68 réponses à ce sujet

[Valdan777]

Which is the best choice for a vangaurd as a bonus weapon? I was thinking SR training as AR wouldn't be needed with submachine guns and I hear the claymore isn't as good as the eviserator or scimitar. thoughts?

[Nizzemancer]

claymore

[Bozorgmehr]

If you know how to use the reload trick - get the Claymore. If you you don't (like to use the reload trick), I recommend SR training - the Viper is awesome.

[JaegerBane]

Valdan777 wrote...

Which is the best choice for a vangaurd as a bonus weapon? I was thinking SR training as AR wouldn't be needed with submachine guns and I hear the claymore isn't as good as the eviserator or scimitar. thoughts?

The traditional answer is the Claymore, though if you're like me and prefer some flexibility to your weapons over sheer damage per shot, I'd vote for the Viper through sniper rifle training. It really does address a lot of the weaknesses the Vanguard has.

[MarshalMeLee]

JaegerBane wrote...

The traditional answer is the Claymore, though if you're like me and prefer some flexibility to your weapons over sheer damage per shot, I'd vote for the Viper through sniper rifle training. It really does address a lot of the weaknesses the Vanguard has.

This.

Keep a save before you choose if you can though, so you can go back and try out what you've missed.

[Kronner]

Try all the options, personally I find the idea of having a Sniper Rifle on a Vanguard a big no-no from my biased role-playing view, so I always take Claymore anyways.

[NICKjnp]

Assault Rifle training.

[JaegerBane]

NICKjnp wrote...

Assault Rifle training.

Not sure about that. The Avenger is inferior to the Locust - something the Vanguard can wield as standard - in everything but clip size, while the Vindicator is basically a Viper with no scope and less punch.

[NICKjnp]

The vindicator deals equal damage to shields/barrier and armor. I use it as a medium range weapon.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 18 juillet 2010 - 10:22 .

[numotsbane]

I can never get the reload trick and I still love the claymore. I think for vanguards, it doesn't matter as much what weapon you choose. first time i went with the viper, but i hate sniper-casting zoom. the vindi is not worth it, vanguards are either too far away to charge (sniper range) or are standing next to the enemy unloading fiery death from shotgun.

[Mx_CN3]

As mentioned before, keep a save and try all of them. If you're on PC, mod it and have all of them. You can always just not carry/use one of your guns if you feel that you're cheating.

I personally go for SR training every time, as I don't have amazing aim with shotguns and thus a claymore wouldn't be the greatest thing to use, reload trick or not. I also just love the scimitar/viper combo.

[AntiChri5]

Vindicator.



Use it as a sniper rifle.

[JaegerBane]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Vindicator.

Use it as a sniper rifle.

The only real advantage the Vindi has over the Viper is the fact that it retains some of it's use at closer ranges... but you already have this covered thanks to the Scimitar and Liebershaft. Add to the fact that the Locust fills many of the same roles (and can be wielded by any Vanguard), and you have to wonder what use the Vindi would be overall.

I mean, the only thing it does better than the Locust is *very* long range fighting... which the Viper does better than the Vindicator.

Ultimately it's up to the player's tastes, but in terms of sheer effectiveness, it boils down to a choice between the Viper and Claymore, depending on whether you want flexibility, or prefer to play an all-or-nothing hit and fade Vanguard.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 19 juillet 2010 - 04:14 .

[NICKjnp]

I don't use the Locust because the Tempest is more devestating.... especially when you put Zaeed's squad disruptor ammo on it. I don't llike to stay back and snipe and I don't like to use the claymore reload trick. The vindicator is perfect for me.... which is why I say the Vindicator.

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Vindicator.

Use it as a sniper rifle.

The only real advantage the Vindi has over the Viper is the fact that it retains some of it's use at closer ranges... but you already have this covered thanks to the Scimitar and Liebershaft. Add to the fact that the Locust fills many of the same roles (and can be wielded by any Vanguard), and you have to wonder what use the Vindi would be overall.

I mean, the only thing it does better than the Locust is *very* long range fighting... which the Viper does better than the Vindicator.

Ultimately it's up to the player's tastes, but in terms of sheer effectiveness, it boils down to a choice between the Viper and Claymore, depending on whether you want flexibility, or prefer to play an all-or-nothing hit and fade Vanguard.

Vindicator has another advantage - when you use power you do not automatically zoom in, that annoyed me as hell with Viper so I picked Vindicator for my Adept. Viper is still better weapon imho, but that zoom in is something awful. Oh and Locust even cemented my decision never to take anything but Claymore as a Vanguard, it is excellent long range weapon, it has no recoil at all.

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
Vindicator has another advantage - when you use power you do not automatically zoom in, that annoyed me as hell with Viper so I picked Vindicator for my Adept. Viper is still better weapon imho, but that zoom in is something awful. Oh and Locust even cemented my decision never to take anything but Claymore as a Vanguard, it is excellent long range weapon, it has no recoil at all.

I'm not really sure that qualifies as an 'advantage' - it's irritating when the scope comes up when casting a power, but it doesn't affect your effectiveness - the power either succeeds or fails depending on your aim when casting, not after it. It's more of a style issue, and as a I say, the decision to take whichever gun depends on the player's taste. I'm simply talking from a point of cold, hard effectiveness.

The Locust... this little dude is fast becoming my fave gun. It's like having my old Marksman ability from ME1. 10 consecutive head shots on full auto I can manage repeatedly. It's like a compact, hand-held Vindicator.

[MadCat221]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

If you know how to use the reload trick - get the Claymore. If you you don't (like to use the reload trick), I recommend SR training - the Viper is awesome.

The sniper rifle doesn't fit in at all with the Vanguard.  The Vanguard's preferred tactic is to get up in people's faces and let the hair fly.  Claymore or AR spec is recommended, not the sniper rifle.  More flexible in range and doesn't make the Charge ability a moot point while equipped.

If you want to snipe, the Vanguard is the wrong class for you.

Modifié par MadCat221, 19 juillet 2010 - 06:55 .

[JaegerBane]

MadCat221 wrote...
The sniper rifle doesn't fit in at all with the Vanguard.  The Vanguard's preferred tactic is to get up in people's faces and let the hair fly.  Claymore or AR spec is recommended, not the sniper rifle.  More flexible in range and doesn't make the Charge ability a moot point while equipped.

If you want to snipe, the Vanguard is the wrong class for you.

Yeah, we've heard all this dogma before. The simple fact of the matter is that the player decides their preferred tactic, not the class. They're set up to favour certain scenarios, but the whole reason the player has a choice is to go down which route they prefer.

In the Vanguard's case, close combat is not always an option, and no amount of evangelism over Charge will change that. The AR choice favours medium range, which from the point of view of efficiency is pointless - A vanguard is either close enough to charge or too far away, never in between.

Kronner has an RP thing against Vanguards wielding Sniper Rifles, which is fine - but the simple fact the Vanguard favours close combat doesn't mean Sniper Rifles 'don't fit' in their gameplay.

[amcnow]

A maxed out Eviscerator is a force to be reckoned with. It can perform one-head-shot kills on many enemies on Insanity. So I say picking Claymore is a matter of preference and/or getting the reload trick to work.

With that said, I've never understood people who justify blowing the Vanguard's M.O. out of the water by turning it into the poor man's Infiltrator.

Claymore and AR training are both viable despite Eviscerator and M-12 Locust. Sniper rifles, while effective, are a no-no for roleplaying.

Modifié par amcnow, 19 juillet 2010 - 07:50 .

[amcnow]

JaegerBane wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...
The sniper rifle doesn't fit in at all with the Vanguard.  The Vanguard's preferred tactic is to get up in people's faces and let the hair fly.  Claymore or AR spec is recommended, not the sniper rifle.  More flexible in range and doesn't make the Charge ability a moot point while equipped.

If you want to snipe, the Vanguard is the wrong class for you.

Yeah, we've heard all this dogma before. The simple fact of the matter is that the player decides their preferred tactic, not the class. They're set up to favour certain scenarios, but the whole reason the player has a choice is to go down which route they prefer.

In the Vanguard's case, close combat is not always an option, and no amount of evangelism over Charge will change that. The AR choice favours medium range, which from the point of view of efficiency is pointless - A vanguard is either close enough to charge or too far away, never in between.

Kronner has an RP thing against Vanguards wielding Sniper Rifles, which is fine - but the simple fact the Vanguard favours close combat doesn't mean Sniper Rifles 'don't fit' in their gameplay.

Dogma is the basis of the roleplaying genre.  And contrary to what some may believe, Mass Effect 2 is a roleplaying game.  With that said, the only wrong way to play Mass Effect 2 is to not play at all.  It would be better to say, "Sniper rifles don't coincide with the true definition of the Mass Effect 2 Vanguard."

Modifié par amcnow, 19 juillet 2010 - 08:02 .

[JaegerBane]

amcnow wrote...

A maxed out Eviscerator is a force to be reckoned with. It can perform one-head-shot kills on many enemies on Insanity. So I say picking Claymore is a matter of preference and/or getting the reload trick to work.

With that said, I've never understood people who justify blowing the Vanguard's M.O. out of the water by turning it into the poor man's Infiltrator.

Claymore and AR training are both viable despite Eviscerator and M-12 Locust. Sniper rifles, while effective, are a no-no for roleplaying.

*All* the choices are viable - I don't think any of the weapon classes in ME2 are actually useless. Some guns are a bit rubbish but each class has at least one top performer.

This idea about 'blowing the class's MO out the water' isn't really anything more than personal opinion. I've never understood these people who seem to think the Vanguard is psychologically incapable of fighting at range, that fighting at ranges over a few feet away is somehow trying to be an infiltrator, but hey, it's ultimately up to what the player wants to use. Adepts are supposed to be, to quote the developers, the class 'that can handle enemies without firing a shot', does that mean they shouldn't use weapons at all? Practicality does eventually kick in.

Personally I'm of the opinion that any class that can wield the Locust, should, as it's essentially a hand-held assault rifle - superior even to the Avenger, amusingly enough, and hence it opens up the question as to what purpose ARs would be on a class that is supposed to be  close-combat fighter anyway....

Modifié par JaegerBane, 19 juillet 2010 - 08:35 .

[Kronner]

amcnow wrote...

A maxed out Eviscerator is a force to be reckoned with. It can perform one-head-shot kills on many enemies on Insanity. So I say picking Claymore is a matter of preference and/or getting the reload trick to work.

With that said, I've never understood people who justify blowing the Vanguard's M.O. out of the water by turning it into the poor man's Infiltrator.

Claymore and AR training are both viable despite Eviscerator and M-12 Locust. Sniper rifles, while effective, are a no-no for roleplaying.

True, my second favourite shotgun. Too bad I love Claymore even more. I still did one Evi only playthorugh (still took Claymore on the ship btw ). I also agree about the roleplaying and SR+Vanguard just seems weird to me. I can see the benefits, but if I wanted class that is excellent at all distances I would just mod the game. I prefer to be excellent at close combat and average at mid and long range combat. Just personal preference for Vanguard.

JaegerBane wrote...

...
This idea about 'blowing the
class's MO out the water' isn't really anything more than personal
opinion. I've never understood these people who seem to think the
Vanguard is psychologically incapable of fighting at range, that
fighting at ranges over a few feet away is somehow trying to be an
infiltrator, but hey, it's ultimately up to what the player wants to use.

...

I have Locust for that. But I agree with you, if someone likes the SR, why not use it.
About the Adept, they say it's best class to defeat enemy without firing a shot, not that it must not fire a shot iirc.

Modifié par Kronner, 19 juillet 2010 - 09:01 .

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
About the Adept, they say it's best class to defeat enemy without firing a shot, not that it must not fire a shot iirc.

You're splitting hairs here, Kronner. The intent behind Christina's point was pretty clear in the context of the video.

All classes have a clear bias towards a certain type of combat. It isn't somehow 'wrong' to choose a few options to allow them to fight outside that bias - that's why the choices exist in the first place.

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

Kronner wrote...
About the Adept, they say it's best class to defeat enemy without firing a shot, not that it must not fire a shot iirc.

You're splitting hairs here, Kronner. The intent behind Christina's point was pretty clear in the context of the video.

All classes have a clear bias towards a certain type of combat. It isn't somehow 'wrong' to choose a few options to allow them to fight outside that bias - that's why the choices exist in the first place.

Of course, but if you read difficulties description, you will find out that the game is balanced around Normal difficulty. I imgaine Adept should have no problems on that setting and would not have to fire off a single shot during the entire game.

[mosor]

I like the claymore, but I think I died less as a vanguard using the evi + viper. Claymore is great for rubbing out a strong enemy quickly, but with the evi I can charge in and take out a few lesser enemies at a time, which i found harder to do with the claymore.



The viper is a great gun for taking out armored enemies. It had really high DPS, and it's a great gun for the final battle. Just aim for the eyes and you'll take the terminator down in minutes even without a heavy weapon.



If you do take the claymore, then make sure your heavy pistol is upgraded. Using the predator (not the hand cannon) has really good DPS against armored targets. it's not as good as the viper, but it's close enough without the annoying scope.



Personally I'm with Jaegarbane on the AR. By the time you hit the collector ship, you pretty much have a high powered vanguard. You're going to want to charge in and blow away people with your shotgun. You really don't have to sit back and shoot behind cover all the time. The locust or the Viper is good enough to shoot at targets you can't charge at.