369 réponses à ce sujet

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

I bet the guy being beat did worse things to his victims. This topic reminds of this article of misguided causes.

[Spornicus]

It's very simple: if my Shepard is paragon, I stop the guard, and if my Shepard is renegade, I tell the guard the prisoner deserves worse.

[Nightwriter]

inversevideo wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

thq95 wrote...

Yeah, I let him get beat, just think if it was a guy like that serial killer that gets loose...

The first time through, when I told the guard to lay off him, I thought he was that serial killer who gets loose and sends you the email.

I thought this was another Elnora type paragon-decision-biting-you-in-the-ass things.

Actually, he is the serial killer guy.

When you speak, to the prisoner, next to the one who was beaten, and you ask if he knows anything, the prisoner you ask replies something like .. "naw, that's Billy, he don't know 'nothin', warden is pissed that he offed someone who was valuable'.

When you get back, to the Normandy, you get an email from Billy, that is untraceable (not sure what kind of communication security Cerberus uses that a serial killer can get your address, or maybe Billy has 'skilz').
'Billy' brags about 'doing' some folks, and threatens to come after you, at some point.  So I guess you will see 'Billy' again in ME3.  Maybe he will be a recruit? Or maybe you will just rid the galaxy of him.

In any event, it is not exactly the same, as the Elnora situation. Elnora reached behind her back, for a gun, so I kacked her. But even if you chose to let Elnora go, you had a choice.

With Billy, you had no choice to stop him. So his actions are not on you.

No, the man who is getting beaten is named Bimmy. The guy says, "Naw, that's Bimmy."

Bimmy and Billy are pretty close, but they're not the same.

When I first thought it was the same person, I went back and let him get beaten just to see what happened.

You still get the email.

[inversevideo]

Nightwriter wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

thq95 wrote...

Yeah, I let him get beat, just think if it was a guy like that serial killer that gets loose...

The first time through, when I told the guard to lay off him, I thought he was that serial killer who gets loose and sends you the email.

I thought this was another Elnora type paragon-decision-biting-you-in-the-ass things.

Actually, he is the serial killer guy.

When you speak, to the prisoner, next to the one who was beaten, and you ask if he knows anything, the prisoner you ask replies something like .. "naw, that's Billy, he don't know 'nothin', warden is pissed that he offed someone who was valuable'.

When you get back, to the Normandy, you get an email from Billy, that is untraceable (not sure what kind of communication security Cerberus uses that a serial killer can get your address, or maybe Billy has 'skilz').
'Billy' brags about 'doing' some folks, and threatens to come after you, at some point.  So I guess you will see 'Billy' again in ME3.  Maybe he will be a recruit? Or maybe you will just rid the galaxy of him.

In any event, it is not exactly the same, as the Elnora situation. Elnora reached behind her back, for a gun, so I kacked her. But even if you chose to let Elnora go, you had a choice.

With Billy, you had no choice to stop him. So his actions are not on you.

No, the man who is getting beaten is named Bimmy. The guy says, "Naw, that's Bimmy."

Bimmy and Billy are pretty close, but they're not the same.

When I first thought it was the same person, I went back and let him get beaten just to see what happened.

You still get the email.

Bimmy? BIMMY?! 

Well there you have it. What kind of name is Bimmy?

Imagine the teasing and poundings poor little Bimmy had to endure, growing up.

It is no wonder that he went a little bonkers and took out his school chums.

What were his parents thinking?

[Nightwriter]

He probably shortened it from something much worse. Like Bimwald. Or Bimworth. Bimmington.

[angj57]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

I bet the guy being beat did worse things to his victims. This topic reminds of this article of misguided causes.

I don't know of any philosophy or relgion that supports such moral relativity. "I can do whatever I want to someone, as long as I think they have done something worse to someone else" isn't a moral code that would produce a productive society that would be worth living in.

Besides, the Purgatory picks up prisoners from different species on worlds all across the galaxy. Do you seriously think none of these worlds could have imperfect justice systems that would either convict an innocent man accidently or sentance polically undesirable people and claim they committed violent crimes? 

[Nightwriter]

angj57 wrote...

Besides, the Purgatory picks up prisoners from different species on worlds all across the galaxy. Do you seriously think none of these worlds could have imperfect justice systems that would either convict an innocent man accidently or sentance polically undesirable people and claim they committed violent crimes? 

But why, exactly, would corrupt worlds with imperfect justice systems pay an arm and a leg to keep a prisoner on Purgatory indefinitely? If they are corrupt imperfect justice systems, they would kill the prisoner. Or space him.

In cases of innocent prisoners being put there by corrupt political leaders, there are always far, far cheaper ways to dispose of the prisoner. Frame him, have him put to death by his own people, lock him away on the home planet.

In fact, the only worlds I could see actually paying Kuril these ridiculous prices are innocent worlds with justice systems not capable of housing the prisoner. Those would be the only worlds I could see being vulnerable to Kuril's blackmailing.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

angj57 wrote...

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

I bet the guy being beat did worse things to his victims. This topic reminds of this article of misguided causes.

I don't know of any philosophy or relgion that supports such moral relativity. "I can do whatever I want to someone, as long as I think they have done something worse to someone else" isn't a moral code that would produce a productive society that would be worth living in.

Besides, the Purgatory picks up prisoners from different species on worlds all across the galaxy. Do you seriously think none of these worlds could have imperfect justice systems that would either convict an innocent man accidently or sentance polically undesirable people and claim they committed violent crimes? 

Try the code of Hammurabi, a great Babylonian King.

[angj57]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

angj57 wrote...

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

I bet the guy being beat did worse things to his victims. This topic reminds of this article of misguided causes.

I don't know of any philosophy or relgion that supports such moral relativity. "I can do whatever I want to someone, as long as I think they have done something worse to someone else" isn't a moral code that would produce a productive society that would be worth living in.

Besides, the Purgatory picks up prisoners from different species on worlds all across the galaxy. Do you seriously think none of these worlds could have imperfect justice systems that would either convict an innocent man accidently or sentance polically undesirable people and claim they committed violent crimes? 

Try the code of Hammurabi, a great Babylonian King.

Umm.. the code of Hammurabi, or any other legal system for that matter, sets out a way for society to objectively deal with crimes committed against it. I was hardly saying that there shouldn't be laws or even that there shouldn't be capital punishment (I don't want to go there). I was saying that one man, even if he is a prison guard, has no right to unilaterally decide how to punish another man, even if he thinks "that guy has done some really bad stuff." The Code of Hammurabi actually represents this ideal perfectly-- the decision to inflict punishment on a human being should rest with society as a whole and not with individual people.

To put it even more clearly: Should a murderer be punished by society objectively, after establishing his guilt, in a way that is porportional to his crimes and equal to the punishment awarded to similar murderers? Obviously,

Should a murderer be given additional punished according to the whims of one individual prison guard? Nope.

Modifié par angj57, 29 juillet 2010 - 01:55 .

[mcsupersport]

I always stop him,



Take Zaeed on the mission and listen to his response to the beating, and it pretty much parallels mine.



Just because he is a bad person doesn't mean you should become one as well. In the case of a prisoner being beaten for no reason the person doing the beating becomes the same as what he is beating.

[Inthatplace]

no

[angj57]

mcsupersport wrote...

Take Zaeed on the mission and listen to his response to the beating, and it pretty much parallels mine.

Just because he is a bad person doesn't mean you should become one as well. In the case of a prisoner being beaten for no reason the person doing the beating becomes the same as what he is beating.

That struck me as a writing error, considering the first time we see Zaeed, he is beating the s**t out of an unarmed prisoner.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Yes, because I think the option "That's Justice" sounds kinda darkly funny.

[Kaiser Shepard]

angj57 wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...

Take Zaeed on the mission and listen to his response to the beating, and it pretty much parallels mine.

Just because he is a bad person doesn't mean you should become one as well. In the case of a prisoner being beaten for no reason the person doing the beating becomes the same as what he is beating.

That struck me as a writing error, considering the first time we see Zaeed, he is beating the s**t out of an unarmed prisoner.

Softening someone up isn't the same as torture.

[Valtauran]

I tend to play Shepard as if i was him, doing evil things or seeing them done to people, i just have to stop it or prevent it.



I am a nice guy that always goes good side in all games that have a morality system.



In Kotor, it really made me cry when i had to kill Mission, i quite liked her personality...thats when i stopped playing bad guys.



Good guys all the way for me.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

I can't believe how many people are like: "That man may have done nothing wrong!" or "He dosen't deserve it even if he killed and raped 137 people!"

Modifié par MTN Dew Fanatic, 13 août 2010 - 01:27 .

[jbblue05]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

I can't believe how many people are like: "That man may have done nothing wrong!" or "He dosen't deserve it even if he killed and raped 137 people!"

 I was thinking the same thing

These people tortured innocents  FOR FUN.  The guards are tickling them on the flag pole compared to what the prisoners do to their victims

I wish their was an option for Shep to show the guard how its done:whistle: 

[Digifi]

I go with Shep's paragon response "for your own sake, stop this". Even if the guy deserves to be beaten, it begins to corrupt the guard. That's why on some firing squads they used to put blanks in all but one or two of the guns so the shooters had plausible deniability that they shot an unarmed person and would feel less remorse.

[Giggles_Manically]

Why in the nine hells should I stop a prison beating, when I am not a guard or an offical.

Once the guard explained what was up, I left.

[Nightwriter]

My thread came back from the dead. How exactly does that happen? Are people perusing pages 3 - 87 of these forums?



Anyway, I don't think these guards need to worry about feeling any remorse for beating these prisoners.

[Zaxares]

I find it interesting that NONE of your squadmates, even the Renegade ones like Zaeed and Grunt, approve of the beating. Although it's possible that Grunt simply sees no fun in beating an opponent that can't even offer a challenge.



In any case, I usually pick whatever path my Shepard is following at the time, since I don't have enough information to go on. According to the guards, the man is a horrible crimial who committed atrocities on his victims. According to the prisoner next door, the beating is because Bimmy killed a valuable prisoner of the Warden. But did that event trigger the beating? Or would the beating have happened regardless? And what if the killing had been a mercy killing? A prisoner who simply couldn't take life in Purgatory anymore and wanted it to end, one way or another?



In any event, my Paragons stop the beating, Renegades allow it to continue. Chances are the guy gets killed once the chaos breaks out anyway...

[IoCaster]

I usually just walk along and mind my own damn business. The only time I bother interfering is when I'm doing a pure paragon run.

[Nightwriter]

Zaxares wrote...

In any case, I usually pick whatever path my Shepard is following at the time, since I don't have enough information to go on. According to the guards, the man is a horrible crimial who committed atrocities on his victims. According to the prisoner next door, the beating is because Bimmy killed a valuable prisoner of the Warden. But did that event trigger the beating? Or would the beating have happened regardless? And what if the killing had been a mercy killing? A prisoner who simply couldn't take life in Purgatory anymore and wanted it to end, one way or another?

I think we can be sure that event triggered the beating - I cannot see Kuril damaging his goods unless it was for a good reason.

We can also probably be sure Bimmy would've done something to earn a beating regardless.

As for Bimmy killing the guy as a way of committing suicide, do you think Kuril would kill anyone he could make money off of? 

[PTPR]

Basically it's an eye for an eye arguement. The man hurt someone  so it gives you the right to hurt him. In the end you're putting yourself at his level. He ends up no better, while you end up worse.

Prisons weren't made to punish people so much as they were made to protect the innocent public.
So yes, I always stop it.

And it may be none of my business, but that's like saying someone on the street being mugged is none of my business.
/my 2 cents