68 réponses à ce sujet

[Bozorgmehr]

Anyone can play whatever way they like it, a Vanguard can charge and shotgun everything to death (Claymore is the gun I prefered for this), but there're other ways to play. Check this solo Vanguard video

The Viper is a great weapon because: 1, provides long range capabilities - there're quite a few occasions when you cannot use Charge and the Viper is my favourite weapon to deal with those situations. 2, using Cryo Ammo (lvl 1) will freeze any unprotected enemy (100% - like all SR). 3, the Viper is the best weapon fighting Praetorians and Geth Primes for example (just watch how I take out the Prime in the video - it can't fight back).

I tried to make a unvanguardish video (not a charge fest) by using the other available abilities (short-medium-long range). I also tried to Charge through Tali's mission, but without squadies I couldn't defeat the Prime (and troopers) using Charge and the Claymore. Same with the next fight against Geth Destroyers.

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

I tried to make a unvanguardish video (not a charge fest) by using the other available abilities (short-medium-long range). I also tried to Charge through Tali's mission, but without squadies I couldn't defeat the Prime (and troopers) using Charge and the Claymore. Same with the next fight against Geth Destroyers.

Geth Prime is absolutely no problem for Claymore and Charge (no squadmates), same goes for Destroyers (just use Cryo against these Destroyers).

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

Geth Prime is absolutely no problem for Claymore and Charge (no squadmates), same goes for Destroyers (just use Cryo against these Destroyers).

With squadmates I have no problem, but without I can take out the Prime to be killed by the troopers. One Destroyer isn't a problem, but two will kill you (on fire > stunned > game over). I know your videos (really good) so if you say you've pulled it off, I have to try again (and again) until I can do it too.

[The Spamming Troll]

add the sniper rifle. ive never taken the sniper rifle and regretted it later. you can somewhat interchange the SMG and AR and even the shotty tho the shotty really only has one use so i take something that gives me variety. i really dont see the need to have a little better shotty with the claymore when i can add a whole new weapon to my arsenal. as a matter of fact sniping from a distance with teh vangaurd works great because i cfan get a few enemies put down then charge in with the eviserator and pump lead into them until they dont have any red health left, which means they are dead.



all opinion tho. any choice you make isnt the wrong one.

[amcnow]

JaegerBane wrote...

amcnow wrote...

A maxed out Eviscerator is a force to be reckoned with. It can perform one-head-shot kills on many enemies on Insanity. So I say picking Claymore is a matter of preference and/or getting the reload trick to work.

With that said, I've never understood people who justify blowing the Vanguard's M.O. out of the water by turning it into the poor man's Infiltrator.

Claymore and AR training are both viable despite Eviscerator and M-12 Locust. Sniper rifles, while effective, are a no-no for roleplaying.

*All* the choices are viable - I don't think any of the weapon classes in ME2 are actually useless. Some guns are a bit rubbish but each class has at least one top performer.

This idea about 'blowing the class's MO out the water' isn't really anything more than personal opinion. I've never understood these people who seem to think the Vanguard is psychologically incapable of fighting at range, that fighting at ranges over a few feet away is somehow trying to be an infiltrator, but hey, it's ultimately up to what the player wants to use. Adepts are supposed to be, to quote the developers, the class 'that can handle enemies without firing a shot', does that mean they shouldn't use weapons at all? Practicality does eventually kick in.

Personally I'm of the opinion that any class that can wield the Locust, should, as it's essentially a hand-held assault rifle - superior even to the Avenger, amusingly enough, and hence it opens up the question as to what purpose ARs would be on a class that is supposed to be  close-combat fighter anyway....

If you read my post correctly, then you'd know this was never a question of viability.  Roleplay is what's being argued here.  So pick every word apart all you want...

Do you even know what an M.O. is?  Some of us are simply saying sniping is not an inherent tactic of the vanguard.  If you're going to mock me, atleast familiarize yourself with the point I'm trying to get across first. 

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

With squadmates I have no problem, but without I can take out the Prime to be killed by the troopers. One Destroyer isn't a problem, but two will kill you (on fire > stunned > game over). I know your videos (really good) so if you say you've pulled it off, I have to try again (and again) until I can do it too.

OK I just tried it, wasn't hard at all, though I had to lower my resolution because FRAPS was killing my PC :/
Prime does nothing to you if you are in melee range (shoot, reload and melee - with Claymore you do all those thing at the same time), because he will try to melee you too, and will not use that machine gun
Take out minions first then the big guy.

Video is here -

www.youtube.com/watch


As for Destroyers, yes, I hate those fookers, but all you need to do is be careful and check your map to be sure second Destroyer is not anywhere close, then it's just one shot and he's frozen.

Modifié par Kronner, 20 juillet 2010 - 07:30 .

[ajayatfringefx]

Another of these threads? lol. Anyway it is totally up to you. If you have good hand-eye coordination, the claymore would be best suited to you, while if you struggle with shooters, the AR might be more helpful. The SR training is beneficial if you can't use charge properly/ can't reach a target.

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

OK I just tried it, wasn't hard at all, though I had to lower my resolution because FRAPS was killing my PC :/
Prime does nothing to you if you are in melee range (shoot, reload and melee - with Claymore you do all those thing at the same time), because he will try to melee you too, and will not use that machine gun
Take out minions first then the big guy.

Video is here -

www.youtube.com/watch


As for Destroyers, yes, I hate those fookers, but all you need to do is be careful and check your map to be sure second Destroyer is not anywhere close, then it's just one shot and he's frozen.

Nice, I will give it a shot tonight - though I have to reload to get the Claymore first

[mosor]

Kronner wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

With squadmates I have no problem, but without I can take out the Prime to be killed by the troopers. One Destroyer isn't a problem, but two will kill you (on fire > stunned > game over). I know your videos (really good) so if you say you've pulled it off, I have to try again (and again) until I can do it too.

OK I just tried it, wasn't hard at all, though I had to lower my resolution because FRAPS was killing my PC :/
Prime does nothing to you if you are in melee range (shoot, reload and melee - with Claymore you do all those thing at the same time), because he will try to melee you too, and will not use that machine gun
Take out minions first then the big guy.

Video is here -

www.youtube.com/watch


As for Destroyers, yes, I hate those fookers, but all you need to do is be careful and check your map to be sure second Destroyer is not anywhere close, then it's just one shot and he's frozen.

If you get really close to a geth prime, you can pretty much punch him to death. If you keep punching him, he doesn't use it's machine gun much, and just charge the odd time he manages to get rounds off. I beat him to death a few times on my sentinel.

Modifié par mosor, 20 juillet 2010 - 01:51 .

[JaegerBane]

amcnow wrote...
If you read my post correctly<snip>

Don't be sensitive, amcnow. My post was not a mock - it was intended to highlight the fallacy of trying to claim that a Vanguard with a Viper is in any way a 'poor man's infiltrator'. The Viper isn't even suitable for a traditional infiltrator. It functions more like an advanced hand cannon, with more ammo, less recoil and a scope. Vanguards use Vipers in similar fashion to Soldiers, if anything.

The point about viability was merely a response to your own - since all classes are viable, it's meaningless to point out certain ones are, as it implies others are not.

And make no mistake - *you're* the one arguing about role play. This thread is actually just a discussion about what weapon is best for a Vanguard on the Collector ship. If you want to moan about munchkins and the death of role play, go make a thread on it. I very much doubt the OP could care less about whether you think it's acceptable for a Vanguard to wield anything long range.

[Cloaking_Thane]

I took AR and dont regret it at all, Tried Claymore but failed @ reload trick and Eviscerator works well.



Dont like taking a sniper as I'm much more deadly w/ and AR.

[amcnow]

JaegerBane wrote...

amcnow wrote...
If you read my post correctly

Don't be sensitive, amcnow. My post was not a mock - it was intended to highlight the fallacy of trying to claim that a Vanguard with a Viper is in any way a 'poor man's infiltrator'. The Viper isn't even suitable for a traditional infiltrator. It functions more like an advanced hand cannon, with more ammo, less recoil and a scope. Vanguards use Vipers in similar fashion to Soldiers, if anything.

The point about viability was merely a response to your own - since all classes are viable, it's meaningless to point out certain ones are, as it implies others are not.

And make no mistake - *you're* the one arguing about role play. This thread is actually just a discussion about what weapon is best for a Vanguard on the Collector ship. If you want to moan about munchkins and the death of role play, go make a thread on it. I very much doubt the OP could care less about whether you think it's acceptable for a Vanguard to wield anything long range.

It's obvious you don't consider role play to be a valid reason for making choices in an RPG.  That is your perogative.  My advice was intended for the OP.  Whether or not the OP considers my advice is up to the OP.  So I'm not going to waste anymore of my time on this.

Modifié par amcnow, 21 juillet 2010 - 07:25 .

[chool77]

the sniper

[Anezay]

I just finished my vanguard "Shepard dies" playthrough, and the claymore was alright for me. The viper is probably the better option, but I'm just trying to get a feel for all of the classes at the moment, and was trying to be as vanguard-ey as possible.

Can someone give advice for people who don't have the $7 to spend on the locust? I usually use the tempest as a small AR anyway, but you gotta remember that not everyone has the Kasumi DLC.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

The claymore. Trust me, later on it's worth it reload trick or not. It's also brilliant on higher difficulties.

[Neuzhelin]

I just wanted to get this straight

So its fine to roleplay and use claymore and build the whole experience around a "reload trick" (because lets face it, only by relying on a glitch can you be anywhere near scimitar or eviscerator dps wise) with bugged animation and a mellee swing that magically reloads the weapon but it is not fine for an Alliance commander and a Spectre (Saren sniped, remember) to use a sniper rifle?

EDIT:

The Viper SR adds variety to the gameplay, adds an way to be efficient at range for those unchargable encounters AND the highest dps against armor in game, so yea, I chose the Viper.

EDIT2:

Just recorded a situation where the SR has the obvious advantage over anything else for the vanguard (it is in the second part of this video)

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 22 juillet 2010 - 08:30 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Neuzhelin wrote...

I just wanted to get this straight

So its fine to roleplay and use claymore and build the whole experience around a "reload trick" (because lets face it, only by relying on a glitch can you be anywhere near scimitar or eviscerator dps wise) with bugged animation and a mellee swing that magically reloads the weapon but it is not fine for an Alliance commander and a Spectre (Saren sniped, remember) to use a sniper rifle?

EDIT:

The Viper SR adds variety to the gameplay, adds an way to be efficient at range for those unchargable encounters AND the highest dps against armor in game, so yea, I chose the Viper.

Agreed,

The whole point about rpg games is that you're free to develop a character the way you like it. If someone prefers not to use Charge and a shotgun, but to kill enemies from range using a pistol - they can. It isn't the most effective way, but its your character. I played with your favourite weapon selection (Scimitar and Viper) and with the Claymore (and with Evi and the Katana too). I enjoyed both, but can't say one's 'better' than the other - just different. Fortunately the OP can watch yours and Kronner's vids to see the difference and decide which path to follow - not to mention you can play again with a different setup for a different experience.

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...

(because lets face it, only by relying on a glitch can you

Once again, you think it's a glitch, lead gameplay designer says it is not a glitch. She called it an advanced tip that really helps with the Claymore.
Really hard to pick side here.

Also, you can clearly hear the heatsink is in the barrel when you can shoot, all the trick does is that you do not have to wait for Shepard to put the weapon down all the way. Basically, Shepard shoots as fast as possible, not as slow as possible. Not a glitch by a longshot. (You have to complete exactly 60% of the animation to be able to do it) IMHO the reload trick actually rewards player for somewhat decent aim (a miss with Claymore is far more punishing than miss with Scimitar) and aggressive style (you need to be very close to enemies for the Claymore to be effective).

Also, no one said Spectre cannot use Sniper, just some people THINK it is not the best option for VANGUARD role-playing wise. You can disagree, but that's about it. Viper is an excellent weapon, I like it, just do not use it on a Vanguard because of mine BIASED role-playing view.

And what's the deal with DPS, Scimitar (or any other fast firing weapons) will NEVER do as much damage per second IN GAME as they do on PAPER. DPS is a meaningless number. In game behaviour is what counts.

Modifié par Kronner, 21 juillet 2010 - 02:44 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

Once again, you think it's a glitch, lead gameplay designer says it is not a glitch. She called it an advanced tip that really helps with the Claymore.

This glitch or whatever to call it is not something Claymore exclusive. I use the glitch with my Adept a lot. Reloading any weapon will give the opportunity to fire or cast a power right after you hear a 'click'. The Claymore only has to be reloaded after every shot.

[Neuzhelin]

Agreed,

The whole point about rpg games is that you're free to develop a character the way you like it. If someone prefers not to use Charge and a shotgun, but to kill enemies from range using a pistol - they can. It isn't the most effective way, but its your character. I played with your favourite weapon selection (Scimitar and Viper) and with the Claymore (and with Evi and the Katana too). I enjoyed both, but can't say one's 'better' than the other - just different. Fortunately the OP can watch yours and Kronner's vids to see the difference and decide which path to follow - not to mention you can play again with a different setup for a different experience.

And this is a fine point. However I just had to point out the hypocrisy of critisising the role play of others when an individual clearly roleplays something very questionable (vanguards may only use shotguns and with the claymore you have to mellee swing after each shot)

Once again, you think it's a glitch, lead gameplay designer says it is not a glitch. She called
it an advanced tip that really helps with the Claymore.
Really hard
to pick side here.

And it is fine to roleplay that game designers never make mistakes and even when they do they never cover it up not even with euphemisms or positive meta language
It is much more convinient to rely on an "authority" figure instead of seeing things (in the animation and simply thinking about the part  where mellee swinging and reloading have nothing symbiotic  in a shooter RPG)  for what they are sometimes. It is a little bit too much for me.
But if you want to role play that the game is perfect as it is and the reported and unsolved issues are clearly working as intended, more power to you and your roleplay.

Bottom line is dragging role playing in this is meaningless as some enjoy very essentric things.

Nevertheless, I doubt the OP had role playing in mind to begin with so stick with my edit comment from the post above.

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 21 juillet 2010 - 03:24 .

[NICKjnp]

Ok... so since I'm the lone person who chooses AR training over Sniper and Claymore... here are my reasons.



1. I don't like to snipe. It is the main reason I don't play an infiltrator so picking up the sniper rifle would be a little pointless for me so I don't want it. When fighting I like to stay within charging range.... so the vindicator is a better choice for me.



2. It may not be a glitch to use the claymore trick but I don't like to have to do the trick over and over again. I like the scimitar far more than the claymore (I've tried it before).



3. I like to soften enemies up before I charge in so I prefer the vindicator over the locust because it seems to have a higher dps.



4. Sometimes I like to pull out the tempest on an enemy (especially when I have Zaeed's squad disruptor ammo on it).



5. Most important of all.... I don't play vanguards like everyone else on the forums. I like to play them as pure biotic (only 1 point in incendiary ammo... the rest in the biotic powers). Playing like this puts more emphasis on medium range at the start of the fight. I wish I could record it somehow... but I don't want to spend $200 on a good recording device for my 360.



If you want to know my build then ask... but I won't post it otherwise (it is fun though... and very viable even on Insanity).

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

This glitch or whatever to call it is not something Claymore exclusive. I use the glitch with my Adept a lot. Reloading any weapon will give the opportunity to fire or cast a power right after you hear a 'click'. The Claymore only has to be reloaded after every shot.

Yes, I know, Christina said so too. Though Claymore benefits the most from this trick.

Neuzhelin wrote...

And it is fine to roleplay that
game designers never make mistakes and even when they do they never
cover it up not even with euphemisms or positive meta language
It
is much more convinient to rely on an "authority" figure instead of
seeing things (in the animation and simply thinking about the part 
where mellee swinging and reloading have nothing symbiotic  in a
shooter RPG)  for what they are sometimes. It is a little bit too much
for me.
But if you want to role play that the game is perfect as it
is and the reported and unsolved issues are clearly working as
intended, more power to you and your roleplay.

Bottom line is dragging role playing in this is meaningless as some enjoy very essentric things.

Nevertheless, I doubt the OP had role playing in mind to begin with so stick with my edit comment from the post above.

I never said gameplay designers do not make mistakes. Where did that come from anyways?
You probably was not around when Christina came to these boards and posted how to make that trick herself. Reload trick has nothing to do with role-playing. It is a gameplay feature. I do not use Sniper Rifle on Vanguard because I just do not think it's necessary and it makes no sense for my Vanguards. Melee is the trigger for it because it is the only other attack Shepard has. You said that the melee makes it magically reload, that is BS. The shot is ready to go and THEN you can use melee to shoot faster, instead of waiting unnecessary extra time for Shepard to put the weapon to perfect horizontal position. All you do is cancel unnecessary extra animation. Saves time, kills faster, rewards.
But even when I did not know about the reload trick I used Claymore anyways, I simply love the weapon. The addition of Locust SMG makes Viper even more useless to me.

Modifié par Kronner, 21 juillet 2010 - 03:45 .

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...

Reload trick has nothing to do with role-playing. It is a gameplay feature. I do not use Sniper Rifle on Vanguard because I just do not think it's necessary and it makes no sense for my Vanguards. Melee is the trigger for it because it is the only other attack Shepard has. You said that the melee makes it magically reload, that is BS. The shot is ready to go and THEN you can use melee to shoot faster, instead of waiting unnecessary extra time for Shepard to put the weapon to perfect horizontal position.

*chuckles*

Kronner, I think it's a little dubious to bill this as a 'feature' when you refer to pointing a gun barrel at your target as 'waiting unnecessary extra time for Shepard to put the weapon to perfect horizontal position'. I mean, you're not far off justifying noclip cheats as 'features' on the basis of 'it's just bypassing the unnecessary time to walk around an obstacle'.

That said, whether you consider it a glitch doesn't really matter - this is a single player game, and the sole objective of such is to enjoy it. If you want to shoot shotgun shells out of your elbow, more power to you. I'll have fun playing my Adept who carries a heavier weapons load than a soldier and totes two bonus talents

I think the point was that people were trying to bring in 'role play' concepts into this discussion, apparently thinking that because the Vanguard is a class that favours short range fighting in it's stock form, that you're commiting some sort of cardinal RPG sin by trying out extra features like using a Sniper Rifle. If people want ot use their own opinion of what a class if as reason to pick and leave certain items, fine, but it seems a bit silly for this to be considered acceptable, but consider exploiting glitches/'Advanced Features' to be kosher.

But IIRC, you were'nt the one advocating such restrictions on other players

[JaegerBane]

amcnow wrote...
It's obvious you don't consider role play to be a valid reason for making choices in an RPG.  That is your perogative.  My advice was intended for the OP.  Whether or not the OP considers my advice is up to the OP.  So I'm not going to waste anymore of my time on this.

I'm at a loss as to what point this post has. If you'd prefer to go off and sulk rather than have a civil discussion, what's the point in announcing it?

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
And what's the deal with DPS, Scimitar (or any other fast firing weapons) will NEVER do as much damage per second IN GAME as they do on PAPER. DPS is a meaningless number. In game behaviour is what counts.

Ouch. I'm not really sure what there is to say about this. I can understand arguments about which style of weapon a player chooses, spike/burst vs continuous... but to actually out and out claim that mathematics are a lie is a bit... odd. No matter what I think of the number 2, if I add it to 1, I'll always get 3.

Similarly, if a gun does x damage a second, then no matter what I think of it, it will do more damage per second than one that does less.