454 réponses à ce sujet

[Amentep]

BLunted wrote...
I guess i set myself up for that, but my main point was that I wished they were making a sequel to origins and not an entirely new game and slapping a #2 on the end of it. Bah, I'm out

I will confess that to some degree what we've seen about DA2 fits more with the Japanese idea of a "Gaiden" or side story (since it partially runs concurrently with DA:O).  I imagine if this was advertised as Dragon Age: The Champion of Kirkwall (like how Fallout: New Vegas isn't a continuation from Fallout 3 (which itself wasn't a direct continuation for Fallout 2)) as opposed to Dragon Age 2 there wouldn't be the furor we have seen. 

For better or worse, throwing a "2" on something creates the expectation that its going to continue the story set up in the "1" of the same name.  And I think that's where the problem a lot of players are having.  To compare, it'd have been like if ME2 started with the death of Shepperd and then forced you to create a new character who the story was going to be about; player's expectations wouldn't have been met.

That said, I'm willing to take the game on the terms its being built, ie for what it is rather than what it isn't (or what I felt it could have been or anything like that).  If the previews continue to interest me in THIS game then I'll get it.  Otherwise I won't. 

Ultimately the only choice a consumer has is to buy/not buy a product.

[joriandrake]

argh, great text o' wallz!!!


please people use Enter, sometimes more than once

Modifié par joriandrake, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:23 .

[trying_touch]

suck up...



but honestly... i like the talking protagonist, the potential of more character depth (being human only option), and maybe seeing your character age (ten year in-game span)...



and yeah, like mass effect, as y'all complain... just set in high fantasy and has gaymance (i hope)...

[David Gaider]

Bratt1204 wrote...
Really?? When did I say that, exactly? Please do not put words in other poster's mouths - You're making yourself look rather foolish 

It's almost as if they're inferring things you didn't even say, or reading a tone into what you've written that you never intended. It's clearly very unfair that they would do this to you, I agree.

[Arttis]

David Gaider wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...
Really?? When did I say that, exactly? Please do not put words in other poster's mouths - You're making yourself look rather foolish 

It's almost as if they're inferring things you didn't even say, or reading a tone into what you've written that you never intended. It's clearly very unfair that they would do this to you, I agree.

Must know in order to let another thread die...Will DA2 be about the same in terms of Solo play as DA:O?
Yes people should stop doing that inorder to make these discussions more productive.

[joriandrake]

David Gaider wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...
Really?? When did I say that, exactly? Please do not put words in other poster's mouths - You're making yourself look rather foolish 

It's almost as if they're inferring things you didn't even say, or reading a tone into what you've written that you never intended. It's clearly very unfair that they would do this to you, I agree.

I see what you did there

[Azdeus]

javierabegazo wrote...

to even have any choice at all in story, there's got to be a great degree of vagueness about the general story line, to accomodate the different choices and make them all cohesive.

The more established story, the less choice. Quite honestly, I'm looking forward to a better told narrative in DA2 for the fact that atleast his race is set in stone

Here's another post

I suspect I'm kind of alone in thinking this, but I would very much liked to build my own story rather then follow a set story.

As for that screenshot/quote, it'd be awesome to actually be put in those situations as an Elf or Dwarf, becoming a Champion of Kirkwall due to your great achievments or political machinations despite being an elf or dwarf. One can dream atleast.

[Arttis]

BUild your own story?

Get the toolset....

[Amentep]

Azdeus wrote...
As for that screenshot/quote, it'd be awesome to actually be put in those situations as an Elf or Dwarf, becoming a Champion of Kirkwall due to your great achievments or political machinations despite being an elf or dwarf. One can dream atleast.

Of course it'd be less fun if your Elf or Dwarf was never able to get any kind of acclaim at all because they were an elf or a dwarf regardless of what they actually did.  Until the player got so mad they started attacking the people who'd stolen the credit for their actions and then was subdued by the Kirkwall guard, thown into prison, uncerimoniously hanged and dumped into an unmarked grave while some Human becomes Champion of Kirkwall...

[aries1001]

According to this transcript from the Dragon Age 2 podcast

https://docs.google....c26VZQHsyrK6llw

Mike Laidlaw says that

ML: That's really the approach  we've been taking. The Executive Producer, Mark Derrick, and myself have had any number of long talks about this and we kind of look at Dragon Age as a Grand kind of campaign.  It's not an individual adventure, it's not just a single movie, and it's not even something that we really want to limit to something like a trilogy. We want to treat this like it's a world that evolves, and changes, that I guess as the players are interacting with the games and the novels, you name it, but definitely with the games being the Flagship items. That' they're seeing Thedas, and the setting, and the characters that they know grow and evolve over time.
 
It's been a really challenging approach because it'd be really easy to just knock off, " oh lets just do , lets just staple two Arch Demons together two wardens together, and we're done, there's a sequel." 
 
But instead what we wanted to do is kind of look at a new angle for the world, with new stories, and what can we do to tell a story not just of Bob, but of the Age that Bob lives in.

This to me suggest that Bioware, and the devs. really see Dragon Age: Origins as the beginning of an open world where the can tell stories for literally a 100 years or - or least stories that lasts a 100 years.

Bethesda, say, did not call their sequels TES 1-4, but gave them a different name from Arena, to Daggerfall, Morrowind and latest Oblivion. This is the way it is done correctly, I find. This means that players, new or old, don't expect the game to be more of the same e.g. to be about the Grey Warden.
Or maybe Bioware did not communicate this out the the people on these forums very well? I rememmber when Ray and Greg (the studio bosses) and the Lead Director and the Project Director were asked if and when Dragon Age would be a trilogy like Mass Effect, the answers were sort of floating, and they weren't given some real info on this. I think they said something like, yes, maybe it will be a trilogy or something like that.

As for as Hawke's story goes, I'm excited about the new narrative structure of the game, and to find out on just how Hawke became the Champion of Kirkwall. I'm a bit worried about the combat side of things, however, I'm not too worried, though, since I simply don't have time anymore to wait for people to move to their positions and attack the enemies. I don't mind challenging and difficult combat, and to me, it makes sense to have cooldowns period before you can use say spell or an ability again. Also, the plot for the game sound way too much like the plot for Mass Effect 2 - gather allies and become the Champion of Ferelden by any means necessary. ME2's plot is like: Gather the worst npcs in the Galaxy, then combat these space monsters and aliens. I hope DA2 won't be like this - that you're forced to recruit what in a D&D setting would ne chaotic eviil characters...

[Azdeus]

Amentep wrote...
Of course it'd be less fun if your Elf or Dwarf was never able to get any kind of acclaim at all because they were an elf or a dwarf regardless of what they actually did.  Until the player got so mad they started attacking the people who'd stolen the credit for their actions and then was subdued by the Kirkwall guard, thown into prison, uncerimoniously hanged and dumped into an unmarked grave while some Human becomes Champion of Kirkwall...

Actually, all that actually sounds like possibly being fun, if well executed - well except the execution part.
Hunted and hated can be just as fun in my own opinion.

Arttis wrote...

BUild your own story?
Get the toolset....

Not my point, now was it?

[Arttis]

I believe you wanted to control your story.

Toolset lets you.

While you are also able to buy the story which is where you have less control.

Just saying...

[bzombo]

David Gaider wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...
Really?? When did I say that, exactly? Please do not put words in other poster's mouths - You're making yourself look rather foolish 

It's almost as if they're inferring things you didn't even say, or reading a tone into what you've written that you never intended. It's clearly very unfair that they would do this to you, I agree.

lol! this post sums it all up.

[Tirigon]

Azdeus wrote...


I suspect I'm kind of alone in thinking this, but I would very much liked to build my own story rather then follow a set story.

As for that screenshot/quote, it'd be awesome to actually be put in those situations as an Elf or Dwarf, becoming a Champion of Kirkwall due to your great achievments or political machinations despite being an elf or dwarf. One can dream atleast.

You´re not alone, I totally agree with both your statements.

[Tirigon]

Amentep wrote...


Of course it'd be less fun if your Elf or Dwarf was never able to get any kind of acclaim at all because they were an elf or a dwarf regardless of what they actually did.  Until the player got so mad they started attacking the people who'd stolen the credit for their actions and then was subdued by the Kirkwall guard, thown into prison, uncerimoniously hanged and dumped into an unmarked grave while some Human becomes Champion of Kirkwall...

Or my Arcane Warrior Bloodmage Elf singlehandedly kills or mindcontrols the entire Kirkwall guard, declares herself Champion and has every racist ass in the country hanged.

That is actually a much more probable outcome.

[AlanC9]

Amentep wrote...
For better or worse, throwing a "2" on something creates the expectation that its going to continue the story set up in the "1" of the same name.  And I think that's where the problem a lot of players are having. 

Why do people expect that?  KotOR2 didn't, Fallout 2 didn't, even NWN1's expansions didn't, let alone NWN2. Of the NWN2 expansions, MotB did but SoZ didn't.

[dheer]

[quote]
ML: That's really the approach  we've been taking. The Executive Producer, Mark Derrick, and myself have had any number of long talks about this and we kind of look at Dragon Age as a Grand kind of campaign.  It's not an individual adventure, it's not just a single movie, and it's not even something that we really want to limit to something like a trilogy. We want to treat this like it's a world that evolves, and changes, that I guess as the players are interacting with the games and the novels, you name it, but definitely with the games being the Flagship items. That' they're seeing Thedas, and the setting, and the characters that they know grow and evolve over time.
 
It's been a really challenging approach because it'd be really easy to just knock off, " oh lets just do , lets just staple two Arch Demons together two wardens together, and we're done, there's a sequel." 
 
But instead what we wanted to do is kind of look at a new angle for the world, with new stories, and what can we do to tell a story not just of Bob, but of the Age that Bob lives in.[/quote]
[/quote]
Well, that's the first time I've heard of their vision for Dragon Age and it's rather depressing really. Instead of getting a grand continuous tale, we're getting a history lesson by getting to play some random person every few years. A setting is just the background, a pallette to use to tell a story not the focal point.

Our character is how we view the universe we're in. Kind of a looking glass. If they change the lens every time, we will lose focus and so will the series, I believe.

[meschert]

dheer wrote...

Well, that's the first time I've heard of their vision for Dragon Age and it's rather depressing really. Instead of getting a grand continuous tale, we're getting a history lesson by getting to play some random person every few years. A setting is just the background, a pallette to use to tell a story not the focal point.

Our character is how we view the universe we're in. Kind of a looking glass. If they change the lens every time, we will lose focus and so will the series, I believe.

I'd rather have a grand new epic adventure each time, rather than just stick with the same characters.

I think the setting and background of the Dragon Age universe has so much in it to explore and develop, why stick with one little Blight time period in Ferelden?

I'm hoping for a DLC or some type of chapter someday that has you at the peak of the Tevinter's glory.  Who wouldn't want to see the elven city sink?

[bzombo]

meschert wrote...

dheer wrote...

Well, that's the first time I've heard of their vision for Dragon Age and it's rather depressing really. Instead of getting a grand continuous tale, we're getting a history lesson by getting to play some random person every few years. A setting is just the background, a pallette to use to tell a story not the focal point.

Our character is how we view the universe we're in. Kind of a looking glass. If they change the lens every time, we will lose focus and so will the series, I believe.

I'd rather have a grand new epic adventure each time, rather than just stick with the same characters.

I think the setting and background of the Dragon Age universe has so much in it to explore and develop, why stick with one little Blight time period in Ferelden?

I'm hoping for a DLC or some type of chapter someday that has you at the peak of the Tevinter's glory.  Who wouldn't want to see the elven city sink?

new epic sounds good. too many sequels with the same character will have us as demigods at level 750. we could just punch everyone to death. unless we get amnesia and have to relearn, but that would be hokey and lame.

[Demx]

aries1001 wrote...

According to this transcript from the Dragon Age 2 podcast

https://docs.google....c26VZQHsyrK6llw

Mike Laidlaw says that

ML: That's really the approach  we've been taking. The Executive Producer, Mark Derrick, and myself have had any number of long talks about this and we kind of look at Dragon Age as a Grand kind of campaign.  It's not an individual adventure, it's not just a single movie, and it's not even something that we really want to limit to something like a trilogy. We want to treat this like it's a world that evolves, and changes, that I guess as the players are interacting with the games and the novels, you name it, but definitely with the games being the Flagship items. That' they're seeing Thedas, and the setting, and the characters that they know grow and evolve over time.
 
It's been a really challenging approach because it'd be really easy to just knock off, " oh lets just do , lets just staple two Arch Demons together two wardens together, and we're done, there's a sequel." 
 
But instead what we wanted to do is kind of look at a new angle for the world, with new stories, and what can we do to tell a story not just of Bob, but of the Age that Bob lives in.

This to me suggest that Bioware, and the devs. really see Dragon Age: Origins as the beginning of an open world where the can tell stories for literally a 100 years or - or least stories that lasts a 100 years.

Bethesda, say, did not call their sequels TES 1-4, but gave them a different name from Arena, to Daggerfall, Morrowind and latest Oblivion. This is the way it is done correctly, I find. This means that players, new or old, don't expect the game to be more of the same e.g. to be about the Grey Warden.
Or maybe Bioware did not communicate this out the the people on these forums very well? I rememmber when Ray and Greg (the studio bosses) and the Lead Director and the Project Director were asked if and when Dragon Age would be a trilogy like Mass Effect, the answers were sort of floating, and they weren't given some real info on this. I think they said something like, yes, maybe it will be a trilogy or something like that.

As for as Hawke's story goes, I'm excited about the new narrative structure of the game, and to find out on just how Hawke became the Champion of Kirkwall. I'm a bit worried about the combat side of things, however, I'm not too worried, though, since I simply don't have time anymore to wait for people to move to their positions and attack the enemies. I don't mind challenging and difficult combat, and to me, it makes sense to have cooldowns period before you can use say spell or an ability again. Also, the plot for the game sound way too much like the plot for Mass Effect 2 - gather allies and become the Champion of Ferelden by any means necessary. ME2's plot is like: Gather the worst npcs in the Galaxy, then combat these space monsters and aliens. I hope DA2 won't be like this - that you're forced to recruit what in a D&D setting would ne chaotic eviil characters...

To be honest, I've never read a story or watched a TV series in which using a squeal indicated that the protagonist from the first story is left in the dust, while he/she is still alive. I've only seen this done with spin-offs. When people think about sequels, they believe that the continuation will add to the story not take away elements from the first.

[whop42]

Siradix wrote...

aries1001 wrote...

According to this transcript from the Dragon Age 2 podcast

https://docs.google....c26VZQHsyrK6llw

Mike Laidlaw says that

ML: That's really the approach  we've been taking. The Executive Producer, Mark Derrick, and myself have had any number of long talks about this and we kind of look at Dragon Age as a Grand kind of campaign.  It's not an individual adventure, it's not just a single movie, and it's not even something that we really want to limit to something like a trilogy. We want to treat this like it's a world that evolves, and changes, that I guess as the players are interacting with the games and the novels, you name it, but definitely with the games being the Flagship items. That' they're seeing Thedas, and the setting, and the characters that they know grow and evolve over time.
 
It's been a really challenging approach because it'd be really easy to just knock off, " oh lets just do , lets just staple two Arch Demons together two wardens together, and we're done, there's a sequel." 
 
But instead what we wanted to do is kind of look at a new angle for the world, with new stories, and what can we do to tell a story not just of Bob, but of the Age that Bob lives in.

This to me suggest that Bioware, and the devs. really see Dragon Age: Origins as the beginning of an open world where the can tell stories for literally a 100 years or - or least stories that lasts a 100 years.

Bethesda, say, did not call their sequels TES 1-4, but gave them a different name from Arena, to Daggerfall, Morrowind and latest Oblivion. This is the way it is done correctly, I find. This means that players, new or old, don't expect the game to be more of the same e.g. to be about the Grey Warden.
Or maybe Bioware did not communicate this out the the people on these forums very well? I rememmber when Ray and Greg (the studio bosses) and the Lead Director and the Project Director were asked if and when Dragon Age would be a trilogy like Mass Effect, the answers were sort of floating, and they weren't given some real info on this. I think they said something like, yes, maybe it will be a trilogy or something like that.

As for as Hawke's story goes, I'm excited about the new narrative structure of the game, and to find out on just how Hawke became the Champion of Kirkwall. I'm a bit worried about the combat side of things, however, I'm not too worried, though, since I simply don't have time anymore to wait for people to move to their positions and attack the enemies. I don't mind challenging and difficult combat, and to me, it makes sense to have cooldowns period before you can use say spell or an ability again. Also, the plot for the game sound way too much like the plot for Mass Effect 2 - gather allies and become the Champion of Ferelden by any means necessary. ME2's plot is like: Gather the worst npcs in the Galaxy, then combat these space monsters and aliens. I hope DA2 won't be like this - that you're forced to recruit what in a D&D setting would ne chaotic eviil characters...

To be honest, I've never read a story or watched a TV series in which using a squeal indicated that the protagonist from the first story is left in the dust, while he/she is still alive. I've only seen this done with spin-offs. When people think about sequels, they believe that the continuation will add to the story not take away elements from the first.

Creative decisions are too personal for a third person to reserve judgement. Studios like Bioware are a dying breed.  Art for art's sake people, art for art's sake. Keep up the good work Bioware. All the best with DA2.

"Give peace a chance" -  Stoned Orlessian Chevalier. 

[Demx]

whop42 wrote...

Creative decisions are too personal for a third person to reserve judgement. Studios like Bioware are a dying breed.  Art for art's sake people, art for art's sake. Keep up the good work Bioware. All the best with DA2.

"Give peace a chance" -  Stoned Orlessian Chevalier. 

I don't know how I was reserving judgment on calling the game more of a spin off than a squeal. There is nothing wrong with spin offs.

[dielveio]

Honestly I didn't expected to Dragon Age 2 be a sequel of my warden history.

But what I have seen so far had my curiosity piqued, the improvements that we'll see will make many of us change our minds for the better. Patience is what is needed now, bioware has shown us only screenshots from an early stage of development, let's wait 2-3 months and see what comes out.

[whop42]

Siradix wrote...

whop42 wrote...

Creative decisions are too personal for a third person to reserve judgement. Studios like Bioware are a dying breed.  Art for art's sake people, art for art's sake. Keep up the good work Bioware. All the best with DA2.

"Give peace a chance" -  Stoned Orlessian Chevalier. 

I don't know how I was reserving judgment on calling the game more of a spin off than a squeal. There is nothing wrong with spin offs.

Precisely. My quote was more of a reference than a reply. T'was an intended allusion. 

[Darth_Trethon]

David Gaider wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...
Really?? When did I say that, exactly? Please do not put words in other poster's mouths - You're making yourself look rather foolish 

It's almost as if they're inferring things you didn't even say, or reading a tone into what you've written that you never intended. It's clearly very unfair that they would do this to you, I agree.

Hahahahaha......the irony is quite epic right there.