246 réponses à ce sujet

[Narreneth]

... "were" has nothing to do with it anymore. You just said they all "are"

[MuseMajora]

Which is why I said I should have worded my post better. But then again, it's not like there aren't any black people living in Egypt today.

[Tirigon]

Narreneth wrote...

That doesn't sound bad ass to me.  It sounds over-the-top and stupid.  

Indeed. He writes great, and I love elves if they are portrayed as powerful, but the latest books were over-the-top even to me, and this is the reason I still have the final one lying around at home untouched and can´t bring myself to reading it:crying:

[MuseMajora]

Also, if Ancient Egyptians weren't black, then what IS black?

[saruman85]

slimgrin wrote...

Sago_mulch wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

It's a fantasy world. Please no black people. Otherwise these will be saracens.

i agree. if we have blacks, black ppl will demand fried chickken and watermelon in the game or it will be racist.

What is with this crap!? Jesus!

I honestly think they were just being sarcastic, and were actually making fun of the general stereotyping black people get in fantasy. But Gremlin and Sago, you could have worded that a lot better.

(Unless of course, you WERE actually being racist, in which case you STILL could've worded that a lot better.)

Just a thought, but weren't the Chasind black? Remember that doomsayer in Lothering?

Modifié par saruman85, 18 juillet 2010 - 07:16 .

[iTomes]

okay i didn't read all posts becaus thats just too stupid for me and id propably get some brain-tumor or something but after what i saw the most guys here are just stupid. honestly, it would be funny if it wasn't that sad. i mean come ON! is anyone aware of that postulating blacks even if they dont fit the enviroment (honestly it DOESN'T. dragon age is based on the europe of the 12-13-14century (i guess) and there werent much blacks as a matter of fact) IS racism. fantasy games are about creating an enviroment that just works out and i dont think that would work if there were much blacks, especially because the qunari are already black and that would lead to confusion. to say "i want blacks because they are black" is imo racism towards the whites and the blacks. i mean, there also were games with mainly black or asian people (Guild Wars Factions/Nightfall for example) and that was fine because it worked out. and im all for blacks and asians and whites and indians and whatever as long as it makes sense. if it doesn't, then it shouldn't be in the game.

[saruman85]

MuseMajora wrote...

Also, if Ancient Egyptians weren't black, then what IS black?

This.

[Rubbish Hero]

Why no disabled people in fantasy game? Or movie? Or Disabled in "general". That's prejudice much more so than blacks. They are in games and movies, as side characters mostly unless Will Smith Or Morgan Freeman, but there usually side characters.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 18 juillet 2010 - 07:35 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Why no disabled people in fantasy game? Or movie? Or Disabled in "general". That's prejudice much more so than blacks.

Why?

(Keep in mind that I am disabled)

[Rubbish Hero]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Why no disabled people in fantasy game? Or movie? Or Disabled in "general". That's prejudice much more so than blacks.

Why?

(Keep in mind that I am disabled)

The only actual disabled people in movies that come to mind, are ones
specifically dealing with the problems of disability. Disabled people have become a topic be explored, not people.

[Tirigon]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Why no disabled people in fantasy game? Or movie? Or Disabled in "general". That's prejudice much more so than blacks.

Why?

(Keep in mind that I am disabled)

This is probaly offending someone, so I apologize in advance, but what does this "disabled" mean?

[iTomes]

"This is probaly offending someone, so I apologize in advance, but what does this "disabled" mean?"



it means (as far as my english knowledge tells me) that someone for example cant move his legs. or his arms. it also referes to chronical mental sicknesses.

[Rubbish Hero]

Actually, Look at Valve with Halflife Episode 3 research Gabe  Newell go out and actually ask disabled people about it and what they  want in game. Alyx Vance learn sign language because boyfreind deaf, probably character used. The word being "character" which Valve will do because they are superior gaming company that understand everything but how development cycles work and and not "Oh no, disability, this is an issue lets focus on it only!"

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

In fact that's another great idea that person suggests in video. Why not add sign language guy guy during cutscenes and scripted sequences? These are not "dynamic" like real time gameplay.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 18 juillet 2010 - 07:36 .

[Tirigon]

iTomes wrote...

"This is probaly offending someone, so I apologize in advance, but what does this "disabled" mean?"

it means (as far as my english knowledge tells me) that someone for example cant move his legs. or his arms. it also referes to chronical mental sicknesses.

Thank you. I expected that, but last time I heard the appropriate word was "handicapped", I never heard disabled in this context so I was unsure.

To me, it seems odd to call humans "disabled". When I hear "disabled" I think about a tool you need no longer, or a car with the engine removed. Calling a human disabled seems terribly cruel, somehow.

[iTomes]

"To me, it seems odd to call humans "disabled". When I hear "disabled" I think about a tool you need no longer, or a car with the engine removed. Calling a human disabled seems terribly cruel, somehow."



well not sure about that i think the meaning is "not able to do this or that".

[Esoj16]

Just from reading the front page I can tell this thread is full of fail...... I love how some people automatically related slavery to the presence of black people, from all the info we have on the DA universe I'm pretty sure slavery has nothing to do with your skin color and more to do with you being an elf, and I honestly don't see why people are even complaining about this, Thedas is supposed to be a representation of Medieval Europe which wasn't very diversified yet, and from my POV I thought DAO had plenty of dark skinned people, on the subject of handicap people in DA2, I really don't see how that would work or what it's purpose would be.

[Darren1861]

I don't see why this is even a topic...I don't know why people always have to bring a Race of color in a game..Get over yourself and just play the game.

[Bryy_Miller]

Tirigon wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"This is probaly offending someone, so I apologize in advance, but what does this "disabled" mean?"

it means (as far as my english knowledge tells me) that someone for example cant move his legs. or his arms. it also referes to chronical mental sicknesses.

Thank you. I expected that, but last time I heard the appropriate word was "handicapped", I never heard disabled in this context so I was unsure.

To me, it seems odd to call humans "disabled". When I hear "disabled" I think about a tool you need no longer, or a car with the engine removed. Calling a human disabled seems terribly cruel, somehow.

iTomes explained most of it. A physical disability is much different from a mental disability and vice versa. It could be anything from ADHD to parapelegia to, in my case, Asperger's Syndrome, which is high-functioning autism.

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Why no disabled people in fantasy game? Or movie? Or Disabled in "general". That's prejudice much more so than blacks.

Why?

(Keep in mind that I am disabled)

The only actual disabled people in movies that come to mind, are ones 
specifically dealing with the problems of disability. Disabled people have become a topic be explored, not people.

How else would you do a movie with someone who is disabled?

[Ladybright]

filaminstrel wrote...

Well, I was going to say, I have a feeling there's something to be said about our willingness to demonize and one-dimensionalize "the enemy" as a collective rather than as individuals in an armed conflict, because considering them as individuals would make the conflict a lot harder to rationalize. Those kinds of assumptions that we allow ourselves to make about faceless groups of people aren't so easy to make about living, breathing individuals. Thus apparently it's okay to say the Huns as a group conducted war like monsters, but it's not okay to say the Huns themselves were monstrous. I would assert that they could both be offensive.

You could make the same argument comparing the darkspawn to the "Russian horde", and justify it by saying you're not talking about Russians themselves, but the people in that military using that military strategy... it still doesn't sound very kosher to me. You could compare the darkspawn to whoever you feel like, and say it's just their tactics you're talking about, but that's still a pretty negative thing you're saying about those people. It seems, in effect, to be a distinction of, "I'm not saying it's a duck, just that it walks like one and quacks like one."

I was originally going to assert that it makes a difference how far back in history you go. Thus, for civilization such as the Huns, Mongols, Vikings, etc, who are long gone, perhaps it's easier to portray them as 'barbaric' than it is for a modern civilization. But then I thought, why did the Iranian people get so upset with 300's depiction of the ancient Persians (as monsters)? Of course, that comparison is a lot more direct than any fan-speculation about the darkspawn being based on a past civilization... so it's not  a perfect analogy, by far. But I think it casts enough doubt on the matter that I can still say – it may not matter how far back you go. You might still risk offending the descendants of that civilization.

I thought Dragon Age was supposed to be all about grey morality – why do darkspawn even exist? They are the epitome of black-and-white morality. They are pure evilness. That's why it's so easy to offend people by comparing any group of people to the darkspawn. I do not mean to say that there have not been civilizations which have done pretty monstrous things – while I'm not sure of it's true or not, the account of the Mongols catapulting plagued corpses into besieged cities seems fairly monstrous. What the ****s did seems pretty monstrous. But to compare any group of people to a fictional belligerent group which is composed, quite literally, of monsters – evil to the core – then you have committed to a sort of one-dimensionalization that, yes, even the ****s do not deserve.

There, my foolishness has been laid bare. I apologize for subjecting you all to this. But thanks for asking.

ps – those were all generic "you"s, not referring to anyone specifically.

ps2 -- interesting censorship, I didn't realize that word was off-limits...

I agree with your thoughts completely, and thank you for sharing them. I'm curious, though, what was the censored word?

[joriandrake]

MuseMajora wrote...

Also, if Ancient Egyptians weren't black, then what IS black?

ancient egyptians were many things, but not "unicolor"

[Tirigon]

filaminstrel wrote...

I thought Dragon Age was supposed to be all about grey morality – why do darkspawn even exist? They are the epitome of black-and-white morality. They are pure evilness. That's why it's so easy to offend people by comparing any group of people to the darkspawn. I do not mean to say that there have not been civilizations which have done pretty monstrous things – while I'm not sure of it's true or not, the account of the Mongols catapulting plagued corpses into besieged cities seems fairly monstrous. What the ****s did seems pretty monstrous. But to compare any group of people to a fictional belligerent group which is composed, quite literally, of monsters – evil to the core – then you have committed to a sort of one-dimensionalization that, yes, even the ****s do not deserve.

The Darksapwn aren´t all bad, they simply eat humans.

Of course, to us humans that seems bad, but objectively it´s not worse than humans are to many animals.

At least Darksapwn do not hold humans in cage and feed them to reach a good weight very fast before slaughtering them, like humans do with chicken and pigs and cows and fish and.... You get the idea.

In fact, humanity has done more cruel things than darkspawn.

Modifié par Tirigon, 18 juillet 2010 - 08:35 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Tell me, Tirigon, do you enjoy PETA?