172 réponses à ce sujet

[TMZuk]

AlanC9 wrote...

Why is it a radical shift? I suppose you'd better repost your list from the other thread if you want to discuss it here.

------------------------------- Copied from other thread -------------------------------------

If there are other threads like this, bear with me, and show me where they are.

This is speculation as much as fact, which is why I did not post in the: What Do We Know thread.

I've been trying to grasp the concept behind this game, and I am curious wether you all agree that this will be the structure?

-The narrative of the game will take place ten years after the events of DA1. It will look back on the exploits of Hawke, telling how he got from there to where is at present day in the game. The important things will be fixed, IE he will be the champion of Kirkwall, while details are subject to change, IE how did he become that? It will move forward in sections, progressing the main quest, when you have decided you are done with the previous time in
his life.

-At each period of his life, there will be the Main Quest, the thing that presents a challenge or an obstacle to him. The Free Marches are invaded, Orlesian spies, Flemeth, whatever it might be.

-There will be minor sidequests, but they have to be completed before you move forward in time. Maybe some of these will reappear in later parts of the game, but if you miss them from the outset, you wont be able to pick
them up later.

-Just as the main character is fixed as the Champion of Kirkwall, so will his companions be fixed, IE Best friend,
sister etc. etc. Their tales will be interwoven with the main characters tale. EG, I could imagine that something will happen to his sister, and how Hawke reacts to that will determine their future relation.

-All this will lead to present day, progressing in a fable-like manner, where you will be presented with the Final Challenge. The Final Challenge will have to be fixed as well, like ending the blight in the first game, but how you approach it and whom your allies will be, will depend on your earlier actions, to a degree.

-The decisions from DA1 will only influence marginally: Who's the Warden Commander, who's the king and queen of Ferelden, is the warden alive or dead. Maybe we will get an explanation to the epilogue in DA:A, but most likely not.

-Showdown, epilogue, game over.

This is how I imagine the game will be... am I close? Far? What do you think?


------------------------------------ end copy ---------------------------------------


I consider it a radical shift, because, unlike DA1 where you had some freedom in your travels and the order of things you decided to do things in. A return towards the BG format, and inded, the nostagia was what attracted many buyers. If I am right about how DA2 is put together, the narrative will enforce a very linear gameplay, and choise in companions.

I, and others, had hoped to see the return, obviously a succes, expanded further, with more freedom and more exploration. Instead it seems as we are headed in the opposite direction.

Modifié par TMZuk, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:22 .

[twincast]

Tirigon wrote...

BioShock sucked, I hate this game...
Can´t say much about the others, haven´t played them. Though what I hear about GTA makes me wish not to change that:sick:   Batman has a boring story, at least if it´s based on the movies. I saw one once and I didn´t like it at all.

*headdesk*
What most people who hate GTA (or Bully for that matter) on principle don't realize is that it's a parody. It's almost as grating as people misinterpreting songs because they don't pay attention past their titles.

And regarding Batman: Arkham Asylum, the first good Batman game and arguably best super-hero game ever:
First of all, which movie? They differ wildly in tone and quality.
Secondly, it's not based on any film.

The lesson of the day being, don't bash anything you haven't even bothered to inform yourself about at all. Let's try that, shall we?

[errant_knight]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Maybe I am wrong...

I continue to think that people should try to enlarge for a moment their visions.. We have seen only the 1st piece of a big project, and we cannot really know how they figured it..I trust we'll could give a definitive judgment in a future, and maybe also 2 games won't be enough...

But if people continue to focus on a single small element of the game, either a character or a certain story, or they just refuse to move on from them, they'll never be able to enjoy the game in its entirety then... 

"A story of a world"... a world which changes depending on the choices we'll do playing many different stories with many character... in different moments and with different perspective everytime: this is the element I am focused on, and the reason why I am so excited by this game...

the important phrase here is: "this is the element I am focused on".

This is not seeing the general picture either, just focusing on a different aspect that looks more promising then another.

And besides, what focus you have is depending on your own point of view. While you focus on the changing world, others just focus on the narrative structure (1st person against 3rd person) or story continuance or character relations or graphics or whatever.. None of them is wrong in their focus as each one focus on whats important to him or her, but you reach some very different conclusions if you're happy with DA 2 so far or not.

In

Indeed... But you have to consider 2 things

1 - What kind of product are you going to buy? This is what they are presenting to us.. If you want continuity you can go play Mass Effect... If you want graphics you can go play Crysis.. They won't change just beacuse they had a product in their mind and people ask for a different one, because this is the product they want to do from the beginning

2 - Even if the product is not what you were expecting it does not mean it will be a bad product or you won't like it
My advise therefore is.. Before complaining or say "I refuse to play it" give it a try.. Maybe after that you'll continue to complain, but if after that you find it worth it? and what if you discover they were right in doing it? If you'll find it the "greatest idea" in the history of games? Who can really know this BEFORE?

While I have no idea if I will find having a voiced character as offputting as I did with Mass Effect, or have the same reaction to the final graphic style as I do to what we've seen so far, or if the game will have enough dialogue to engage me, I have to second this. I'm saying what worries me, not 'this game won't be good.' One can only know by trying it. And even if I don't like it well enough to play, that doesn't mean there won't be tons of others who love it.. I'm fairly certain that the story will be interesting. None of my issues are with the content of the game itself, just with the methods of presentation that may keep me from getting to that content.

[MoSa09]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

1 - What kind of product are you going to buy? This is what they are presenting to us.. If you want continuity you can go play Mass Effect... If you want graphics you can go play Crysis.. They won't change just beacuse they had a product in their mind and people ask for a different one, because this is the product they want to do from the beginning

i am going to buy the exact same product i want to buy. Just to repeat, BW can make the game just like they want it to be. We as fans are not entitled to get anything. But on the other hand, BW is not entitled to get anything from me. If they want my money, they have to persuade me to give it to them. This is called marketing. In the end, you can't satisfy everyone. A successful product will convince a large proportion of the players base, an unsuccessful fail to do just this. If they got all others money not just mine, tough luck for me. If they missed a large portion of players, tough luck for them.

Of course i can go and buy different games, and maybe i will depending on how DA 2 turns out. In the end, after DA 2 is sold, like any capitalist company, BW will have a look at the sales and make a review. If they were successful, they will proceed they way they're going now. If not, they will most probably reconsider and think "what might have we done wrong, and how can we persuade more customers next time". I doubt anyone would say" well, we don't care, just by Crysis if you don't like our graphics".

MaxQuartiroli wrote...
2 - Even if the product is not what you were expecting it does not mean it will be a bad product or you won't like it
My advise therefore is.. Before complaining or say "I refuse to play it" give it a try.. Maybe after that you'll continue to complain, but if after that you find it worth it? and what if you discover they were right in doing it? If you'll find it the "greatest idea" in the history of games? Who can really know this BEFORE?

How do you know before you played it will be good? I don't, and i never said i don't buy it. There are news i like and news i dislike, and being member of a free community, i voice my opinion what i like and dislike in a reasonable and polite manner. Maybe after the next news, i will be delighted and excited, maybe i will be depressed. Maybe next time, the ones currently happy will be depressed. All i said was for now, i am not impressed the way they seem to go.

Modifié par MoSa09, 18 juillet 2010 - 10:01 .

[DPB]

TMZuk wrote...

I consider it a radical shift, because, unlike DA1 where you had some freedom in your travels and the order of things you decided to do things in. A return towards the BG format, and inded, the nostagia was what attracted many buyers. If I am right about how DA2 is put together, the narrative will enforce a very linear gameplay, and choise in companions.

DAO had the same structure as almost every Bioware game since KOTOR - linear beginning, compete hubs in any order, linear end. It wasn't a return to the BG format, it was the same thing they'd been doing for several years.

[Lord Gremlin]

Problem is they announced some facts about the game, all these facts are unwelcome changes. All. They didn't gave fans any promising facts.

[twincast]

dbankier wrote...

DAO had the same structure as almost every Bioware game since KOTOR - linear beginning, compete hubs in any order, linear end. It wasn't a return to the BG format, it was the same thing they'd been doing for several years.

true, that.

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Problem is they announced some facts about the game, all these facts are unwelcome changes. All. They didn't gave fans any promising facts.

this, too.

Modifié par twincast, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:32 .

[MerinTB]

twincast wrote...
What most people who hate GTA (or Bully for that matter) on principle don't realize is that it's a parody. It's almost as grating as people misinterpreting songs because they don't pay attention past their titles.

Borat was a parody, too, and I still hated how it was done.

Parody or no, GTA, IMO, is disgusting.  I'm not telling others not to enjoy it, or that it should be banned or any such thing, but I find it horrible.

And regarding Batman: Arkham Asylum, the first good Batman game and arguably best super-hero game ever:
First of all, which movie? They differ wildly in tone and quality.
Secondly, it's not based on any film.

It's loosely based on the various comic book appearances of Arkham Asylum in the Batman comics - but Paul Dini basically wrote the whole thing from scratch.
I'd argue that Rise of Sun Tzu was a good Batman game.
And that Batman: Arkham Asylum is the best stealth-based game, but I can personally think of several other established property super-hero video games (Spider-Man 2, Hulk: Ultimate Destruction, etc.) and a few non-property (Freedom Force, City of Heroes) that are far better - at least in my opinion.

[MerinTB]

dbankier wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

I consider it a radical shift, because, unlike DA1 where you had some freedom in your travels and the order of things you decided to do things in. A return towards the BG format, and inded, the nostagia was what attracted many buyers. If I am right about how DA2 is put together, the narrative will enforce a very linear gameplay, and choise in companions.

DAO had the same structure as almost every Bioware game since KOTOR - linear beginning, compete hubs in any order, linear end. It wasn't a return to the BG format, it was the same thing they'd been doing for several years.

It depends on which aspects you look at as to what it compares to.

Story structure, yes, DAO is like the CONSOLE BioWare games.  But KotOR and ME you only have 2 squad mates, JE you "kinda" have 1, and DAO gets us closer to BG2 with 3.

It's gameplay mechanics that are closer to BG2 - dialog tree, overhead tactical combat, etc.

It depends on what you focus on.

[TMZuk]

dbankier wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

I consider it a radical shift, because, unlike DA1 where you had some freedom in your travels and the order of things you decided to do things in. A return towards the BG format, and inded, the nostagia was what attracted many buyers. If I am right about how DA2 is put together, the narrative will enforce a very linear gameplay, and choise in companions.

DAO had the same structure as almost every Bioware game since KOTOR - linear beginning, compete hubs in any order, linear end. It wasn't a return to the BG format, it was the same thing they'd been doing for several years.

A step back. :happy: A small one I admit, but at least at first playthrough it felt less linear than Mass Effect 2.

One reason for that was that each Origin gave a different perspective.

My human noble detested Duncan and the wardens with a vengeance, but in the end she married Alistair and made herself queen, to secure power for the Couslands, in the vain hope that Fergus was still alive, and could provide the family with an heir. 

My Dalish elf revered Duncan and the wardens as the ones who saved him from certain death, and approached the strange world outside the Dalish society with curiousity and eagerness to prove elven superiority.

I fear the new gameplay will be more restrictive, rather than less, giving linearity and very little replay value.

Modifié par TMZuk, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:46 .

[MaxQuartiroli]

MoSa09 wrote...

How do you know before you played it will be good? I don't, and i never said i don't buy it. There are news i like and news i dislike, and being member of a free community, i voice my opinion what i like and dislike in a reasonable and polite manner. Maybe after the next news, i will be delighted and excited, maybe i will be depressed. Maybe next time, the ones currently happy will be depressed. All i said was for now, i am not impressed the way they seem to go.

1 - It could be good, it could be better than DAO, it could be the best game ever as well as it could be the worst crap ever.. but actually, for the informations we have, no one can say that.

2 - If you buy a book from the serie of your favourite author and you find a change in the plot you don't like what will you do? Will you write a letter to him asking him to change it in the next book?
If you are a fan of a TV fiction and they kill a character you like or drop a plot element what will you do? WIll you send a letter to the writers saying them "Hey why did you do that?? Are you crazy"? Of course you can do it, but what do you hope to get?

Here things are the same.. Having a forum where posting impressions, complains and opinion won't change the fact that if they want to do something they will do that, no matter what people say..

And don't forget there are MILIONS of "silent players" which don't post on forums which don't mind too much about continuity, about their old characters, about the combat style, but which play a game just for the sake of playing a game... I know at least 10 of these players. Players who are going to buy DA2 without minding too much about all these things you and me are discussing now.. Think, for each one of us there are at least 10 players like those... Tell me now how it could be possible DA2 would ever be a flop...

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:48 .

[errant_knight]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Problem is they announced some facts about the game, all these facts are unwelcome changes. All. They didn't gave fans any promising facts.

This was certainly true for me. If it hadn't been the case, I'm sure my reaction would have been more nuanced. As it was, it was on 'What!?' after another. That being said, if you consider the single character as being just one origin, it's just a much smaller game, not a different one, in that respect. Yes, it's predefined, but so was the Warden, except that you could choose from a number of predetermined backgrounds. This time, we only have one. Not ideal, but I can deal. The time thing might be interesting, too. I have no problem with that kind of experimentation. I find the other proposed changes in gameplay and presentation much more difficult to deal with.

[sumoaltus]

It seems to me that a majority of the poeple who complain like this are in love with the Star Craft real time genre. A boring, unappealing, artless work that will never, ever change.



Just compare Star Craft 1 to 2. I took them 11 years to make that!? Come on! It's exactly the same thing, is that what these complainers want?

Modifié par sumoaltus, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:50 .

[errant_knight]

sumoaltus wrote...

It seems to me that a majority of the poeple who complain like this are in love with the Star Craft real time genre. A boring, unappealing, artless work that will never, ever change.

Just compare Star Craft 1 to 2. I took them 11 years to make that!? Come on! It's exactly the same thing, is that what these complainers want?

That is so far out of left field that you're going to have to back it up. What does Starcraft have to do with DA or DA fans reactions? Pretty sure they have no concerns about first or third person presentation, immersion, or dialogue.

[Tirigon]

sumoaltus wrote...

It seems to me that a majority of the poeple who complain like this are in love with the Star Craft real time genre. A boring, unappealing, artless work that will never, ever change.

Just compare Star Craft 1 to 2. I took them 11 years to make that!? Come on! It's exactly the same thing, is that what these complainers want?

Star Craft is one of the most successful games ever, though.

[twincast]

MerinTB wrote...

Parody or no, GTA, IMO, is disgusting.  I'm not telling others not to enjoy it, or that it should be banned or any such thing, but I find it horrible.

Why exactly? Contrary to popular opinion at least GTA4 (never played the GTA3-era games and hardly remember 1&2) does not glorify crime, but merely takes a Hollywood approach to violence. Mind you, the ambient stuff (especially TV and radio) is by far the funniest and generally best part of the game, but the missions themselves are nice, too.

Erm, I know what B:AA is based upon, so what's your point?
And while I like Freedom Force well enough, it's too Silver Age-y for me to rate it above Arkham Asylum.

[MerinTB]

sumoaltus wrote...

It seems to me that a majority of the poeple who complain like this are in love with the Star Craft real time genre. A boring, unappealing, artless work that will never, ever change.

Just compare Star Craft 1 to 2. I took them 11 years to make that!? Come on! It's exactly the same thing, is that what these complainers want?

If you mean, in the sense that people loved Star Craft and just wanted more story, more maps, updated graphics and maybe a few new units but no major upheaveals in style or gameplay...

then YES, this is what I want.

11 years compared to 1 year.  Big difference there, though.

Starcraft and DAO are not nearly the same thing - but if you mean how Starcraft 2 compares to Starcraft 1, then yes.

If I wanted some major changes from DAO in my next game, I'd go buy Splinter Cell or some such.

[MerinTB]

twincast wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Parody or no, GTA, IMO, is disgusting.  I'm not telling others not to enjoy it, or that it should be banned or any such thing, but I find it horrible.

Why exactly? Contrary to popular opinion at least GTA4 (never played the GTA3-era games and hardly remember 1&2) does not glorify crime, but merely takes a Hollywood approach to violence. Mind you, the ambient stuff (especially TV and radio) is by far the funniest and generally best part of the game, but the missions themselves are nice, too.

Erm, I know what B:AA is based upon, so what's your point?
And while I like Freedom Force well enough, it's too Silver Age-y for me to rate it above Arkham Asylum.

As far as Batman, I was just filling that in since in the previous conversation what it was based on was brought up.  I didn't mean to imply that you didn't know.  My apologies.

GTA = Grand THEFT Auto.  The point of the game is to be the thug.  You steal cars.  You can run over people, beat up random pedestrians, have sex with hookers than beat them up for their money.  The missions (at least GTA 3 for the little I played before putting the game down and taking a shower) were "go beat the crap out of this guy with a baseball bat cause he owes us money" and the like.  If you ignored the missions the "nicest" things you could do would be to STEAL a firetruck and play fireman or STEAL a cop car and play vigilante.

Thematically these are NOT what I want to pretend to be doing.  Even in parody.  Even mockingly.  Even to belittle the game.  I don't find anything fun, let alone funny, about it.

[MoSa09]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

2 - If you buy a book from the serie of your favourite author and you find a change in the plot you don't like what will you do? Will you write a letter to him asking him to change it in the next book?
If you are a fan of a TV fiction and they kill a character you like or drop a plot element what will you do? WIll you send a letter to the writers saying them "Hey why did you do that?? Are you crazy"? Of course you can do it, but what do you hope to get?

Actually, tv history shows that the protest of thousands of fans, especially from tv series, can persuade a producer to change their course of action. There are some examples where exactly that happened. But regardless, for books, no, so let's go with that.

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Here things are the same.. Having a forum where posting impressions, complains and opinion won't change the fact that if they want to do something they will do that, no matter what people say..

completely missing the point. I am not stupid, and i know they are not sitting up there in Edmonton "wait, he doesn't like it, then lets scrap it and start new". But because simply because the chances my complains wont change a thing should mean everyone should stop? Not going to happen. Following your line of thought, its just alright to voice your displeasure if its guaranteed this will change things, right? This is a community forum, and most of the time, we just talk to each other and share our thoughts and opinions. The devs dropping in is a nice little extra, and every now and then a strong reaction from their fan base might persuade them to do or refrain from doing certain things. But foremost, this board is for chatting for fans with each other. Btw, what about a gaming mag giving a bad review? Won't change the release of that very game either, and still they do. Because they let the company and all others who might want to buy the game know what they think, like and dislike, and we do just that, just on a much less greater stage and with muss less audience and influence. It's something like a schoolyard here, talking about that movie we all saw last night. No one would have said: "hey, critiques not allowed, as it won't change a thing".

MaxQuartiroli wrote...
And don't forget there are MILIONS of "silent players" which don't post on forums which don't mind too much about continuity, about their old characters, about the combat style, but which play a game just for the sake of playing a game... I know at least 10 of these players. Players who are going to buy DA2 without minding too much about all these things you and me are discussing now.. Think, for each one of us there are at least 10 players like those... Tell me now how it could be possible DA2 would ever be a flop...

just out of curiosity: if they are all silent players, how do you know what they want? They will most likely buy the game based on the very same facts as we do, just that they will make a rather quick decision short to release instead of building it throughout months like we do. I'd take a bet the whole bunch of silent players is just as divided as they people here, they just start with much more information when they have to decide next year than we have at the moment.

Modifié par MoSa09, 18 juillet 2010 - 10:06 .

[BostonVamp]

Here's the thing: for me to actually try the game, I have to buy it. (I'm not into renting games) DA:O wasn't cheap and I doubt that DA 2 will be priced less. So, BW / EA must tell me why I should buy this game. Why should I give them my hard earned cash? What about this game is going to make me say, "yes, I need to buy this." So far, I'm not yet convinced. I haven't written off DA 2 as a "non-purchase" as I'm excited about the franchise and understood that DA is a WORLD - Thedas is a big place and I want to explore it all. I'm a little nervous about the potential changes to the gameplay. DA:O was very immersive for me and to this day I'm STILL trying to figure out why this darn game affected me so, as no other RPG in this genre ever has. So, I'm still waiting for the pitch that will change my opinion from "wait & see" to "I gotta get this game!" like it was for DA:O.

[MaxQuartiroli]

MoSa09 wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...
And don't forget there are MILIONS of "silent players" which don't post on forums which don't mind too much about continuity, about their old characters, about the combat style, but which play a game just for the sake of playing a game... I know at least 10 of these players. Players who are going to buy DA2 without minding too much about all these things you and me are discussing now.. Think, for each one of us there are at least 10 players like those... Tell me now how it could be possible DA2 would ever be a flop...

just out of curiosity: if they are all silent players, how do you know that they want? They will most likely buy the game based on the very same facts as we do, just that they will make a rather quick decision short to release instead of building it throughout months like we do. I'd take a bet the whole bunch of silent players is just as divided as they people here, they just start with much more information when they have to decide next year than we have at the moment.

Oh.. I tell you immediately.. An example of silent players are all my friends who play RPG games who don't post on forums.. I call them "silent" just because they don't share their experience in communities but, trust me, they play a lot of games..
Do you remember when we were complaining about Awakening? I remember in those days I was talking via MSN with some of them and they were all excited about Awakening.. When I told them about the lack of continuity, the change of the party, the not continuation of romances and many other things that disappointed us so much.. do you want to know what was their answer?  "Who cares? It's an expansion to DA:O.. It's enough for us!"
And there are many players like those, they don't care too much about many things.. "It's a game? a RPG game? A good RPG game? OK.. We'll buy it !"

I think you totally misundestood my original message.. I wasn't saying people shouldn't complain because they have all the rights to do it.. But I was just trying to give a suggest that was..
"Considering I don't think you won't be able to change things I suggest you to try to find at least something to be excited, or at least interested in. like... what I said about the world". My purpose was just to give (at least try to give) a positive/optimist message, an eventual different point of view.. But obviously you are free to get it or not...

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 18 juillet 2010 - 06:23 .

[MoSa09]

well, to cut this short since we somewhat started a private conversation here

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Oh.. I tell you immediately.. An example of silent players are all my friends who play RPG games who don't post on forums.. I call them "silent" just because they don't share their experience in communities but, trust me, they play a lot of games..
Do you remember when we were complaining about Awakening? I remember in those days I was talking via MSN with some of them and they were all excited about Awakening.. When I told them about the lack of continuity, the change of the party, the not continuation of romances and many other things that disappointed us so much.. do you want to know what was their answer?  "Who cares? It's an expansion to DA:O.. It's enough for us!"
And there are many players like that, they don't care too much about many things.. "It's a game? an RPG game? A good RPG game? OK.. We'll buy it !"

i believe within those millions, there are some who nevertheless think differently

MaxQuartiroli wrote...
I think you totally misundestood my original message.. I wasn't saying people shouldn't complain because they have all the rights to do it.. But I was just trying to give a suggest that was..
"Considering I don't think you won't be able to change things I suggest you to try to find at least something to be excited, or at least interested. like... what I said about the world". My purpose was just to give (at least try to give) a positive/optimist message, an eventual different point of view.. But obviously you are free to get it or not...

Sorry, but just a plain NO. So if i can't change it, just look for something interesting and buy i nevertheless? I would be bankrupt within months if i do that. If i don't like something and can't change it, i am just not gonna buy it. As much as i like DAO, i am not forced to by DA 2 and so have to desperately look for something interesting so i might enjoy playing it a least a little bit as i am forced to play it. I either like a game and buy it, or i dislike it and leave right where it belong: sitting on the shelves of my favorite retailer

Modifié par MoSa09, 18 juillet 2010 - 10:08 .

[Noir201]

As BostonVamp put so well, gone are the days when a name will sell something to you, bioware for me yes have made alot of great games, but, have burned me with bad ones too (Awakening and Mass Effect 2) which i no longer play, nor ever want too.

The silent players, won't buy it just cause of the name, in this day and age, people are more picky about stuff, since people don't have as much money anymore, end of the day what you have to look at, do you buy Dragonage 2 as a neutral buyer, or do you buy say The Witcher 2, as it does it better, plus number of other titles coming out?

I won't per order Dragonage 2 after the farce that was Awakening.

[WingsandRings]

Only one fan is having a negative reaction? That's not too bad.

[twincast]

MerinTB wrote...

GTA = Grand THEFT Auto.  The point of the game is to be the thug.  You steal cars.  You can run over people, beat up random pedestrians, have sex with hookers than beat them up for their money.  The missions (at least GTA 3 for the little I played before putting the game down and taking a shower) were "go beat the crap out of this guy with a baseball bat cause he owes us money" and the like. 

Well, I can respect that. It's important to note that the game doesn't reward you for killing "non-combatants", though. And I actually immensely prefer that to them being magically invulnerable, in the name of realism (or rather - considering everything else - believability).

And all the "bad" (and some "good") characters (most importantly including those you do missions for) are presented as ridiculous over-the-top shades of filth, so personally I can't get hung up over any moral dilemmas, although I'd prefer to have the choice to secretly let someone go more often than it is offered. Admittedly I'm not sure I'd enjoy a movie version, but the fantastic radio really makes the woohoo mood. Then again, I do like Pulp Fiction and love Kill Bill.

All speaking from a GTA4 viewpoint, of course, which also only let's you have sex after the third successful date or so, by the way. And features an interesting main character, who may be the only realistic, not (significantly) over-the-top one* in the whole game.

If you ignored the missions the "nicest" things you could do would be to STEAL a firetruck and play fireman or STEAL a cop car and play vigilante.

Now that's just being overly sensitive, though.

Anyway, since I brought it up before: while GTA may be hard to swallow, Bully isn't, which may be why the latter actually makes it on my list of top-fav games.

*beyond his interacting with such characters in a world full with them

Modifié par twincast, 18 juillet 2010 - 06:38 .