17 réponses à ce sujet

[Jasuke34]

I just want to say to the devs to keep their hearts up despite all the flak they are getting about the changes to DA2. While I admit I am a little concerned about the changes, I trust that Bioware will continue to make the same great games they always have. Don't get discourage because of all the flames you are receiving. You have made great games and you will continue to do so. Keep up the amazing work.

To everyone else, please support the devs. They work hard to provide us with awesome entertainment. Be glad that they are devoted to such excellence.

I don't mean to fill the forum with more clutter, but I felt that the devs need some support and encouragement after all the junk I have read people saying about them.

Once again, Keep up the amazing work devs!

[David Gaider]

Jasuke34 wrote...
I just want to say to the devs to keep their hearts up despite all the flak they are getting about the changes to DA2. While I admit I am a little concerned about the changes, I trust that Bioware will continue to make the same great games they always have. Don't get discourage because of all the flames you are receiving. You have made great games and you will continue to do so. Keep up the amazing work.

To everyone else, please support the devs. They work hard to provide us with awesome entertainment. Be glad that they are devoted to such excellence.

I don't mean to fill the forum with more clutter, but I felt that the devs need some support and encouragement after all the junk I have read people saying about them.

Once again, Keep up the amazing work devs!

Thanks! Though I'll point out that

a) we're used to this.

people fear change.

c) not everyone's going to be on board as a result of (, especially here on these forums-- after all, the people who are most going to dislike any changes are those who liked everything exactly the way it was so much that they're hanging out on the game's forums many months after release, no? They're free to express their discontent, or wait to be convinced. It doesn't hurt our feelings.

But thank you for the vote of confidence.

[David Gaider]

joriandrake wrote...
this thread can also count as spam ya know

Dude, I'm not going to close down every thread that repeats a topic or I'd be here all day. I'll restrict myself to the ones that are the posting equivalent of streaking and I'll leave it at that.

[David Gaider]

Bratt1204 wrote...
Quite the contrary mon ami -  people fear that the games they love will be followed up and destroyed by crap expansions and  sequels instead of expanding upon and adding to an already exceptional storyline 

Maybe that contradicts what I said in some alternate universe, sure. Let's go with that.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Therumancer et al, you make some excellent points, and I can understand why you're having your reaction. As I've said elsewhere, we have almost entirely talked about points of differentiation between Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age II thus far, largely because saying that "we were making the exact same game, and you don't need to worry about it!" would make all of you -very- angry later. So, to your point, this feedback was, actually, what we were expecting. I'm well aware that change is scary, because it's very possible that in changing things, we could screw them up. We certainly don't think we're doing so, but there's no real way to prove that to you, and so, we endure some angst. It's part of the job.



Nothing here is being ignored as "internet hate" (well, except for the obvious internet hate), but you have to accept that we do stand in a position of seeing a more complete view of the Dragon Age 2 product than you have at this point.



As such, we look (very closely, in fact) at the most pressing concerns and then we look at our design and make sure that, yes, when the game is on shelves the vast majority of those concerns will be addressed. We can't address them all right now. There's no way to know that the story of DA2 will rock until you play it, that's just the way of things.



Still, do I think the game is dumbed down and consolized? No. Do I think we are improving a lot of systems, and changing our approach to make a game that we, as a team, think is going to kick major ass, yet still feel like it's a Dragon Age game? Yes. For one example: I think our character progression is -more- complex than it was in Origins, but I also think it's better-presented. It's like having cake and eating it too.



Do I expect you to believe me on raw faith? Nope. Sadly there will be a window between announcement and release, just like every other game, where you simply won't know whether the cat is alive or dead. (http://en.wikipedia....roedinger's_Cat) Thing is, I really, really like cats, so you can expect us to do everything we can to keep that feline kicking. Of course, we could cheat, and put Ser Pouncealot in there, because we know Anders wouldn't let a damn thing happen to him. But I digress.



Maybe I'm wrong, and we should have just stapled 2 Archdemons together, let your character meet a mentor named "Tuncan" and knocked off early, but the simple truth is that's not the game I or the team wanted to make.



Also, WilliamShatner, Dave's heart is not made of stone. You're thinking Priestly.

[David Gaider]

Bratt1204 wrote...
I could care less about Devs communicating with their 'fanbase'. I am not a groupie - I am a paying customer - purchasing a product. I have not read a single positive/constructive post from a developer responding in a modest, non-condescending manner to a negative post.

Actually, I do this all the time. Perhaps it's just you.

Because this not communist China, I feel it is important to comment on things that disappoint. What I find insulting is smug game developers  thinking that they are coming up with the 'Next best thing" and trying to cram it down everyone's throat and marketing it as pure gold. It was clearly proven with Awakening - everything that we loved was taken away and the expansion was a extremely lackluster as a result. Yet all along we were being told to buy the game developers to buy it, play it and make our own decisions instead of reading reviews. Sorry, if I read a ton of rubbish reviews about a game, it most likely will be rubbish that I will not waste my money on.

Considering that you still will not be able to continue your relationship with Alistair, I don't imagine your opinion will change no matter what we do. You may consider it us "cramming something down your throat", but we're not forcing you to like anything nor are we under the illusion that we're going to make everyone happy with what we do... even those people who happen not to live in Communist China, or who read every developer post as if it were being narrated in their head by Snidely Whiplash.

[Tonia Laird]

Being one of the new kids working at BioWare, I'm still working on my "thick hide", so it's cool to see this thread. Actually, I have to admit, it's been cool seeing all the threads, positive and negative. I'm amazed by the passion the developers and the players have for the Dragon Age universe. (Maybe I shouldn't be so amazed, though... I was a huge DA:O fiend before starting here!)

[David Gaider]

Bratt1204 wrote...
You've proven my point exactly - smug, condescending remarks - as always.

Hey, I'd hate to disappoint the whole martyr thing you've got going. Take it as a gift, by all means.

And what in the world does 'continuing a relationship with Alistair' have anything to do with my post? I'm sorry, did I miss something in MY own post that I was not aware of? 

You didn't pop into existence in this thread. I'm well aware of the melodramatic threads you posted in regarding the source of all your disappointment -- which is fine, I completely understand that we didn't live up to your expectations. Which is exactly my point. The fact that people might fear change isn't a suggestion that they're not going to feel completely justified for feeling as they do in the end, it's simply that the mere suggestion of it makes people leap to some very swift conclusions.

Which I'll assume is because people care so much. So that's a nice compliment. I hope in the end those people who are so fearful end up enjoying the game or, at the very least, give it a chance before they become determined to hate absolutely every last thing about it by association -- but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

Modifié par David Gaider, 19 juillet 2010 - 08:56 .

[David Gaider]

WilliamShatner wrote...
Yeah and look at how believeing in Harvery Dent turned out!  He became a pyschopathic murderer. 

It's good to have something to strive towards.

[Stanley Woo]

Let's try to keep things on-topic, please. Thank you.

[David Gaider]

In Exile wrote...
I remember followng the development of DA:O, which people now hail as a great RPG, and remember all the complaints leveled at it for not being a BG2 clone. "Why can't we attack anyone?" "The Origins will wreck role-playing - I want to be able to use any background!" "Why can't I use other party members to speak?" "Level scaling has no place in an RPG!" and so on.

Indeed. Some people seem to act as if the reaction here was something new and shocking, or that the expectations are different because it's a sequel as opposed to the "spiritual sequel" of Baldur's Gate. Not really so. People are always going to have their own dealbreakers, and will undoubtedly argue with us as to what they think we should value most about our own design-- but the response is always the same: in the absence of evidence there's always an element of outraged speculation.

I don't know whether those people were satisfied with DA

I assume that many of the people who weren't satisfied with DAO simply moved on. Not every game is going to be to everyone's tastes, and just because you hang out on these forums doesn't mean that we demand that you like what we're doing. We hope you do, and we're doing our best to implement our vision, and in the end we hope you'll see what we're getting at-- but our fans cover a wide range of interests and will like our games for very different reasons. The decision will be yours as to whether or not this game's for you.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 juillet 2010 - 06:14 .

[Stanley Woo]

i don't think you can provide any "evidence of how they will improve the game," because people's tastes and experiences are so subjective. i also don't think that expecting people to not be hysterical and freaking out of every perceived feature that "will inevitably destroy the game and ruing my sammich" is unreasonable of us. Putting the onus on us to ensure our fans don't jump to erroneous conclusions and parade them up and down the forums as evidence of even more ridiculous conspiracy theories is a little silly. You're all adults (presumably) with common sense (probably) and intelligence (likely); you can see the science for yourselves.

Frankly I wouldn't have announced anything until I had something to show people when I knew the changes I was making would be so divisive.

That goes both way, i'm afraid, WilliamShatner. Frankly, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about the game until I had more information when I knew I was super passionate about my previous game experience and didn't want anything to change.



the game isn't coming out tomorrow, and what we've announced is not the be-all and end-all of what DA2 is going to be. Stick around, listen to us talk more about the game, then decide for yourselves. Better yet, keep and open mind and play the game before deciding whether you had jumped to conclusions or we gave you bad info.

[David Gaider]

WilliamShatner wrote...
You can't condemn people's opinion of the game as "outraged speculation" when you haven't given them any evidence to the contrary. 

Who's condemning? I'm simply saying it happens-- we're never going to flood the fans with the amount of information they want immediately upon announcement. Thus this is not unfamiliar territory.

I highy recommend your marketing department get to work on gameplay videos highlighting why these change improve the game and pronto.  Frankly I wouldn't have announced anything until I had something to show people when I knew the changes I was making would be so divisive. 

If the sole purpose of our marketing department was to win over the fans on these forums, I'd agree with you. As it is, I'm sure the information you're looking for will come out in time-- as with Origins I imagine they'll take their time speaking to each part of our target audience in turn, and I'm certain that the ardent fans will get their moment. For now, it's just an announcement. I recognize that there's anxiety, and by all means some of it is understandable, but all I've ever said is that you might be better advised withholding judgment until the information mill begins to churn. Many people will not, of course, but as I said before that's inevitable regardless.

[David Gaider]

Bratt1204 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
If the sole purpose of our marketing department was to win over the fans on these forums, I'd agree with you.

Really? I thought we were consumers who purchased products developed and marketed by EA & Bioware?  

So which are you suggesting-- that our marketing department's sole purpose should be to win over the fans on these forums? Or that you believe the fans on these forums are representative of all consumers who purchase products developed by EA & BioWare? Because it really seems like your response is suggesting one of these things.

Modifié par David Gaider, 21 juillet 2010 - 12:14 .

[David Gaider]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...
I don't know, the changes made so far were a deal-breaker for me. I'm still not buying DA 2. I don't doubt it will be a fun game, I do doubt it will be as fun as DA:O for me. If DA 3 returns some of the freedoms of DA:O I might pick DA 2 up after playing DA 3, or I might just see how it ends on YouTube. If I want to be stuck playing a set character, I'll watch a movie.

As far as supporting the Devs, yeah, do that if you like their product. If you don't like the changes, you should be free to voice that as long as you don't resort to insults, name calling, ect. Bioware is still making a product for money, it's not like they make games out of the goodness in their hearts out of leprechaun smiles and puppydog tails. They are a good company, if they make a good product, they'll stay afloat. DA:O is a great game, DA 2...isn't looking so hot to me right now and I'm not the type to gobble up everything a company will feed me with a grin on my face because the namebrand has become cool.

DA 2 is likely way past the point of no return on these concepts they are pushing, that's why I'm crossing my fingers that DA 3 will return to a more creative emphasis on the player.

If you really feel that there's no possible implementation of the features we've mentioned so far that would work for you, or that you have all the information needed to make your judgment and aren't basing them on assumptions-- then that's completely fair. We'd be sincerely sad to lose you, but as I've said many times we're well aware that we can't please everyone. Hopefully you change your mind or, as you suggest, the next game is more to your liking.

Modifié par David Gaider, 21 juillet 2010 - 01:14 .

[David Gaider]

David Gaider wrote...
But it's not just this forum Mr. Gaider.  Pretty much every forum or new story comment section I've read has a sizable chunk of comments echoing those posted here.

And? Even if I were to take anecdotal evidence at face value, what does it mean? A portion of the fanbase that is already paying attention doesn't like what they're hearing. That is understood. Ignoring that such feelings are hardly universal, not even here on these forums, it still wouldn't be marketing's sole task to appease those particular fans.

WilliamShatner wrote...
As for the people who don't post here but may represent the "silent majority", as the old saying goes, "if you don't vote you can't complain."

That would be an excellent old saying if we designed any of our games by committee.

Modifié par David Gaider, 21 juillet 2010 - 12:50 .

[David Gaider]

Bratt1204 wrote...
Really?? When did I say that, exactly? Please do not put words in other poster's mouths - You're making yourself look rather foolish 

It's almost as if they're inferring things you didn't even say, or reading a tone into what you've written that you never intended. It's clearly very unfair that they would do this to you, I agree.

[Stanley Woo]

No longer on-topic. If you guys wnat to argue amongst yourselves, please take it to private or to another forum. Thank you.



End of line.