115 réponses à ce sujet

[Seagloom]

I haven't finished Drakensang. Heck, I only played what I assume is a quarter of it. I have a tendency to drop games for a number of reasons lately. My only serious gripe with it is combat doesn't feel intuitive. It has a clunky quality I didn't get from the NWN games. Another gripe, though not as serious is that it's old school and while I didn't immediately dismiss the game based on that, it does make it feel a little less interesting.

It feels like playing on rails. Sure, I get dialogue options here and there but most aren't meaningful and none of those I saw changed the course of a quest in a meaningful. It makes the game feel closer to a dungeon crawl. The constant fighting doesn't help either.

One thing I do feel it has over Origins is art direction. It's bright and colorful and the designs are varied and unique. I certainly don't feel the same ugly mage outfit syndrome in this game despite a few resembling bath robes. There is this gown in particular that is just gorgeous... but I digress...

As far as gameplay itself goes, I like that it's challenging and lethal. Shields are important in this game. I also like that a crowd of mooks can be very dangerous to a fully kitted high, powerful character because of wounds.

I agree with virumor on magic. Based on what I read of the pen & paper setting and what Drakensang has to offer, it isn't a high magic world. Mages are exceedingly rare and aren't engines of destruction. I thought the variety of spells for my mage was good enough at the point I reached, but then I dislike spells that go boom and tend to prefer the buff and debuff style of magic in games. Drakensang caters to my style, so I can understand why someone who prefers the other approach would feel bored. That 99.9% of CRPG mages are mobile artillery platforms in bath robes doesn't help any either.

All that said, I prefer Dragon Age for giving me a flexibility story, or at least a better illusion of flexibility than Drakensang. I'm not crazy about DA's combat either and the game often looks drab, but I still rather play it for the BioWare trappings.

Modifié par Seagloom, 27 mai 2010 - 06:31 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

There are 2 things that prevent Dragonsang becoming great:

1) Shallow and linear story/adventure.

2) The charater system seems too complicate in the beginning, but becomes too simple when you eventually get it.

The engine and art design has quite some potential. It is a pity that the developer goes under.

[Loerwyn]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

There are 2 things that prevent Dragonsang becoming great:
1) Shallow and linear story/adventure.
2) The charater system seems too complicate in the beginning, but becomes too simple when you eventually get it.
The engine and art design has quite some potential. It is a pity that the developer goes under.

Point #2 isn't the fault of Radon Labs, it's the fault of the TDE system (Well, DSA if you want to be pedantic) and the version Drakensang uses is much simpler than the one in Realms of Arkania 1-3 (the previous TDE/DSA games).

I don't prefer Drakensang because it's much harder to get into. You're dropped into the first area and it takes a while to get used to things. I think it also suffers from being translated from German, especially in regards to tooltips. You have Adventure Points (which is basically your XP) and then Experience Points to upgrade your skills. Outside of the Character sheet, Experience Points are often referred to as Levelling Points, and that's damned confusing until it clicks. There's also no physical customisation of your character too, which I feel is a let down for the game.

As a game, Drakensang is a lot less forgiving than Dragon Age, but at the point I am (I'm in Ferdok. Shhh) it's much more of an adventure game than an RPG. There's not been a whole lot of fighting yet, and most of it's been running around talking to people.

[HoonDing]

Seagloom wrote...

It feels like playing on rails. Sure, I get dialogue options here and there but most aren't meaningful and none of those I saw changed the course of a quest in a meaningful. It makes the game feel closer to dungeon crawl. The constant fighting doesn't help either.

That is all true, Radon Labs even acknowledged it and improved on the game's bad points. The prequel, River of Time, has plenty of quests with multiple ways to solve, especially since rogue class is completely overhauled (e.g. including the miracles from Realms of Arkania). There are many opportunities to minimize or completely avoid combat through stealth and/or dialogue skills. In many cases, non-violence is even the best way to progress.

Even better, this time NPCs will react differently to main character's origins & class. Considering the game's many varied locations, there should be something unique in each playthrough, whether one plays as dwarf, amazon, pirate, Elf, healing mage or Novadi metamage.

The only negative point about River of Time, is a more limited scope... which is somewhat alleviated by being able to revisit main quest areas (and new side quests will periodically become available in those locations).

Modifié par virumor, 27 mai 2010 - 06:25 .

[Seagloom]

I'll have to look into it then. Well, I was already planning to after learning of its freer character customization options, but those changes give me more reason to buy it.

[TheMadCat]

I liked Drakensang, very good game. Not as good as DA:O but overall a top 5 PG going back the last few years. Shame Radon Labs went bankrupt, so much potential there.

[DragonRageGT]

TheMadCat wrote...

I liked Drakensang, very good game. Not as good as DA:O but overall a top 5 PG going back the last few years. Shame Radon Labs went bankrupt, so much potential there.

*sighs* ... searched a bit after reading the above and found this on RPGWatch .. not so old news... May/12:

As Buffed.de reports on their website, Drakensang developer Radon Labs filed for insolvency. It seems an investor pulled out of the officially still unannounced Drakensang 3 project, which made the walk to the Berlin district court necessary.

Radon Labs was / is also working on Phileasson's Secret, the add-on to Drakensang: The River of Time. According to the same source Radon Labs has already started take-over talks with interested parties.

-----

Hope they find a way back and deliver their next great games.

[Loerwyn]

Basically, from what I've heard, Radon Labs are to German RPGs what BioWare/Interplay/Obsidian/Black Isle etc are/were to Western RPGs. I doubt they will end up folding, as I'm sure a company such as JoWood or Atari will come along and pick them up. Sadly, I don't think dtp will (the company who published Drakensang & River of Time), because they're not willing to fund a Drakensang 3.



Been involved in a debate over on the dtp forums, and we've basically come to the conclusion that this is, in part, dtp's fault. Drakensang was not marketed or pushed to any real degree outside of Germany. The non-German versions are also released a while after the German versions (due to localization etc), but if Drakensang was anything to go by then they don't get the same support. Was also a bit of a kick in the teeth for non-Germans with the addon for Drakensang: RoT (the aforementioned Phileasson's Secret), as we don't even have RoT yet.

[HoonDing]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Basically, from what I've heard, Radon Labs are to German RPGs what BioWare/Interplay/Obsidian/Black Isle etc are/were to Western RPGs. I doubt they will end up folding, as I'm sure a company such as JoWood or Atari will come along and pick them up. Sadly, I don't think dtp will (the company who published Drakensang & River of Time), because they're not willing to fund a Drakensang 3.

Not really, Drakensang is Radon Labs' first RPG. Piranha Bytes would be the 'BioWare' of German RPGs (although personally I feel Piranha Bytes is more a BioWare/Bethesda hybrid). The legendary Realms of Arkania were developed by Attic Entertainment.

Apparently, dtp bailed out because they didn't agree with Radon Labs' development plans for Drakensang 3... since although Drakensang was a great success in Germany, it had a rough time on the international market (DSA being largely unknown outside hardcore RPG circles). But honestly, Drakensang's lesser success abroad could be attributed to the publisher... due to an almost complete lack of marketing (other example: Venetica. How many people have heard of this game outside Germany?)

In short: Radon Labs didn't agree with plans to "casualize" the game. Hopefully Koch Media/Deep Silver will become a new investor. Considering how much of an improvement River of Time is, a Drakensang sequel deserves to be made.

[Loerwyn]

Whoops, must have gotten mixed up there, then. TDE is the D&D of Germany, right? But I agree about dtp's marketing, I only heard about Venetica through the dtp forums, and I've still got very little idea of what it's like.



I think, however, Drakensang itself is sort of a problem. If you look at the box art, it does look cartoony and I think that gives a false impression of the game and its complexity.

[Seagloom]

virumor wrote...

(other example: Venetica. How many people have heard of this game outside Germany?)

That's a sad reason to back out then. It's true, their advertising has been less than stellar. The only reason I ever heard of Drakensang was because an RPG specialty site I frequent kept making news updates on it. I discovered Venetica when I noticed the protagonist's face in dtp's forums and decided to figure out what game she was from. If we never see a true Drakensang sequel because of that, it will be sad.

[HoonDing]

Strange thing is, though, Venetica is released outside Germany but only in the rest of Europe. I possess an English version of the game.

It may also be that dtp simply couldn't make deal with a North American publisher. IIRC it also took a while before THQ agreed to published Drakensang.

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

I think, however, Drakensang itself is sort of a problem. If you look at the box art, it does look cartoony and I think that gives a false impression of the game and its complexity.

I've made this same argument on the dtp forums.

But strangely enough, the Mediterranean game box art (See here) does look fairly 'mature'. I had argued that in the age of 'dark, gritty fantasy' RPGs, using such a box art for all versions would have given the game more attention.

In short: marketing fail.

Modifié par virumor, 27 mai 2010 - 10:25 .

[Loerwyn]

We got dtp in the UK for Drakensang, no idea if we have Venetica or not yet.



I really liked that box art, and it's a shame it wasn't the default. It's basically the same, but different enough to look more mature.

[Seagloom]

Venetica is listed as TBA on PC at Wikipedia for North America. Then again it's Wikipedia... and TBA is as good as never to me. Was that box art exclusive to Europe? It looks waaay better. Surprising considering it's the same characters posed identically. The version we got looks like a simplified rendition. Cartoony as OS wrote. That one has more of a traditional fantasy look. Aaanyway, this is a bit of a tangent so I'll get off it here.

Modifié par Seagloom, 27 mai 2010 - 11:14 .

[Loerwyn]

The version we have in the UK is the simplified one, too. I think it was really only Spain that got that cover.



But yes, I think it's safe to say that as of this moment in time, I prefer Drakensang over Dragon Age.

[DragonRageGT]

I prefer Drakensang over Dragon Age at this moment because that's the one I'm playing, before I go back to DA:O. But for me Dragon Age is better overall. Now, I'm very easy to please, at least as far games are concerned, I guess, because I love them all. BG, NWN, Gothics, Diablos, Risen and a lot more.

I've given 9.0 to Risen and I'd give 9.0 to Drakensang while Dragon Age got me taking 0.8 from 10 because of the bugs and no fixing which I'd expect from a game house as big as BioWare. So it's a 9.2 for me.

And for Drakensang, this is a review worth reading.

http://www.gamebansh...e-dark-eye.html

And as a comparison on combat style, I've put these 2 videos out. DA:O has a more fluid combat. Drakensang indeed has the "dance around chairs" that the review mention but it is still enjoyable nonetheless.

Dragon Age - Origins - My Dragon Age Girls - Fast 2 Hander

Drakensang - TDE - My Drakensang Girls

Modifié par RageGT, 28 mai 2010 - 02:21 .

[ckriley]

Well, only because I'm stubborn and wanted to give it a bit more time, I played it some more with the same elven spellweaver. I picked up another party member, the rogue Dranor, and the DPS helped. I manage to complete all the quests in Avestrue and have now moved on to Ferdok. Even survived a nasty encounter with a pack of wolves on the way.



I'm still not sold on the game, because I still die in two shots if anything gets close to me. The good news is, in Ferdok I met my first taskmaster (like a class trainer) who offered a bunch of new spells for me. Chiefly, some spells that offer good CC that will actually keep mobs away from me or slow them down. This will be critical for me. Not sure if I'm gonna finish the game or not, but I at least wanted to give it a little more time.



And for what it's worth, it's a beautiful game. Here's some screenshots I took in Avestrue.



Avestrue stream

Avestrue village

Avestrue fields



And the music is great too. Adds a lot of immersion to the environment. There's also TONS of lore everywhere. Especially in Ferdok. If you're a geek like me, you'll appreciate all the books and stuff you can read. I enjoy that about RPGs (I'm in no rush when I play these types of games, and like reading and exploring) and I can always tell how much care a developer has put into an RPG by the amount of books and scrolls you can find here and there in the world, and how much detail is involved in each one.



Again, I'm not sure if I'm gonna play this game because it might be a bit too hardcore for me, but there are things about the game I can and have tipped my hat to.

[HoonDing]

Elves start with low constitution and 22-26 HP and are tricky to play in the beginning. I played with an Elven ranger and had 45 HP or so at the end (that's including a Ring of life that gives +10 HP). But the thing is with 'Fastness of Body' spell your Elf will have excellent physical protection; combined with leather armour it'll be even better than someone in heavy armour. Also, 'Move as Lightning' is excellent spell to increase damage & dodge value. The unique Elven spell 'Ice cold warrior' is game breakingly powerful.

But foremost, have your mage also learn at least one combat skill... Elves all come with excellent value in ranged combat, so develop that. Ranged combat is ridiculously powerful in the game (marksman/master marksman), dropping even Ogres as flies later on.

Essential spells are 'Lightning find you' & 'Plumbumbarum' to debuff enemies, 'Helpful Paw' for Elves ('Skeletarius' for human mages). 'Sleep' and especially 'Paralysis' are best for crowd control.

Best damage spell overall is 'Corpofrigo', which also debuffs the enemy, and the 'Culminatio' spell. Other damage spells use too much AE to be useful (although for instance for a healing mage with a certain hat & rob, AE regeneration is so fast that this isn't an issue).

P.S.: BioWare aficionados might perhaps be interested to know that the prequel features some limited 'romance': See here

[hexaligned]

ckriley wrote...

Well, only because I'm stubborn and wanted to give it a bit more time, I played it some more with the same elven spellweaver. I picked up another party member, the rogue Dranor, and the DPS helped. I manage to complete all the quests in Avestrue and have now moved on to Ferdok. Even survived a nasty encounter with a pack of wolves on the way.

I'm still not sold on the game, because I still die in two shots if anything gets close to me. The good news is, in Ferdok I met my first taskmaster (like a class trainer) who offered a bunch of new spells for me. Chiefly, some spells that offer good CC that will actually keep mobs away from me or slow them down. This will be critical for me. Not sure if I'm gonna finish the game or not, but I at least wanted to give it a little more time.

And for what it's worth, it's a beautiful game. Here's some screenshots I took in Avestrue.

Avestrue stream
Avestrue village
Avestrue fields

And the music is great too. Adds a lot of immersion to the environment. There's also TONS of lore everywhere. Especially in Ferdok. If you're a geek like me, you'll appreciate all the books and stuff you can read. I enjoy that about RPGs (I'm in no rush when I play these types of games, and like reading and exploring) and I can always tell how much care a developer has put into an RPG by the amount of books and scrolls you can find here and there in the world, and how much detail is involved in each one.

Again, I'm not sure if I'm gonna play this game because it might be a bit too hardcore for me, but there are things about the game I can and have tipped my hat to.

Outright mages are pretty bad in the game.  I'd suggest going with an elven warrior they get almost all of the spells mages can get.  They also get the best ones, which are the buff spells.  I think you will enjoy it a lot more. (I did at least)  Although my little Arab necromancer was pretty fun I guess.

Modifié par relhart, 28 mai 2010 - 10:29 .

[DragonRageGT]

Is "River of Time" out in the German version? Will they be able to release the english one? Is that Gladys? I want that!!! =}



I'm glad for you, Ckriley. You might find yourself hooked as the game goes on... or not... but at least you're giving it a chance before trashing it for its first 30 minutes. And I too take my time with games. Like making these 60 hours games actually giving me 100 hrs fun each run, except my one fast run in DA:O with my first char reborn while preparing for Awakening who took only 60 hours to finish Origins.



I must say that I was reluctant to change my initial party formation but I decided to give the Elven Spellweaver a chance and I'm impressed. She's like an Arcane Archer with more spells! Now I have a powergirls party. But I agree with gamebanshee again on what they say about companions. Heck, I even hired one for 200 ducats only to strip him of his amazing leather armor and now Gladys wears it (as seen at the end of the video I linked). And It's suitable for a mage too.



Nice pics, btw. The high texture pack is something that DA:O could definitely have too.

[TM13h]

RageGT wrote...

Is "River of Time" out in the German version? Will they be able to release the english one? Is that Gladys? I want that!!! =}

It's out since March, if I remember correctly. There has been an official post in the German forums stating that both the English version of River of Time and the German and English versions of the addon will not be afflicted by the bankruptcy.

[gingerbill]

errr comparing drakensang and DAO is a bit silly in my eyes , DAO is miles ahead in every aspect . I completed drakensang and it was ok but hardly a classic. Wooden acting , awful voice acting , boring characters , poor RPG system behind the surface . It's like comparing a half decent straight to DVD fantasy film with LOTR trilogy.

[DragonRageGT]

gingerbill wrote...

errr comparing drakensang and DAO is a bit silly in my eyes , DAO is miles ahead in every aspect . I completed drakensang and it was ok but hardly a classic. Wooden acting , awful voice acting , boring characters , poor RPG system behind the surface . It's like comparing a half decent straight to DVD fantasy film with LOTR trilogy.

Can't please everybody, I'm sure. But it is still a great game for those who somehow liked it. And I find many similarities between Drakensang and Dragon Age besides the obvious Dragon theme.

Now, one thing that no game can claim is to come even close to any of those great medieval movies or a fantasy like LotR, simply because the have NO HORSES. One can say whatever about Oblivion but at least it was a hell of a fun time to ride my black assassin horse. I could run a lot faster on foot with the amazing speed attributes my level 50+ have but I always chose to use the horse. No wonder the running pace in Drakensang, Dragon Age or any game really, sucks, even with boots of haste. Horses FTW!

[Loerwyn]

Horses FTL. I'm glad they don't show up in every fantasy series, as it's a bit annoying. It makes no sense that horses will always appear! But Horses do exist in Dragon Age... Just not in the game.



Anyways. Radon Labs has been acquired, and Drakensang 3 should be out in Germany next year. Buuuuuuut international publishing, I believe, is still being done by dtp. FTL.

[Seagloom]

Yay on the acquisition news! I was afraid they were going under for keeps. Hopefully this new publisher won't want to meddle as much in the creation process. The series has potential.