@Night: Yes, that is their standard business model, but Jack mentions they imprisoned her because Cerberus put a bounty on her. So their are different reasons. And i doubt these people got trials.
Do you let the guard keep beating the prisoner?
Débuté par
Nightwriter
, juil. 19 2010 01:03
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#202
Posté 19 juillet 2010 - 08:21
Nightwriter
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Il Divo wrote...
Nightwriter wrote...
Fact is, these guards are getting worse the more they beat this prisoner. Worse means more dangerous. You're making meaner, more dangerous men. Not cool.
To be fair though, it's like cutting off the head of a hydra; stopping one particular injustice doesn't change the mercs for the better and doesn't say they won't behave the same way in the future.
Well, it's like Shepard said: you can't control how people will act, but you can control how you'll respond.
I don't expect to be able to change everything that goes on there. That's impossible. But I can change what I'm able to change when I'm able to change it.
#203
Posté 19 juillet 2010 - 08:30
Nightwriter
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AntiChri5 wrote...
@Night: Yes, that is their standard business model, but Jack mentions they imprisoned her because Cerberus put a bounty on her. So their are different reasons. And i doubt these people got trials.
I never got that. Were they really trying to tell me Cerberus would pay to keep her in there? Never. Way too expensive. They could just kill her, or better, incarcerate her themselves. They have the resources and the facilities.
That said, Jack did a lot to wind up in there. Rampaging a parade with a military vehicle, commandeering a passenger ship and kidnapping the people in it, destroying a space station, killing who knows how many people.
#204
Posté 19 juillet 2010 - 08:31
Il Divo
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Nightwriter wrote...
Il Divo wrote...
Nightwriter wrote...
Fact is, these guards are getting worse the more they beat this prisoner. Worse means more dangerous. You're making meaner, more dangerous men. Not cool.
To be fair though, it's like cutting off the head of a hydra; stopping one particular injustice doesn't change the mercs for the better and doesn't say they won't behave the same way in the future.
Well, it's like Shepard said: you can't control how people will act, but you can control how you'll respond.
I don't expect to be able to change everything that goes on there. That's impossible. But I can change what I'm able to change when I'm able to change it.
This is true, but if the reasoning for stopping the guards is that "they are getting worse the more they beat this prisoner", then we are still on some shaky ground. If the guards don't beat this prisoner, it's the next one or the one after that. Paragon Shepard probably wouldn't care, but it's still important to consider.
#205
Posté 19 juillet 2010 - 08:34
nov_pl
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"It's a massage compared to what he did to his victims"
I bought that, I'm generally a paragon but I believe he deserved that.
I bought that, I'm generally a paragon but I believe he deserved that.
#206
Posté 19 juillet 2010 - 08:41
Nightwriter
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Il Divo wrote...
This is true, but if the reasoning for stopping the guards is that "they are getting worse the more they beat this prisoner", then we are still on some shaky ground. If the guards don't beat this prisoner, it's the next one or the one after that. Paragon Shepard probably wouldn't care, but it's still important to consider.
You might change the perspective of the guard. That's something. Rather than not intervening, which is nothing.
When you paragon persuade him, he'll say, "You know, you might be right. Sometimes I wonder what the point of this is."
#207
Posté 19 juillet 2010 - 11:23
tonnactus
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Really? Elnora killed someone who deserved this anyway.thegreateski wrote...
Then that particular chapter of eclipse mercs in full of monsters.
Modifié par tonnactus, 19 juillet 2010 - 11:23 .
#208
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 12:36
Onyx Jaguar
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No one deserves to die, but sometimes some people have it coming to them
#209
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 02:19
FourSixEight
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Shandepared wrote...
Tin Soldier wrote...
If you're going to allow a severe beating as punishment for a heinous crime don't you think you should find out if the person committed said crime?
You're right, let's drop everything and do a background check on this anonymous prisoner who someone is paying a lot of money to keep locked up here. 'cause you know... I give a ****.
You bleeding hearts ought to be the ones in there.
...Bill O'Reilly? However did you find your way here?
#210
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 02:24
Guest_Shandepared_*
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FourSixEight wrote...
...Bill O'Reilly? However did you find your way here?
I'm lookin' out for you. The Factor goes wherever the pinheads are.
#211
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 02:25
FourSixEight
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Shandepared wrote...
FourSixEight wrote...
...Bill O'Reilly? However did you find your way here?
I'm lookin' out for you. The Factor goes wherever the pinheads are.
Yeah, okay. Considering I'm talking to the person who recommended strapping Veetor into Project Overlord, I'll take that with a grain of salt.
#212
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 02:36
Inquisitor Recon
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FourSixEight wrote...
Yeah, okay. Considering I'm talking to the person who recommended strapping Veetor into Project Overlord, I'll take that with a grain of salt.
Actually, that it is an interesting proposal.
#213
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 02:37
FourSixEight
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Shandepared wrote...
We should have been able to offer up Veetor as a replacement.
hamtyl07 wrote...
come on now, thats not very nice
Shandepared wrote...
Think of it as an opportunity. It is a chance for Cerberus and the quarians to build a working relationship. There is enough hatred and malice in the galaxy arleady. The healing must start somewhere. Plus, Veetor is surely a burden on the fleet what with his handicap...
It sounds like many things, but interesting isn't one of them.
Modifié par FourSixEight, 20 juillet 2010 - 02:38 .
#214
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 02:46
AntiChri5
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Wow, Shand.......
So, are you openly a sociopath?
So, are you openly a sociopath?
#215
Guest_wiggles_*
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 02:48
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Nightwriter wrote...
While I generally agree, as we've said again and again, the "this is a massage compared to what he did to his victims" comment pretty much cements the certainty of him being a monster.
Not necessarily. Consider the following. The prisoner lived on a human colony (he was human, right?) which was run by religious fanatics who consider abortion murder. Abortion is illegal on the planet & the prisoner was a doctor who performed abortions. He was caught by the authorities & since the planet's prisons were already overflowing, was sent to the Purgatory. That covers the "massage compared to what he did to his victims" comment because either a) the guard was told he was a mass murderer or
the guard considers abortion murder, therefore considering the prisoner a monster.Or you could have a situation where the prisoner lived on a planet where the government persecutes certain people. The prisoner was either a) a victim of this persecution or
didn't like the persecution. Because of this he killed 10 government officials involved in the persecution. This is another action that the guard could consider reprehensible.There's the option to execute these people, but I'd say that being sent to the Purgatory is a worse fate than execution. Moreover, the Purgatory doesn't really make sense in the first place since execution is cheaper than paying for them to be imprisoned.
So, no, there's no absolute confirmation that this dude is a monster. He probably is, but that's not good enough to justify the beating.
Combine that with the fact he recently killed a man (which is what he's getting beaten for) and his presence on Purgatory in the first place, and you can safely say the guy deserves it (that doesn't mean it excuses it, but still).
Didn't he shiv a dude in the shower or something? If that's what happened, then that's the type of thing that happens in that sort of prison. If people really have an issue with people getting shived in prison they should change the environment of the prison, not the transgressor. Besides, using the principle of many people who advocate the beating, isn't the dude he shived someone of no moral worth? How can the action be considered to have any moral worth if the agents involved have no moral worth?
#216
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 02:51
thegreateski
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strapping Veetor into Project Overlord
Lol
#217
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 02:53
wulf3n
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wiggles89 wrote...
There's the option to execute these people, but I'd say that being sent to the Purgatory is a worse fate than execution. Moreover, the Purgatory doesn't really make sense in the first place since execution is cheaper than paying for them to be imprisoned.
I don't think that's how Purgatory works. I assumed that either bounty hunters or even blue suns mercs captured these prisoners and are basically blackmailing the respective governments, by saying if you pay us, we won't let them free somewhere on your planet. I don't think governments actually pay to send criminals to Purgatory.
#218
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 04:16
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AntiChri5 wrote...
Wow, Shand.......
So, are you openly a sociopath?
I was trying to extend an olive branch to the quarians, as I said.
#219
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 05:13
didymos1120
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nov_pl wrote...
"It's a massage compared to what he did to his victims"
I bought that, I'm generally a paragon but I believe he deserved that.
Why did you buy it? What makes you think that guard knows anything about the actual events, rather than just what was on the prisoner transfer order or even what he heard from some other guard after being assigned there? Hell, you don't even know what that means. What specifically did this guy supposedly do to his victims? Did he actually do it, or was he just convicted of doing it? Those are not always the same thing. Was he even convicted at all, or simply handed over to the Blue Suns along with the initial payment? You in fact have no idea what he did or did not deserve. All you have is a single sentence spoken by some guy you just met two seconds earlier, and that guy works for the Blue Suns, which is more of an organized crime syndicate than it is a PMC.
#220
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 05:15
didymos1120
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tonnactus wrote...
Really? Elnora killed someone who deserved this anyway.thegreateski wrote...
Then that particular chapter of eclipse mercs in full of monsters.
Oh yeah? And what did that volus do to deserve his murder? Because it's rather unclear to what extent Dakni Kur was aware of his partner's deal with that toxic drug he sold to the Eclipse sisters, and we have zero knowledge of anything else he may have been involved with.
Besides which: Elnora killed him to earn her uniform, and she thought blowing his exosuit open with explosive rounds was great fun. And she couldn't wait to go back home and brag about it to all her friends. So yeah: she gets zero credit for that one. I don't care what the guy did or did not do. He may very well have been a bad, bad man, I don't know. But that chick? She was no damn good. Period.
Modifié par didymos1120, 20 juillet 2010 - 05:16 .
#221
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 05:57
Lunatic LK47
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Spartas Husky wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
g)Give him a quick clean death.AntiChri5 wrote...
Lets take the metaphor as far as we can, Godwin the crap out of your poor little thread, and ask:
If you saw Hitler being beaten up, would you
a) Feel sympathy and intervene.
c) Feel no sympathy but still intervene.
d) Feel no sympathy and do not intervene.
e) Join in.
f) Intervene, but only so you can kidnap Hitler and take him to Israel and charge people ten dollars per kick.
amen
I'll go with H. Do E, and desecrate the corpse.
#222
Guest_wiggles_*
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 06:16
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wulf3n wrote...
I don't think that's how Purgatory works. I assumed that either bounty hunters or even blue suns mercs captured these prisoners and are basically blackmailing the respective governments, by saying if you pay us, we won't let them free somewhere on your planet. I don't think governments actually pay to send criminals to Purgatory.
If memory serves correct the codex mentions that they collect prisoners in a variety of ways, including being given to them by governments. The ME wiki also says they do this.
Why did you buy it? What makes you think that guard knows anything
about the actual events, rather than just what was on the prisoner
transfer order or even what he heard from some other guard after being
assigned there? Hell, you don't even know what that means. What specifically
did this guy supposedly do to his victims? Did he actually do it, or
was he just convicted of doing it? Those are not always the same
thing. Was he even convicted at all, or simply handed over to the Blue
Suns along with the initial payment? You in fact have no idea what
he did or did not deserve. All you have is a single sentence spoken by
some guy you just met two seconds earlier, and that guy works for the
Blue Suns, which is more of an organized crime syndicate than it is a
PMC.
What's interesting about the discussion is how willing some people are to accept everyone in a prison designed for profit are complete monsters despite, y'know, a total lack of evidence.
#223
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 07:53
piemanz
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I'm doing a renegade playthrough at the moment and i let them continue to beat him.My instinct in that situation is always to stop them though.
Sure ,the guy may have commited some heinous crimes but what i see in that situation is a helpless man getting beat on,regardless of his crimes.Does he deserver it? ,probably ,but making him suffer in this way makes the guards no better than him ,and me no better than him for allowing it to continue.
I guess the best comparison i can think of is people who are for the death penalty vs people who are against it.Some beleive if you take a life you don't deserve to live.For me it's more of a moral issue,while he may not deserve to live i can't justify murder as a means of punishment for murder.
Sure ,the guy may have commited some heinous crimes but what i see in that situation is a helpless man getting beat on,regardless of his crimes.Does he deserver it? ,probably ,but making him suffer in this way makes the guards no better than him ,and me no better than him for allowing it to continue.
I guess the best comparison i can think of is people who are for the death penalty vs people who are against it.Some beleive if you take a life you don't deserve to live.For me it's more of a moral issue,while he may not deserve to live i can't justify murder as a means of punishment for murder.
#224
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 07:56
Simpfan
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It depends on how Im playing.
My current Shep is a human sympathizer and reacts very badly to violence towards humans, so she threatened to hurt the guards if they didnt stop.
My current Shep is a human sympathizer and reacts very badly to violence towards humans, so she threatened to hurt the guards if they didnt stop.
#225
Posté 20 juillet 2010 - 08:40
tonnactus
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didymos1120 wrote...
Oh yeah? And what did that volus do to deserve his murder? Because it's rather unclear to what extent Dakni Kur was aware of his partner's deal with that toxic drug he sold to the Eclipse sisters, and we have zero knowledge of anything else he may have been involved with.
Did you really believe he didnt know anything about the deal?
But that chick? She was no damn good. Period.
I never argued she is good. Just that the volus get what he deserved.
