454 réponses à ce sujet

[Merci357]

Well, milking a franchise already implies it's done with little quality, or little change between each parts. That said, I did enjoy, for example, those SSI gold box games back in the days, and there were very interchangeable. The gameplay between, let's say, Buck Rogers and Curse of the Azure Bonds, was largely similar. Story, setting and plot was the difference. After they abandoned this engine (and the Dungeon Master style Eye of the Beholder series was done), SSI went downhill, and fast.
So, in short, change isn't always improvement.

Modifié par Merci357, 21 juillet 2010 - 02:18 .

[WilliamShatner]

Solid N7 wrote...

well javierbegazo said in other thread all these complains come from pc gamers and they make multiple accounts to said all these bull**** and I agree with these changes and I hope with these changes the hardcore roleplaying otakus aka "pc gamers" will leave these forums.

I am an XBOX 360 player. 

[Bratt1204]

David Gaider wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
If the sole purpose of our marketing department was to win over the fans on these forums, I'd agree with you.

Really? I thought we were consumers who purchased products developed and marketed by EA & Bioware?  

So which are you suggesting-- that our marketing department's sole purpose should be to win over the fans on these forums? Or that you believe the fans on these forums are representative of all consumers who purchase products developed by EA & BioWare? Because it really seems like your response is suggesting one of these things.

That may certainly be your interpretation of my statement - however - you seem to stereotype everyone that 'hangs out on these forums' as childish groupies or fans instead of consumers who game developers rely on to buy your products. Because you are just a writer for Bioware (and I certainly do appreciate your contributions), I suppose I should overlook your indifference to the importance of customer relations. 

Modifié par Bratt1204, 21 juillet 2010 - 02:02 .

[Captain Jazz]

Bratt1204 wrote...

To me, it's less about the possibility
of DA:2 not being a good game technically - but the lack of storyline
transition from DA:O to DA:2 - that is what has me most concerned.

How much storyline transferred from NWN to NWN2? Do we really want to see the warden strolling around Ferelden, taking out ogres with a harsh stare and flattening battalions of hurlocks with a raised eyebrow? There's a very good reason that very few dnd-type games have their characters pass far beyond level 30 - the challenge is what makes the game fun and very little can challenge such high level characters. The only possible way to keep the story alive with that character is to bump them back down to level 1 which... kinda makes no sense.

Solid N7 wrote...

well javierbegazo said in other thread all these complains come from pc gamers and they make multiple accounts to said all these bull**** and I agree with these changes and I hope with these changes the hardcore roleplaying otakus aka "pc gamers" will leave these forums.

As a hardcore roleplaying pc gamer, I take offense to being tarred with the same brush as the doomsayers. <_<

[Lyssistr]

Merci357 wrote...

Well, milking a franchise already implies it's done with little quality, or little change between each parts. That said, I did enjoy, for example, those SSI gold box games back in the days, and there were very interchangeable. The gameplay between, let's say, Buck Rogers and Curse of the Azure Bonds, was largely similar. Story, setting and plot was the difference. After they abandoned this engine (and the Dungeon Master style Eye of the Beholder series was done), SSI went downhill, and fast.
So, in short, change isn't always improvement.

I was a kid back then and budget wasn't allowing me to play more than Pools of Radiance & Eye of the Beholder I, II. So I can't really speak about all the Gold box ssi games. I take your word for it that they did change story, setting & plot for the one's I haven't played. This rather confirms that changes need to be made for stuff not to become boring.

 Dropping the engine, first of all is also a technology change, the equivalent here would be Bioware shifting to a holographic 3D engine and that new engine being ****. As for SSI's engine shift, it could have been a mistake or the right thing to do, I don't know really, I can't imagine games like Pools of radiance being successful in the post-Fallout era. Maybe the thing to blame is that they lost their chance to make a new good engine, rather than saying their mistake was not sticking with the old one.

[iTomes]

Solid N7 wrote...

well javierbegazo said in other thread all these complains come from pc gamers and they make multiple accounts to said all these bull**** and I agree with these changes and I hope with these changes the hardcore roleplaying otakus aka "pc gamers" will leave these forums.

well console kiddie if you want to play the "i hate the other platform buhuhu" game fine. to me, console kiddies like you who want gaming transfered to consoles and consoles only are worse then crap on my shoes. reason is: there are games for pc, and there are games for consoles. if you cant accept this, well drink bleach and die or just stop playing games!


side note: hope i wasn't too rude but guys like that one annoy me THAT much...

[Sanzee]

WORD

[WilliamShatner]

iTomes wrote...

Solid N7 wrote...

well javierbegazo said in other thread all these complains come from pc gamers and they make multiple accounts to said all these bull**** and I agree with these changes and I hope with these changes the hardcore roleplaying otakus aka "pc gamers" will leave these forums.

well console kiddie if you want to play the "i hate the other platform buhuhu" game fine. to me, console kiddies like you who want gaming transfered to consoles and consoles only are worse then crap on my shoes. reason is: there are games for pc, and there are games for consoles. if you cant accept this, well drink bleach and die or just stop playing games!


side note: hope i wasn't too rude but guys like that one annoy me THAT much...

Indeed.  PopCap really should stop porting their games to consoles.

[In Exile]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Of course you are entitled to your opinion.  I just don't think much stock should be put into this silent portion of people who buy the game, play it, never touch it again and forget about it. 

But how do you know anything about this market? All that we know is that DA sold very well - comparable to ME. Bioware has most certainly tracked some data - the game is designed to do this if you let it, after all. They will most certainly try to cater to the taste of the people who enjoyed the game and are likely to rebuy, whle trying to attract potential markets.

The issue simply is that it is not entirely clear what features of DA:O were great. For example, I hated tactics and the lack of VO. I loved the isometric gameplay. I thought the origins were overhyped, and while well done, I happen to like humans and for aesthetic reasons can play as dwarves, so I want less dwarf content and more human/elf content.

Other people have other tastes.

Or people who thought Dragon Age: Origins was not for them.  Sorry if that is blunt or elitist, but then I also don't expect the developers of Saint's Row (for example) to cater for me or make the game accessible for me.  That type of game just isn't my thing.  I let the people who have a passion for that game like I do for several BioWare games have their game just the way they like it.

But how do we know they are catering to that group. Now that they've added VO, they are catering to me. I followed Mass Effect since I heard it was in development. I wanted them to change the mechanic to be either fully isometric RPG like DA or a true shooter, because I hate hybrid systems like in ME. They changed it to be more like a shooter.... so did they cater to me, or to people who thought ME was not for them?

This is the issue I have with what you are saying. In short, it is not entirely clear what specific parts of DA people liked. It's not entirely clear who liked what parts of ME2. I can appreciate that you felt betrayed, but that does not entitle you to tell others what DA should be.

I disdain people who don't like a series wanting to assimilate it into something they like. It's like Star Trek.  People who weren't fans of the show complained that the show/movies were boring.  So then they made the new movie an action movie for them disregarding nearly everything Trek was about and what made Trek Trek.  It's not like they didn't have Star Wars already. <_<

Oy vey. Look, it is possible to like certain things about Star Trek, yet disagree over the direction. It is not some betrayal. Do you think DS9 was a betrayal? As the dominion war geared up, Sisko became increasingly grey. I thought that was when the series was at its peak, and what Sisko did to get the Romulans to join the war - brilliant. But to some people that violates the idealism of Trek. Yet I consider myself a fan.

All of this boils down quite simply to no one have a right to say that a series is by divine fiat.

Modifié par In Exile, 21 juillet 2010 - 02:42 .

[Solid N7]

iTomes wrote...

Solid N7 wrote...

well javierbegazo said in other thread all these complains come from pc gamers and they make multiple accounts to said all these bull**** and I agree with these changes and I hope with these changes the hardcore roleplaying otakus aka "pc gamers" will leave these forums.

well console kiddie if you want to play the "i hate the other platform buhuhu" game fine. to me, console kiddies like you who want gaming transfered to consoles and consoles only are worse then crap on my shoes. reason is: there are games for pc, and there are games for consoles. if you cant accept this, well drink bleach and die or just stop playing games!


side note: hope i wasn't too rude but guys like that one annoy me THAT much...

again not all the pc gamers "only" the one that make silly complains and make threats that they will not buy the game when there is so little information , also these pc gamers make assumptions that they are  the only ones that buy bioware games when the pc market is broken thanks to the piracy.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I support the devs by buying the game. If the game is not worth it then I won't buy it. So far I am not thrilled about the info released so far. Maybe I am wrong and it will be a great game. I will certainly not pre-order until it becomes obvious that it's not a ME2 clone in the DA world.

[Addai]

Captain Jazz wrote...

How much storyline transferred from NWN to NWN2? Do we really want to see the warden strolling around Ferelden, taking out ogres with a harsh stare and flattening battalions of hurlocks with a raised eyebrow?

That sounds kind of cool actually.  Eyebrow of Doom! 

[iTomes]

Solid N7 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

Solid N7 wrote...

well javierbegazo said in other thread all these complains come from pc gamers and they make multiple accounts to said all these bull**** and I agree with these changes and I hope with these changes the hardcore roleplaying otakus aka "pc gamers" will leave these forums.

well console kiddie if you want to play the "i hate the other platform buhuhu" game fine. to me, console kiddies like you who want gaming transfered to consoles and consoles only are worse then crap on my shoes. reason is: there are games for pc, and there are games for consoles. if you cant accept this, well drink bleach and die or just stop playing games!


side note: hope i wasn't too rude but guys like that one annoy me THAT much...

again not all the pc gamers "only" the one that make silly complains and make threats that they will not buy the game when there is so little information , also these pc gamers make assumptions that they are  the only ones that buy bioware games when the pc market is broken thanks to the piracy.

ahh im fine with that.... i guess.  but keep in mind: its not always about "hardcore roleplay gaming" but about comfort. i guess we pc gamers just saw much too much horrible console ports that we slowly are starting to get a little annoyed if games that usually are better to control on a pc are made for consoles and then are horribly on pc. but i guess that wont happen here... other way round its propably now gettin a little better for consoles too so thats alright. but always keep in mind console players arent better: often the fact that there are games out there you usually only play on pc is ignored and the fact that those usually are strategy games even more, theyre actually often called "dummie" games. besides, the piracy thing is slowly getting better, because (for example) it totally sucks to download a game that is many GB big with a torrent or something. 
and a tip for the future: dont trivialize hardcore PC-gamer as "whining uhhh everything is going to be bad" spammer, propably those are out there, propably not but saying something like this only insults the wrong!

[Solid N7]

iTomes wrote...

Solid N7 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

Solid N7 wrote...

well javierbegazo said in other thread all these complains come from pc gamers and they make multiple accounts to said all these bull**** and I agree with these changes and I hope with these changes the hardcore roleplaying otakus aka "pc gamers" will leave these forums.

well console kiddie if you want to play the "i hate the other platform buhuhu" game fine. to me, console kiddies like you who want gaming transfered to consoles and consoles only are worse then crap on my shoes. reason is: there are games for pc, and there are games for consoles. if you cant accept this, well drink bleach and die or just stop playing games!


side note: hope i wasn't too rude but guys like that one annoy me THAT much...

again not all the pc gamers "only" the one that make silly complains and make threats that they will not buy the game when there is so little information , also these pc gamers make assumptions that they are  the only ones that buy bioware games when the pc market is broken thanks to the piracy.

ahh im fine with that.... i guess.  but keep in mind: its not always about "hardcore roleplay gaming" but about comfort. i guess we pc gamers just saw much too much horrible console ports that we slowly are starting to get a little annoyed if games that usually are better to control on a pc are made for consoles and then are horribly on pc. but i guess that wont happen here... other way round its propably now gettin a little better for consoles too so thats alright. but always keep in mind console players arent better: often the fact that there are games out there you usually only play on pc is ignored and the fact that those usually are strategy games even more, theyre actually often called "dummie" games. besides, the piracy thing is slowly getting better, because (for example) it totally sucks to download a game that is many GB big with a torrent or something. 
and a tip for the future: dont trivialize hardcore PC-gamer as "whining uhhh everything is going to be bad" spammer, propably those are out there, propably not but saying something like this only insults the wrong!

I understand your point, but because the pc market  is broken is the reason that  the pc gamers get always crappy ports.

[iTomes]

"I understand your point, but because the pc market is broken is the reason that the pc gamers get always crappy ports."



wouldn't say its totally broken yet, but i think there will be radical changings that many people will propably hate (like that new ubisoft system).

[Kenrae]

iTomes wrote...

"I understand your point, but because the pc market is broken is the reason that the pc gamers get always crappy ports."

wouldn't say its totally broken yet, but i think there will be radical changings that many people will propably hate (like that new ubisoft system).

Many copies are sold through Steam and other download methods, the PC market isn't broken at all.

[PanosSmirnakos]

The fact that most of us have paid and registered for Bioware games and also spend some time here in this forum is proof enough that we support Bioware. No? Because today's pc users, with 2-3 mouse clicks are able to download illegally video games, music, movies etc. if they want. It's all about choice today. Am I wrong or it's a taboo to mention this?

My main concern about DA 2 isn't the new story and characters. I have blind faith to the writers that they will provide us, at least, a story above average standards. My main concern about DA 2 is that it's going to be released too soon. DAO was in development for more than 5 years. The result of it was a massive game, longer than 100 hours (for me) which was very rich in choices and had extremely high replay value. I doubt that DA 2 is going to be as long as the original game and will have the same replay value. Plus, Awakening was released too soon, was obviously rushed and was one of the buggiest games I've ever played, so most of us already have a bad taste about the Dragon Age franchise. So, I'm not so optimistic about what I should expect from DA 2 regarding the glitches / bugs and fixes / patches which DA 2 probably is going to suffer / have. The first game didn't give us the best example in this area and was in development for far longer. Also DA 2 this time isn't going to play alone in the pc rpg genre, Witcher 2 and Diablo 3 look fantastic and superior and right now are stronger candidates for my next rpg experience. Let's hope Bioware is going to prove me wrong, but I have my doubts from the info I’ve gathered so far.

Modifié par PanosSmirnakos, 21 juillet 2010 - 10:43 .

[Ken555]

DA2 seems like its going to ok, as long as it doesn't have as many bugs as Awakening it should be ok but DRagon Age Origins was the true game.

[MistySun]

Well i thought games like Oblivion, Fable. The Witcher, were good games...but i only played through them once. I felt no need to play through them again.

And then along comes DAO. Now i just cannot remember how many playthroughs i have made since owning this awesome game.

We take each game on it's own merit. If we love it, we praise it. if we don't like it, we shelve it.

We await DA2. Let us pray it will prove as good as a game as DAO was.
Let us thank the Devs for all their hard work and dedication. Hats off  to you all.

As the Gran old Oak would say...A tree i be for all to see, and as i speak in rhymes does that make me a poet-tree?
Not all words were accurate but i loved the old oaks poetry.  

[Tirigon]

Solid N7 wrote...

again not all the pc gamers "only" the one that make silly complains and make threats that they will not buy the game when there is so little information , also these pc gamers make assumptions that they are  the only ones that buy bioware games when the pc market is broken thanks to the piracy.

Not that again....

FYI, piracy in consoles is almost as high as on PC, and it´s increasing.

The only difference is that it´s a little bit harder.

[joriandrake]

the console piracy growth is true, especially in China and Russia

[bjdbwea]

David Gaider wrote...

We'd be sincerely sad to lose you, but as I've said many times we're well aware that we can't please everyone. Hopefully you change your mind or, as you suggest, the next game is more to your liking.

In other words: Too bad you don't like it, but you are acceptable losses.

That's a kind of reply I've read repeatedly on these forums, including the ME 2 forums when some developer graced people with a reply. The general idea has to be that the targeted mainstream will make up losses in sales to those annoying, never satisfied  RPG fans.

But how did that turn out for ME 2? Not all that great, it seems. The sales numbers are about equal, aren't they. It certainly isn't far-fetched to assume that traditional RPG players are a much larger percentage of DA fans than was the case for ME. I wonder if the mainstream would really be able to make up the losses if those fans would refuse to buy the game in large numbers (which I doubt though).

Modifié par bjdbwea, 21 juillet 2010 - 11:08 .

[Tirigon]

iTomes wrote...

"I understand your point, but because the pc market is broken is the reason that the pc gamers get always crappy ports."

wouldn't say its totally broken yet, but i think there will be radical changings that many people will propably hate (like that new ubisoft system).

Which was a huge bonus to piracy, because it forces people who would otherwise buy the game to pirate it, or they won´t be able to play it at all.

Ubisoft´s anti-piracy policy can well be used as a synonym for "EPIC FAIL".

[Tirigon]

bjdbwea wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

We'd be sincerely sad to lose you, but as I've said many times we're well aware that we can't please everyone. Hopefully you change your mind or, as you suggest, the next game is more to your liking.

In other words: Too bad you don't like it, but you are acceptable losses.

That's a kind of reply I've read repeatedly on these forums, including the ME 2 forums when some developer graced people with a reply. The general idea has to be that the targeted mainstream will make up losses in sales to those annoying, never satisfied  RPG fans.

Well, do you expect Gaider or someone else of BioWare to visit the haters and beg on their knees to support them or what?

[Merllle]

MistySun wrote...

And then along comes DAO. Now i just cannot remember how many playthroughs i have made since owning this awesome game.

Glad to know I'm far from being the only one.