise  in  futility. Nothing wrong with Zulu being used, they very powerful army in movie like Darkspawn.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:55 .

[Ladybright]

TheMufflon wrote...

Ladybright wrote...

The entire post is more offensive, honestly.

It wasn't really offensive, it was just... clueless.

Yes, but the further attempts to explain reasoning definitely edged into the "not okay" category.
RH didn't intend to be racist, but intentions don't really count for much in the large scheme of things. Equating people of color with Darkspawn just doesn't fly, regardless of intent.

Case in point: the most recent reply:

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Exactly, it's ignorant persecution, attempt to explain have been futile
and tricks on word play have been
used to to force a politically
correct police state in which people can't express themselves in recent
years,
especially today due to people who would probably ban Zulu. All the uni
students with freelove crap sipping starbucks. This must be exact
opposite of  how  To Kill A Mocking bird man  would have felt when he
wasn't rightfully convicted by an objective jury,  an exercise  in 
futility. Nothing wrong with Zulu being used, they very powerful army in
movie like Darkspawn.

You were called out by several people for racist statements. Does this make you a horrible person, undeserving of love? No, it makes you someone who said something prejudiced. You are not a victim here.

And no, defending your position against several forum posters is not in any way, shape, or form like being wrongfully convicted in a rigged trial in a society that despises you for your overall existence-- a society that then sentences you to prison. Feeling like you are being jumped on by posters is not the same as knowing you will not be able to provide for your family because twelve people decided they don't like the color of your skin.

There would be nothing inherently wrong with Zulu being used as a base for an actual human/elven/dwarven culture. The Darkspawn do not qualify. No two ways about it, they are monsters in every sense of the word. It is problematic to liken the Zulu peoples to Darkspawn because the Zulu people are not monsters, or like monsters. Even if this was not intended, likening black people to monsters plays into a larger cultural narrative that tries its hardest to paint black people as primitive, animalistic, and less than human. Likening the Zulu to the Darkspawn reinforces this view, and this is harmful. Such views are what cause and allow trials like the one in To Kill a Mockingbird -- when going up against deeply entrenched racial attitudes, it very nearly is an excersize in futility to get a fair trial.

I don't think you intended to come across this way, but please think about your words and realize that what may not seem hurtful to you -- a one-off comment about black people that includes what you think is an interesting comparison -- may come across very differently to other people who are part of the group you are talking about -- in this case, the implicit Zulu/black people = monsters.

Modifié par Ladybright, 18 juillet 2010 - 07:06 .

[Arttis]

I am of the opinion to not jump to conclusions about a persons intent on the internet.

[Ladybright]

It's pretty hazardous.

[AlanC9]

Rubbish Hero wrote...
 All the uni students with freelove crap sipping starbucks.

Whenever I see someone ****ing about other people's "freelove crap," I figure he must not be getting any. That's probably not the impression you wanted to give here.

Just critiquing rhetoric --  Ladybright's handling the substance OK.

Modifié par AlanC9, 18 juillet 2010 - 07:07 .

[BelSirk]

Ladybright , if a writer choice to adapt the huns tactics to a monster-race then the writer it's being a racist because used Huns as the basis ? Maybe I sound drastic, but for me, you sound equal with your last post

The Zulu reference got from what on this world seem to be closet to the Darkspawn (and maybe the authors based on something else), even Rubbish Hero say The "Zulu warrios" not the "zulu people", to least to me, mean she was taking acount what those warriors did on the history, not the skin color they had.

P.d. Get easy people, i don't see any guy on the game sleeping under a cactus and i'm not getting offense because that...

P.d.2. Darkspawn have a very good reference to this world: Politics! They aren't smart... however are too many for stooped them... and they corrupts everything!

p.d.3. by the way, to me, the Darkspawn seem a mix of culture (or maybe no one)... they  have the ancient gods and yet they use forges a holy site (or maybe unholy?)  and something make that evend odd its the fact they are  poor smiths

Modifié par BelSirk, 18 juillet 2010 - 07:27 .

[Rubbish Hero]

This cake is delicious.

[Arttis]

Hey you are not suppose to have your cake and eat it too!!!

[SDNcN]

Ladybright wrote...

It's pretty hazardous.

But fun.

[Ladybright]

BelSirk: If a writer chooses to use the tactics employed by the Huns for a monster race, that is all fine and dandy. By all accounts, they were pretty effective tactics. That is basing the tactics of a monster race off of the tactics of the Huns. But if the writer chooses to assert that he based those monsters on the Huns because the Hun warriors were basically equivalent to those monsters that is a different matter.* Do you see what I am getting at? It is problematic to imply (whether by analogy, metaphor, association, or any other form of rhetoric) that a part of someone is monstrous because of their ethnicity. This is what RH implied in these posts, however unintentionally. S/he equated the Zulu warriors to the Darkspawn Horde, a rotting, faceless mob that slaughters at will, eats people, transforms women into broodmothers, and infects and damages the surrounding land. According to RH, the Darkspawn are probably based on the Zulu warriors.** It was not an issue of tactics, the Zulu warriors themselves were the basis for the Darkspawn. The Darkspawn are horrifying; the Zulu are not.

*The Huns are an odd choice of example as the only accounts we have of them are from the people they conquered, who are understandably not flattering. This is not so for the Zulu.
**On the subject of warriors, are Zulu warriors somehow not a member of the Zulu people?

I'd be down for labeling the Darkspawn as politicians, though.

'pologies if thoughts are rambly or don't make sense -- it is 1:30 am here. zzzzzzzzzzzzz


Edit: This post should be replaced by four words: just don't do it. You can't compare the Zulu to darkspawn without being racist, any more than you can any other ethnic group. This post and the one it replies to are hair-splitting and detract from the issue, which is that comparing the darkspawn to the Zulu is just not okay.

Modifié par Ladybright, 18 juillet 2010 - 08:16 .

[Collider]

This thread is pure entertainment.

[UberDuber]

If I saw an asian in DA2 I would lol so hard, I dont think I could take them seriously.

[Arttis]

As a Half Asian person I find this odd and possibly offensive.

[Grommash94]

I don't know about asians, but I am sure there will be different types of NPCs in the game.

[Ravenfeeder]

Ladybright wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

stevej713 wrote...

Ladybright wrote...

I'm hoping Kirkwall will have more of a Greek/Roman flair. They were occupied by the Imperium for a while, after all. And Ancient Greece = warring city states. Eh? Eh?

Basically I'll be happy if we finally leave England

I'd expect to see places that look like Ostagar, at most.

Is it because of that whole spartan craze that people immediately think Greece when talking about warring city states? I think of Italy. I hope it's more Italian and not just another England. Especially since Thedas gets warmer the farther north you go.

Oh, I'm aware of the warring Italian city states. I thought that the devs based Antiva off of them, though? Or maybe it was just Venice they used? I don't think they'd "re-use" a country.

Hmm, thinking about it, the Italian states would probably work well considering that major powers (French, the Hapsburgs) had major stakes in Italian politics and actually warred and tried to invade a few times (analagous to the Imperium's occupation?). This is not mentioning the huge power plays within "Italy" by the various families. And it's a bit later, but Florence was a republic for a while until it turned into a monarchy. Aren't the Free Marches finally a sort of republic? They elected a Viscount.

I'll generalize and say a Mediterranean feel to DA2 would be much more welcome than a Western European/England feel.

Also I disliked 300.

Sorry for the much quoting, not sure what I should cut.

As well as Italian city states, I've imagined the Free Marches as medieval Swiss. Stop the press! I've just re-read the timeline.  It seems more likely they could be based on the medieval Balkans.  Kirkwall could easily be and analogue for Ragusa/Dubrovnik (trading hub on a narrow sea) or Belgrade (last remaining fortress of the Imperium).  The fourth Blight is the Mongol invasion.  The Qunari invasion could be the Ottomans, or maybe they're the Mongols and the Blight was the Pechenegs.

The parallels aren't perfect, nor should they be, David and co probably took inspiration from all over and warped it to their needs, but parallels there are.

[Ladybright]

Neat! I hadn't even thought of the rest of the Balkans. I like it. Off to look up Belgrade now.