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[Guns]

I thought a Human Noble character would get more options when confronting Howe, but nope. Didn't even get to torture him or make threats before he dies and he gets the last word. It's even worse that he's towards the end so I was so hyped by the time I reached him. It helps a little when you get to strip them of their wealth and everything at the end, but still disappointing as he's already dead so it only affects his family.

[thegreateski]

That's rather the point actually.

[Guns]

thegreateski wrote...

That's rather the point actually.

It's only disappointing because they made it that, revenge can certainly be satisfying. If we got the option to take him into the torture chamber it would've have been extremely satisfying. Seriously there was a torture chamber down the hall. So much missed potential Bioware

[thegreateski]

You're in the middle of "rescuing" Anora . . . you don't really have time to pop down the hall and torture some guy for a few hours.

[saruman85]

I know, I just faced him myself as a Human Noble actually. But if you've played another origin story you know that the talk with him is ALL new and specific to human noble. No generic threats that he shouts regardless of your origin - Tim Curry actually recorded all that dialogue just for one origin story. Not a bad deal in my opinion, but I guess him just dying afterwards is kinda anticlimactic.

Also, you DO get to threaten him - before the fight you can tell him you'll go for his wife and kids after you whack him. Not that it matters, 'cos some of the guards in Fort Drakon later reveal that they didn't even show up for his funeral.

Modifié par saruman85, 19 juillet 2010 - 12:01 .

[Sarah1281]

Guns wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

That's rather the point actually.

It's only disappointing because they made it that, revenge can certainly be satisfying. If we got the option to take him into the torture chamber it would've have been extremely satisfying. Seriously there was a torture chamber down the hall. So much missed potential Bioware

Revenge isn't really supposed to be all that satisfying. It's a pretty common theme that you obsessively chase vengeance and then, even if you don't regret taking that vengeance, you still don't feel the satisfaction or peace you were hoping to find.

[Guns]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Guns wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

That's rather the point actually.

It's only disappointing because they made it that, revenge can certainly be satisfying. If we got the option to take him into the torture chamber it would've have been extremely satisfying. Seriously there was a torture chamber down the hall. So much missed potential Bioware

Revenge isn't really supposed to be all that satisfying. It's a pretty common theme that you obsessively chase vengeance and then, even if you don't regret taking that vengeance, you still don't feel the satisfaction or peace you were hoping to find.

Again, that's simply not true or at least not all the time. That's why I love the movie Law Abiding Citizen it shows this exactly. The main character murders the killers of his family and makes it slow and painful. He pays the price for it being locked up in jail, but he has nothing to live for now that his family is gone so he doesn't care all that matters is that he got payback.

[Sarah1281]

Guns wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Guns wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

That's rather the point actually.

It's only disappointing because they made it that, revenge can certainly be satisfying. If we got the option to take him into the torture chamber it would've have been extremely satisfying. Seriously there was a torture chamber down the hall. So much missed potential Bioware

Revenge isn't really supposed to be all that satisfying. It's a pretty common theme that you obsessively chase vengeance and then, even if you don't regret taking that vengeance, you still don't feel the satisfaction or peace you were hoping to find.

Again, that's simply not true or at least not all the time. That's why I love the movie Law Abiding Citizen it shows this exactly. The main character murders the killers of his family and makes it slow and painful. He pays the price for it being locked up in jail, but he has nothing to live for now that his family is gone so he doesn't care all that matters is that he got payback.

And he was immediately at peace? I didn't say 'every single time anyone ever does revenge ever' like your 'that's simply not true all of the time' indicates. What I said was that it's a common theme that revenge, while human or even necessary sometimes if the bad guy will continue doing things like that, is ultimately empty. You can disagree about whether or not revenge is fulfilling but that doesn't change the fact that in fictional media - even when they do take the time to torture people to death - it doesn't make them happy.

And since Cauthrien shows up and catches you when you DON'T take hours to torture Howe you would have been caught and killed for sure if you'd wasted that much time.

[Bahlgan]

Guns wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Guns wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

That's rather the point actually.

It's only disappointing because they made it that, revenge can certainly be satisfying. If we got the option to take him into the torture chamber it would've have been extremely satisfying. Seriously there was a torture chamber down the hall. So much missed potential Bioware

Revenge isn't really supposed to be all that satisfying. It's a pretty common theme that you obsessively chase vengeance and then, even if you don't regret taking that vengeance, you still don't feel the satisfaction or peace you were hoping to find.

Again, that's simply not true or at least not all the time. That's why I love the movie Law Abiding Citizen it shows this exactly. The main character murders the killers of his family and makes it slow and painful. He pays the price for it being locked up in jail, but he has nothing to live for now that his family is gone so he doesn't care all that matters is that he got payback.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Blood for blood! Vengeance!

Why rely on your "Maker", in this case, to exact justice for you when nothing is to be done?
The answer to any problem is to take it into your own hands 

'cos some of the guards in Fort Drakon later reveal that they didn't even show up for his funeral.

Shows how much he is missed. If family doesn't care, then who shall? lol I don't! 

Modifié par Bahlgan, 19 juillet 2010 - 12:39 .

[Guns]

A shame he even got a funeral. I was thinking of how his head should be put in a nice fancy box and delivered to Loghaine before I decapitate him and spray his blood all over his daughter.

[Bahlgan]

Guns wrote...

A shame he even got a funeral. I was thinking of how his head should be put in a nice fancy box and delivered to Loghaine before I decapitate him and spray his blood all over his daughter.

Anora was pompous indeed. I was glad to have this happen. Though I didn't want her screwed over, so I jointed the marriage between Alistair and Anora, both sides win at least a little something in the mess of things. <3

[Zjarcal]

While I agree that the Howe confrontation was a bit anti-climatic (it should've included much more dialog and an option to stop Howe from having the last word), the idea that revenge is in most cases futile is completely right.

Normally I don't like to bring up other games but I feel that the story of Grand Theft Auto IV is a good example. The protagonist, Niko Bellic, has been obsessed with gaining revenge on a man who killed all his friends more than ten years ago. Every move and decision during the past decade has been made with the ultimate goal being to avenge his friends. Yet when the moment comes and he gets his revenge (if the player decides to exact revenge, since there's also the choice to let the man go) Niko feels nothing. He feels empty and claim to have gained no satisfaction from his revenge. It's almost as if it was all for nothing.

Obviously this sentiment doesn't apply to all individuals and sometimes satisfaction can be gained in a situation like this if revenge prevents further crimes from taking place (which is the case in the Howe scenario). My Cousland certainly enjoyed killing Howe (it was her main motivation through the whole game) and felt some satisfaction in ridding Ferelden of such a disease, but the truth is her family was still gone and no amount of revenge was going to bring them back. She was finally at peace but she realized that she should've been at peace for a long time ago.

[saruman85]

Guns wrote...

A shame he even got a funeral. I was thinking of how his head should be put in a nice fancy box and delivered to Loghaine before I decapitate him and spray his blood all over his daughter.

Apparently the Chantry had to pay people to turn up  according to the same guards anyway.

[Guns]

Wow. I didn't know he was that hated. I suppose it's I shouldn't be surprised he did more to others than just Highever.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

It would have been interesting to be given the option of torturing Howe. Just so people could sink to his level and feel all righteous about it.

[CoM Solaufein]

I shouldn't have read this, I'm not at this point with my human noble. But that does suckm you can get the revenge on him that he deserves.

[Sarah1281]

Howe: Isn't that precious? Is this where I lament the monster I helped create?

[Ulicus]

I'd have preferred some more pre-fight conversation. The option to tell your party to "stay out of it" (and thus taking Howe and his dudes on solo)... and, finally, an "interrupt" that allowed the Human Noble to step in and decapitate/stab him as he was delivering his last words.

"Maker spit on you! I deserved-"
*swoosh*/*stabbity*

Just something more up-close-and-personal, really. Howe dying on the floor in front of you was a bit dull.

Modifié par Ulicus, 19 juillet 2010 - 02:36 .

[Thiefy]

i think when people say they want more, it would be kind of like a mini cut scene of howe's death, similar to loghain's.

[Sarah1281]

Except the people who are ****ing they couldn't brutally torture him to death right there.

[saruman85]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Except the people who are ****ing they couldn't brutally torture him to death right there.

I dunno, he looked pretty brutally tortured to ME when he died.

Anyone else whittle him down to 1% health then pull out the Cousland Family Sword to land the killing blow? SO satisfying...

Modifié par saruman85, 19 juillet 2010 - 03:19 .

[balmung03]

I would have if I still had the sword, but since it stays at grey iron all game long, I sold it shortly after Lothering. It would have been great if you got a bonus scene for slaying him with that sword.

[Carmen_Willow]

I didn't need to torture him....in my DA:O universe, I just kicked him a couple of times while he was down but not out....well maybe it was more like 3-4 times just for good measure.

[DWSmiley]

A cut scene with a special finishing move would have been perfect. When Howe said "I deserved more," I was thinking "Well, then don't die so quickly". But I just wanted to twist the daggers and I figure I did anyway, for good measure. Torture would be descending to his level. There is no way that would make my character feel better after - just the opposite.

[Bahlgan]

saruman85 wrote...

Anyone else whittle him down to 1% health then pull out the Cousland Family Sword to land the killing blow? SO satisfying...

HAH! I used the Family Sword and Shield of Highever during the entire mission of Arl of Denerim's Estate! Used it to slay every last enemy my Warden fought, including that inbred swine Howe!

A cut scene with a special finishing move would have been perfect.

Agreed, 120 million percent! I personally envisoned my character just taking the Family Blade and sticking it between the eyes of Howe. After his little "I deserved more" speech, my character would probably ignite a final quote stating "Oh yes Howe, you do, you certainly do! THIS is for everyone you've slain, including those who trusted you most; my parents!!" and just pull an "Assassin's Creed" Altair style and violently jab the sword into his skull.. Or his throat.

Modifié par Bahlgan, 19 juillet 2010 - 05:54 .