369 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

The beating should be stopped because it's achieving nothing other than the degradation of the guards. That does matter. That prisoner can do no more damage to the world; the guards can.

They're Blue Suns, exactly how wonderful do you think they are? Consider that this is an organization that seems to regularly betray its clients.

I think you're all just trying to justify even caring about this because the game gave you the option and you are all mindless upper-left-blue zombies.

Rofl, just like you're a bottom-right-red zombie? As if any of us couldn't have predicted your response to this topic in a fraction of a second.

Anyway.

Just because someone's in a mercenary gang doesn't automatically make them a monster whose soul cannot be stained any further. You meet all kinds of mercs in this game, and not all of them are outright evil. Most of the time they're just working for the wrong people.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

So I'm on a mission to save all the human colonies in the Terminus systems from being abducted and I should care if a complete scumbag is getting the s*** kicked out of him? When I saw it happening my emotions were unmoved and I thought exactly what RenShep says.

[Whailor]

Meh, who cares. Criminal doesn't care about others when doing the crime, at least some payback is in order. And later should be just shot. Or thrown into space. Never saw the reason why to keep criminals in jails where their victims have to keep them fed, clothed, in good health and what not. And then they even dare to quip about "human rights"? Were they thinking about those rights when they were beating or killing their victims? No. And now they're unhappy to be on the receiving end? Most of them get back into the prison for another crime shortly after their release and the dang thing just repeats itself. So no, let them get what they deserve.



Though, sometimes when I feel benevolent I flip a coin and see what pops up and then make the choice. Just for giggles.

[wizardryforever]

Nightwriter wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

The beating should be stopped because it's achieving nothing other than the degradation of the guards. That does matter. That prisoner can do no more damage to the world; the guards can.

They're Blue Suns, exactly how wonderful do you think they are? Consider that this is an organization that seems to regularly betray its clients.

I think you're all just trying to justify even caring about this because the game gave you the option and you are all mindless upper-left-blue zombies.

Rofl, just like you're a bottom-right-red zombie? As if any of us couldn't have predicted your response to this topic in a fraction of a second.

Anyway.

Just because someone's in a mercenary gang doesn't automatically make them a monster whose soul cannot be stained any further. You meet all kinds of mercs in this game, and not all of them are outright evil. Most of the time they're just working for the wrong people.

^This

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Whailor wrote...

Though, sometimes when I feel benevolent I flip a coin and see what pops up and then make the choice. Just for giggles.

Call it.

[MaaZeus]

I stop him no matter what Shepard. Such beating is pointless and braindead anyway, unless there is something very deep and personal involved I dont see it getting you any good, satisfaction or anything.

[SteelerWayne]

If I'm a paragon, I stop them. As a renegade, I used to let the beating continue until I found out the renegade response to make them stop and just went with that.

[Il Divo]

Really depends. I would say the prisoner deserves it, but considering how the Warden behaves I have no way of telling whether all his prisoners are true criminals or just unlucky fellows in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[thegreateski]

Nightwriter wrote...
Just because someone's in a mercenary gang doesn't automatically make them a monster whose soul cannot be stained any further. You meet all kinds of mercs in this game, and not all of them are outright evil. Most of the time they're just working for the wrong people.

The Eclipse mercs have to murder somebody before they're let into the gang mercenary company.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

"Whatever he did, he probably deserves worse."

Shandepared wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Why, Shand?

****s and giggles?

I don't see any reason to get all emotional about a guard beating on a menace to society. He's getting what he deserves.

Shandepared wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Basic human decency not enough for you?

Rights belonging to all sentient beings?

How about the fact that they are aliens beating on a human?

To be in that prison in the first place he must have done something pretty bad.

I reserve my sympathy for people who actually deserve it.

 

Modifié par MTN Dew Fanatic, 19 juillet 2010 - 06:55 .

[Nightwriter]

thegreateski wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Just because someone's in a mercenary gang doesn't automatically make them a monster whose soul cannot be stained any further. You meet all kinds of mercs in this game, and not all of them are outright evil. Most of the time they're just working for the wrong people.

The Eclipse mercs have to murder somebody before they're let into the gang mercenary company.

Who? When? Why? Do you know the context of each murder? No.

Even a murder cannot classify a person as an irredeemable monster. Any one of your crew have done things they regret, any one of them have killed, sometimes quite unjustly. A person who has made mistakes is not necessarily a demon.

Bad as these mercs may be, they could get worse. Much worse. And we have proof that they do get worse, if they beat prisoners regularly. This is why the beatings must stop.

[didymos1120]

Does anyone know, specifically, what the guy was sent to Purgatory for?  Who sent him there?  Did he actually do whatever it was he was supposed to have done?  Why do all the "let the him have it" people apparently assume that his mere presence on Purgatory is conclusive proof that he deserves to be there? 

What we really have is an unknown guy convicted of an unknown crime (or unknown crimes) on the basis of unknown evidence on an unknown world using an unknown criminal justice system who is incarcerated in a manifestly corrupt prison staffed by mercenary thugs and run by a total bastard who really ought to be in one of his own cells.  Even if you think certain crimes justify such treatment, there's no way to know that this guy is among the deserving.  It's not even known if he really did kill the guy in the showers. And, if he did kill the guy, you have absolutely no knowledge of why he did it  (you can make a decent guess on that last one though:  given what Prisoner 780 has to say about the showers, it's likely someone was looking to forcibly acquire his "pride". Or they'd acquired it one too many times already).

So yeah, I stop it:

a. My total lack of knowledge about the guy makes it impossible to know he even belongs there.  The usefulness or righteousness of corporal punishment doesn't even need to be considered.
b.  I don't particularly need mercs who've acquired a taste for mercilessly beating defenseless people for highly dubious reasons running around my galaxy.  Like I trust them to only beat the truly "deserving" once they've left Purgatory for other duty assignments?  Please.  That's not even why they were beating that guy.
c.  The "justification" offered for the beating p!sses me off.  F*ck Kuril.  Slave-trading, greedy hypocrites should not be indulged, and you don't need to wait for him to order you into that cell to make that character assessment.

[didymos1120]

Shandepared wrote...
I think you're all just trying to justify even caring about this because the game gave you the option and you are all mindless upper-left-blue zombies.

So, I take it that, what with the lack of caring, you didn't give it a moment's thought and just mindlessly selected the lower-right response, right?  And likely that was only because there wasn't a "Can I have a turn?" option in a lovely red on the lower-left.

Modifié par didymos1120, 19 juillet 2010 - 07:07 .

[didymos1120]

thegreateski wrote...

The Eclipse mercs have to murder somebody before they're let into the gang mercenary company.

Actually, as far as we know, it was just that particular Eclipse chapter on Ilium that had that rule. 

[thegreateski]

didymos1120 wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

The Eclipse mercs have to murder somebody before they're let into the gang mercenary company.

Actually, as far as we know, it was just that particular Eclipse chapter on Ilium that had that rule. 

Then that particular chapter of eclipse mercs in full of monsters.

[mrmike_1949]

Nightwriter wrote...

Just curious.

On Purgatory, where you walk by and see the guards putting the stomp on the cellmate. Do you stop them?

Haven't got there yet. Is it possible to join in ??

[thegreateski]

Nightwriter wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Just because someone's in a mercenary gang doesn't automatically make them a monster whose soul cannot be stained any further. You meet all kinds of mercs in this game, and not all of them are outright evil. Most of the time they're just working for the wrong people.

The Eclipse mercs have to murder somebody before they're let into the gang mercenary company.

Who? When? Why? Do you know the context of each murder? No.

Even a murder cannot classify a person as an irredeemable monster. Any one of your crew have done things they regret, any one of them have killed, sometimes quite unjustly. A person who has made mistakes is not necessarily a demon.

Bad as these mercs may be, they could get worse. Much worse. And we have proof that they do get worse, if they beat prisoners regularly. This is why the beatings must stop.

Those mercs massacred an entire skyscraper full of people because their boss ordered them to.

[Nightwriter]

thegreateski wrote...

Those mercs massacred an entire skyscraper full of people because their boss ordered them to.

Exactly. Do you really want to make them meaner?

Actually Eclipse is a complicated organization. It was due to them that slavery in an entire system was abolished. And the Eclipse mercs on Miranda's loyalty mission actually seemed to think they were doing the right thing. I was surprised. Before I killed them, I mean.

Fact is, these guards are getting worse the more they beat this prisoner. Worse means more dangerous. You're making meaner, more dangerous men. Not cool.

[Il Divo]

Nightwriter wrote...
Fact is, these guards are getting worse the more they beat this prisoner. Worse means more dangerous. You're making meaner, more dangerous men. Not cool.

To be fair though, it's like cutting off the head of a hydra; stopping one particular injustice doesn't change the mercs for the better and doesn't say they won't behave the same way in the future.

[Nightwriter]

didymos1120 wrote...

Does anyone know, specifically, what the guy was sent to Purgatory for?  Who sent him there?  Did he actually do whatever it was he was supposed to have done?  Why do all the "let the him have it" people apparently assume that his mere presence on Purgatory is conclusive proof that he deserves to be there? 

What we really have is an unknown guy convicted of an unknown crime (or unknown crimes) on the basis of unknown evidence on an unknown world using an unknown criminal justice system who is incarcerated in a manifestly corrupt prison staffed by mercenary thugs and run by a total bastard who really ought to be in one of his own cells.  Even if you think certain crimes justify such treatment, there's no way to know that this guy is among the deserving.  It's not even known if he really did kill the guy in the showers. And, if he did kill the guy, you have absolutely no knowledge of why he did it  (you can make a decent guess on that last one though:  given what Prisoner 780 has to say about the showers, it's likely someone was looking to forcibly acquire his "pride". Or they'd acquired it one too many times already).

So yeah, I stop it:

a. My total lack of knowledge about the guy makes it impossible to know he even belongs there.  The usefulness or righteousness of corporal punishment doesn't even need to be considered.
b.  I don't particularly need mercs who've acquired a taste for mercilessly beating defenseless people for highly dubious reasons running around my galaxy.  Like I trust them to only beat the truly "deserving" once they've left Purgatory for other duty assignments?  Please.  That's not even why they were beating that guy.
c.  The "justification" offered for the beating p!sses me off.  F*ck Kuril.  Slave-trading, greedy hypocrites should not be indulged, and you don't need to wait for him to order you into that cell to make that character assessment.

While I generally agree, as we've said again and again, the "this is a massage compared to what he did to his victims" comment pretty much cements the certainty of him being a monster.

Combine that with the fact he recently killed a man (which is what he's getting beaten for) and his presence on Purgatory in the first place, and you can safely say the guy deserves it (that doesn't mean it excuses it, but still).

There's really no reason to think this information isn't true. Why else would they beat him? Kuril doesn't like damaged property. Why else would he be in that prison? Just to be clear, these are prisoners whose races don't even want them on the planet. For milder crimes or matters of politics, etc, a prisoner can just be incarcerated on the home planet or killed. It needs to be pretty damn serious if you're willing to pay an arm and a leg to keep this person in Purgatory indefinitely.

[Collider]

I'd agree with you if everyone who has ever been imprisoned has been for the right reasons.

[Nightwriter]

Think about it. If clients don't pay, Warden Kuril responds by threatening to release the prisoner at an unspecified time and location.

Why would this be a threat if the prisoner was not extremely dangerous?

[Fiery Phoenix]

lovgreno wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I stop them. Even with my Renegade chick, at first I chose "This is justice.", then I was like "Oh, that's totally not right", then I reloaded and chose the Paragon option. Prisoner, yes. Did bad things, yes. But he's ultimately human.

Actualy you can convince the guards to stop with renegade options too. Wich makes sense when you think about it.
Beating the prisoners are pointless so I use renegade or paragon dialouge choices to make them go do something usefull instead.

I'm thinking you're referring to the Intimidate option, yes? Well, as far as I know, that one only appears if you originally go with the Paragon option on the right side of the dialog wheel. So it's Paragon, really.