15 réponses à ce sujet

[iTomes]

i agree with the op but: if fade spirits are images of human atributes wouldn't they're population increase with the count of humans with that attribute. for example if there are very much pride persons pride demons would be the result. if there are just persons spirits of justice would be the result. what fundates this theory is that the chant prohibites things like pride. i think the reason that andraste or whoever wrote the chant knew this and tried to keep the population of demons down that way.

[iTomes]

hmmm idk if the creation of fade spirits requires something....just look how many demons of anger we kill during the game.. if there was someone behind creating them they still would be extinct soon....

[iTomes]

"I guess that was "If there were nothin behind creating them".... right?"



hate being tired... i want to live in another timezone DAMMIT...we have 1:30 in the night right now... aaannyyyhoww: what i meant was if there was something special like blood magic they propably would be extinct soon, at least if you would have to create them on a purpose. everytime someone survives this mage-joining-ritual a demon dies, for example.

[iTomes]

well im not sure if thats necessary, at least not for the "good ghosts". what would that be like: "hello, im peace, i was brought to life when an orphanage bourned down". propably the spirits are also brought to life by strong blasts of an emotion. that would explain why you meet anger demons so often. if ones brought to life everytime someone freaks out...huiuiui

[iTomes]

im wondering: how many kinds of demons and "good ghosts" are there? i mean, we know 4 kinds of demons right now, but what about things like hunger... i think i even saw abominations of hunger in the fade, but never a demon of hunger. propably those are very rare.... but still, usually they should exist...

[Chuvvy]

Finally someone that uses hypothesis in the right context. Everyone seems to think hypothesis and theory are interchangeable. A hypothesis is based on observations. Theories have facts and studies behind them but have not been completely proven.

[Galatean]

SirShreK wrote...

Shah wyrd is a Demon encountered in the mage tower in DA:O. This guys Codex entry is very informative:

"A collection of powerful but undirected thoughts coalesced in the Fade.
Such a being is in direct opposition to singular focus and drive.
Distraction made flesh. The mind or minds that loosed this within the
Fade must have been powerful and ancient indeed.
"

In all honesty I had not paid enough attention to this codex entry until recently... simply because I was busy admiring the Yuasaris entry. There are stories within stories in DA and that according to me, this is a charming feature of the game and a testament to the efforts the creators have put into it. The only one game I will ever compare in depth to this game is Deus Ex Machina.

Anyway, Shah Wyrd's origin is interesting because it offers an alternative explanation to how fade spirits are born. The canonical (chantry-wise) explanation is the Maker created them as the first children. There is actually nothing in the game lore to contradict that. BUT there is little evidence to support it as well.. Hence an alternate theory is a welcome addition.

The null hypothesis I will present in short is this:

Fade spirits are born from colelctive conscious of local population and some blood-magic/blood-shed/death.

The Blood part is a pure guess, but we know that there is some definite connection between blood-shed and blood magic and Fade.

The important part is that almost all the Fade spirits are named after human Psyche. Valor, Justice, Pride etc. Justice at one point tells us that Demons are fade spirits that are corrupted by desire or envy. I would like to know how does it corrupt it into a demon with only one emotional trait. Justice's information, as you can see is in direct contradiction with the stated hypothesis. This is because, it means that Spirits already exist AND can change their character, pointing that at the beginnig of Chantry inspired creation story, there were spirits only of Lawful or Neutral or Good orientation. Chaotic and Evil appeared as aresult of mutation. Thus I am confused as to how to explain Shah Wyrd.

There can be two other explainations to explain Shah Wyrd:

1) He is a special case
2) Justice does not know the entire story, heck, he claims he does not know if the maker exists.... He does not indeed  seem to be very attached to exploring his world... And his explanation is a heresy... But Occam's razor goes against me here..

Interesting thoughts.

One nitpick, though. You don't propose a null hypothesis. You propose a hypothesis, and should the hypothesis be proven false, you assume the null hypothesis, which is usually the direct opposite. An example:

Hypothesis: Morrigan wears a bra.
Then, the null hypothesis will be;
Null Hypothesis: Morrigan does not wear a bra.

Should examination;) prove that the Hypothesis is false, one must then conclude that the Null Hypothesis holds.

[Grommash94]

No, no, I know what you are thinking. Don't worry, I am not here to debunk your theories; no I actually agree with this one.