172 réponses à ce sujet

[ankuu]

Grommash94 wrote...

CoM Solaufein wrote...

DA2 = Mass Effect with Swords.
A shame really, DA was such a good game that they want to kill the series with the second release.

Yes because having a few of the same mechanics makes something the same game. 'claps'

I mean, your concern is appreciated, sure, but do you really have to just jump to conclusions so quickly?

Dang i would like to know that too!

Why does everyone complain when we don't know almost anything...

[K3NN3H]

i like

[Fraevar]

Well the concern is warranted.

What we've seen so far is the developers constantly talking about taking systems and other design notions from Mass Effect and now applying them to DA2 - in some cases they're seemingly bashing DA:O in the process.

The thing is - quite a bit of us who are concerned and who loved DA:O , don't really like Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2, or at the very least we like the two series for different reasons. In my case, I do worry when I see them going on and on about how awesome ME2 is and how they want to suddenly put that into DA2, because I didn't think ME2 was that good in the areas that I felt made DA:O great: Plot, story and character development. ME2 wasted so much potential in all those areas in favor of liniar "cinematic" design and an excessive amount of action sequences. I liked DA:O for its depth, and that is why I'm not thrilled to see the constant ME/ME2 buzzwords cropping up whenever anyone from BioWare talks about DA2.

Because the last time they used those buzzwords they shipped a game that I felt was a pale shadow of what it could have been and a game that ultimately wasn't as enjoyable as either its own predecessor or games BioWare had done beforehand (NWN, KotOR, DA:O).

Modifié par Delerius_Jedi, 18 juillet 2010 - 12:41 .

[joriandrake]

Grommash94 wrote...

CoM Solaufein wrote...

DA2 = Mass Effect with Swords.
A shame really, DA was such a good game that they want to kill the series with the second release.

Yes because having a few of the same mechanics makes something the same game. 'claps'

I mean, your concern is appreciated, sure, but do you really have to just jump to conclusions so quickly?

ah, aaaand Here come the DRUMS!

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par joriandrake, 18 juillet 2010 - 12:43 .

[Brockololly]

Sure, some people may want more of the same but if you're going to numerically title the sequel as Dragon Age 2, that implies a certain amount of continuity as well. Not just story continuity, but continuity in the visual style, gameplay and presentation. Of course BioWare can do whatever they want with DA2 but its not an unreasonable thing to have a good number of people disappointed when they're hearing how DA2 is borrowing so much from ME2 and not forging a path for itself, using Origins as its foundation.

Maybe once gameplay is released we'll realize that DA2 is a unique beast that isn't mimicking ME2, but given all of the marketing hype released this far and the inrterviews in GI, the impression is certainly evident that DA2 will be more like Mass Effect with Swords than Origins.

Modifié par Brockololly, 18 juillet 2010 - 12:56 .

[Bobad]

scyphozoa wrote...

I wrote this up in another thread but wanted to share it outside of that thread,

I think people suffer from an illusion of permanence. This is basically the most common and predictable reaction to any sequel. It happened with Mass Effect, its happens with every bit of film, television, literature, games and more. Any time you have a fan base of a franchise that gets a sequel or another installment, it is always a painful issue for some fans to accept that the sequel is not just a reskin of the original product they fell in love with.

As human beings, please, stop being so predictable. Let musicians make the music they want. Let film directors make the films they want. And let Bioware make the games they want. Your input is valid, but the slogan "if its not broke, don't fix it" doesn't apply to art. Art always has to grow and evolve and video games are  art.

If you want the 80 hour experience of DAO, its not going anywhere, but please stop begging for a reskin of the same experience. 

Well this isn't word for word exactly what I expected you to say, therefore I'm not buying it......

[bjdbwea]

scyphozoa wrote...

As human beings, please, stop being so predictable. Let musicians make the music they want. Let film directors make the films they want. And let Bioware make the games they want. Your input is valid, but the slogan "if its not broke, don't fix it" doesn't apply to art. Art always has to grow and evolve and video games are  art.

Sure. They do what they want and I'll keep my money. Everyone happy. No? Art, meet capitalism.

So much for your argument. But of course BioWare/EA know full well that some people will not buy the game, but figure that this will be made up for by the mainstream they're targeting with the changes. It doesn't seem to really have worked out with ME 2, but apparently they're going to try again.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 18 juillet 2010 - 01:22 .

[Tirigon]

scyphozoa wrote...

Your input is valid, but the slogan "if its not broke, don't fix it" doesn't apply to art. Art always has to grow and evolve and video games are  art.

True.  But NOT in a continuation. If a developer wants to make a new game, they should make a NEW game. A sequel should stay true to the predecessor.

It is perfectly ok if BioWare makes games that are different from Dragon Age - in fact, I would love if they´d make a few FPS games.

But please don´t call it DA2 then. DA2 should be DAO with a continued story and a few slight improvements, not a vaguely similar fantasy game.
That´s why it´s called Dragon Age 2, after all, and has not a completely new title.

[MaxQuartiroli]

FedericoV wrote...

I lurk other smaller community about DA:O than the official boards, and generally the tone and the opinions about the sequel are more open minded, positive and rational even when strongly critical.

This is true.. I write in two of the biggest italian RPG forum, followed by hundreds of users, and the reaction to all the incoming news is absolutely positive.. There aren't many complains and also people who hoped for a direct sequel are disposed to wait for the game before give an opinion.. 

Many people here are enthusastic and who is not enthusiastic is at least curious about these changes, but no one is sad or desperate like many players here..

[jennamarae]

scyphozoa wrote...

Let musicians make the music they want. Let film directors make the films they want. And let Bioware make the games they want. Your input is valid, but the slogan "if its not broke, don't fix it" doesn't apply to art. Art always has to grow and evolve and video games are  art.

Ever notice how a lot of musicians make the music they want and people stop buying it after the first album? Or maybe how film directors make the films they want and people wait for it to come out on disc so they can rent it instead of paying $20 for a to the movie theater? There's a reason for that. When musicians and film directors make what they want with no concern for how fans will feel about their changes or what fans would like to see, they lose those fans. There'll be die-hards who'll buy the CD or go on opening night at the theater anyway, but a lot of people will stop paying if they don't like the changes. Next thing you know that musician or film director is out of work and someone new is taking their place. So yes, 'if it's not broke don't fix it' does apply to art if the artist wants people to continue paying for their work.

It works the same for games. Bioware is free to do as they like when it comes to making games. Just as I'm free to not hand over any money for said games if I don't like the direction they've taken it or the changes they've made. So far what they've released isn't just a minor change. It'd be like in LOTR if the second movie had dropped the storyline and instead they told the story of Tommy the Tinker and his perspective of the the events of the first movie. Or if Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back had been about Storm Trooper #5's perspective of the events of the first movie. Sure those movies could have been made like that, but do you honestly think anyone would have paid to see them? I don't.

[joriandrake]

movie director making what he wants while ignoring fans = Uwe Boll

[MoSa09]

ankuu wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

CoM Solaufein wrote...

DA2 = Mass Effect with Swords.
A shame really, DA was such a good game that they want to kill the series with the second release.

Yes because having a few of the same mechanics makes something the same game. 'claps'

I mean, your concern is appreciated, sure, but do you really have to just jump to conclusions so quickly?

Dang i would like to know that too!

Why does everyone complain when we don't know almost anything...

So when do you guys think it's exactly legitimate to complain? Having heard only few news and concluding it will be just fine in the end is just jumping to conclusions either.

From what we've hard so far, it does allow the conclusion that DA 2 is becoming somewhat like Mass Effect. At the same time, it also allows the conclusion that they're just borrowing a few parts and DA 2 will not look much alike Mass Effect.

If one conclusion is valid, given the current information, so is the other. So please get off your high moral ground and tell people to stop reaching negative conclusions as we just don't know enough. Either we don't know enough just yet, than any kind of conclusion about how the game will be is forbidden. Or we do know enough to build an opinion, than both kinds of opinion are allowed.

I agree, i don't understand those guys gettin all rude and accusing BW of failing them and all of this.  But i don't get those guys jumping to defend BW, celebrating each dev post "you guys are so awesome, don't mind the others we LOVE you no matter what" and harassing anyone who complains either. I am not saying anyone i quoted or who posted here is part of one of the two groups, so take no offence please. Why can't we all keep it civil and as long as one has a valid and reasonable opinion, let it be positive or negative, just accept each other and debate your point without creating threads "i don't get those guys" from both points of view?

Modifié par MoSa09, 18 juillet 2010 - 02:03 .

[Oldenglishcdr]

Brockololly wrote...

Sure, some people may want more of the same but if you're going to numerically title the sequel as Dragon Age 2, that implies a certain amount of continuity as well. Not just story continuity, but continuity in the visual style, gameplay and presentation. Of course BioWare can do whatever they want with DA2 but its not an unreasonable thing to have a good number of people disappointed when they're hearing how DA2 is borrowing so much from ME2 and not forging a path for itself, using Origins as its foundation.

Maybe once gameplay is released we'll realize that DA2 is a unique beast that isn't mimicking ME2, but given all of the marketing hype released this far and the inrterviews in GI, the impression is certainly evident that DA2 will be more like Mass Effect with Swords than Origins.

Given the fact that their appears to be a lot of lore associated with DA and has a lot of potential for future titles, maybe Bioware should have named DA something like DA Legends, or DA Tales for example. This way the path is open for alternative stories with DA lore in mind but wouldn't be a sequel as such, ala Zelda series.

Also peoples favourite characters could also make cameo appearances, (unless their dead of course) in future titles, or even people associated with our favourite characters.

I also understand the "if it aint broke don't fix it" argument, and why not just give the fans more of the same, but Bioware have obviously decided as good as we think DAO is, things can still be improved from lessons learned. Whether this is the right decision or not only time will tell, however I'm willing to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt and realise as good as DAO is, I'm not naive to think that the DAO way is the only way or best way when it comes to RPGs in particular.

[Tirigon]

jennamarae wrote...

Ever notice how a lot of musicians make the music they want and people stop buying it after the first album? Or maybe how film directors make the films they want and people wait for it to come out on disc so they can rent it instead of paying $20 for a to the movie theater? There's a reason for that. When musicians and film directors make what they want with no concern for how fans will feel about their changes or what fans would like to see, they lose those fans.

The best music is made by people who do what they want and tell the critics to lick their asses because they give a damn whether or not someone likes what they do or not.

However, that´s why the best music is never found in the charts.

BioWare are not artists who don´t care for the public reaction. Rather the contrary, BioWare tries to appeal to as many people as possible.

This is the reason why many people expect DA2 to suck. Stuff that tries to appeal to the masses usually sucks because the majority of humanity is stupid.

[MaxQuartiroli]

slimgrin wrote...

I'm ok with the changes, but I can honestly understand why some are not thrilled with the direction Bioware is taking the game. Its looking more like a new IP than a sequel.

What I don't understand is the reason why many players are so surprised about these changes..like if BW were cheating them... (I'm not refering specifically to you, I quoted your post just because it fits with my thought)
They wrote many posts, months ago, trying to explain to people what kind of project they had in their mind with Dragon Age, they never lied, or tried to hide anything
They always said us that "while Mass Effect was a story based on the adventures of a main character/hero Dragon Age was the story of an entire world, based on many different characters and many different stories"
It isn't a mistery at all, and they cannot be accountable now  to all people who didn't read what they said, or perhaps read it but didn't believe what they said
This was the project from the beginning and this is the project they are going to follow. Players are free to embrace this project or to stop to play it, but they won't change it just because someone didn't understand how the game was intended to be from the beginning.

[Abispa]

I think most of the negative vibes are caused by people who want to keep using their characters and cast from the first game. I understand the feeling, but I believe DA2 has a good chance of being a good to great game. Perhaps Bioware and EA should view the complaints as an opportunity to continue creating good DLCs for the first game.

[Sol Nox]

People have it all wrong. Dragon Age is never going to be a fantasy remake of Mass Effect. Bioware already made ME - twice (plus once in the future) - so theories that they're trying to appeal to a wider market by making more of the same are nonsensical. (Like a restaurant offering two BLTs to try and expand their menu.)

No, DA's going to be more like Need for Speed.

Modifié par ColeMR, 18 juillet 2010 - 02:13 .

[bjdbwea]

Tirigon wrote...

Stuff that tries to appeal to the masses usually sucks because the majority of humanity is stupid.

That's... very blunt. Unfortunately, there's some truth to it.

[Tirigon]

ColeMR wrote...

People have it all wrong. Dragon Age is never going to be a fantasy remake of Mass Effect. Bioware already made ME - twice (plus once in the future) - so theories that they're trying to appeal to a wider market by making more of the same are nonsensical. (Like a restaurant offering two BLTs to try and expand their menu.)

Lolz at the bolded. Call of Duty is the same game at least 6 times, maybe even more, and COD MW2 is still one of the best-selling games ever.

[jennamarae]

Tirigon wrote...

The best music is made by people who do what they want and tell the critics to lick their asses because they give a damn whether or not someone likes what they do or not.

I was talking about consumers, not critics. I'm convinced the critics (as in people who get paid to criticize) wouldn't know their rear-end from a hole in the ground with a map and a homing beacon.

BioWare are not artists who don´t care for the public reaction. Rather the contrary, BioWare tries to appeal to as many people as possible.

I'm not so certain that they are. It seems more like they're trying to appeal to more people without any concern for whether or not they retain the existing fans.

This is the reason why many people expect DA2 to suck. Stuff that tries to appeal to the masses usually sucks because the majority of humanity is stupid.

Agreed. Even though few details have been released, I'm fairly certain DA2 is going to seem like a watered-down game when compared to DAO, just like ME2 does compared to ME. I played ME2 first, and was amazed at how much more ME seemed to have to it. I truly am concerned about how DA2 is going to turn out, but I'm trying to withhold judgment. Keyword there is trying..

[Noir201]

Tirigon wrote...

This is the reason why many people expect DA2 to suck. Stuff that tries to appeal to the masses usually sucks because the majority of humanity is stupid.

It's why games like World of Warcraft do so well and make so much money, and for alot of video game companys, envy that model and try to copy it, alot of the problems from my point of view, is the awfull way GI have presented the Dragon age 2 info and news, it's very crass to be blunt, yes some small fansites will be more open minded, i try to keep a open mind on DA2, but when you have so many bad blog/review sites, that treat this type of info as "just something else to report on" like tbh GI have done, then reactions wouldn't be good.

But thats the age we live in now.

[Mr.Whomp]

Going through the GI information on DA 2 reminded me why I stopped playing/buying Rainbow Six (and C&C) games. It strayed away from the main reason I played the game, the realism and tactics. They decided to move the game to a more arcade gameplay to expand the audience but lost a ton of the original fans of the game along the way. If I want a run and gun shooter I can get that somewhere else. When I bought a Rainbow Six game I was expecting certain features to be there.



I am getting the same feelings about DA2, will the things I love about the game still be intact? I can understand branching out and modernizing the game but not if it totally alienates features of the original game most of your fans fell in love with. If the game does deviate from its roots drastically and is still successful, then in the end Bioware did what was the best for them I think.



I can understand fans for being negative (no need for hostility though), cause I myself still haven't read a thing that made me gush about this game and I was mighty excited when I first saw DA2 announced.