48 réponses à ce sujet

[ajayatfringefx]

Mapping squad powers and lining up shots on the 360 are sometimes frustrating. Hacking or bypassing is also another issue (not as big). Does any one else find this annoying?

[Arhka]

No, you just need to remember where stuff is on the wheel. Once you get it, you can be pretty fast with the wheel. Just takes time.

[MarshalMeLee]

I tried playing ME2 on my brother's Xbox 360 and I had a heck of a time. But I believe it's just because I wasn't acclimated to it at all. Hacking also seemed really slow...again, maybe it's just due to lack of exposure.

I felt like such a doofus pinging objectives in combat and pressing all sorts of buttons, and of course my brother didn't help, saying "And you record ME2 videos?" I then made fun of his Vanguard who didn't have any points in Charge, but he continues on, oblivious.

Older brothers are no help. I will have my revenge.

Modifié par MarshalMeLee, 18 juillet 2010 - 03:22 .

[Arhka]

Yeah, transitions are always awkward.

[rabidhanar]

The only problem I have with 360 ME2 is aiming, it is not nearly as precise as a mouse.



While shortcuts can also have problems, you can at least get a decent amount of them available.

[Pacifien]

I attempted to get a more fluid playstyle on the 360 with my Adept playthrough, but never could get aiming and button pushing quite right. Not to mention being limited to 3 hotkeys for Shepard and 1 hotkey each for the squadmates. The D-pad also didn't always awknowledge my instructions to use a squadmate power versus directing them to cover.

If it requires aim, I have to use the wheel. It it's something like Overload, Reave, or activating Cloak, the hotkey buttons work well enough. The price I pay for going with the 360 version, but that's what happens to an impatient person like me when Bioware releases ME1 on the console a year before the PC.

[Mx_CN3]

An entire 3 power binds and only 1 for each squadmate which doubles as a move order. It doesn't make it "harder," just means more pausing - a painful thing for me. I had no problems with aiming really. It's technically faster on a PC, but I never really seemed to have trouble.

[NICKjnp]

Pacifien wrote...

I attempted to get a more fluid playstyle on the 360 with my Adept playthrough, but never could get aiming and button pushing quite right. Not to mention being limited to 3 hotkeys for Shepard and 1 hotkey each for the squadmates. The D-pad also didn't always awknowledge my instructions to use a squadmate power versus directing them to cover.
If it requires aim, I have to use the wheel. It it's something like Overload, Reave, or activating Cloak, the hotkey buttons work well enough. The price I pay for going with the 360 version, but that's what happens to an impatient person like me when Bioware releases ME1 on the console a year before the PC.

You do know that they didn't decide to bring ME1 to the PC until three months before it was released on the 360 right?  As for aiming... I do fine.  Some powers I would prefer to use the power wheel to activate them anywase.  The only ones I prefer to hotkey are warp and throw for adepts and pull field and reave for vanguard.  The D-pad does suck though... but I'm fast with the power wheel.... so I don't use the D-pad all that often.

[Kronner]

Doesn't xbox have auto-aim or something?

[Tlazolteotl]

Kronner wrote...

Doesn't xbox have auto-aim or something?

All console shooters have aim assistance. In this case, it's more of a "center on target when looking down the sights" thing.

Apparently it relocates the crosshairs to the center mass or somesuch, and always to the nearest foe near the center of the screen, which can sometimes wreak havoc with aiming.

All I gotta say is, most console shooters are weaksauce, simply by virtue of not using a precise instrument such as a mouse.
Which begs the question ... is it possible to play ME2 with a lightgun?

[homestyle]

they definitely designed the game around the console.



the hacking where you match identical pieces takes like 3 seconds on the PC. You're not even 25% through with the time by the time you complete the hack.

[Bozorgmehr]

I don't understand why you can't play with a mouse-keyboard on consoles - when they make that possible I get one.

[Tlazolteotl]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

I don't understand why you can't play with a mouse-keyboard on consoles - when they make that possible I get one.

You can attach a keyboard+mouse to an xbox 360.
However, since the games aren't coded for it, you gotta load a program to translate the mouse movements for you. That, and you'll still be stuck with aim assistance and limited hotkeys ... 'cos at the end of the day, you're still using the keyboard+mouse to emulate a controller.

But, on the point of the reason why .. it's very simple.
Consoles are meant to be played in front of your TV, while sitting on your couch. I.e. not at a desk.
Therefore, by definition, console = casual.

There are exceptions to this, however ...
Most notable is one title that I'm going to have to get: Rock Band 3.
The plastic instruments are going to get so complicated that if you play the songs on expert pro mode, you're almost playing the real songs. That is, every note (in a limited # of frets or octaves) just like on a real guitar, or keyboard, or drum kit.
You can apparently even plug in midi versions of real instruments and use those instead.

Me, I'm good with violin and fretless bass, but mediocre with guitar and keys.
If pro mode is really good enough to teach real instrument skills, I'm there.

Looking further forwards, I'm hoping the next gen of console will have high speed interface (maybe USB 3.0, which is over 10x the speed of USB 2.0), and multiple screen support.
That way, the precision of the peripherals will be much greater.
And the scalibility won't equal much more work for game developers. I mean having 4 screens at 1080p still means the models and textures within each screen will be equivalent to this gen's ...
Imagine if that's where it's at: full body motion sensor with a screen in every direction.
That would be sweet.

[JaegerBane]

I've always felt using a gamepad on a game like this is a bit like trying to play the game while drunk - your movements aren't fluid, you're constantly fighting to get timings just right, it's naff.



I agree, I hope consoles get with the program and stop trying to use gamepads in situations they were never intended for. They're great for racing and beat'em ups, but games this complex, it's just silly.



I can only imagine using a damn pad for something like Dragon Age...

[Bozorgmehr]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

You can attach a keyboard+mouse to an xbox 360.
However, since the games aren't coded for it, you gotta load a program to translate the mouse movements for you. That, and you'll still be stuck with aim assistance and limited hotkeys ... 'cos at the end of the day, you're still using the keyboard+mouse to emulate a controller.

But, on the point of the reason why .. it's very simple.
Consoles are meant to be played in front of your TV, while sitting on your couch. I.e. not at a desk.
Therefore, by definition, console = casual.

There are exceptions to this, however ...
Most notable is one title that I'm going to have to get: Rock Band 3.
The plastic instruments are going to get so complicated that if you play the songs on expert pro mode, you're almost playing the real songs. That is, every note (in a limited # of frets or octaves) just like on a real guitar, or keyboard, or drum kit.
You can apparently even plug in midi versions of real instruments and use those instead.

Me, I'm good with violin and fretless bass, but mediocre with guitar and keys.
If pro mode is really good enough to teach real instrument skills, I'm there.

Looking further forwards, I'm hoping the next gen of console will have high speed interface (maybe USB 3.0, which is over 10x the speed of USB 2.0), and multiple screen support.
That way, the precision of the peripherals will be much greater.
And the scalibility won't equal much more work for game developers. I mean having 4 screens at 1080p still means the models and textures within each screen will be equivalent to this gen's ...
Imagine if that's where it's at: full body motion sensor with a screen in every direction.
That would be sweet.

I know you can use mouse & keyboard on consoles but they don't work like on pc (like you said). It shouldn't be hard to add the UI used at the pc version on a console. That way people playing sitting on a couch can use the gamepad and those who prefer to play with mouse and keyboard can put themselves behind their desk - everybody happy

JaegerBane wrote...

I've always felt using a gamepad on a
game like this is a bit like trying to play the game while drunk - your
movements aren't fluid, you're constantly fighting to get timings just
right, it's naff.

I agree, I hope consoles get with the program
and stop trying to use gamepads in situations they were never intended
for. They're great for racing and beat'em ups, but games this complex,
it's just silly.

I can only imagine using a damn pad for
something like Dragon Age...

I'm worried that this won't happen soon. If you listen to the PS3 and Xbox development / marketing gurus they're saying that a gamepad is too complicated and that those motion controllers are the future. Don't get my wrong, I do love the Wiimote playing tennis with some friends, but they're pathetic in the accuracy department. Those things cannot be used properly when games are more complex. I also don't see why this should be an issue. Casual gamers can use (motioncontrolled) gamepads and serious gamers should be allowed to plug in their mouse and keyboard.

[Tlazolteotl]

This reminds me of when I was in an independent game store recently, which used to be the best place in the whole city for PC games.

Apparently, as a PC gamer, I'm a dying breed ... I went into a 10 minute rant about how consoles are ruining competitive gaming ... where 'experts' in 'shooters' such as call of duty games in the US think they have skills when shooting a foot off to the side with an AK will score you a kill.

I mean counterstrike may be getting dated, but when a game is all about pointing and shooting, being accurate should be a requirement.

North America has the biggest market, and consequently games are being pushed in the direction of ... modern warfare 2. Seriously, that game sold more copies than big macs but those 'hardcore' gamers don't seem to understand that it's one of the biggest jokes in shooter history. A lot like big macs as a food, actually.

[NICKjnp]

well... thanks for attempting to turn this into a flamewar

[Tlazolteotl]

Nothing I say is untrue.

If those fools on consoles think they're serious gamers, they're simply wrong.

Admittedly, the super street fighter 4 scene on xbox is actually very good, but exceptions don't prove a rule.

Edit: Gaargh. You know what I mean about exceptions. English 6th language.

Modifié par Tlazolteotl, 19 juillet 2010 - 11:37 .

[ShadowPlay 14]

Many people who claim to have 'skills' usually mean that they have 'skills' on the console they play on. For example, if someone who plays MW2 on the 360 claims their amazing, they may only be implying that their 'amazing' at the 360 version. Very few people could claim to be amazing at a certain game, on every console/PC it was released on. Plus, these people are usually about 9 years old anyway, so it doesn't matter 

Modifié par ShadowPlay 14, 20 juillet 2010 - 12:09 .

[Tlazolteotl]

Well, fair point ... however, my point isn't about that.

It's about the console culture in the US of everybody owns one (mainly 'cos it's cheaper than PC and people want a good TV anyway), consequently pushing the direction of game developing into favouring consoles.

However, at the end of the day, PC is a far superior platform. From precision controls to raw power that has far outstripped the PS3 (ok, fair enough it's really not cheap to build good gaming PCs), and next to no games are being developed for it.

Yes, chase the money, gaming is a business after all. But at the end of the day, consoles and the game written for their control schemes, are simply the 'average gamer's' choice.

Although, I guess it's a good thing that people are actually playing games and keeping it all viable. After all, the government may bail out automobile companies that make financially impractical decisions, but it's not gonna happen for game developers.

[ShadowPlay 14]

I agree on most of these points (despite being a 360 owner myself), and the only thing I can possibly say is that who knows? Maybe consoles will eventually outplay the PC. With companies looking at consoles more than the PC, it could happen.



But I doubt it.

[Tlazolteotl]

Consoles need more precise controls.

That is all.

I mean super street fighter 4 is great on an xbox because ... 2D fighting games are designed to be played on a digital 8-directional stick and several buttons.

The mechanics in the game is very complex from all the timings and interactions between those controls, but it's still a 2D fighting game. It's not trying to do something the control scheme isn't able to handle.

And still, most high level players plug in an arcade stick instead of using the control pad. Because .. they like having more precise controls.

I mean, it's not rocketscience to create a simplified 10-or-so-button keyboard/mouse combo you can put in your lap (though the ergonomics may need some work). That's all it would take for console shooters to be .. well .. not a joke.

[Pacifien]

If you want to turn this into a console versus pc argument, I'll bring up the death of any non-combat genre due to the market concentrating on games specific to the console market. But who gives a **** really.

[MarshalMeLee]

Pacifien wrote...
But who gives a **** really.

[Tlazolteotl]

Well, the future of gaming matters to people involved in the industry ...

Me, I invest a lot of cash in artificial intelligence research, and gaming is one industry wherein the research may have some sort of return.

Also, I lived for over 3 years from winnings playing poker, while also competing in everything from scrabble to fencing.

Maybe it's due to my roots, but I want everything to improve over time. From legal systems to economics to agriculture, people shouldn't aspire to be mediocre.

This console-centric state of affairs is just that. People settling for something 'good enough to kill a few hours.'

It's a symptom of a larger problem. Where most people don't give a **** about sending up an off-earth colony, all I gotta say is, "how is it even acceptable that we have no plans to do so?"