172 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Problem is they announced some facts about the game, all these facts are unwelcome changes. All. They didn't gave fans any promising facts.

This was certainly true for me. If it hadn't been the case, I'm sure my reaction would have been more nuanced. As it was, it was on 'What!?' after another. That being said, if you consider the single character as being just one origin, it's just a much smaller game, not a different one, in that respect. Yes, it's predefined, but so was the Warden, except that you could choose from a number of predetermined backgrounds. This time, we only have one. Not ideal, but I can deal. The time thing might be interesting, too. I have no problem with that kind of experimentation. I find the other proposed changes in gameplay and presentation much more difficult to deal with.

Same here, but I would go back further and say I haven't been getting any good news out of the franchise since the first DLCs came out.  The DLCs have been anywhere from disappointing to downright appalling.  So while others may have unshakeable faith in Bioware and the franchise, can't say that I do.

The DLC has been BS for a long time. You have to wonder what is so different with the NE2 team, or if the status quo will change now that Dragon Age is BioWare's big spender.

[Fishy]

MerinTB wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
80 hours? Dragon age origins?

I have done many playthrough and i try hard , really hard to learn and do everything and read codex entry and my longest journey was 40 hours with every DLC.

80 hours .. How?Are you walking during the whole game?

Not this again...

check out my game profiles (or those of other players)
I clocked 128 on my first run, 98 on my second, and like 86 or so on my third.

My 4th I'm finally fastforwarding conversations I'm not interested in, skipping side missions, and only reading the codexes connected to the new origin I chose.  We'll see what I finish at - I'm betting it's still over 60.

What I cannot understand are those clocking in under 50 on their first play.

Man i'm jealous .. I really try and i can't even come close to 50.
On my first playthroought it's was even faster .. Because i did not know all the side quest and had no DLC .More like 30 hours.

Modifié par Suprez30, 18 juillet 2010 - 08:36 .

[Fishy]

Maybe because i was playing the french version.Now i'm doing the english version.!

[MoSa09]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

The DLC has been BS for a long time. You have to wonder what is so different with the NE2 team, or if the status quo will change now that Dragon Age is BioWare's big spender.

that was indeed somewhat funny. BW announced some crappy dlc for the DA franchise and a few weeks later, another dlc, this time interesting and worth playing, was released for ME 2. You would think that after a while, the ones making the DA dlc would ask their collagues at the ME department what they're doing better, but that never happened it seems.

Or maybe it did, as the ME2 guys asked their collagues "what did you guys do" just to do the exact opposite

Modifié par MoSa09, 18 juillet 2010 - 08:55 .

[WilliamShatner]

BioWare need to talk to Pixar about how to do succesful sequels.



If Toy Story 3 came out without Woody, Buzz and the rest of the gang there would be murder in the streets.



Pixar brought back all the characters we love, made the film they wanted to make and made a great and highly successful film. It's everything a sequel should be.

[Brockololly]

WilliamShatner wrote...

BioWare need to talk to Pixar about how to do succesful sequels.

If Toy Story 3 came out without Woody, Buzz and the rest of the gang there would be murder in the streets.

Pixar brought back all the characters we love, made the film they wanted to make and made a great and highly successful film. It's everything a sequel should be.

You know I'm willing to see what BioWare has brewing with Hawke, but I agree.

Its not the plot that makes BioWare games great- its the characters.

I have faith they can come up with a new set of interesting characters, but I'd hate to just see the yearly DA game with a revolving door of characters every time. Part of the reason I loved the BG series was that you mostly kept the same characters and same PC through the games so you had actual character development and not just learning about the character's backstory every time.

[bjdbwea]

WilliamShatner wrote...

BioWare need to talk to Pixar about how to do succesful sequels.

If Toy Story 3 came out without Woody, Buzz and the rest of the gang there would be murder in the streets.

Pixar brought back all the characters we love, made the film they wanted to make and made a great and highly successful film. It's everything a sequel should be.

This. I don't really understand what BioWare are doing either. I've come to understand that they do all this because they think it will maximize profits, and this matters more than coherence. Okay, fine. I just don't see how some things are supposed to achieve that. Surely it would only speed up development if you try to keep working with established characters and concepts instead of throwing everything away.

[Bryy_Miller]

I could see that if there was no importing. But there is.

[Brockololly]

bjdbwea wrote...
Surely it would only speed up development if you try to keep working with established characters and concepts instead of throwing everything away.

Yeah, I like sequels of movies, books and so forth because you generally have the backstory of the characters out of the way and you can engage in some meaningful character development. I'm sure we'll see some familiar faces but since it won't be as the Warden, it won't have as much meaning.

The whole new visual style bothers me too though- usually in a sequel you would build off of what you made in the first game. Except now it seems they're retconning and rebooting the whole look of the DA universe instead of making incremental changes. For what? IMO the new style doesn't look noticably better than the Origins- instead of riffing off of Peter Jackson's LotR, the new style is riffing Frank Frazetta/He-Man/300/Conan...

[MaxQuartiroli]

WilliamShatner wrote...

BioWare need to talk to Pixar about how to do succesful sequels.

If Toy Story 3 came out without Woody, Buzz and the rest of the gang there would be murder in the streets.

Pixar brought back all the characters we love, made the film they wanted to make and made a great and highly successful film. It's everything a sequel should be.

You can't compare a movie with a game.. In a movie do you want to do something? You just do it
Like when you are writing a book... Do you want something to happen? You write it into your story and it's enough

With a game you have to face technical development.. There are several possible endings with several possible conclusion for every single companion (dead-alive-actual LoveInterest - married/not married - king/tramp cheated/discarded LoveInterst,).
Do you even realize that if they had to put all the possible variables into a new game they had to spend allmost of their budget/time to make all these things to fit in the game? And after that what would remain for the game? They have high budget, not endless budget.
A 15 hours-lenght game because they spent all their budget to set all the old variables into the new game.. Nice deal !!

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 18 juillet 2010 - 10:04 .

[joriandrake]

He-Man, I was not able to find the perfect example, you were!

[Narreneth]

WilliamShatner wrote...

BioWare need to talk to Pixar about how to do succesful sequels.

If Toy Story 3 came out without Woody, Buzz and the rest of the gang there would be murder in the streets.

Pixar brought back all the characters we love, made the film they wanted to make and made a great and highly successful film. It's everything a sequel should be.

BioWare really needs to learn from JRR Tolkien.  Had Lord of the Rings come out and they weren't a continuation of Bilbo and the surviving Dwarves there would be murder in the streets.

Oh wait.

Same world.  Consequences from first game carry over.  It's a sequel.  Quit being a baby.

[Addai]

MerinTB wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
80 hours? Dragon age origins?

I have done many playthrough and i try hard , really hard to learn and do everything and read codex entry and my longest journey was 40 hours with every DLC.

80 hours .. How?Are you walking during the whole game?

Not this again...

check out my game profiles (or those of other players)
I clocked 128 on my first run, 98 on my second, and like 86 or so on my third.

My 4th I'm finally fastforwarding conversations I'm not interested in, skipping side missions, and only reading the codexes connected to the new origin I chose.  We'll see what I finish at - I'm betting it's still over 60.

What I cannot understand are those clocking in under 50 on their first play.

I'm curious about this.  I do a lot of sidequests and have Stone Prisoner, Warden's Keep and RtO, but I usually run 45-50 hours.  128 hours?!  I do play on Easy or Normal, since I don't get into lots of meaningless combat, but would it account for that much difference?

[Addai]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Problem is they announced some facts about the game, all these facts are unwelcome changes. All. They didn't gave fans any promising facts.

This was certainly true for me. If it hadn't been the case, I'm sure my reaction would have been more nuanced. As it was, it was on 'What!?' after another. That being said, if you consider the single character as being just one origin, it's just a much smaller game, not a different one, in that respect. Yes, it's predefined, but so was the Warden, except that you could choose from a number of predetermined backgrounds. This time, we only have one. Not ideal, but I can deal. The time thing might be interesting, too. I have no problem with that kind of experimentation. I find the other proposed changes in gameplay and presentation much more difficult to deal with.

Same here, but I would go back further and say I haven't been getting any good news out of the franchise since the first DLCs came out.  The DLCs have been anywhere from disappointing to downright appalling.  So while others may have unshakeable faith in Bioware and the franchise, can't say that I do.

The DLC has been BS for a long time. You have to wonder what is so different with the NE2 team, or if the status quo will change now that Dragon Age is BioWare's big spender.

Maybe the budget had run out for DAO?  I dunno, anyway the DLC have not been a good advertisement for future installments, particularly in the areas where the most changes are being made- party interaction, story, and continuity.

[WilliamShatner]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

BioWare need to talk to Pixar about how to do succesful sequels.

If Toy Story 3 came out without Woody, Buzz and the rest of the gang there would be murder in the streets.

Pixar brought back all the characters we love, made the film they wanted to make and made a great and highly successful film. It's everything a sequel should be.

You can't compare a movie with a game.. In a movie do you want to do something? You just do it
Like when you are writing a book... Do you want something to happen? You write it into your story and it's enough

With a game you have to face technical development.. There are several possible endings with several possible conclusion for every single companion (dead-alive-actual LoveInterest - married/not married - king/tramp cheated/discarded LoveInterst,).
Do you even realize that if they had to put all the possible variables into a new game they had to spend allmost of their budget/time to make all these things to fit in the game? And after that what would remain for the game? They have high budget, not endless budget.
A 15 hours-lenght game because they spent all their budget to set all the old variables into the new game.. Nice deal !!

Is that why with every passing game BioWare waxes lyrical about their games being "cinematic"?

Toy Story 3 cost $200 million to make.  Dragon Age cost what?  $20-30 million?  Games are not that expensive to make.  That's pocket change for a blockbuster movie.  The game industry can start to sing "cry me a river" about game budgets when they stop charging $60 per game.

Modifié par WilliamShatner, 18 juillet 2010 - 10:32 .

[Bryy_Miller]

I'm beginning to think that half the people complaining on these boards are the same person.

[Addai]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I'm beginning to think that half the people complaining on these boards are the same person.

Maybe we can move beyond "you're a whiner and you suck" or "you're a Bioware fanboy so you suck" now?  It would be a good thing.

[bjdbwea]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Is that why with every passing game BioWare waxes lyrical about their games being "cinematic"?

Toy Story 3 cost $200 million to make.  Dragon Age cost what?  $20-30 million?  Games are not that expensive to make.  That's pocket change for a blockbuster movie.  The game industry can start to sing "cry me a river" about game budgets when they stop charging $60 per game.

To be fair, there are huge differences between games as a product and movies as a product. But there are not so much differences as far as the content is concerned. If people like things (characters, for example) in your product, it makes only sense to retain them in a successor. Not even the "we have to attract new players" idea is really an explanation. After all, you could introduce them to "old" characters just as easily as you can to "new" ones.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 18 juillet 2010 - 10:43 .

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I'm beginning to think that half the people complaining on these boards are the same person.

Maybe we can move beyond "you're a whiner and you suck" or "you're a Bioware fanboy so you suck" now?  It would be a good thing.

Agreed. It's pointless and a complete waste of time.

[MerinTB]

Addai67 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
80 hours? Dragon age origins?

I have done many playthrough and i try hard , really hard to learn and do everything and read codex entry and my longest journey was 40 hours with every DLC.

80 hours .. How?Are you walking during the whole game?

Not this again...

check out my game profiles (or those of other players)
I clocked 128 on my first run, 98 on my second, and like 86 or so on my third.

My 4th I'm finally fastforwarding conversations I'm not interested in, skipping side missions, and only reading the codexes connected to the new origin I chose.  We'll see what I finish at - I'm betting it's still over 60.

What I cannot understand are those clocking in under 50 on their first play.

I'm curious about this.  I do a lot of sidequests and have Stone Prisoner, Warden's Keep and RtO, but I usually run 45-50 hours.  128 hours?!  I do play on Easy or Normal, since I don't get into lots of meaningless combat, but would it account for that much difference?

I don't know what to tell you.

Do some searches - this was a topic that came up often, as in threads about game length.  As in arguing about BioWare's advertising about how long the game was.
It is subjective - each person plays at their own rate.  But my friend Chad's times are comprable (chadisdrawing) as are many people who were commenting in those threads.

Check my profile, see the time stamps at different story points.  I don't have any better explanation than that.

[Bryy_Miller]

Addai67 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I'm beginning to think that half the people complaining on these boards are the same person.

Maybe we can move beyond "you're a whiner and you suck" or "you're a Bioware fanboy so you suck" now?  It would be a good thing.

 Fanboys whine the loudest. Also, they secretly hate whatever it is that they are a fan of. I've come to this conclusion after years of study.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 18 juillet 2010 - 10:45 .

[MaxQuartiroli]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Is that why with every passing game BioWare waxes lyrical about their games being "cinematic"?

Toy Story 3 cost $200 million to make.  Dragon Age cost what?  $20-30 million?  Games are not that expensive to make.  That's pocket change for a blockbuster movie.  The game industry can start to sing "cry me a river" about game budgets when they stop charging $60 per game.

It's not the total cost, but how much of that cost you can use for every element of the game.. If you can't spend more than 5$ millions for companions and bring old companions to a new game, writing 5 different stories for each of them, (becuase you had 5 different conclusion) costs 10$ milions they just discard that option.
Especially if you consider that not all the player won't have all the companions...therefore you risk to waste money

Unless you would be happy to have a canon beginning where all your previous decisions won't matter and you have just 1 story set by them..so they can keep all the old folks in the game..
Honestly I wouldn't like something like that...

There is an interesting post of David in one of the topics of this forum, where he explains that there are many things they would like to do as writers, but in the end they have limitations, they have to find compromises  and they have everytime to cut somewhere... because it's not possible to add every thing you want into a game..

If you find it he can explain this thing way better than me.. 

[errant_knight]

MerinTB wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
80 hours? Dragon age origins?

I have done many playthrough and i try hard , really hard to learn and do everything and read codex entry and my longest journey was 40 hours with every DLC.

80 hours .. How?Are you walking during the whole game?

Not this again...

check out my game profiles (or those of other players)
I clocked 128 on my first run, 98 on my second, and like 86 or so on my third.

My 4th I'm finally fastforwarding conversations I'm not interested in, skipping side missions, and only reading the codexes connected to the new origin I chose.  We'll see what I finish at - I'm betting it's still over 60.

What I cannot understand are those clocking in under 50 on their first play.

I'm curious about this.  I do a lot of sidequests and have Stone Prisoner, Warden's Keep and RtO, but I usually run 45-50 hours.  128 hours?!  I do play on Easy or Normal, since I don't get into lots of meaningless combat, but would it account for that much difference?

I don't know what to tell you.

Do some searches - this was a topic that came up often, as in threads about game length.  As in arguing about BioWare's advertising about how long the game was.
It is subjective - each person plays at their own rate.  But my friend Chad's times are comprable (chadisdrawing) as are many people who were commenting in those threads.

Check my profile, see the time stamps at different story points.  I don't have any better explanation than that.

Yeah, mine's in the same ballpark, over 100 hours for the first couple of playthroughs (those were on easy, then normal), now about 75-100, depending on what I'm doing. I do reload and try out different conversation options, and I may or may not read the codex entries depending on how I feel at the time, but I've always been baffled at how quickly some can play the game.

[Bryy_Miller]

It took me maybe 30 hours to do a dry run-through.

[MerinTB]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

It took me maybe 30 hours to do a dry run-through.

That's awesome.  Cause your avatar's pictured character is level 25 at 10 hours into the game with stats that are ridiculous.  25 level at 10 hours in.

Not judging how others play their games but that just isn't in the ballpark of "fun" nor "playing the game" to me.

Another character you did an origin story in about twenty minutes.  I thought my 2 hours Dalish origin was ridiculously short. :/

Thanks, Bryy, for showing me how someone can beat the game so quickly.

Origin in 20 minutes, 25th level at 10 hours into the game.<_<