172 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidney]

Tirigon wrote...
The best music is made by people who do what they want and tell the critics to lick their asses because they give a damn whether or not someone likes what they do or not.

This is the reason why many people expect DA2 to suck. Stuff that tries to appeal to the masses usually sucks because the majority of humanity is stupid.

So wait, I missed it when the Beatles sucked. I mean they only sold a gazillion records right? Elvis, bag of suck because he sold a record right? Would The National (or pick your current favorite band that had sold less than 50,000 discs) suddenly start to suck if they sold a million albums?

Bioshock sold a crap load of copies and it sure as heck was deeper than COD and used an art style most folk couldn't name if they were given the first 6 letters in the term. Rock Band sold a ton of copies with "The Beatles" because it gave people a deeper gaming experience.  Tossing games like Red Dead, GTAIV and Batman that all have a lot more story and depth to them than COD and it is fairly obvious that depth and popularity aren't impossible to co-exist. Other than your elitist pretenses your statement isn't true.

What people fear is that DA2 won't just be BG2 again and again and again because they stopped their gaming development with that game.

[Terror_K]

DA2 looks so different from the original that it makes me sick. What's the point in becoming a fan of something when those behind it will just change it on you so readily for no real good reason? The whole DA universe and IP has been turned on its head now and lost its identity.



I'm just glad I wasn't as invested in the Dragon Age universe as I was in the Mass Effect one. If Mass Effect 3 came along and suddenly we had a pure shooter and the alien races were all completely redesigned because "salarians look too much like the Asgard from Stargate, and the asari resemble female Twi'leks from Star Wars too much" etc. I'd throw a fit. I'd sell all the ME stuff I owned (books, comics, lithographs, soundtracks, art books, clothing, etc.) cancel my pre-order on the next novel and the upcoming figurines and never look at another Mass Effect product again.

[Cainne Chapel]

I get people getting upset that a sequel my change the dynamic set forth in the first game.



But i remain pleasantly optimistic, as I've NEVER played a BW game I have not liked. In fact, in the case of ME2, I've played that game far more than I've played ME1 (or about equal in terms of overall time, if we're judging hour by hour, but I've played ME2 with far more variation).



Despite ME2 being a somewhat different beast than ME1, I still enjoyed it very much (and I enjoyed ME1 to the point where people thought I had a problem).



So I look forward to DA2, Does it look different than DA:O, Yes, but that doesnt mean it wont be good. Once again, BW has yet to let me down in the game enjoyment arena.

[Legbiter]

Happens with every Bioware release. Emo teens will be emo teens.

[Chairon de Celeste]

happens when backfiring pr campaigns raise trolls and firestarters.

A campaign phase wich leaves that many potential customers with a feelling of loss
instead of making them drool for their new toy can't be good..

Edit:
And don't get me wrong - I look forward to playing da2.

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 18 juillet 2010 - 03:20 .

[Tirigon]

Sidney wrote...

So wait, I missed it when the Beatles sucked. I mean they only sold a gazillion records right? Elvis, bag of suck because he sold a record right? Would The National (or pick your current favorite band that had sold less than 50,000 discs) suddenly start to suck if they sold a million albums?

The Beatles did what they wanted, and so did Elvis. Success doesn´t make a band / artist bad (unless you´re a TRVE NORSK BLACK METALER that is), if it comes because people happen to like what you do. However, making stuff ONLY to have success and not because it´s YOUR music sucks. There is nothing better for an artist than to be liked and successful. But this should come because people like what you did anyways, not because you changed yourself to fulfill their wishes.

Bioshock sold a crap load of copies and it sure as heck was deeper than COD and used an art style most folk couldn't name if they were given the first 6 letters in the term. Rock Band sold a ton of copies with "The Beatles" because it gave people a deeper gaming experience.  Tossing games like Red Dead, GTAIV and Batman that all have a lot more story and depth to them than COD and it is fairly obvious that depth and popularity aren't impossible to co-exist. Other than your elitist pretenses your statement isn't true.

BioShock sucked, I hate this game...
Can´t say much about the others, haven´t played them. Though what I hear about GTA makes me wish not to change that:sick:   Batman has a boring story, at least if it´s based on the movies. I saw one once and I didn´t like it at all.

What people fear is that DA2 won't just be BG2 again and again and again because they stopped their gaming development with that game.

Never played BG2..........

[FlyinElk212]

OP- You write a well-thought out post, but your sentiment's a bit naive. Ultimately, Bioware must create a game FOR their fans; a game that they believe will sell well in this economy: reskin or not.

Clearly, Bioware feels that "the sequel to Dragon Age" will hold enough weight to merit the changes in the gameplay. Let's see if they were right.

[Arttis]

I see DA2 as everything Fable 2 should have been.

[FedericoV]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

I lurk other smaller community about DA:O than the official boards, and generally the tone and the opinions about the sequel are more open minded, positive and rational even when strongly critical.

This is true.. I write in two of the biggest italian RPG forum, followed by hundreds of users, and the reaction to all the incoming news is absolutely positive.. There aren't many complains and also people who hoped for a direct sequel are disposed to wait for the game before give an opinion.. 

Many people here are enthusastic and who is not enthusiastic is at least curious about these changes, but no one is sad or desperate like many players here..

I'm italian too and maybe we are talking about the same community !

[Danjaru]

From what we know, there aren't that many changes to the original really, what has really changed? The story pretty much.

So I think most of this flaming is unjustified so early. The only downside I can predict really is that Hawke will, like Shepard, be an overpowering character where it seems you're playing their story instead of your story (due to voiceover, and in this case we know what Hawke ends up as, but not how he got there).

Imo, as long as you get to see your PC from Origins in some manner I'll be happy.

Modifié par Danjaru, 18 juillet 2010 - 03:52 .

[AlanC9]

Brockololly wrote...

Sure, some people may want more of the same but if you're going to numerically title the sequel as Dragon Age 2, that implies a certain amount of continuity as well. Not just story continuity, but continuity in the visual style, gameplay and presentation.

Maybe I've been at this too long, but that isn't what a numerical sequel implies to me. Ultimas used to change radically form one to the next, for instance.

[khathaway71]

Oh I think I do understand why fans are reacting negatively about the DA 2 game announcement. I think its because they are unhappy with the news and want to express their dislike to Bioware in hopes they will reconsider and fix what the fans do not like.

What I don't understand is why people are so upset with their opinions and feel the need to be so defensive and mean about it. (Thank you OP for trying to understand where we are coming from atleast)

[errant_knight]

scyphozoa wrote...

I wrote this up in another thread but wanted to share it outside of that thread,

I think people suffer from an illusion of permanence. This is basically the most common and predictable reaction to any sequel. It happened with Mass Effect, its happens with every bit of film, television, literature, games and more. Any time you have a fan base of a franchise that gets a sequel or another installment, it is always a painful issue for some fans to accept that the sequel is not just a reskin of the original product they fell in love with.

As human beings, please, stop being so predictable. Let musicians make the music they want. Let film directors make the films they want. And let Bioware make the games they want. Your input is valid, but the slogan "if its not broke, don't fix it" doesn't apply to art. Art always has to grow and evolve and video games are  art.

If you want the 80 hour experience of DAO, its not going anywhere, but please stop begging for a reskin of the same experience. 

I don't want the same game. I do want it to be a first person RPG, and not another kind of game entirely. I don't think it's too much to ask that a sequel be in the same genre as the original.

[AlanC9]

And I don't think that DA2 is going to be in a different genre. I know you think that from the other thread, but not everyone agrees. I'm certain that Bio wouldn't characterize this as a genre shift.

[MerinTB]

TheMadCat wrote...

If you want the 80 hour experience of DAO, its not going anywhere, but please stop begging for a reskin of the same experience.

Not going to be 80 hours, not even close. Game can only be so long with a voiced main character due to how fast that bill tallies up, especially if they decide on a big name for the role. Expect something close to 30-40.

Expect less.
They are cutting out a good deal of exploring and travel time, it would seem (they could be really poorly explaining their product, I suppose), with the narrative style.
The VO MC will seriously cut down on options and replayability.
The "only human, only Hawke, only one intro" will drastically cut down.

It will play probably less time than ME the way I see it.

[errant_knight]

AlanC9 wrote...

And I don't think that DA2 is going to be in a different genre. I know you think that from the other thread, but not everyone agrees. I'm certain that Bio wouldn't characterize this as a genre shift.

Even if it has no impact on gamers such as yourself, who enjoy gameplay either way, a shift from first to third person isn't insignificant. It's pretty huge--and a shift in genre. Third person games are a different type of game than first person. They just are. That's entirely different than 'does it matter to you?'

[MerinTB]

scyphozoa wrote...

I wrote this up in another thread but wanted to share it outside of that thread,

I think people suffer from an illusion of permanence. This is basically the most common and predictable reaction to any sequel. It happened with Mass Effect, its happens with every bit of film, television, literature, games and more. Any time you have a fan base of a franchise that gets a sequel or another installment, it is always a painful issue for some fans to accept that the sequel is not just a reskin of the original product they fell in love with.

As human beings, please, stop being so predictable. Let musicians make the music they want. Let film directors make the films they want. And let Bioware make the games they want. Your input is valid, but the slogan "if its not broke, don't fix it" doesn't apply to art. Art always has to grow and evolve and video games are  art.

If you want the 80 hour experience of DAO, its not going anywhere, but please stop begging for a reskin of the same experience. 

I responded to you in that thread as well.

To sum up - they aren't making art, even if art is involved and artists do work on the project.  You may as well call RPG books, newspapers, cars, and soda cans "art".

This.  Is.  Such.  A.  Cop.  Out.

BioWare is absolutely free to make whatever changes their design team wants.

And we, being the fan base, are absolutely free to tell them their decisions STINK.

End.  Of.  Story.

Stop telling people what to like or not, what to complain about or not.

[Lord_Saulot]

AlanC9 wrote...

And I don't think that DA2 is going to be in a different genre. I know you think that from the other thread, but not everyone agrees. I'm certain that Bio wouldn't characterize this as a genre shift.

Yup, everything I've seen suggests they are trying to work within the genre.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Maybe I am wrong...

I continue to think that people should try to enlarge for a moment their visions.. We have seen only the 1st piece of a big project, and we cannot really know how they figured it..I trust we'll could give a definitive judgment in a future, and maybe also 2 games won't be enough...

But if people continue to focus on a single small element of the game, either a character or a certain story, or they just refuse to move on from them, they'll never be able to enjoy the game in its entirety then... 

"A story of a world"... a world which changes depending on the choices we'll do playing many different stories with many character... in different moments and with different perspective everytime: this is the element I am focused on, and the reason why I am so excited by this game...

[MoSa09]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Maybe I am wrong...

I continue to think that people should try to enlarge for a moment their visions.. We have seen only the 1st piece of a big project, and we cannot really know how they figured it..I trust we'll could give a definitive judgment in a future, and maybe also 2 games won't be enough...

But if people continue to focus on a single small element of the game, either a character or a certain story, or they just refuse to move on from them, they'll never be able to enjoy the game in its entirety then... 

"A story of a world"... a world which changes depending on the choices we'll do playing many different stories with many character... in different moments and with different perspective everytime: this is the element I am focused on, and the reason why I am so excited by this game...

the important phrase here is: "this is the element I am focused on".

This is not seeing the general picture either, just focusing on a different aspect that looks more promising than another.

And besides, what focus you have is depending on your own point of view. While you focus on the changing world, others just focus on the narrative structure (1st person against 3rd person) or story continuance or character relations or graphics or whatever. None of them is wrong in their focus as each one focus on whats important to him or her, but you reach some very different conclusions if you're happy with DA 2 so far or not.

Modifié par MoSa09, 18 juillet 2010 - 09:57 .

[AlanC9]

errant_knight wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

And I don't think that DA2 is going to be in a different genre. I know you think that from the other thread, but not everyone agrees. I'm certain that Bio wouldn't characterize this as a genre shift.

Even if it has no impact on gamers such as yourself, who enjoy gameplay either way, a shift from first to third person isn't insignificant. It's pretty huge--and a shift in genre. Third person games are a different type of game than first person. They just are. That's entirely different than 'does it matter to you?'

See, I simply don't agree with that definition of the genre. I consider Planescape:Torment an RPG, full stop, and it's got a protagonist who's even more defined than Hawke. Not only can't you customize sex or appearance, but the whole game is about his backstory.

But if you really feel the need to say that these are games in different genres, it's not worth arguing about. Taxonomy is essentially worthless. Either you care about the differences or you don't; whether DA2 is in the same genre as DAO won't change either of our opinions about it.

Edit: didn't mean to bash taxonomy totally. It's a good way to cut down on transaction costs by bundling up a lot of information about something you aren't familiar with.

Modifié par AlanC9, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:09 .

[TMZuk]

MoSa09 wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Maybe I am wrong...

I continue to think that people should try to enlarge for a moment their visions.. We have seen only the 1st piece of a big project, and we cannot really know how they figured it..I trust we'll could give a definitive judgment in a future, and maybe also 2 games won't be enough...

But if people continue to focus on a single small element of the game, either a character or a certain story, or they just refuse to move on from them, they'll never be able to enjoy the game in its entirety then... 

"A story of a world"... a world which changes depending on the choices we'll do playing many different stories with many character... in different moments and with different perspective everytime: this is the element I am focused on, and the reason why I am so excited by this game...

the important phrase here is: "this is the element I am focused on".

This is not seeing the general picture either, just focusing on a different aspect that looks more promising then another.

And besides, what focus you have is depending on your own point of view. While you focus on the changing world, others just focus on the narrative structure (1st person against 3rd person) or story continuance or character relations or graphics or whatever.. None of them is wrong in their focus as each one focus on whats important to him or her, but you reach some very different conclusions if you're happy with DA 2 so far or not.

In

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/3153591

That is how I see the structure of the game from what we know so far. If it holds true, I believe it to be a radical shift.

Modifié par TMZuk, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:06 .

[AlanC9]

Why is it a radical shift? I suppose you'd better repost your list from the other thread if you want to discuss it here.

[MaxQuartiroli]

MoSa09 wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Maybe I am wrong...

I continue to think that people should try to enlarge for a moment their visions.. We have seen only the 1st piece of a big project, and we cannot really know how they figured it..I trust we'll could give a definitive judgment in a future, and maybe also 2 games won't be enough...

But if people continue to focus on a single small element of the game, either a character or a certain story, or they just refuse to move on from them, they'll never be able to enjoy the game in its entirety then... 

"A story of a world"... a world which changes depending on the choices we'll do playing many different stories with many character... in different moments and with different perspective everytime: this is the element I am focused on, and the reason why I am so excited by this game...

the important phrase here is: "this is the element I am focused on".

This is not seeing the general picture either, just focusing on a different aspect that looks more promising then another.

And besides, what focus you have is depending on your own point of view. While you focus on the changing world, others just focus on the narrative structure (1st person against 3rd person) or story continuance or character relations or graphics or whatever.. None of them is wrong in their focus as each one focus on whats important to him or her, but you reach some very different conclusions if you're happy with DA 2 so far or not.

In

Indeed... But you have to consider 2 things

1 - What kind of product are you going to buy? This is what they are presenting to us.. If you want continuity you can go play Mass Effect... If you want graphics you can go play Crysis.. They won't change just beacuse they had a product in their mind and people ask for a different one, because this is the product they want to do from the beginning

2 - Even if the product is not what you were expecting it does not mean it will be a bad product or you won't like it
My advise therefore is.. Before complaining or say "I refuse to play it" give it a try.. Maybe after that you'll continue to complain, but if after that you find it worth it? and what if you discover they were right in doing it? If you'll find it the "greatest idea" in the history of games? Who can really know this BEFORE?

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:28 .