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If Mass Effect 2/3 goes multiplayer, will it be the final straw? Would you boycott Bioware? [Psst. Read Bioware]


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#126
javierabegazo

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SithLordExarKun, and bjdbwea
Don't turn this thread into another "Dissappointment with Mass Effect 2?" Debate, that thread is alive and kicking.
http://social.biowar...797/296#3171601
If this thread is going to be about how "EA is the big bad wolf" then this thread will get locked.

If this thread is giong to be about how ME2's RPG mechanics are not satisfactory, then this thread will get locked, and you all will be redirected the Disappointment thread mentioned above.

If it's going to be a civil discussion about how adding Multiplayer (the mechanic itself) in ME2 or ME3 would ruin it for you, then it can stay open

Modifié par javierabegazo, 19 juillet 2010 - 04:16 .


#127
Mx_CN3

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bjdbwea wrote...


If you had read some of the developer's comments, you would see the indications. Of course you want evidence in the form of a clear statement such as "yes, we dumbed down the game to appeal to the shooter crowd". You want it because you know full well that no one is ever going to say something like that openly. So you can always claim no one has prove.

However, if you are honest, you can see that ME 2 did "go down the shooter route". You can like that better than part 1, that's completely up to you. But to deny the fact? What's that supposed to accomplish? The reasons are indeed anyone's guess. However, since the independent BioWare used to produce high quality RPGs, whereas now there are significant changes in their approach to ME and DA too, the most likely explanation is certainly the big change that happened when they sold out to EA. Again, you can like it better, but please don't try to deny the fact. Feel free to provide other possible explanations though.

See, I actually think that BioWare has been going down this road for a long time, and multiplayer is the next logical step in their plan.  A brief history to describe my reasoning (I will leave out MDK and Sonic because I have not played those games):
Baldur's Gate 1/2:  Top down game, lots of inventory, huge world, etc.  Basically D&D except on a computer with graphics.
Neverwinter Nights:  Very similar to BG, but you can directly control your character from 3rd person.  WASD to move, no longer a click to move thing.  Still lots of stats/inventory management.
KotOR:  3rd person only.  Choreographed fights, a lot less inventory management (at least, that's what I felt).  Smaller skill system.  Had enough action in it to really be called an action RPG (imo).
Jade Empire:  You only control your character, and do direct attacks.  Rolls taken out.  Basically a simple fighting game with in-depth conversation options, story, and character interactions.  A hybrid.
ME1:  A straight up shooter system. No character stats.
DA:  Seemed a lot like NWN, but with more blood.  I really don't know where to fit this, it certainly seems to be an outlier.
ME2:  More of a shooter, less skills, etc, we all know this story.

My point is that it seems that BioWare has been evolving their games to be more "actiony" for a long time, it is just most apparent with ME since it went from sword fighting (mostly) to shooting.  Multiplayer is the next step in the ladder, I believe.  And I should also point out that every game had a great story and dialogue, so who says that multiplayer will destroy it?  They were able to keep the RPG in the games all the time, despite getting more "actiony."

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Mx_CN3 wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...


Honestly I can think of a few games they ruined but off the top of my head I can think of alot of games they didnt ruin.

Mirrors edge
Crysis
Mass Effect
Dragon Age
Dead Space
Need for speed, though they did get progressively worse I thought underground was awesome
The Sims
Sports games

Not every company is out to screw the buyer, come on guys you can't  honestly think Bioware/EA will turn the back on the 3 million people who bought this game just to turn out another MoH or CoD.

Bad Company 2, also.  I mean, I'm not too fond of EA, but simply because they are attached to something doesn't mean it is bad.  It also doesn't mean that something that is bad (or that you think is bad) is entirely EA's fault.  Did any of you EA haters ever consider the possibility that BioWare had long intended to have multiplayer in ME?  That is, of course, assuming that that is even on their plans.  As I said earlier, the whole multiplayer in ME thing is entirely speculative.

And I suppose to answer the OP's title question:  no, I will not boycott BioWare because of multiplayer.  I also think that anyone that will or is even considering it is an idiot.


First of all, lets not be childish and resort to insults. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Second, NFS and the Sims are completely horrible. The fact that they try to release a NFS game every year worries me about the future of Mass Effect. And don't say that they don't affect it, because look at DA:2. DA:O came out last september, or november was it? The sequel is slated to be released by March 2011. That's way too soon.

The bolded statements seem... odd to me.  I do agree with both of them, however.  The only ones I have played for any reasonable amount out of that list are the BioWare ones, so I can't say I agree with them all.  In any case, in regards to the "insult," it is a hard fact that boycotting a company over a game feature is completely irrational.  I could definitely see it over something the company does, like Infinity Ward's mass firings, EA's constant rerelease of the same game, or something like that.  But a gameplay feature?  That's just silly.  However, as javier pointed out, this is all offtopic, I just wanted to clarify myself :)

In the end, I think that should they add multiplayer, that doesn't mean they'll half-ass anything in the game.  There is a reason BioWare is considered one of, if not the, best and it isn't because they do things sloppily.

Modifié par Mx_CN3, 19 juillet 2010 - 05:10 .


#128
SithLordExarKun

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PoliteAssasin wrote...

Your obviously ignorant to EA's track record.

You're obviously ignorant to the concept of the burden of proof.

PoliteAssasin wrote...
But EA is the reason DA:2 is going down the route they are, and it is the reason that Mass Effect 2 was more of  shooter

  Ah yes, more conspiracy theories from ME1 fanatics that are the "osamas" of these forums, then again, wheres any evidence to even indicate that EA was responsible for the outcome of ME2?

OH NOES DA2 HAS VOICE ACTORS EA IS EVIL!!!!! <--------- fails to see how this even indicates EA was responsible for this considering DA2's combat is largely the same with the same RPG mechanics.

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Just because EA already has BC2 and MoH doesn't mean they don't want another cash cow to bring in more money.

  Yes and this is somehow concrete proof that EA forced bioware to make ME2 a "shooter".

PoliteAssasin wrote...
They have a large shooter fan base, and directing Mass Effect at that fan base would bring in more money for them.

  So why(lets assume its true for this arguments sake) did DAO(a true RPG) outsell both ME1 AND ME2?

PoliteAssasin wrote...
DA:2 has pretty much the same combat as EA's popular LoTR games. No turned based fighting like in DA:O.

  Really? According to print magazine, as far as combat goes, this was stated : PC combat largely unchanged, console combat changed to better suit the
controller


http://social.biowar...index/3064634/1 

^ Read this thread and see how wrong you are, as worried as i am for DA2, NOWHERE was it stated they are scrapping RPG elements for the sake of action in DA2.

Get your facts straight, do you have any idea what "turn based fighting" is? The answer is : no, you don't seeing that DAO is REAL time fighting, you want to know whats turn based, go look at Final Fantasy X combat system



You are truly a sad and pathetic liar.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

They implement these features to draw in a larger fan base. But while they increase the presence of Shooter/ Action-Adventure elements, they decrease the RPG elements to appease the new fan base that they are targeting.

 -Polite

See the above.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 19 juillet 2010 - 05:19 .


#129
Chris_Really_Rocks

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I don't see how multiplayer would detract from the game. Bioware has made some great multiplayer RPGs -- NWN (which had sucky single player in the OC but the MP was fun in modules made for it -- also HotU was much better than OC).



Also, I disagree that the RPG elements were "dumbed down". I'd agree they were "reduced" but they couldn't be "dumbed" down because it didn't take much intelligence or effort to manage these aspects in ME1. It was easy to do! It was just annoying! It's not like ME1 was an RPG game where the inventory management and the stat management was interesting and challenging.



I fail to see how MP would prejudice the game's RP elements.

#130
catabuca

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It might be prudent to post this from the DA2 forums:

David Gaider wrote ...

My fear is that the gaming industry (including BioWare at this point, I'm sad to say) is moving with the rest of the entertainment industry into trying to find this "mythical" mainstream audience. All this does is make mish-mashes of genres and mediocre products that large numbers can go "eh, it was alright" about.

Bottom line, it makes finanacial sense - better to have 2/3rds of the game consumers buying and forgetting your game in a couple months than 1/3rd of the game consumers buying and loving your game to death.


Maybe.

I'd suggest maybe taking a look here: www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/publishers-note/7688-Publisher-Note-10-E-for-Everyone-Except-Me



It's not a bad article, in terms of explaining some of the realities we face. I don't think it's the entire reason these choices were made, as DAO was quite successful on its own, but it certainly addresses the idea you're expressing.



#131
SithLordExarKun

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Chris_Really_Rocks wrote...

! It was just annoying! It's not like ME1 was an RPG game where the inventory management and the stat management was interesting and challenging.

In my personal opinion, ME1, while being a great game, is a terrible RPG. Probably the worst one i have played so far.

#132
SithLordExarKun

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catabuca wrote...

It might be prudent to post this from the DA2 forums:

David Gaider wrote ...

My fear is that the gaming industry (including BioWare at this point, I'm sad to say) is moving with the rest of the entertainment industry into trying to find this "mythical" mainstream audience. All this does is make mish-mashes of genres and mediocre products that large numbers can go "eh, it was alright" about.
Bottom line, it makes finanacial sense - better to have 2/3rds of the game consumers buying and forgetting your game in a couple months than 1/3rd of the game consumers buying and loving your game to death.

Maybe.
I'd suggest maybe taking a look here: www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/publishers-note/7688-Publisher-Note-10-E-for-Everyone-Except-Me

It's not a bad article, in terms of explaining some of the realities we face. I don't think it's the entire reason these choices were made, as DAO was quite successful on its own, but it certainly addresses the idea you're expressing.

That was biowares decision, not EA.

#133
Mx_CN3

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Chris_Really_Rocks wrote...

I don't see how multiplayer would detract from the game. Bioware has made some great multiplayer RPGs -- NWN (which had sucky single player in the OC but the MP was fun in modules made for it -- also HotU was much better than OC).

Apparently the fears are that this'll be what happens in ME (a lackluster SP but great MP).  I can understand those completely, and it'd be a major downer if that is what happened.  But I think BioWare is intelligent enough to not let that happen.

#134
Mx_CN3

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SithLordExarKun wrote...
[lots of replies to Polite]

Take it easy man, you don't want to get suspended!  What do you think would be the best multiplayer route?  Do you think they could incorporate a second (or third) player into dialogue?

#135
catabuca

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SithLordExarKun wrote...

catabuca wrote...

It might be prudent to post this from the DA2 forums:

David Gaider wrote ...

My fear is that the gaming industry (including BioWare at this point, I'm sad to say) is moving with the rest of the entertainment industry into trying to find this "mythical" mainstream audience. All this does is make mish-mashes of genres and mediocre products that large numbers can go "eh, it was alright" about.
Bottom line, it makes finanacial sense - better to have 2/3rds of the game consumers buying and forgetting your game in a couple months than 1/3rd of the game consumers buying and loving your game to death.

Maybe.
I'd suggest maybe taking a look here: www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/publishers-note/7688-Publisher-Note-10-E-for-Everyone-Except-Me

It's not a bad article, in terms of explaining some of the realities we face. I don't think it's the entire reason these choices were made, as DAO was quite successful on its own, but it certainly addresses the idea you're expressing.

That was biowares decision, not EA.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I don't believe I've said anything was EA's idea over BW's idea. I don't really care who makes which decision, I just care about the impact on the game I play. The reason I posted this is because 'chasing the mainstream market' is an argument that crops up in many threads as to possible reasons why the ME franchise is taking the direction it is. I thought it would be good to provide a direct quote from someone who works for Bioware on the subject, that's all.

#136
Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams

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ME3 will be too far in development at this time to start multiplayer development unless it's a henchman type deal where players 2 and 3 are just the PC's squadmates and do not have dialogue choices or anything. I could find this pretty enjoyable. Most likely, they want multiplayer programmers for a new ME title after the trilogy is completed (an MMO is a possibility but not the only one).

#137
MTN Dew Fanatic

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As long as they don't go all Bioshock 2 with, but instead of downgraded multiplayer and good singeplayer and make the other way around.

#138
SithLordExarKun

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Mx_CN3 wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...
[lots of replies to Polite]

Take it easy man, you don't want to get suspended!  What do you think would be the best multiplayer route?  Do you think they could incorporate a second (or third) player into dialogue?

That depends honestly as i am not sure how are they going to pull this off unless its an entirely seperate game. Personally, i have never played TPS online multiplayer with other people but if bioware wants to make an ME multiplayer game, i just think they should do something large scale, kind of like Bad company 2 with vehicles, large landscapes, tactical teamwork etc etc and not the boring pew pew pew you get in those now dead COD games.


catabuca wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

catabuca
wrote...

It might be prudent to post this from the DA2 forums:

David
Gaider wrote ...

My fear is that the gaming industry (including
BioWare at this point, I'm sad to say) is moving with the rest of the
entertainment industry into trying to find this "mythical" mainstream
audience. All this does is make mish-mashes of genres and mediocre
products that large numbers can go "eh, it was alright" about.
Bottom
line, it makes finanacial sense - better to have 2/3rds of the game
consumers buying and forgetting your game in a couple months than 1/3rd
of the game consumers buying and loving your game to death.

Maybe.
I'd
suggest maybe taking a look here:
www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/publishers-note/7688-Publisher-Note-10-E-for-Everyone-Except-Me

It's
not a bad article, in terms of explaining some of the realities we
face. I don't think it's the entire reason these choices were made, as
DAO was quite successful on its own, but it certainly addresses the idea
you're expressing.

That was biowares decision, not
EA.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I don't
believe I've said anything was EA's idea over BW's idea. I don't really
care who makes which decision, I just care about the impact on the game I
play. The reason I posted this is because 'chasing the mainstream
market' is an argument that crops up in many threads as to possible
reasons why the ME franchise is taking the direction it is. I thought it
would be good to provide a direct quote from someone who works for
Bioware on the subject, that's all.

That reply was meant
to all the other people making conspiracies.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 19 juillet 2010 - 06:05 .


#139
BomimoDK

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Am i the only one WHO sees over the top volatile amounts of crying Wolf with little reason or exagerated statements behind it? This place has gone over board and insane, bioware needs to clean up. I find the failure at being realists frightening. People are ruining this place with vaguely founded panic attacks.

#140
Mx_CN3

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BomimoDK wrote...

Am i the only one WHO sees over the top volatile amounts of crying Wolf with little reason or exagerated statements behind it? This place has gone over board and insane, bioware needs to clean up. I find the failure at being realists frightening. People are ruining this place with vaguely founded panic attacks.

Read page 3.

And what are your opinions of the best way to incorporate multiplayer?  What system would you design that is fun for all parties but keeps with the ME spirit?

#141
Mx_CN3

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SithLordExarKun wrote...

Mx_CN3 wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...
[lots of replies to Polite]

Take it easy man, you don't want to get suspended!  What do you think would be the best multiplayer route?  Do you think they could incorporate a second (or third) player into dialogue?

That depends honestly as i am not sure how are they going to pull this off unless its an entirely seperate game. Personally, i have never played TPS online multiplayer with other people but if bioware wants to make an ME multiplayer game, i just think they should do something large scale, kind of like Bad company 2 with vehicles, large landscapes, tactical teamwork etc etc and not the boring pew pew pew you get in those now dead COD games.

You gave me an interesting idea.  What if, instead of having a MP focused on Shepard, we got to play alliance personel, say Ashley/Kaiden or whoever, and played a big battle at the Citadel?  Geth heretics attack space station, planet, whatever, alliance or quarians fight back.  It's a little too much like a shooter to belong in ME3, if you ask me, but it does sound like mad fun.  It could just be a spinoff game similar to Battlefront (but just, how should I put this... way better), in that we get to play soldiers at the major battles in a Reaper invasion, or the First Contact War or something like that.

Plus EA did Battlefield so they certainly know what they're doing in that department.

#142
Shotokanguy

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I need to come up with a name for the people that talk like the first post. There's enough of these arrogant, stupid, whining worriers to put them in a group.



Anyone want to help?

#143
gunnerkite1985

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Look... firstly most of this is pure speculation, we only know they wanted to hire a programmer with MP experience for A mass effect game, which may not even be ME3, could be a new 360/PC game or a handheld/iphone game to co-inside with the release of ME3 (such as ME:galaxy for the iphone).



I for one do NOT want any type of MP element in ME3, other games are a different matter but keep ME3 as the other two games in the trilogy were, as a story driven SP RPG game.



However, after playing ME and DA:O I have faith in Bioware, whatever choice they make, to produce a brilliant final act to the trilogy, so no I will not boycott ME3 or DA2 for that matter, I'll even pay extra for the collectors edition.

#144
Jackal904

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If ME3 has multiplayer, I will be a very, very, very sad panda. And I'll be pissed.



Multiplayer in ME3 will fail miserably. 2k tried to do it with Bioshock and that failed miserably. Not every game needs multiplayer, especially a game with such an incredible single player experience like Mass Effect. I hope and pray that BioWare does not add multiplayer to ME3.

#145
Mx_CN3

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Shotokanguy wrote...

I need to come up with a name for the people that talk like the first post. There's enough of these arrogant, stupid, whining worriers to put them in a group.

Anyone want to help?

Dungeon-Master-That-Nobody-Liked?  Also, mods are watching this thread, so start talking about multiplayer!  Brainstorm ideas!  Read a few posts above and add your own opinions.

Jackal904 wrote...

If ME3 has multiplayer, I will be a
very, very, very sad panda. And I'll be pissed.

Multiplayer in
ME3 will fail miserably. 2k tried to do it with Bioshock and that failed
miserably. Not every game needs multiplayer, especially a game with
such an incredible single player experience like Mass Effect. I hope and
pray that BioWare does not add multiplayer to ME3.

Why do you so ardently believe that BioWare will fail just because 2k did?

gunnerkite1985 wrote...

Look... firstly most of this is
pure speculation, we only know they wanted to hire a programmer with MP
experience for A mass effect game, which may not even be ME3, could be a
new 360/PC game or a handheld/iphone game to co-inside with the release
of ME3 (such as ME:galaxy for the iphone).

I for one do NOT
want any type of MP element in ME3, other games are a different matter
but keep ME3 as the other two games in the trilogy were, as a story
driven SP RPG game.

However, after playing ME and DA:O I have
faith in Bioware, whatever choice they make, to produce a brilliant
final act to the trilogy, so no I will not boycott ME3 or DA2 for that
matter, I'll even pay extra for the collectors edition.

Why can't all the people that don't want multiplayer be as reasonable as you?

Modifié par Mx_CN3, 19 juillet 2010 - 06:34 .


#146
Gorn Kregore

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Cris Shepard wrote...

Im with ya brother.. RPG > mindless shooter


but mass effect IS a shooter wow ur so remtraded

#147
Shotokanguy

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I don't think multiplayer will work. The only thing people are thinking of is Co-op, right?



That would make the game a bit easy. And no one would want to play as anyone other than Shepard anyway...and Shepard should be the most powerful of the 3.



And I don't really want time spent developing multiplayer to hurt the main game. I want them to pull no punches for Mass Effect 3.



That said, I won't "boycott BioWare" or go on an internet forum to rant about how the inferior Halo fanboys are ruining my sophisticated RPG.

#148
havoc373

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I have no problem with a multiplayer as long as it is held up to the same standards as the singleplayer portion of the game. and even if the multiplayer sucks, i play mass effect for the single player experience. as long as that remains awesome they can screw up the multiplayer all they like.



i wont boycott a game company because they made a game that i dont agree with. hell if i did that i wouldnt be buying anything from EA, Activision or ubisoft. thats just stupid.

#149
cachx

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Mx_CN3 wrote...
And what are your opinions of the best way to incorporate multiplayer?  What system would you design that is fun for all parties but keeps with the ME spirit?


(in an effort to keep the thread civil...)

I can think 2 ways:

One way could be just making avaliable for other people to join during missions, controlling one of the squadmates (of course, the main player will need to have total control on who gets to play with him or if they choose to turn off this feature).
The problem with this is that the "combat pausing" feature will probably have to go, wich will anger the RPG player that is not used to action and pauses every 3 seconds. (I used to do that, but since a few playthroughs ago I don't need to pause anymore, and that's when I found the new beauty of simplicity -not dumbing down-).

The other, more reasonable way would be a separate multiplayer mode, ala Uncharted 2. We could play as our individual Shepards, or make our own Turian/Krogan/Salarian/whatever. I don't see a problem with this aproach, excepting that people that have a problem with single-player mode will automatically blame multiplayer for it without any basis for it.

#150
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Jackal904 wrote...

If ME3 has multiplayer, I will be a very, very, very sad panda. And I'll be pissed.

Multiplayer in ME3 will fail miserably. 2k tried to do it with Bioshock and that failed miserably. Not every game needs multiplayer, especially a game with such an incredible single player experience like Mass Effect. I hope and pray that BioWare does not add multiplayer to ME3.